Wrong green shirted German club side.
What is the fuss about assists?
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Xavi, Iniesta made the best barcelona ever, they assisted a bucket of goals and reason why that team was so good and on top of that they had an argentinian midget who wasn’t that bad at all.
I agree with this.
This season Hazard and Maddison lead this stat Hazard has 10 assists, Maddison 4. From a chance generation point of view they are similar, from an assist point of view a world apart.
Assist numbers will even themselves out.
You can make a sideways pass on the half way line and end up getting an assist or put a player through on goal and not get an assist. Over the course of time it all evens out though.
It’s not perfect but it’s one of the half decent stats in the sport.
Key passes are a load of shite though, the way websites like WhoScored and Opta count them is appalling and it can be very misleading.
You can make a sideways pass on the half way line and end up getting an assist or put a player through on goal and not get an assist. Over the course of time it all evens out though.
It’s not perfect but it’s one of the half decent stats in the sport.
Key passes are a load of shite though, the way websites like WhoScored and Opta count them is appalling and it can be very misleading.
He actually was a fantastic player for Bremen really really good.Wrong green shirted German club side.
How is it appalling?
Very well put.
He's actually a pretty terrible example.
"Since he signed for Arsenal in September 2013, he has given the most Premier League assists (50) and created the most big chances (61). He is second only to David Silva in assists from open play (37 to 35).
He is second in most chances created to Christian Eriksen (480 to 478), although the Spurs man has played 29 more matches in that time. In the chances created from open play category, Ozil (353) is second only to Eden Hazard (410)."
https://www.goal.com/en/news/the-bi...at-hes-too-good-for/8s2mq4qazwxu1ie5wjeodqhmk
THIS
If you’re counting only from the point in which he’s been in the league of course the stats will favour him.
Özil assists per season according to transfermarkt.
Madrid
2010/11: 29
2011/12: 28
2012/13: 24
Arsenal
2013/14: 14
2014/15: 9
2015/16: 20
2016/17: 14
2017/18: 14
They did naturally go down after he left. You might disagree as to why but arguing Özil is a terrible example of what he was saying is not really true.
On the face of it with no information an assist tells you that the player was involved in his team scoring a goal. If he's got a bunch of them you know it's not just a fluke and that he's actually doing something in attack. It's also a stat that's often overhyped by fans whilst coaches and managers look more at other factors.
That being said Giggs' record in the PL is amazing.
That being said Giggs' record in the PL is amazing.
Even if you're Darren Bent most of your goals are tap ins.
People dishing out assist numbers but suggesting key passes instead.
What striker has a majority of goals that are NOT tap-ins?
Assists are significant if the player consistently tops the charts like Fabregas amd Pogba or Giggs.
Speaking of Giggs, he really was incredible. Not only assists, but second assists too. Through crosses, through balls, set pieces - he was involved in an infinite amount of goals from the 90s to the 2010s.
He banged his brother's wife so even United fans dont like him and undermine his career. He is one of the greatest British players of the modern era, one of the best players in the history of the champions league and one of the greatest players in the premier league era.
Speaking of Giggs, he really was incredible. Not only assists, but second assists too. Through crosses, through balls, set pieces - he was involved in an infinite amount of goals from the 90s to the 2010s.
He banged his brother's wife so even United fans dont like him and undermine his career. He is one of the greatest British players of the modern era, one of the best players in the history of the champions league and one of the greatest players in the premier league era.
Brilliant!
With a small sample size it doesn’t mean much. However, if a player is registering 10-15 assists a season that tells you something.
I think the criteria for an assist should be changed slightly though. A player making a simple square pass to a teammate who thunders one in from 40 metres shouldn’t really count.
What?
One of the most creative players of his generation who assists by the bucketload for every team he’s ever played for.
Big chances created: https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/players/big_chance_created
Assists: https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/players/goal_assist
Is it really that reliable? According to this Eriksen got 9 assists and 7 big chances created, what constitutes as a big chance?
Key pass isn't all that. Any pass that leads to shot is a key pass. Team with players like Ronaldo will always end up having too many key chances.
Yeah, exactly. I suppose Messi doesn't. But regardless, every striker scores tons of tap ins, some of which anybody could score and others of course require their own quality/movement/instinct. But if we are allowing ourselves to discredit assists which are sometimes simple, the same applies to goalscoring (or any other stat really).
What is the fuss about assists not being fussed about anymore? Say a player dribbles past the whole team, goes around the keeper and lays it off to a team mate for the open goal tap in. Why is only the goalscorer getting statistical credit when the other player made the goal? We should have something like they had back in the good old days, we could call it... assist
What is going on here, I don't get this thread and feel like I'm missing something.
What is going on here, I don't get this thread and feel like I'm missing something.
In grand scheme of things, with larger sample size, it all shows.
You can't have low assists over the years when you keep creating plenty of chances consistently in every games.
At the same time, you can't be a bad player in passing if you consistently show high numbers of assists over the years.
You can't have low assists over the years when you keep creating plenty of chances consistently in every games.
At the same time, you can't be a bad player in passing if you consistently show high numbers of assists over the years.
Exactly. For example any set piece taker, if the attacker heads the ball (not matter how shit the ball was) then it's counter as chance created or key pass. If you have players like Ronaldo or someone else who takes lot of long shots then any pass to them which leads to shot is a chance created or key pass.
It's not very important stat.
IMO, there are rarely "simple" passes.
You just have to look at the number of fails in the last pass. You need and perfectly balanced pass, right speed, right location and in the run (not behind).
Why De Bruyne is so good at that exercice, he understands the flow of players.
For me, the pass to Lukaku from Rashford against Chelsea is a perfect exemple. That was behind Lukaku, he needed to slow down, the ball was too slow and it allowed Tahiti Bob to intercept the ball.
And like others say, you need to check that stat on a long time, on 4-5 seasons.
You just have to look at the number of fails in the last pass. You need and perfectly balanced pass, right speed, right location and in the run (not behind).
Why De Bruyne is so good at that exercice, he understands the flow of players.
For me, the pass to Lukaku from Rashford against Chelsea is a perfect exemple. That was behind Lukaku, he needed to slow down, the ball was too slow and it allowed Tahiti Bob to intercept the ball.
And like others say, you need to check that stat on a long time, on 4-5 seasons.
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First point I agree with. Second point I don't completely agree with. You can create plenty of chances consistently without racking up assists, but then someone else has to have the role of providing those assists. But yeah, you can speculate that a guy like that may not be as valuable as the one who actually gets the assists but that is speculative and many players get credit for being creative players without necessarily putting up numbers of goals and assists.
Third point. I'm going to be a hypothetical smart ass and say that technically you can be a terrible passer and still show high number of assists over the years. What if a guy like Fellaini headed the ball directly down to Hernandez who scores 30 times in a season?
I agree having higher no. of assists doesn't necessarily means player has better range of passing or better vision than others etc. Especially if the player's position is always up front or in final third, the numbers will go bit higher naturally (more chances of fluking it). But as I've mentioned, over a span of say 5-10 years, surely you can't have high no. of assists consistently over years with being just lucky. You can't just fluke it season after season, assists after assists, for many years. You must be doing something right to get all those assists consistently every year.
The more creative players are also the ones who give the 'assist for the assist' so to speak, finding the through ball so a player can cut back into the box etc. As an example deep lying playmakers such as Pirlo, Xavi, Modric, Scholes etc didn't rack up tons of assists, but were still considered to be vital pieces of their teams attacking play.
But he’s never assisted more in a season than he did at his last two seasons at Madrid.What?
One of the most creative players of his generation who assists by the bucketload for every team he’s ever played for.
I suppose the view is, If you whip a perfect ball into the strikers feet and they fluff the chance one on one with the keeper, that's not an assist but it's counted as a big chance created. If you play a five yard pass to a played 40 yards out and they beat a couple of players and smash it in from 25 yards out that's considered an assist. Which is worth more?
Not every stat is useful although you can manipulate the relevant stat and derive meaning from it.. assists generally speaking are one of the ‘good stats’ - as in they’re usually a good indicator of whose the creative force in a team and if someone is being productive in the final third in terms of laying on chances.
Yes context is also important too but there are far worse stats out there than assists. Strange one to pick an argument about.
Yes context is also important too but there are far worse stats out there than assists. Strange one to pick an argument about.
Goals and assist stats are fine to me. It's the stuff like completed dribbles that does my head in. What defines a completed dribble? Do you have to beat your man? Or two men? Does doing it in the oppo's half count extra?
Or the hypothetical goal% or whatever it is we have now. Where for instance, United should have conceded a lot more goals last season if you look at those stats?
Get in yer rowboat and paddle back to the states with your bucket of stats.
Or the hypothetical goal% or whatever it is we have now. Where for instance, United should have conceded a lot more goals last season if you look at those stats?
Get in yer rowboat and paddle back to the states with your bucket of stats.
Expected goals?
Ah yes, that one.
Love how people take xG to decide who should have won the game or which player is playing poorly.
Coming up next - what is the fuss about trophies? they're only metals.
It's beyond stupid. It's as if the part where you actually manage to get the ball in to the net is somehow not really important and down to dumb luck.
I remember when asssists were first discussed it sounded absolutely mental. Like something out of ice hockey. No place in football. Now they’re completely normalised. I’ve a horrible feeling xG will go the same way...
Yeah chance to RVN is not same as chance to Welbeck. For example someone like Nainggolan shooting from just outside the box has higher percentage of scoring that some defender.
Some goals are scored not from “big chances” of even “good chances”, but from difficult positions, so a goal may be without a key pass (but with an assist). Vice versa, a key pass may end up with Lukaku failing to control the ball and doesn’t result even in a shot on goal.