what will happen. They will continue to finish 2nd in the Bundesliga and have key players migrate to Bayern every now and again
What now for Dortmund (and the Bundesliga)?
- Thread starter Wumminator
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Yep. Probably fishing for some alert bobbles on the right top of the screen.
The damage has already been done. They haven't come close to challenging for the Bundesliga since Lewandowski was sold, and Bayern have gone up another level anyway.
They'll stay a solid second due to their transfer astuteness but no better than that unless Bayern decline somewhat.
They'll stay a solid second due to their transfer astuteness but no better than that unless Bayern decline somewhat.
They're always going to struggle to compete with Bayern, their revenue streams are miles apart and Bayern unfortunately for them don't have a bunch of idiots at the top making poor decisions to give them a glimmer of hope.
That said, Dortmund will still be near the top of the league, in the Champions League and one of Europe's better clubs for a while yet. Hummels hasn't had a good season anyway and Ginter will be a more than adequate long-term replacemet. Gundogan has been injured a lot the last few years too, and again they've got ready made replacements, they bought Weigl in the summer and he's been terrific and looks an amazing prospect. If Mkhitaryan leaves - which I doubt he will now this window, but may go for free in the summer - they've just bought another excellent prospect in Dembele.
Gundogan and Hummels will be losses, but Dortmund have always shown an ability to cope with their star players leaving extremely well. Gotze left and they replaced him with Mkhitaryan who's been immensely productive in terms of goals and assists, Lewandowski walked out for nothing yet it's not made a noticeable impact as they brought in Aubameyang the year before who's become one of Europe's top strikers. This is just the way things work with them, I'm sure they'd leave to be able to keep hold of all their best players but the reality is, they're always going to struggle, they know this and they're built a model around it.
That said, Dortmund will still be near the top of the league, in the Champions League and one of Europe's better clubs for a while yet. Hummels hasn't had a good season anyway and Ginter will be a more than adequate long-term replacemet. Gundogan has been injured a lot the last few years too, and again they've got ready made replacements, they bought Weigl in the summer and he's been terrific and looks an amazing prospect. If Mkhitaryan leaves - which I doubt he will now this window, but may go for free in the summer - they've just bought another excellent prospect in Dembele.
Gundogan and Hummels will be losses, but Dortmund have always shown an ability to cope with their star players leaving extremely well. Gotze left and they replaced him with Mkhitaryan who's been immensely productive in terms of goals and assists, Lewandowski walked out for nothing yet it's not made a noticeable impact as they brought in Aubameyang the year before who's become one of Europe's top strikers. This is just the way things work with them, I'm sure they'd leave to be able to keep hold of all their best players but the reality is, they're always going to struggle, they know this and they're built a model around it.
It's a pretty valid query. Not sure why you're frothing at the mouth.
I think they will continue to excel. They seem to always pull off some bargain buys. If Auba goes, Pulisic could step up. If Reus/Mhikitaryan goes they've got Dembélé. I think they'll be fine to be honest.
They're used to losing players but it was generally one per year, and of the 4 big departures - Sahin, Kagawa, Gotze and Lewa, they got 2 of them back.
Losing Hummels and Gundogan in one summer would be tough summer to recover from, throw in Mkhitaryan and it'd be unfair.
Losing Hummels and Gundogan in one summer would be tough summer to recover from, throw in Mkhitaryan and it'd be unfair.
Bayern and others will poach Dortmund players. Dortmund will use the money to poach from the rest of the Bundesliga! It's how the football sphere works 
Seems I have it figured out.
*jest*
Seriously though, they might not win the Bundesliga (unless Bayern lose motivation or something), but they're a big club who will continue to finish there or thereabouts in the Bundesliga.
They've lost star players before and seemingly always replace them well.
Seems I have it figured out.
*jest*
Seriously though, they might not win the Bundesliga (unless Bayern lose motivation or something), but they're a big club who will continue to finish there or thereabouts in the Bundesliga.
They've lost star players before and seemingly always replace them well.
Sokratis and Ginter are fine, with Gueirero and Piszczek as fullbacks they could have a solid defense and I heard that they were after Sule.
I could see them perform in a line up like this one:
-------------Aubam
Dembélé*--Henrik---Reus -------------*Pulisic will compete with him
----------Castro-Weigl
Gueirero-Ginter-Sokratis-Pisczek
--------------Burki
With the money from Gundogan and Hummels, they can go after Sule, Arnold, Dahoud and I don't who else, in my opinion they are fine
The ten point gap from this season is a bit misleading, they were five points apart until the second to last matchday and at that point you could see the focus shift towards the cup final. It's all theoretical but imho they would've had a good shot at seriously challenging Bayern next season if they could've kept their squad together and improved the depth a bit.
They already bought Castro as a Gündogan replacement last summer, when the latter seemed certain to leave and I think he settled in quite well after some initial struggles.
Hummels won't be easily replaced, they simply won't be able to buy a player of similar stature. There were media reports (from more reliable sources) that Tuchel actually wasn't that sad to see Hummels leave, but that might also be an attempt to spin the the thing in a more favourable direction. Toprak is apparently Tuchel's/Dortmund's first choice for the open spot.
Whether or not Mkhitaryan extends his contract is still open. There were several of the reliable sources who reported the extension all but done, however some time has passed since then, which obviously causes question marks. I think he'd be foolish to leave since he seems quite sensible and Dortmund/Tuchel appears to be the perfect context for him to realize his full potential and I also think he's smart enough to know that. There's also a lack of trustworthy rumours regarding clubs who actually want to buy him. But in football you never know.
In any case Watzke already said that they won't allow all three to leave this summer, so even if he doesn't extend it seems very likely that he's going to stay for at least another season.
Aubameyang has a long term contract, so I don't think there is a real chance of him leaving.
In general I'd say that Dortmund's future is looking very bright. Revenue keeps constantly increasing, it will probably not be enough to close the gap towards Bayern in the foreseeable future, but they are setting themselves further apart from the rest of Bundesliga with every season (Castro leaving his boyhood club who managed to qualify for CL in order to play EL with Dortmund kind of shows the stature that Dortmund has gained).
They also have several very promising talents (most notably Pulisic, Dembele, Weigl and Passlack - though the latter hasn't shown a lot at senior level yet) already lined up and their academy seems to be fully taking off now.
I think the club will be to the rest of the league what Bayern is to them and the main goal will be to keep the clubs behind them at a distance while growing steadily themselves and being ready when the opportunity to snatch a title presents itself.
It's also not that easy to make predictions about that next season, because we might see some big changes. This season Tuchel mainly had to work with Klopp's squad. This season transfer window however will give him the chance to restructure the squad according to his philosophy.
For example Subotic is looking very likely to leave and I can see Ginter leaving as well (he's one of those guys who is good at many things but great at few, so I don't see him being a regular starter for Dortmund in the future), while one the other side they are supposedly about to sign Lorient's Guerreiro (I haven't seen a single game of him, so maybe some of our French folks could enlighten me), a L(W)B who is supposedly much more attacking than Schmelzer, and Rode is supposedly all but done too, which would add a more combative player to their midfield arsenal.
They already bought Castro as a Gündogan replacement last summer, when the latter seemed certain to leave and I think he settled in quite well after some initial struggles.
Hummels won't be easily replaced, they simply won't be able to buy a player of similar stature. There were media reports (from more reliable sources) that Tuchel actually wasn't that sad to see Hummels leave, but that might also be an attempt to spin the the thing in a more favourable direction. Toprak is apparently Tuchel's/Dortmund's first choice for the open spot.
Whether or not Mkhitaryan extends his contract is still open. There were several of the reliable sources who reported the extension all but done, however some time has passed since then, which obviously causes question marks. I think he'd be foolish to leave since he seems quite sensible and Dortmund/Tuchel appears to be the perfect context for him to realize his full potential and I also think he's smart enough to know that. There's also a lack of trustworthy rumours regarding clubs who actually want to buy him. But in football you never know.
In any case Watzke already said that they won't allow all three to leave this summer, so even if he doesn't extend it seems very likely that he's going to stay for at least another season.
Aubameyang has a long term contract, so I don't think there is a real chance of him leaving.
In general I'd say that Dortmund's future is looking very bright. Revenue keeps constantly increasing, it will probably not be enough to close the gap towards Bayern in the foreseeable future, but they are setting themselves further apart from the rest of Bundesliga with every season (Castro leaving his boyhood club who managed to qualify for CL in order to play EL with Dortmund kind of shows the stature that Dortmund has gained).
They also have several very promising talents (most notably Pulisic, Dembele, Weigl and Passlack - though the latter hasn't shown a lot at senior level yet) already lined up and their academy seems to be fully taking off now.
I think the club will be to the rest of the league what Bayern is to them and the main goal will be to keep the clubs behind them at a distance while growing steadily themselves and being ready when the opportunity to snatch a title presents itself.
It's also not that easy to make predictions about that next season, because we might see some big changes. This season Tuchel mainly had to work with Klopp's squad. This season transfer window however will give him the chance to restructure the squad according to his philosophy.
For example Subotic is looking very likely to leave and I can see Ginter leaving as well (he's one of those guys who is good at many things but great at few, so I don't see him being a regular starter for Dortmund in the future), while one the other side they are supposedly about to sign Lorient's Guerreiro (I haven't seen a single game of him, so maybe some of our French folks could enlighten me), a L(W)B who is supposedly much more attacking than Schmelzer, and Rode is supposedly all but done too, which would add a more combative player to their midfield arsenal.
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Just one butthurt poster with an obession with the alert notification, obviously doesnt get a lot of them so he's decided to vent his anger, personally I think he should see a caf physchiatrist, its quite unhealthy.
I've heard Mkhitaryan wants to re-sign with the club, providing they include a buyout cause stipulating that if Tuchel leaves, he can also leave. Doesnt look like Dortmund are playing ball, which baffles me, Tuchel will be there reasonably long term, so they'd get his best years at the club. Makes sense for them to agree to those terms, plus I dont think the player will thrive as much elsewhere, if he does leave I can see another Sahin, Kagawa Gotze situation.
Dortmund ruled out release clauses out of principle. And it remains to be seen how long Tuchel will stay there. He doesn't strike me as someone who gets attached to his club.
We heard you the first time
IMHO it's a topic for discussion as they have lost some big players.
Is Guerreiro a done deal already? And is he really good? They just gave Schmelzer a new 5 year contract, so I'm a bit surprised they were looking for a new leftback.
I don't think Gundogan has been key for them with a few years now, often injured, often out of form.
Hummels is a loss, but not an earth shattering one either, they might replace him with a faster CB who could suit Tuchel better, maybe?
Anyway, if a few of their signings work out as expected, it'll be business as usual for them.
Hummels is a loss, but not an earth shattering one either, they might replace him with a faster CB who could suit Tuchel better, maybe?
Anyway, if a few of their signings work out as expected, it'll be business as usual for them.
I think that he is good particularly going forward and I don't think that it's done deal, but I would like to see how good he can be in a team like Dortmund.
Unfortunately they need a few years of mismanagement at Bayern to truly challenge again.
The Bundesliga has become a bit of a joke like Serie A and La Liga.
The Bundesliga has become a bit of a joke like Serie A and La Liga.
This Dortmund team are so prone to injuries, not least Hummels and Ilkay. At the top of their game they are great but more often than not they have been injured or off it.
Papa has been a rock this season so providing Ginter steps up or they buy a decent replacement, losing Hummels isn't a problem. They still have Subotic who I still rate.
Losing Gundogan is a bigger problem as they dont have a better passer of the ball who can actually dictate tempo. Castro dosen't track back and makes sloppy mistakes, Weigl plays deeper and Kagawa plays further ahead in the Midfield Diamond 3. I'm not convinced Sahin is the answer. He just dosent seem right since the long lay off.
They will still finish 2nd and be competitive in the CL though.
Papa has been a rock this season so providing Ginter steps up or they buy a decent replacement, losing Hummels isn't a problem. They still have Subotic who I still rate.
Losing Gundogan is a bigger problem as they dont have a better passer of the ball who can actually dictate tempo. Castro dosen't track back and makes sloppy mistakes, Weigl plays deeper and Kagawa plays further ahead in the Midfield Diamond 3. I'm not convinced Sahin is the answer. He just dosent seem right since the long lay off.
They will still finish 2nd and be competitive in the CL though.
If they kept some of the players, I would have fancied them to challenge for the league with Ancelottis league record.
Aubamayang is another player who looks to be off. Apparently his international manager gave him time off to finalise a move. That will be their biggest loss this transfer window if he leaves.
Aubamayang is another player who looks to be off. Apparently his international manager gave him time off to finalise a move. That will be their biggest loss this transfer window if he leaves.
I don't know why so many people are scoffing at the OP. The way their team got torn to shreds over the last few years has meant that it's nearly impossible for them to catch bayern in the league especially if more players leave whereas they win the league twice and became champions league heavyweights for a while. Clearly they are coping the best they can but not the force they were only a few years ago...
We probably played the second best league season in decades last season. Anyone watching us consistently will realize that while we play differently now, the strength and overall performances of the team have not weakened aside of one horrible season half the season before the last. What many people seem to misunderstand is that the gulf between us and Bayern has not widened because we got weaker, but rather because they played four incredible league seasons in a row. Their treble winning season 2012/2013 was arguably the best in the history of their club and in the three seasons afterwards they had the best league manager of this century, who is an expert in archiving stupidly strong consistency.
The clubs are currently negotiating over the fee. Personal terms are already agreed between player and club according to several trustworthy sources. Matter of time IMO.
I see Guerreiro in terms of skillset and style a pretty great fit for the left Wingback role in our 3-5-3 system. He gives us more tactical freedom and finally proper cover for Schmelzer who is stronger in a 4 man defense line. Given Tuchel´s tendency to rotate heavily at times both players will get planty of playing time over the season.
As for a more general view as what will happen now with Dortmund, not that much will change aside of the squad being more geared towards Tuchel´s idea to play football. We are also looking closer into talent development again, which makes sense with the grown strength of our aceademy, one of the best scouting networks on the planet, a very good reputation amongst talents and a coach who excells in that area. On top of that we are looking for established players in the national market to solidify the squad and use the grown distance between us and the rest of the league to our advantage. Nothing shows that better than our most likeliest reaction of losing our defensive lead player to Bayern, which is to take his equivalent from the third placed team this season.
More of the same boredom we had the last three years I guess.
It's because that topic has already been discussed over and over again in various transfer threads (of Dortmund players) and the Bundesliga thread. It's also hard to take the OP as a serious start for a discussion when he's wrongly claiming that Gündogan and Hummels went for a combined sum of 20 million.
It's actually quite simple with Dortmund. They are a 2nd tier club (I know for some people that sounds horrible but it actually isn't) who will sell players if they get the right price, the player forces its way out and they have a longterm plan to replace that player. They won't be on the same competitiv level of Bayern and they know it (which doesn't mean that they're unable to win the Bundesliga). This is just another thread where people can shout "OMG, Dortmund sold their best players againt. Bundesliga is a one horse race, I won't watch it from now on" (as if they ever have).
Casey has southern charm. Even though he is from Boston.
Reus could be out for 2-4 months according to various reports......it's really a tricky injury.
Good thread @Twigginater
Really don't know what will happen to BVB. As for the Bundesliga: Bayern will keeping getting the pick of top German players and top players plying their trade in Germany, will keep dominating the league and then after a while they will get bored and some other club pulling above their weight at that time will win a title or two. Then that clubs players will get picked by Bayern or teams outside Bundesliga with resources. Bayern will wake up from their temporary slumber to dominate again. Rinse and repeat.
Really don't know what will happen to BVB. As for the Bundesliga: Bayern will keeping getting the pick of top German players and top players plying their trade in Germany, will keep dominating the league and then after a while they will get bored and some other club pulling above their weight at that time will win a title or two. Then that clubs players will get picked by Bayern or teams outside Bundesliga with resources. Bayern will wake up from their temporary slumber to dominate again. Rinse and repeat.
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I think it is funny that some people see only Bayern but do not look out for the other clubs like e.g. Gladbach, Schalke or Leverkusen. They cannot pay the wages Dortmund can pay and loose out in competition for new players.
Gladbach is 4th CL-Qualifier but looses Nordveit to West Ham, xhaka to Arsenal and Chelsea wants too much for loaned Christensen.
Gladbach is 4th CL-Qualifier but looses Nordveit to West Ham, xhaka to Arsenal and Chelsea wants too much for loaned Christensen.
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Twigg finally makes a half decent thread and he gets absolutely destroyed. Relax guys.. attack the post the poster.
I think they might be better placed for the long term future but can't see them being as good as they used to be in near future especially in Europe.
I think they might be better placed for the long term future but can't see them being as good as they used to be in near future especially in Europe.
Have an alert bubble @PeteManic, you clearly need some.
To be fair, with Ancelotti coming to Bayern, Dortmund has their best chance of winning BL in years - he truly has an abysmal league record, what was it, 3 wins in his whole career, including only one with the Milan side of 00's which looks like a fantasy team - Maldini, Nesta, Costacurta, Kaka, Schevchenko, Pirlo, Seedorf, Cafu, Stam, Gattuso, Crespo, Rui Costa, Inzaghi...
It will be very tough for him to lose the league though, Bayern are such a well-run club with the best squad in the world.
It will be very tough for him to lose the league though, Bayern are such a well-run club with the best squad in the world.
They're a joke of a club.
Everyone loved them when Gotze, Reus, Lewandowski, Hummels and Klopp were there. But look what happened, they let their best players go to their main rivals. Even their manager got sick of it.
How are they supposed to compete with Bayern when their best players would rather jump ship than fight for the team? Everyone they buy that comes good will inevitably leave them. So they're just going round in circles really.
Everyone loved them when Gotze, Reus, Lewandowski, Hummels and Klopp were there. But look what happened, they let their best players go to their main rivals. Even their manager got sick of it.
How are they supposed to compete with Bayern when their best players would rather jump ship than fight for the team? Everyone they buy that comes good will inevitably leave them. So they're just going round in circles really.
At this point I don't even think losing Gundogan will hurt them much. It's not 2013.
How are they a joke of a club? What are they supposed to do when their players want to leave? Force them to stay, sulk, play badly and be a bad influence?
If they are a joke for letting Lewa, Gotze and Hummels go then we are a joke for letting Ronaldo, RVN, Di Maria and Beckham go when they wanted to leave.
People keep saying this, but I'm sure he played whenever I watched them (rarely admittedly) this year.
He played the ninth most minutes for the club across all competitions (I've just seen after googling)
German league will always be a 1 horse race apart from a blip every now and then. Dortmund should be able replace Hummels and have done well before without Gundogan.
They'll still be comfortably the second best team still.
They'll still be comfortably the second best team still.
He's not irreplacable because you can't rely on him being fit and they would have to plan the next season without him anyway, even if he extended. He played a lot this season and did play well, but I don't think he stood out in the way he did pre-injury. And with his injury record and considering the fact that he'll be out for the first half of next season anyway, it's just in doubt that any club will ever see 2012-2013 Gündogan ever consistently again.
They won the first 7 of the 9 games he didn't play in the league (the last 2 were the last 2 in the season which looked as if they had given up on the league title and already focused on the cup final, so we probably shouldn't read too much into those). They beat Porto and Tottenham without him in the EL and it didn't look as if they were missing him all that much against Liverpool either (their collapse had nothing to do with their CM and they were actually still going through to the semifinal when he was subbed in). They won the cup semifinal and gave Bayern a tough game in the final without him as well. Their cup final performance without Gündogan was easily their best game against Bayern this season.
There's no denying that a healthy Gündogan in peak form would be a huge, huge loss. It just doesn't look as if they lose that player.
Don't know what to think about all these "leave Twigg alone, he's made a decent thread finally" posts 