OleBoiii
New Member
- Joined
- Oct 4, 2019
- Messages
- 6,021
Well, United 08 is the best team in the PL era and arguably in English football history. This Liverpool team isn't even top 3 in the PL era.
So yeah...
So yeah...
We beat a couple of very solid Lyon and Roma teams. A very good Barcelona and probably one of the best Chelsea teams in history in the final. Liverpool barely beat one of the most underwhelming Barcelona teams in years, an average Porto team, an out of form Bayern team and a bunch of bottlers in Tottenham. I wouldn't say their run was more impressive at all.Football has evolved so this Liverpool side is probably better in modern football. Although in relative terms I would say our 2008 team was better. Certainly more entertaining and with bigger profiles and bigger squad.
Still the competition back during those days was not as high in the league. It was mainly Chelsea that challenged for the title after Mourinho. Liverpool fairly strong too and did challenge in 2008/2009. After that the quality in the league was not that high.
Our CL win was great, but Liverpools was more impressive. More results against big teams and a big impressive comeback against Barcelona.
Still they didn't get a double and failed this season as well. We could have got a treble as well if not for the game against Pompey.
Lyon and Roma were a pretty easy run. It was also Barcelona pre having an insane Messi in that side and no Pep. Chelsea was a hard final just as fighting for the league with them was hard.We beat a couple of very solid Lyon and Roma teams. A very good Barcelona and probably one of the best Chelsea teams in history in the final. Liverpool barely beat one of the most underwhelming Barcelona teams in years, an average Porto team, an out of form Bayern team and a bunch of bottlers in Tottenham. I wouldn't say their run was more impressive at all.
A Ligue 1 conquering hugely talented Lyon team who were serial winners at the time with the likes of Juninho, Ben Arfa and Benzema who scored 20 league goals that season. A very good Roma team that only just missed out on Serie A by 3 points? You're talking daft. Messi also had a very good CL campaign that year, scoring 6 CL goals in 9 games along with 24 goals or assists in 28 league games so he was very good at a time when they still also had Ronaldinho, although he was injured for the 2nd half of that season.Lyon and Roma were a pretty easy run. It was also Barcelona pre having an insane Messi in that side and no Pep. Chelsea was a hard final just as fighting for the league with them was hard.
Still we won only on penalties in the end. That Terry slip was magical, but to be honest Chelsea should have won it otherwise. It was the smallest or margins to win the CL.
It is always great to win the CL though. Just we didn't impress that much beyond defending well. It was not like our attack with Rooney and Ronaldo were destroying the opponents.
Barca were far from a very good side when we beag them. They finished 3rd in their league.We beat a couple of very solid Lyon and Roma teams. A very good Barcelona and probably one of the best Chelsea teams in history in the final. Liverpool barely beat one of the most underwhelming Barcelona teams in years, an average Porto team, an out of form Bayern team and a bunch of bottlers in Tottenham. I wouldn't say their run was more impressive at all.
More off the ball with their whole pressing structure. In those days we had to park the bus against a not so great Barca side. This Liverpool side never has to play on the back foot.Better coached? Long balls and right wing crosses are these huge tactical advancements?
They were still a very good side regardless of their finish that season. Ronaldinho missed a lot of their season with injury which was a big loss for them. Defensively they had a few issues but you'd be daft to say that weren't still a force.Barca were far from a very good side when we beag them. They finished 3rd in their league.
I'm not actually sure you watched this United team the more you go on about it.Lyon and Roma were a pretty easy run. It was also Barcelona pre having an insane Messi in that side and no Pep. Chelsea was a hard final just as fighting for the league with them was hard.
Still we won only on penalties in the end. That Terry slip was magical, but to be honest Chelsea should have won it otherwise. It was the smallest or margins to win the CL.
It is always great to win the CL though. Just we didn't impress that much beyond defending well. It was not like our attack with Rooney and Ronaldo were destroying the opponents.
They werent a force at all. Dinho wasnt what he used to be, it was already a Messi team at that point. Even before the injury he used to be left out quite a fair bit fully fit. They were barely winning games when they played us.They were still a very good side regardless of their finish that season. Ronaldinho missed a lot of their season with injury which was a big loss for them. Defensively they had a few issues but you'd be daft to say that weren't still a force.
It was defo a Messi team I agree with that. I would argue he was their best player almost as soon as he appeared in the first team.They werent a force at all. Dinho wasnt what he used to be, it was already a Messi team at that point. Even before the injury he used to be left out quite a fair bit fully fit. They were barely winning games when they played us.
No 06/07 Ronaldinho was still there best player.It was defo a Messi team I agree with that. I would argue he was their best player almost as soon as he appeared in the first team.
He was more talented than Ronaldinho at any age let’s face it. He just didn’t play as many minutes and had some injuries early on adapting to the senior game.
Considering he scored that insane goal against Getafe in 2007 and the hat trick against Madrid I’d argue he was comfortably their best the season before when he played.
Madrid fans didn’t clap him off the field like Ronaldinho probably because they were busy scratching their heads thinking who’s this kid mugging us off.
Of course I watched it. We impressed a lot in the league and CL group stage, but not as much in the playoff. Apart from maybe Roma away.I'm not actually sure you watched this United team the more you go on about it.
The pressing is nothing new either and what Barca side are you referring to?More off the ball with their whole pressing structure. In those days we had to park the bus against a not so great Barca side. This Liverpool side never has to play on the back foot.
I disagree. Messi was on the right wing lots & hit pretty much the same goals per game. That tells me the teenager is maybe not quite getting the credit yet for how good he actually in reality.No 06/07 Ronaldinho was still there best player.
Are you sure?We definitely have the better players and squad but if I'm being honest they would give us a hell of a game. We're better but this Liverpool team is just so hard to play against.
Pressing pre Pep and post Pep is different. That is due to coaching. Klopp has been one of the best exponents it. There's a reason why these teams despite not necessarily having better individual quality achieve sunch incredible statistical feats while sides like our 08 side couldn't.The pressing is nothing new either and what Barca side are you referring to?
Edit nvm
he wasntNo 06/07 Ronaldinho was still there best player.
with some of the comments on here, you sometimes wonder how many posters actually are United fans or saw the teams firsthandWith some of the comments here you'd think players pressing the opposing team was something invented by Liverpool and no one else has done it, or experienced playing against such tactics, until the past couple of years.
He wasn't better than Dinho when he stepped into the team. Dinho just fell off after the world cup. His numbers were great due to set pieces.It was defo a Messi team I agree with that. I would argue he was their best player almost as soon as he appeared in the first team.
He was more talented than Ronaldinho at any age let’s face it. He just didn’t play as many minutes and had some injuries early on adapting to the senior game.
Considering he scored that insane goal against Getafe in 2007 and the hat trick against Madrid I’d argue he was comfortably their best the season before when he played.
Madrid fans didn’t clap him off the field like Ronaldinho probably because they were busy scratching their heads thinking who’s this kid mugging us off.
That's a very interesting, well thought out assessment. But as far as I can remember - & I may be wrong - the only time Rooney, Ronaldo, & Tevez all started against us was when we thrashed you 4-1 at your gaff in 2009. & I'm struggling to recall too many matches when the likes of Rooney & Ronaldo really stood out when playing against us during your 'golden period'. Let's not forget either that when it comes to hitting early balls & bypassing the midfield, we're pretty good at that too. Especially when you've got players like TAA & Robertson bombing down the flanks to make up an attacking 5.High intensity is dependent on what threats your opponents have and how much of what you give they can give back. Do you back your industrious midfield to find more pockets of space in an open game than two of the best passers English football has seen in the last 30 years? Do you believe your backline would better hold out against that attack than ours would against yours? How far forward do you think is advisable to push on when the counter is Ronaldo, Rooney and Tevez running the ball back up the pitch?
City's side play in one way, and one way alone, which makes them easier to prepare for and easier to shut down. One of United's many tactics back then was inviting the press, or at least pressure, then hitting the space in behind in a matter of seconds. Even with your fullbacks not pushing on, they haven't the ability one-on-one to deal with Rooney, Ronaldo and Tevez haring up the pitch, so further hindering the defensive effort by pressing further up the pitch would be suicidal.
Our Kryptonite lies in making the midfield run and chase the ball, where an asthmatic 30-something year old next to a not so mobile partner in Carrick is going to need help. Your midfield does not play the kind of football that would unsettle ours, and in a technical battle through midfield, you're going to be chasing the ball in areas you rarely have to in 2020.
Your biggest strength is not a great issue to the 2008 side and carries a level of risk so high, it might considered naive; our biggest strength vs you, however, is in having lots of superior players. Where this plays its hand is they were adept at numerous manner of attacking and defending, and we'd readily welcome 1vs1 contests all over the pitch, where I think, for you, your team-based, high octane football needs an in to work. You overly press and you'll bit hit long all day, and in a battle of bypassing midfield, you definitely don't want our attacking trio running at you where Sane, Salah and Firmino are going to be met with much harder 1vs1 contests.
For your strengths, you are formulaic. I really don't think the same can be said for our eclectic mix and the plethora of ways we scored goals, defended leads and controlled midfield.
The problems in Messi's game that you mentioned, like his inconsistent decision-making and passing, are to be expected in any teen player no matter how much hugely talented.He wasn't better than Dinho when he stepped into the team. Dinho just fell off after the world cup. His numbers were great due to set pieces.
Messi's game when he was young was rather innacurate at times. His passing was very inconsistent and used to be rather selfish. Certainly wasnt prime Ronaldinho at that point who was nothing short of a genius. Messi truly only reached those levels after Pep joined.
True but i was posting that in response to someone saying he was barca's best player from the moment he started playing for Barca.The problems in Messi's game that you mentioned, like his inconsistent decision-making and passing, are to be expected in any teen player no matter how much hugely talented.
You're right. One thing that also kept Messi from truly reaching his highest level before Pep is that he was plagued by injuries and bad eating habits for an athlete.True but i was posting that in response to someone saying he was barca's best player from the moment he started playing for Barca.
I agree with the injuries thing. I actually think that’s what stopped Messi getting a similar goal Talley to Ronaldinho over the full season that year.You're right. One thing that also kept Messi from truly reaching his highest level before Pep is that he was plagued by injuries and bad eating habits for an athlete.
Don’t undersell Ronaldinho, what separates them is desire and hard work as much as anything, the talent disparity is not that big although I remember reading a Four Four Two magazine article about Ronaldinho in like 06 and he was already saying along the lines ‘If you think I’m good wait for this Argentine kid’.I agree with the injuries thing. I actually think that’s what stopped Messi getting a similar goal Talley to Ronaldinho over the full season that year.
Messi could still do more impressive stuff even back then imo. Some of his runs boggled the mind. I do agree he improved an insane amount in the next year though! When Pep joined he became a machine.
Ronaldinho was more a player to watch for the love of the game rather than that relentless ability Messi could have on his day.
It is hard to compare since football has evolved and improved. The opponents each team is facing is not the same. Tactics have also changed.Its a United forum so I don't expect anything else but Liverpool over the last year is absolutely right there with 07-08 United. If the two sides played 10 times (without draws), you'd expect each to win five or maybe one to edge it slightly but there's really nothing meaningful between them, and that's just a testament to the greatness of both.
Yes I heard that line too. Again Ronaldinho is still one of the absolute greats I'd have loved him at United. His performance against Madrid has to be up there as maybe the best game ever played by a single player.Don’t undersell Ronaldinho, what separates them is desire and hard work as much as anything, the talent disparity is not that big although I remember reading a Four Four Two magazine article about Ronaldinho in like 06 and he was already saying along the lines ‘If you think I’m good wait for this Argentine kid’.
Who?
12 years ago, Barcelona were the pioneers of modern pressing. They changed the game completely. 12 years of tactical advances and people adopting the pressing system also means opposing teams have had more time to adapt to it.I'm not doubting the 2008 United's defensive qualities. It's not up for question. What is though is how they'd cope with the a side that plays high intensity football. You were well beaten in both CL finals against a Barcelona side that played full on football. That's not me saying that we're as good as that Barcelona side, but more that United struggled with a style of football where players worked extra hard in pressing & winning the ball back quickly.