Moby
Dick
Oh.The music artist Moby, he's a strange guy but his music is calming.
Oh.The music artist Moby, he's a strange guy but his music is calming.
Well... we know which 'doouble' we fancier.No Alexandra Daddario pics before anyone thinks of posting any. Should go without saying but I know what some of you are like.
So the best team doesn't always win it, which devalues it for me. Something like an undeserved red card, penalty or an injury to a key player can be the difference between winning it or crashing out.People keep on mentioning Liverpool 2005 and Chelsea 2012, but keep ignoring the other side of the coin.
There have been many teams, like Barcelona 2010, Real Madrid 2012, or Bayern 2016 who did not win the Champions League but were nevertheless unbelievably good teams who would have won the Premier League easily.
By that logic, surely the Champions League is harder to win?
Bravo.This whole idea of "undeserved" wins is rather strange. Football is a game. If you win playing by the rules, you deserved it, no ifs and buts. If a small side beats Barcelona, which 9 times out of 10 doesn't happen, does it mean they did not deserve it? This is why the CL knockout stage is played over 2 legs. If you can "fluke" your way to actually winning the CL, you can "fluke" it to win a domestic league as well. Realistically, most of the time the title is down to a 2 horse race so you end up with similar "luck" factor involved, a red card here and a penalty there making the difference. CL winners are never forgotten because they did not win their league that year, that just doesn't happen. Can anyone actually imagine us winning it this season and then our own fans complaining that it wasn't deserved because we weren't the "best" team in the competition? Seems too much even for the caf.
This, would probably trade the lost CL finals though for PL's 95*, 98, 2010, 2012I always hated the whole "Ferguson underachieved in Europe" nonsense people said and I would not trade any of his league titles for another CL win.
Not this again... why does it matter if you can’t make some irrelevant claim of being the undisputed best? The best team doesn’t always win, that’s the brilliance and excitement of sport. Only a minority of fans would give a shit about the title of ‘the best’, they’d be too busy celebrating winning a prestigious trophy.There's something about winning the European Cup without winning the league that lessens it for me. It's a knockout competition so there can be a large degree of luck involved as we saw when Porto and Liverpool won it.
The best side in the country invariably wins the league so it's hard to claim to be the best in Europe when you're not the best at home.
Obvious answer, but you wouldn't think it from some of the comments.Champions League > Premier League > Europa League > FA Cup > League Cup
I'd swap around FA Cup and Europa League. Winning it last season was nice, but it's basically a competition you win when you're not good enough to be advancing to the latter stages of a much better competition. The FA Cup, while not exactly as prestigious as the PL, nevertheless has a fairly immense history behind it and generally involves competing against the country's best domestic sides...or the minnows who've been the countries best domestic sides.Champions League > Premier League > Europa League > FA Cup > League Cup
I've always felt this way, it's not a popular opinion - but it doesn't feel right to call yourself the champions of Europe if you're not the champions of your own league at the same time.There's something about winning the European Cup without winning the league that lessens it for me. It's a knockout competition so there can be a large degree of luck involved as we saw when Porto and Liverpool won it.
The best side in the country invariably wins the league so it's hard to claim to be the best in Europe when you're not the best at home.
The word deserve is a tricky one. I think the obsession with quality with which the win was achieved is down to the desire for long term dominance. Take for example our team in 2007 and Chelsea in 2012. We were desperately unlucky with the injuries and how much the league run took from us and ended up falling short to AC Milan. We did not win the CL but anyone could see that team was destined for greatness. The league form and our level of performance in the big games which is the number one indicator of quality was too high that it was inevitable we will achieve more substantial success and sure enough we went on to have quite the run domestically and in Europe. Chelsea on the other hand did actually win the CL but again you knew that that was it. Their quality level was simply far from the best teams so you knew they had no chance playing with that team to establish a strong European pedigree like we did. That's the thing with flukes, they don't happen often.This whole idea of "undeserved" wins is rather strange. Football is a game. If you win playing by the rules, you deserved it, no ifs and buts. If a small side beats Barcelona, which 9 times out of 10 doesn't happen, does it mean they did not deserve it? This is why the CL knockout stage is played over 2 legs. If you can "fluke" your way to actually winning the CL, you can "fluke" it to win a domestic league as well. Realistically, most of the time the title is down to a 2 horse race so you end up with similar "luck" factor involved, a red card here and a penalty there making the difference. CL winners are never forgotten because they did not win their league that year, that just doesn't happen. Can anyone actually imagine us winning it this season and then our own fans complaining that it wasn't deserved because we weren't the "best" team in the competition? Seems too much even for the caf.
I think that's a really valid point. I've long felt that this inwards mentality in English football did not help English teams and the England fans throughout history. But I don't think it is necessarily insane as you claim. Part of the reason the league is so successful and attractive worldwide is that very mentality. The tribal nature in English football means fans get their competitive fix on a regular basis. So whereas I am jealous of the likes of Milan and Real boasting the numbers they do and I do think that a change in mentality from English clubs might help get close to them, I wouldn't give up just yet the tribalism of English football that contributes to treating the league as the number one trophy.Ask any supporter of a continental European team that question and he would declare you insane for even asking that. Why are Brits so focused on the League?
Must have something to do with their British “we don’t need them” arrogance
Mostly agree, except the bolded ones, slightly.This whole idea of "undeserved" wins is rather strange. Football is a game. If you win playing by the rules, you deserved it, no ifs and buts. If a small side beats Barcelona, which 9 times out of 10 doesn't happen, does it mean they did not deserve it? This is why the CL knockout stage is played over 2 legs. If you can "fluke" your way to actually winning the CL, you can "fluke" it to win a domestic league as well. Realistically, most of the time the title is down to a 2 horse race so you end up with similar "luck" factor involved, a red card here and a penalty there making the difference. CL winners are never forgotten because they did not win their league that year, that just doesn't happen. Can anyone actually imagine us winning it this season and then our own fans complaining that it wasn't deserved because we weren't the "best" team in the competition? Seems too much even for the caf.
To be fair I think that Fergie himself would trade a few of his league titles for another CL win. He admitted himself that one of his biggest regrets was not winning more CL titles.I always hated the whole "Ferguson underachieved in Europe" nonsense people said and I would not trade any of his league titles for another CL win.
His record of winning it is amazing enough already, but ya I suppose by his high-cheat-code standard for him, it's underachieved.I always hated the whole "Ferguson underachieved in Europe" nonsense people said and I would not trade any of his league titles for another CL win.
FA Cup is always bigger than the League Cup. Champions League vs EPL is a different story. For example, most will put the Champions League as the biggest trophy to win, however I don't think anyone would argue that when Liverpool last won the Champions League and finished 5th (58 points and tied with Bolton) in the league that they had a better season than Chelsea (95 points). So the only way that I can honestly say that we can have bragging rights over City in this scenario is if we beat them along the way to hoisting the Champions League. But even that would depend on us also winning the FA Cup...So, as unbiased as you can be, which double do you think would carry the most kudos this season (or any season for that matter)....City winning the PL and League Cup or us winning the CL and FA Cup ?
Both are still very much on !!!
I think it all depends on the situation. A team like Liverpool who hasn't won the EPL since Macaulay Culkin was abandoned by his parents at Christmas would definitely trade the Champions League for an EPL title. However, a team like City or Arsenal who have never won the Champions League would take that over an EPL title in a heartbeat...I disagree , PL over CL.
Not what again? Somebody having a different opinion to yours? Don't be such a tit.Not this again... why does it matter if you can’t make some irrelevant claim of being the undisputed best? The best team doesn’t always win, that’s the brilliance and excitement of sport. Only a minority of fans would give a shit about the title of ‘the best’, they’d be too busy celebrating winning a prestigious trophy.
I don’t believe I called your opinion irrelevant. If it was irrelevant, I’d not have bothered responding. What I called irrelevant was the idea that you need to be ‘the best’ to properly validate a champions league win. I don’t understand why you’re resorting to personal attacks, I have no fecking idea frankly why you’re so offended by my post, or how you can deduce that I wish to appear clever on an Internet forum (guilty actually... I hardly wanna appear stupid do I?) in an effort to validate my existence. Again, needlessly hostile and off topic. Perhaps my comment was slightly aggressive but you’ve returned fire about tenfold which is rather hypocritical.Not what again? Somebody having a different opinion to yours? Don't be such a tit.
Where on earth have I said I wouldn't celebrate a Champions League win? I'd obviously be bloody delighted with it as would every other United fan.
I understand that its very important for you to appear clever and superior on an internet forum. Maybe that gives you some sort of validation you miss in day to day life and so, you belittle people's posts and call their opinions irrelevant.
But if you took a second to consider the context of the post and the question asked in the thread, you'd realise this was a "which would you prefer" question. Not one person has said they wouldn't like to win a Championship League this season - some have simply said they would prefer the other option offered and given reasons to explain why.
A small minority of posters on this forum seem more interested in scoring points and landing cheap digs than engaging in actual conversation. It would be more annoying if they were better at it but it's a shame all the same.