Other What type of entertainment is better now than 20 years ago?

[Organic Potatoes]

In what rexpect? Technologically more advanced, sure, but we are in the entertainment forum. They haven’t got more entertaining. They found some abhorrent ways of extracting more money from the average punter, that’s for sure.

Indie developers are creating some beautiful works, and developing communities and playing with friends online changes everything in a positive way. Quality AAA titles can be jaw-dropping experiences even if they require less imagination.

As far as TV goes, some of the shows mentioned above aired after 2000 or at least had their best seasons after that. The latest ‘golden age of television’ might have started in the late 90’s but the bulk of it was in the last two decades.

Y’all are just getting old.

 

[JPRouve]

Indie developers are creating some beautiful works, and developing communities and playing with friends online changes everything in a positive way. Quality AAA titles can be jaw-dropping experiences even if they require less imagination.

As far as TV goes, some of the shows mentioned above aired after 2000 or at least had their best seasons after that. The latest ‘golden age of television’ might have started in the late 90’s but the bulk of it was in the last two decades.

Y’all are just getting old.

You are just trying to be hip with the yutes. Everything went downhill after the Game Gear and Dallas.

 

[Charlie Foley]

The Sopranos started in 1999
The Wire started in 2002

TV is ruled out.

Can we focus on genres so? It’s Always Sunny is the best sitcom ever and is still going (though even that was better 10 years ago…but didn’t exist in 2001).
Football is definitely out.

 

[horsechoker]

Independent created content is surely better now as it virtually didn't exist 20 years ago.

Now any Tom, Dick or Elvis can make a series of YouTube vids and be more entertaining than a lot of mainstream TV.

 

[Rado_N]

Indie developers are creating some beautiful works, and developing communities and playing with friends online changes everything in a positive way. Quality AAA titles can be jaw-dropping experiences even if they require less imagination.

As far as TV goes, some of the shows mentioned above aired after 2000 or at least had their best seasons after that. The latest ‘golden age of television’ might have started in the late 90’s but the bulk of it was in the last two decades.

Y’all are just getting old.

When I was a kid multiplayer gaming meant being in the same room as your mates huddled around a TV playing Goldeneye on split screen. I’m not sure playing COD or FIFA from separate locations with a headset on is really a positive move.

Can we focus on genres so? It’s Always Sunny is the best sitcom ever and is still going (though even that was better 10 years ago…but didn’t exist in 2001).
Football is definitely out.

Great comedy is certainly an interesting shout.

 

[lsd]

When I was a kid multiplayer gaming meant being in the same room as your mates huddled around a TV playing Goldeneye on split screen. I’m not sure playing COD or FIFA from separate locations with a headset on is really a positive move.



Great comedy is certainly an interesting shout.

Not really as for one thing its always sunny is rubbish . Parks and Recreation now perhaps had a shout.

However twenty years ago you had Fraser in its peak so comedy is out

 

[mariachi-19]

I would say tv now has better quality overall, but the top level isn’t as good as 20 years ago.

Anybody that thinks GoT is goat is an opinion not worth listening too.

Video games are questionable. I think a lot more shite, but unlike tv the top level now is outstanding.

despite its flaws, if Ghosts of Tsushima got released 20 years ago, people would have frothed and it was not a goat game.

uncharted 4 is probably up there as GOAT and that was 6 years ago.

 

[Bertie Wooster]

I'm pretty old school, so I don't know much about specific technological brands, etc, but I imagine that's continued to improve in terms of gaming (but I don't play them), CGI (I don't watch them), etc.

Of what I do watch / listen to, I find the standard of music and TV much worse than in the 90's / early 2000's. And I find the way sport is going - the new formats introduced and the way TV now presents it - far worse.

But I guess a lot of all that is because of my age then and now (20's to 40's), and the fact that in those 20 years things are now being very openly aimed at different demographics to me and so, obviously, they're changing them in ways that appeal far more to those demographics and far less to me.

So maybe it's not necessarily if they're any 'better'. They've just changed to reflect the changing times in those 20 years, and to appeal more (so seen as 'better') to different groups than they previously did?

 

[Oldyella]

In what rexpect? Technologically more advanced, sure, but we are in the entertainment forum. They haven’t got more entertaining. They found some abhorrent ways of extracting more money from the average punter, that’s for sure.

The question was what form of entertainment is better. The technogical advances are hard to ignore, and they give a massive advantage over older games. Look at what can be done with game like Skyrim compared to Daggerfall.

You could say gaming has lost some charm now, an FPS now with 60 players is impressive but getting 4 people in the same place for goldeneye was a lot more fun, but that's more because you are in the same room as friends playing. And yeah, the move to loot boxes and the like is abhorrent, but could you get games like last of us or god of war 20 years ago? I dunno.

Saying all that though, would take swos over ant of the iterations of fifa any day.

 

[GazTheLegend]

Some fairly innocuous points to add-

Things in 2000 were streamlined. If you liked to play FPS games ultimately you only had a couple of realistic choices. Nowadays, being AWASH with choice means things are fragmented and disparate. For instance around that time, everyone either played Halo or CS(go). Now, there's hundreds of any type of game you can play at any moment, but the choice is far too huge for masses of people to get attracted at once - with FPS alone in mind for instance, - PUBG, Fortnite, Titanfall, COD, Valheim, (still CSGO), bla bla etc etc. Similar with social media - things were 'tighter' then as in there were far, far less adverts and things were more personal - the people you had on facebook were genuinely your friends, and it was still considered too nerdy for mums and dad types to get on there and -feckING RUIN EVERYTHING-. Music was better in part because you always felt like you were discovering something. Now, the only things that sell are things that sell to 13 year olds and 40 year olds, and thus that's generally what the market caters for. You can find the things you like but if you're going to say music, you have to say 'mainstream music', which is even worse now (thought it was pretty godawful already in 2000 to be fair). Football didn't have the oil sheikh's, and felt 'cleaner.

But there's no argument that TV right now is the best it has ever been. As is the internet, as are computers, as are gaming systems. As are phones. Social contact and social media is a fecking blight on the planet, and I hesistate to call Redcafe part of that as forums are so archaic, but elements of social media -the endless irritability of fans who make impossible demands constantly feel louder, and the fervent frothing generation of clickbait by desperate dying news sources make the world seem worse even though it really shouldn't.

 

[TMDaines]

Cinema for sure, looking from an arthouse and international perspective. The digital revolution has liberated filmmakers and made creating cinema far more accessible than it has ever been. The late 80s, 90s and early 2000s were a weaker period internationally, especially in Europe, compared to the decades prior when there were many strong national industries. Many of these fell into big decline, and it is only in the last 20 years that this void has been filled again. The 2010s will come to be seen as exciting and as varied as the 60s and 70s were.

By all means, expand this to TV/streaming too give how much the lines are blurred.

 

[a_devil_inside]

The ways to listen to music, things like Spotify or Apple Music let you listen to pretty much anything you want whenever you want.

Also gone are the days from downloading some virus from things like Kazaa or Limewire.

Internet speeds, don’t have to wait ages for a picture to load up bit by bit.

 

[Neil_Buchanan]

Probably just porn maybe computer games. Tv is worse, films and music are much worse.

 

[altodevil]

Tell you what is worse - browsing the internet. It's not nearly as interesting now, websites aren't as fun.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Gaming stands out as the obvious one.

Indie music is probably another. Mainstream music is terrible these days but there's so much quality aside from the big names.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

In what rexpect? Technologically more advanced, sure, but we are in the entertainment forum. They haven’t got more entertaining. They found some abhorrent ways of extracting more money from the average punter, that’s for sure.

That's always going to happen when more money is at stake.

I agree with him. Some of the content I've played this past generation is just incredible. Games like Witcher 3, Nier Automata, God of War, Outer Wilds and Submautica, are special experiences that are in many ways possible due to the improved technology available and of course the general growth of the industry. Redlambs will be here anytime to tell us that Zelda aside, were worse off now. But I think we're in a great place or at least have been this past decade. Of course many of my favourite games like MGS3 and especially Deus Ex are from a long time ago, but overall I think this past console generation has been superb.

 

[M15 Red.]

Travelling circuses.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Can’t really comment on whether music released this year is qualitatively better than music released in 2000 but surely music as entertainment is much better because of how easier it is to access/listen to a huge variety of music? Plus algorithms etc make it much easier to discover/sample new music you’re going to enjoy.

 

[sullydnl]

With my friends who are less interested in music than they used to be, the problem now is less finding things to listen to (because Spotify takes care of that for them) and more not having a context for those bands. So they'll find something they like but they won't know if it's some nobody band or the type of buzz band they would have known all about when they were younger. A lot of the time they won't even know if it's a band from the past or a band from right now.

Whereas if you were an indie kid in the 90's say you were presented with grunge and britpop as part of scenes/aesthetics tied to specific locations, as framed by a relatively narrow selection of outlets (be that the likes of NME, MTV, radio stations, whatever). And because outlets like the NME were multi-generational, people who had started reading it in the 80's could still rely on that central narrative to present them with a narrow selection of newer bands people with their taste "should" know and listen to. That lasted until sometime in the 2000s.

Whereas I don't think that Britpop type thing could really happen now. Algorithms can present you with music you might like but they can't really sell you on specific scenes or frame specific bands as being the "important" acts of their time, on par with the greats of the past. And the nature of social media means there can be huge bubbles of music discourse that never even intrude on your awareness.

I reckon if we were drawing up a "Best of the 90's indie/alt" list there would probably be a lot more consensus than in a "best of the 2010s" list. Partly because people had access to a lot more music in the 2010s but also because bands weren't being consensus framed as the great acts of their time to the same extent that bands like Nirvana and Radiohead were, for example.

 

[OnlyTwoDaSilvas]

Can’t really comment on whether music released this year is qualitatively better than music released in 2000 but surely music as entertainment is much better because of how easier it is to access/listen to a huge variety of music? Plus algorithms etc make it much easier to discover/sample new music you’re going to enjoy.

Agreed. Access to music is infinitely better. Wish I had streaming platforms when I was in high school, as buying records was all I spent my money on. I still get nostalgic about buying records and taking a punt on stuff because it looked cool, but the current option is still much better.

Technology and software means there is a huge boom in music created by independent artists. Anyone can knock together something that sounds pretty slick and professional. When I was younger and playing in bands, it was 4 track recorders, and they sounded like arse. Indie artists are bypassing the need for record companies by recording their own stuff and getting it on all the streaming platforms themselves. Music on the radio might be naff (wasn't it always?) but what is beneath that is booming.

 

[Vidyoyo]

Cinema for sure, looking from an arthouse and international perspective. The digital revolution has liberated filmmakers and made creating cinema far more accessible than it has ever been. The late 80s, 90s and early 2000s were a weaker period internationally, especially in Europe, compared to the decades prior when there were many strong national industries. Many of these fell into big decline, and it is only in the last 20 years that this void has been filled again. The 2010s will come to be seen as exciting and as varied as the 60s and 70s were.

Are you referring specifically to classic arthouse cinema? Like Tarkovsky, Bergman, Kurosawa etc. Asking because I kinda have the exact opposite thought...

In the 1990s, you had an emergence of festivals giving a place for would-be filmmakers to show off their talents, which notably in the West included Sundance and people like Tarantino and Soderbergh. Internationally, cheaper methods of distribution led to new waves in countries like Taiwan, Hong Kong, China, etc. In Europe, you had Dogme 95 in Denmark, and also France was strong with people like Besson, Jeunet, Kassovitz breaking through (and also kinda Kieslowski).

00s became a time of a lot more independent cinema - much of it weaker but more varied - with breakthrough periods in Japan and Korea where cheap methods of distribution - so your point about digital - led to J-Horror and K-Horror. I'd also say it was a strong period for social dramas as a few big directors broke through like they hadn't done since the 1950s; people like Koreeda, Kim Ki Duk, Chang-dong, Shin'ya Tsukamoto, etc etc. Not to mention the entire Ghibli thing going on at the time.

Edit - I do totally agree that the 2010s was a great time, and feel that cinema has been the best it's ever been for the past 30 years, albeit less innovative (which I think your point might have been about).

 

[hobbers]

Gaming peaked probably a decade or so ago.

 

[hellhunter]

Gaming peaked probably a decade or so ago.

The release of StarCraft 2 in 2010 agrees.

 

[TMDaines]

Are you referring specifically to classic arthouse cinema? Like Tarkovsky, Bergman, Kurosawa etc. Asking because I kinda have the exact opposite thought...

In the 1990s, you had an emergence of festivals giving a place for would-be filmmakers to show off their talents, which notably in the West included Sundance and people like Tarantino and Soderbergh. Internationally, cheaper methods of distribution led to new waves in countries like Taiwan, Hong Kong, China, etc. In Europe, you had Dogme 95 in Denmark, and also France was strong with people like Besson, Jeunet, Kassovitz breaking through (and also kinda Kieslowski).

00s became a time of a lot more independent cinema - much of it weaker but more varied - with breakthrough periods in Japan and Korea where cheap methods of distribution - so your point about digital - led to J-Horror and K-Horror. I'd also say it was a strong period for social dramas as a few big directors broke through like they hadn't done since the 1950s; people like Koreeda, Kim Ki Duk, Chang-dong, Shin'ya Tsukamoto, etc etc. Not to mention the entire Ghibli thing going on at the time.

Edit - I do totally agree that the 2010s was a great time, and feel that cinema has been the best it's ever been for the past 30 years, albeit less innovative (which I think your point might have been about).

That’s a fair riposte. I guess my main areas of interest are Italian, German, French and Eastern European (Hungary, Poland, Czechoslovakia, Ukraine) cinema. From my perspective, all of these areas, and other European countries, had a real dip in output from the late 80s onwards. Their national cinema industries couldn’t compete with Hollywood, had financial difficulties, and continually had their talent drained. It was only when digital cinema greatly reduced the barriers to entry that things really picked up again.

I think the 90s are a pretty dreadful period for European cinema, when you compare with what has come before and after. There’s still some great films and great directors, but nowhere near the same depth and breadth.

 

[hobbers]

The release of StarCraft 2 in 2010 agrees.

Objectively the best RTS game, and now Blizzard has ditched it.

For indie devs it's probably better than it ever has been, but the major devs all gave up on any innovation about a decade ago and now all follow the money and regurgitate the same reskinned shit every year.

 

[Vidyoyo]

That’s a fair riposte. I guess my main areas of interest are Italian, German, French and Eastern European (Hungary, Poland, Czechoslovakia, Ukraine) cinema. From my perspective, all of these areas, and other European countries, had a real dip in output from the late 80s onwards. Their national cinema industries couldn’t compete with Hollywood, had financial difficulties, and continually had their talent drained. It was only when digital cinema greatly reduced the barriers to entry that things really picked up again.

I think the 90s are a pretty dreadful period for European cinema, when you compare with what has come before and after. There’s still some great films and great directors, but nowhere near the same depth and breadth.

Yeah fair points. I was thinking about Italian and German cinema actually when I was writing it as, I agree, they seemed to lose a lot during that time. I suppose it could be because people like Werner Herzog suddently started making movies outside of Germany. I'm not sure what was happening in Italian cinema really but the 90s seems very different from the preceding years - when Pasolini, Fellini, Antonioni were behemoths of the arthouse.

Poland is a far point too as I mentioned Kieslowski but he'd started making films outside of Poland by the early 90s. His most well known films are probably the three colours trilogy and none of them (to my knowledge) are set in Poland.

I guess the name gives it away

 

[anant]

TV is definitely better, but that is possibly at the expense of movies. 20 years ago GoT would have been made into a movie like LoTR.

Video games definitely better but that's mainly due to advancements in tech.

Sports production is better as well, even if one may argue sports like football have gone soft and you don't have as many hardmen as there were 20 years ago

 

[Sweet Square]

The access to music is far better today than 20 years ago. I can go from listening to Kurdish synth/folk music from 80's to the latest Lana Del Ray tune and then back into late Soviet punk music all with in a few clicks.

But in terms of music that gets made today we are firmly stuck in the long 90's.

 

[Maagge]

With my friends who are less interested in music than they used to be, the problem now is less finding things to listen to (because Spotify takes care of that for them) and more not having a context for those bands. So they'll find something they like but they won't know if it's some nobody band or the type of buzz band they would have known all about when they were younger. A lot of the time they won't even know if it's a band from the past or a band from right now.

Whereas if you were an indie kid in the 90's say you were presented with grunge and britpop as part of scenes/aesthetics tied to specific locations, as framed by a relatively narrow selection of outlets (be that the likes of NME, MTV, radio stations, whatever). And because outlets like the NME were multi-generational, people who had started reading it in the 80's could still rely on that central narrative to present them with a narrow selection of newer bands people with their taste "should" know and listen to. That lasted until sometime in the 2000s.

Whereas I don't think that Britpop type thing could really happen now. Algorithms can present you with music you might like but they can't really sell you on specific scenes or frame specific bands as being the "important" acts of their time, on par with the greats of the past. And the nature of social media means there can be huge bubbles of music discourse that never even intrude on your awareness.

I reckon if we were drawing up a "Best of the 90's indie/alt" list there would probably be a lot more consensus than in a "best of the 2010s" list. Partly because people had access to a lot more music in the 2010s but also because bands weren't being consensus framed as the great acts of their time to the same extent that bands like Nirvana and Radiohead were, for example.

Good post.

 

[Wumminator]

Interesting @Pogue Mahone mentions algorithms as being beneficial to music because I feel that actually it just keeps me in a loop of stuff building an echo chamber for me.

 

[Ibi Dreams]

Videogames are better technically now, but I don't think people enjoy them any more than they did 20 years ago. They could be deeply immersive even back then, and their poor graphics looked amazing at the time because they were the best we could do

I'd maybe argue that videogame development was more interesting and experimental back then too

 

[Gambit]

TV and Video Games are amazing now. Films and Music seem to have stalled.