What should be the realistic expectations for 2020-21?

Siorac

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If Pep Guardiola, probably the world's greatest manager, requires 600m and 12 players to turn a decent City team into champions, why would you expect Ole to magically steer the team to four more points with a threadbare squad and a mere 40m in squad investments?
This part is supposed to be sarcasm, right? Satire? It's hard to tell on the internet.

If you seriously believe that the only way to improve from one season to the next is to spend 600m and even four extra points is too much to expect... well then I really don't know what to say.

The rest of your post, calling me a Glazer, is childish nonsense. The Glazers are shite, Woodward is awful but Ole's not doing a very good job either.
 

DSG

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This part is supposed to be sarcasm, right? Satire? It's hard to tell on the internet.

If you seriously believe that the only way to improve from one season to the next is to spend 600m and even four extra points is too much to expect... well then I really don't know what to say.

The rest of your post, calling me a Glazer, is childish nonsense. The Glazers are shite, Woodward is awful but Ole's not doing a very good job either.
No, not sarcasm. Not sure if you are watching the matches by braille, because clearly, you are blind, but at the end of the season, Ole played the same starting 11 every match, and we were absolutely knackered. To expect this squad to have the same level of success without strengthening is pure madness. IF Pogba doesn't get injured, IF Martial stays healthy, IF DeGea magically rediscovers his form, IF Greenwood improves... Pogba misses matches every season, so does Martial. It's ridiculous to assume that the same 12-13 dependable players that allowed us to put together a run from February on will all stay healthy for the entire season.

Oh, and a bit of advice, Avram: Just own the baldness. That wispy, mullet / ponytail thingy is the world's worst fashion choice since the haircut was invented.
 

charlenefan

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After yesterday? 40 points as quickly as we can

(I joke)
 

Lentwood

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4th should be considered a 'good' season. However, we won't be able to count 4th as acceptable for much longer so we really need to be making the additions we need in key areas to go from 'good' to 'very good'.
 

Bubz27

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It'll be a scrap for top 4 again. Best case.

After past season I expected us to strengthen and push on and comfortably secure top 4. But very unlikely. Chelsea will be there, Spurs won't be as bad as last season and Arsenal are much better.
 

Edy2

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Top 4 but 70 points will probably be needed for that this time as teams have strengthened. Touch and go whether we have a 70 point season in us currently.
 

Siorac

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No, not sarcasm. Not sure if you are watching the matches by braille, because clearly, you are blind, but at the end of the season, Ole played the same starting 11 every match, and we were absolutely knackered. To expect this squad to have the same level of success without strengthening is pure madness. IF Pogba doesn't get injured, IF Martial stays healthy, IF DeGea magically rediscovers his form, IF Greenwood improves... Pogba misses matches every season, so does Martial. It's ridiculous to assume that the same 12-13 dependable players that allowed us to put together a run from February on will all stay healthy for the entire season.

Oh, and a bit of advice, Avram: Just own the baldness. That wispy, mullet / ponytail thingy is the world's worst fashion choice since the haircut was invented.
oh feck off with the Glazer shite already. It's not funny.

It's insane that you believe we shouldn't even be expected to improve on last season. 66 fecking points. Even Moyes only got two fewer than that. I don't expect those dependable players to play brilliantly all season long, I just expect them to overall be slightly better than Andreas fecking Pereira and Jesse effing Lingard. But clearly, even that's too much to ask; to reach 70 points, United need to spend another half a billion. To win the title, we'll probably need about 4-5 billion.
 

Sandikan

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Scraping 4th will be a great result this season with the current squad.
Maybe a cup run or two.

However, there's every chance we could find ourselves 6th or 7th. It's very hard to judge at the moment. Yesterday was worryingly bad.
 

DSG

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oh feck off with the Glazer shite already. It's not funny.

It's insane that you believe we shouldn't even be expected to improve on last season. 66 fecking points. Even Moyes only got two fewer than that. I don't expect those dependable players to play brilliantly all season long, I just expect them to overall be slightly better than Andreas fecking Pereira and Jesse effing Lingard. But clearly, even that's too much to ask; to reach 70 points, United need to spend another half a billion. To win the title, we'll probably need about 4-5 billion.
:boring:
 

DSG

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oh feck off with the Glazer shite already. It's not funny.

It's insane that you believe we shouldn't even be expected to improve on last season. 66 fecking points. Even Moyes only got two fewer than that. I don't expect those dependable players to play brilliantly all season long, I just expect them to overall be slightly better than Andreas fecking Pereira and Jesse effing Lingard. But clearly, even that's too much to ask; to reach 70 points, United need to spend another half a billion. To win the title, we'll probably need about 4-5 billion.
I expect to challenge for trophies. I don’t really care about the number of points. If we win the league with 65 points, does that mean Ole should be sacked? If we get 75 points, but finish 8th, does he stay? It’s stupid, arbitrary and lame.
I’m interested in challenging for the league. The lack of transfer activity is absurd given our momentum of last season and the strengthening by our competition.

Winning the league will cost mad amounts of money. That’s just a fact. I suppose we can just give up and set arbitrary point targets, and invest 50m a year like some mid table side, but we are Man Utd. If you don’t want to rule, you cannot wear the crown, simple as that.
 

NJM78

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We have taken 66 points from 117 since beginning of last season. We have only won 18 of 39 games! This team will be getting between 60 and 70 points max in my opinion which should definitely get us top 6.

I can see other teams besides Liverpool, City and Chelsea winning the title before we do again.

The ownership needs to change and we need better coaching and players...the penny has well and truly dropped.
 

Banana Republic

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We have taken 66 points from 117 since beginning of last season. We have only won 18 of 39 games! .....
I assume you're including this first game of the new season?
Max 114 points + 3 for this first game ?

You make a good point about the number of games won.
Utd won less than half of our PL games last season (W18).
The previous season we only won half our games (W19) to end up in 6th place, the same as Arsenal, finishing in 6th place the season before that with 19 wins.
In 2016/17 we also finished in 6th place, having only won 18 games (less than half).

Our 3rd place was partly a fluke in a very unusual season, heavily aided by other so called “top 4 contenders” also failing miserably.
We won't be getting a top 5 spot this season by only winning half our games or less.
 
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NJM78

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I assume you're including this first game of the new season?
Max 114 points + 3 for this first game ?

You make a good point about the number of games won.
Utd won less than half of our PL games last season (W18).
The previous season we only won half our games (W19) to end up in 6th place, the same as Arsenal, finishing in 6th place the season before that with 19 wins.
In 2016/17 we also finished in 6th place, having only won 18 games (less than half).

Our 3rd place was partly a fluke in a very unusual season, heavily aided by other expected top 4 contenders also failing miserably.
We won't be getting a top 5 spot this season by only winning half our games or less.
Yes exactly, this was why strengthening our starting 11 (which subsequently strengthens our bench) was so important. Every other team got the memo it seems.
 

Infra-red

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The realistic limit of our aspirations is a 4th place league finish and some decent cup runs. I don't expect us to pick up any trophies.

Arsenal, Spurs, Leicester and probably Wolves will all fancy their chances of finishing above us, but I doubt there will be very much between the teams. Basically, a roll of the dice for who actually gets that 4th spot.
 

Siorac

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I expect to challenge for trophies. I don’t really care about the number of points. If we win the league with 65 points, does that mean Ole should be sacked? If we get 75 points, but finish 8th, does he stay? It’s stupid, arbitrary and lame.
I’m interested in challenging for the league. The lack of transfer activity is absurd given our momentum of last season and the strengthening by our competition.

Winning the league will cost mad amounts of money. That’s just a fact. I suppose we can just give up and set arbitrary point targets, and invest 50m a year like some mid table side, but we are Man Utd. If you don’t want to rule, you cannot wear the crown, simple as that.
Looking at points totals is actually LESS arbitrary than looking at finishing positions. We finished third last season - but if Leicester had taken when one of their chances at 0-0 on the final day and beaten us, we would have been fifth. It would be stupid and arbitrary to judge the manager on one game - this is why it's much better to use the number of points, wins, goals scored, and so on, over the whole season to judge the team's performance. Finishing fifth with 75+ points because everyone above gets more than 80 would mean that we progressed but the competition got much stronger: at that point you would probably be justified to say that the manager improved the team but upper management failed to invest properly.

66 points is generally around 6th place (it was only enough for top 4 twice in the last 10 seasons). It's poor. We have the world's most expensive defender, a 50m full-back on the right, over 200m worth of talent in midfield including World Cup winner Paul Pogba and two times Premier League champion Nemanja Matic, and a front three that got 62 goals between them last season in all competitions and have an average age of 22. Yes, to challenge for trophies we have significant weaknesses that must be addressed but doing better (winning more games, scoring more goals, being closer to the top teams) than the last two seasons really should be the bare minimum expectation.
 

Suedesi

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Now the season is almost over and many of us see that the club is moving in a right direction. We are also expecting to fill up 2 or 3 key positions in the transfer market.

We also expect some of the squad members to be offloaded in the next couple of months.

Pogba's contract, Goalkeeper conundrum are the things we expect to get sorted out sooner than later. At the same time there is an excitement to see promising academy players like Mejbri, Mengi to get more chances next season under Ole.

Given all this, what should be our realistic expectations from Ole and his squad next season?

In my point of view, I would consider next season a success and right direction if we achieve the following:
1. Top 2 finish in PL
2. At least qtr final in CL
3. Either of FA cup or Carabao cup
A Director of Football and some football people on the Board would be a huge achievement and step forward. Not holding my breath though.
 

DSG

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Looking at points totals is actually LESS arbitrary than looking at finishing positions. We finished third last season - but if Leicester had taken when one of their chances at 0-0 on the final day and beaten us, we would have been fifth. It would be stupid and arbitrary to judge the manager on one game - this is why it's much better to use the number of points, wins, goals scored, and so on, over the whole season to judge the team's performance. Finishing fifth with 75+ points because everyone above gets more than 80 would mean that we progressed but the competition got much stronger: at that point you would probably be justified to say that the manager improved the team but upper management failed to invest properly.

66 points is generally around 6th place (it was only enough for top 4 twice in the last 10 seasons). It's poor. We have the world's most expensive defender, a 50m full-back on the right, over 200m worth of talent in midfield including World Cup winner Paul Pogba and two times Premier League champion Nemanja Matic, and a front three that got 62 goals between them last season in all competitions and have an average age of 22. Yes, to challenge for trophies we have significant weaknesses that must be addressed but doing better (winning more games, scoring more goals, being closer to the top teams) than the last two seasons really should be the bare minimum expectation.
Evaluating performance without any consideration to the trends and environment in your industry is a poor way to do business. Does not matter the industry. I understand that a hard and set number is comfortable for you to gauge progress, but it is intellectually deficient and flawed. Imagine you were head of sales for an airline right now, and your CEO came to you and said, "sorry, @Siorac, we are going to have to fire you, because sales are down 57% over the last 6 months." Clearly, your boss has not factored in why you failed to reach your target.

There has to be some sort of qualitative and quantitative criteria for performance. And that cannot be viewed through a simplistic prism, a binary yes or no. I get that points earned is a good measure of progress, but it isn't the ONLY measure. If De Gea doesn't muff a few saves and clearances, we probably have 6-9 points more -- the magical number 75. Does that mean Ole's safe?

In today's society, we tend to pick a narrative that fits our worldview, our political beliefs or even our thoughts about our football club; then we assemble "facts" to fit that narrative. The world, quite simply, is much more complex than that, and this confirmation bias has infected every corner of the earth.

I choose to stand for nuance. I believe that we can objectively look at a problem and understand that there is a gray area, and it is okay to be less than 100% sure about our beliefs. I am generally a "Ole's at the wheel" guy, and I support him. Am I at 100%? No. But, truth be told, I was never at 100% on SAF either, and he was the greatest manager that ever lived.

A varied set of criteria is always better than a single set to evaluate performance. The fact that Sir Alex Ferguson would have been sacked 4 out of his first 5 seasons based on your standard tells us that ultimatums can be a terrible thing.
 

Mr Anderson

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If we dont improve the squad anymore, can envisage a squad burnout by the usual end of Feb/start of March period as Ole doesn't do rotation well (hard with our meh options anyway). We will be lucky to get 4th. Literally every other club in the top 8 has reinforced better than us so far.

So much for the "United in best place to do deals in transfer market after covid" bollocks.

My expectations are sadly quite low.
 

Murray3007

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when our season finished, I expected 3/4 players in to improve us, pogba's contract to be sorted out, lot of deadwood out the door and us to be maybe not a full title charge but a lot more signs on it.

as of now I think at best we are scrapping to get in the top 4 again, and at best winning the league or fa cup.
 

Crustanoid

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We won’t get top 4 this time. We’re too weak beyond our first XI and many other teams are both ambitious in the transfer market and well drilled and cohesive outfits, plus we are susceptible to injuries across the board. I wouldn’t be surprised by any position from 5th down to 9th.
 

bosnian_red

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At best is hoping for a grind for top 4 but early exits out of the cups (and even then no guarantee), or alternatively maybe one of the cups but not finishing top 4. Don't have the squad for both because of no reinforcements.
 

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Unless more transfers are made top 4 is the best we can hope for. City and Liverpool will still battle it out for the title while we, Chelsea, Spurs, Arsenal, Leichester, Wolves and Everton will fight for 3rd and 4th.
Not sure about Spurs and Leicester, but the rest are good candidates. Everton would need to get a better keeper, but their attacking ability and with Allan in their midfield, things will be looking good for them.
 

elmo

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We fluked our way into the too 4 last year with 66 points with so many top teams being shit as well.

Don't really see us getting more than 70 points this year and it'll be a struggle for top 4.
 

Foxbatt

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Not sure about Spurs and Leicester, but the rest are good candidates. Everton would need to get a better keeper, but their attacking ability and with Allan in their midfield, things will be looking good for them.
They have a good manager too. Jose seems to have got his mojo back too and with Bale in the side they can be a very good team.
 

Greck

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Looking at points totals is actually LESS arbitrary than looking at finishing positions. We finished third last season - but if Leicester had taken when one of their chances at 0-0 on the final day and beaten us, we would have been fifth. It would be stupid and arbitrary to judge the manager on one game - this is why it's much better to use the number of points, wins, goals scored, and so on, over the whole season to judge the team's performance. Finishing fifth with 75+ points because everyone above gets more than 80 would mean that we progressed but the competition got much stronger: at that point you would probably be justified to say that the manager improved the team but upper management failed to invest properly.

66 points is generally around 6th place (it was only enough for top 4 twice in the last 10 seasons). It's poor. We have the world's most expensive defender, a 50m full-back on the right, over 200m worth of talent in midfield including World Cup winner Paul Pogba and two times Premier League champion Nemanja Matic, and a front three that got 62 goals between them last season in all competitions and have an average age of 22. Yes, to challenge for trophies we have significant weaknesses that must be addressed but doing better (winning more games, scoring more goals, being closer to the top teams) than the last two seasons really should be the bare minimum expectation.
He doesn't realise using points tally is the far more generous criteria. Too focused on preventing Ole being held to any kind of quantifiable expectations. It's like the goal is to set the bar so low that anything can be viewed as progress
 
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Statue of Limitations

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We beat Man City 3 times last season and were the first team to take points off Liverpool, we beat Chelsea home and away in the league and we finished top (or very close) of the form table since Bruno arrived.

We can clearly compete with the big boys, we just need some more consistency in dealing with the "lesser" teams.

A few more solid squad options will help us there, we have a great first XI.
 

OleTheGreat

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I doubt there will be improvements in the style of play or how we do in regards to breaking the teams that sit back and defend. We're going to face the same problems as we did last season. What's more worrying to me this season is that we have a jam packed schedule and it is going to be really really difficult to cope with the games that come our way. Although we as fans will find it hard to believe that playing games every 3 days is not a difficult task, one has to remember that we did not finish last season until late July and the pre season has been very very short. I think we are going to have a torrid time of all the clubs sensing from our bench which has low quality players and that we will struggle to make it anywhere close to the top4. I'm a huge fan of Manchester United and Ole but except that the owners and the management has be ridiculous from a long time ago and this season barring every other season before this will truly show how ridiculous we are in terms of player management and quality. We may have to see many U23 and U18 players come up the rank just to keep the team going. All I see is a huge struggle and scoring anything close to 70 points will be a genius from Ole. What is even more concerning is, he might not have a job come the new year because outside of our starting XI, we do not have players who can challenge at the top and all this is going to round of a bad season on the whole. It is very disheartening for me to say anything of this sort about my club but I'm being paranoid and this is just flowing out of me because of all the frustration that has set in. I feel for Ole, this is all I can say for him. I really really hope they prove me wrong and do something significant. It scares me where we are going as a club right now.

#GlazersOut #WoodwardOut #JudgeOut #VanDerSarIn or #ScholesyIn as DoF!
 

Tony247

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Is top 4 even a realistic expectation by now?

I think it is achievable but not 100% confident that we WILL finish in top 4.

In CL I doubt we will go beyond QF. Semis in other cups may be. But overall I am expecting another trophyless season.
 

DRJosh

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Anything below 4th will be complete failure. I don’t think we’ll get past the first knockout round in the CL unless we have one of those lucky couple of games where everything clicks
 

Leftback99

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Is top 4 even a realistic expectation by now?

I think it is achievable but not 100% confident that we WILL finish in top 4.

In CL I doubt we will go beyond QF. Semis in other cups may be. But overall I am expecting another trophyless season.
It's realistic but not expected. We're 5/2 at the bookies for top 4 with City, Liverpool, Chelsea, Spurs and Arsenal given a higher chance.
 

prateik

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So.. a 75+ point season.. comfortable top 4 finish. more signs of progress. more deadwood cleared..

We look on course for that.. Good season ?
 

OleBoiii

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Without taking recency bias into account and looking at our strongest XI, this is my conclusion:

70 points
The bare minimum for a decent coach, although at the end of the day being better than your opponents is ultimately what matters. If 65 points is enough to make top 4, then that would be the bare minimum. The question is: is the bare minimum enough for a United coach in his second full season? Normally it wouldn't be, but Ole seems to be doing a lot of other things right(man management, interviews, transfers policy etc), so he'll probably get to stay if he gets top 4. And that's probably the right decision.

75 points
Roughly as expected. Not much to add.

80 points(+)
A good achievement.
If it's a title challenge(no more than 5 points behind the winners) then it's a very good achievement.
If it leads to a title, then it's an excellent achievement.
 

Pretzels81

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Now I'm mad they bottled it in the UCL Group Stage. We are a meaner, tougher animal now. We could have qualified for the semis.
 

Crashoutcassius

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I think a 10 PT improvement is good, so 76pts. We haven't meaningfully improved the team bar cavani who has only featured a small amount so far, so it is a good organic improvement and we could kick in with some real investment in summer
 

DRJosh

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Now I'm mad they bottled it in the UCL Group Stage. We are a meaner, tougher animal now. We could have qualified for the semis.
We did meekly loose to an average Sheffield United side. I think we are quite a distance away from making an impact in CL football (semis and beyond) as Real and Barca should eventually regain form and PSG/City/Liverpool/Bayern seem to have more grit about them in seeing games off strongly. Domestically, we've been stronger and are playing with more intent. I expect us to challenge for the semi-final spot in the Europa league but with this side anything is possible - the good, bad and the ugly.
 

CG1010

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Without taking recency bias into account and looking at our strongest XI, this is my conclusion:

70 points
The bare minimum for a decent coach, although at the end of the day being better than your opponents is ultimately what matters. If 65 points is enough to make top 4, then that would be the bare minimum. The question is: is the bare minimum enough for a United coach in his second full season? Normally it wouldn't be, but Ole seems to be doing a lot of other things right(man management, interviews, transfers policy etc), so he'll probably get to stay if he gets top 4. And that's probably the right decision.

75 points
Roughly as expected. Not much to add.

80 points(+)
A good achievement.
If it's a title challenge(no more than 5 points behind the winners) then it's a very good achievement.
If it leads to a title, then it's an excellent achievement.
Quite an understatement that last line is.. If we win a title this season then Ole will be hailed as Fergie mk 2.0 !

We have reached a stage where I would be quite disappointed by 70 points. We should maintain the 2 points per game benchmark atleast.
 

Withnail

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We did meekly loose to an average Sheffield United side. I think we are quite a distance away from making an impact in CL football (semis and beyond) as Real and Barca should eventually regain form and PSG/City/Liverpool/Bayern seem to have more grit about them in seeing games off strongly. Domestically, we've been stronger and are playing with more intent. I expect us to challenge for the semi-final spot in the Europa league but with this side anything is possible - the good, bad and the ugly.
That's a Sheffield side who seem to have gotten their mojo back. That's three wins they have now and all in the last 5 matches. They narrowly lost to City and our match could have gone the other way especially if the officials were doing their jobs.

One league match against a side fighting relegation isn't really comparable to how we'd perform on a big European night.

As for the season, we're good enough to expect to stay in touching distance in the league and significantly improve on last year in terms of a title challenge.

I know it was against 10 men and then 9 but, hopefully, that ruthless streak we showed last night can be carried forward into games against teams looking to park the bus.

I'd expect us to do well in the Europa but it's a Cup competition so nothing is guaranteed there.
 

Giggsy13

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Without taking recency bias into account and looking at our strongest XI, this is my conclusion:

70 points
The bare minimum for a decent coach, although at the end of the day being better than your opponents is ultimately what matters. If 65 points is enough to make top 4, then that would be the bare minimum. The question is: is the bare minimum enough for a United coach in his second full season? Normally it wouldn't be, but Ole seems to be doing a lot of other things right(man management, interviews, transfers policy etc), so he'll probably get to stay if he gets top 4. And that's probably the right decision.

75 points
Roughly as expected. Not much to add.

80 points(+)
A good achievement.
If it's a title challenge(no more than 5 points behind the winners) then it's a very good achievement.
If it leads to a title, then it's an excellent achievement.
70 points would be a disaster considering how the season has gone and would arguably put Ole in line to be sacked. That’s 26 points from 48, absolutely disgraceful if that happens.

We’re on pace for 80 + points, which in itself would be a great achievement for this squad post-Fergie. We’ve only achieved that total once under Jose. 80 to 85 points is realistic at this stage and would probably get us very close to the title.
 

BorisManUtd

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There's 16 games to go so 48 points available. If we end the season with 70 points it would mean we won 26 out of 48 points available from now till the end of the season. We should be able to take more than that.