Be nice to have a player like Grealish on our bench. You look at City and they have Mahrez, Jesus and co. to bring on, but do you think we will spend 50 plus million on a squad player? Maybe we have to!
What's your midfield trio next season?
- Thread starter jamesjimmybyrondean
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Don't know if this would work but it's a new take compared to what others have said. I think you might upset people for forsaking Sancho
Three at the back is certianly somethimg Ole could revert to at times like we've seen at times this season, but its clear he's a 4231/4411 manager. That's what he grew up with. He wants to stick to the 'United way', which is having flying wingers on each side. The thought of having Sancho and Rashford on those wings is very exciting.
--- Pogba-- Fred
--------- Bruno
We need to keep Fred on the left, he has played well there and he's on his natural left foot. Pogba played very well for France in the World Cup on the right, it allow him to burst forward with pace on his natural right foot. We also makes him less predictable as he will not be cutting back most of the time. Plus he will have AWB covering him on that flank, when he doesn't run back in time.
--------- Bruno
We need to keep Fred on the left, he has played well there and he's on his natural left foot. Pogba played very well for France in the World Cup on the right, it allow him to burst forward with pace on his natural right foot. We also makes him less predictable as he will not be cutting back most of the time. Plus he will have AWB covering him on that flank, when he doesn't run back in time.
Good watch!
Mate facts are irrelevant when it comes to discussing Pogba.
Agreed. Partner Pogba with AWB on the right-er side of our lineup. Balance.
Pogba provides more attacking to AWB who in turn provides the defensive security needed.
Yeah I agree. Most games it should be fine playing 4231 with both of them and then 352 in the big games. Dont think we would get away with playing 4231 with Sancho, Pogba, Rashford, Martial and Bruno in the side against teams like Liverpool or City.
This defensive security excuses is bit non-sense to me. We are likely to dominate or keep the possession against outside top team. More creativity the better it is against the low block rather than playing safe by having a balance XI. While against the top sides we have seen how Ole being flexible with his tactic & formation as he switched it to 5 at the back.
Fred-Pogba pivot with Bruno in advanced role should still be fine.
Fred-Pogba pivot with Bruno in advanced role should still be fine.
Not difficult to understand at all.
I think the issue is our fans are blinded by Fifa/FM/Social media and believe Pogba to be world class without any footballing evidence to back that up whatsoever.
Pogba's a divided figure, but the over hype for him is just that, hype.
On form and application, Pogba does not start for us until he earns the right to do so
Agreed. Bruno's a hard worker in the middle, Shaw / AWB are very defensively minded.
With a better, more pro-active CB than Lindelof in there (Maybe Bailly if he can stay fit / seek counselling) that team is as good as anyone in their day.
I love people who get involved in conversations without reading the whole thing.
The fans who are "blinded by Fifa/FM/Social media and believe Pogba to be world class" merely pointed out that Pogba was used in the deeper role this season. Regardless of whether people think he should go back into the team or not is irrelevant, as ultimately Ole will have the final decision.
Hopefully that's not too difficult to understand.
Wow.
Did someone spit in your cornflakes?
Its plain obvious Ole will have final say, it's for us fans to debate and have opinions. If everything was as simple as "Ole is manager and Woodward is chairman etc" then there would be no need for this forum to even exist, fans are allowed opinions, thats one of the best things about being a football fan.
I stand by what i said - fans are extremely divided on Pogba and the bulk hype him without warrant. He has been used deep, he's also been used as a CM and further forward. He plays where he has to based on injuries etc. He's nowhere near as competent playing as a DM as what we have there. He's 4th choice for DM.
I agree that we should have a debate. I value everyone's opinion. However, you've come into the thread like billy big bollocks saying fans are "blinded by Fifa/FM/Social media and believe Pogba to be world class" in response to something that has nothing to do with what the initial point was, which was where Pogba played at the start of the season.
You thinking he's 4th DM choice is fine. As I said before, ultimately, Ole will get the final say.
I have absolutely no doubt if Pogba stays he would be utilised in a deeper role and would be mainstay there, Pogba at United never had the luxury of playing with competent no 10 I am quite looking forward to it add somebody creative at right wing we should be in for some exciting times ahead.
100% this.
If fans are allowed to have their opinions, why did you quoted "our fans are blinded by Fifa/FM/Social media"? Being different opinion to yours doesn't mean fans are blinded by such a things. Those fans that you specifically called blinded by Fifa/FM/Social are actually talking about fact of what happened.
....Bruno...
Fred....Pogba
I like the idea of Pogba playing on the right of the pivot(like in France) where a very defensively solid AWB is close by. I think if we replace Lindelof with a better defender and play Pogba on the right pivot we would be solid defensively
Fred....Pogba
I like the idea of Pogba playing on the right of the pivot(like in France) where a very defensively solid AWB is close by. I think if we replace Lindelof with a better defender and play Pogba on the right pivot we would be solid defensively
I don't want to get too sucked up with France because they are an international team, and the roles of Matuidi and Kante in the team has not been mentioned, but I don't see how a Pogba-Fred partnership is ever going to work. Fred could be classified as a defensive midfielder, but he's always been at his best next to another defensive midfielder. He puts himself about, wins a lot of tackles and loose balls, but he is not very strong in duels, not very disciplined in defense, tends to charge in, and is very easy to dribble past - he is no Herrera or Kante, he needs defensive cover. Pogba could probably do it, but you'd be restricting one of the best playmakers in Europe to a role of covering for Fred. It would be like England's Scholes-Gerrard-Lampard combo, packing in central midfielders for the sake of it and ignoring balance. Fred needs a more defensive midfielder next to him, and so does Pogba.
I think Bruno and Pogba are good enough that Fred can be sacrificed for solidity in the middle of the park, just like England should have sacrificed one of their trio. We should bring in a holding midfielder who is capable of holding next to any other midfielders. I don't think Matic and McTominay should even be in the conversation.
In my Football Manager save - Tonali, Pogba and Bruno are untouchable. We all know that FM is real so I'm going to vote for that trio.
This is a good point. Maybe without the need to get forward quite so much he'd have no problem being disciplined. He's been trying to do it all for the last 3 years since we depend on him to run the entire show.
If Pogba wants to stay then he'll obviously be a major influence in our central base alongside Bruno and likely another major new recruit.
Our we then presuming Fred and McTomminay to be rotation players ?
Our we then presuming Fred and McTomminay to be rotation players ?
Bring in a pure defensive midfielder if Pogba stays/signs a new contract and we’re sorted in midfield going forward.
Pogba, Fernandes, McTominay, Fred, Matic, Garner and a quality new pure defensive midfielder coming in is a wealth of talent and very balanced across the board so tactically very flexible.
Pogba, Fernandes, McTominay, Fred, Matic, Garner and a quality new pure defensive midfielder coming in is a wealth of talent and very balanced across the board so tactically very flexible.
Pogba, Fred and Bruno on the top of their game would be excellent.
That’s actually Man Utd.
That’s actually Man Utd.
Exactly. I don't get why everyone is so keen to get more cm and dms. Unless we are buying a young prospect or we have to replace someone we've lost, we should focus on other areas
Because we don't have a DM. Matic is probably the only one, but he's not reliable.
Matic's role will be limited like it has been this season. Fred, pogba and bruno will be our starters with Scott M, Andreas P and matic as back ups. That's six midfielders. Lingard and Mata can also play as backup for the most advanced midfield role. That's plenty of options. No other team in the league can boast that level of depth in the middle. We should focus on the other areas where we are lacking. Like right wing/foward. Left wing back up can also be upgraded as can right Centre back
If Pogba stays, would be amazing if we got a pure DM like Ndidi. Pogba did great at the WC beside Kanté, I could see that kind of duo here, and Bruno ahead to supply the front 3 of presumably Rashford, Martial and Sancho.
Sancho
Ndidi
That would be a already a perfect window.
Sancho
Ndidi
That would be a already a perfect window.
IF Pogba stays and we don'y sign an established midfielder.
Pogba - Bruno
--------- Fred
Pogba - Bruno
--------- Fred
Quality over quantity. If we keep Pogba and get Grealsh I'd say Bruno, Pogba, Fred, Mctominay, Grealish, Matic and Mata is both quality and quantity. Also Chelsea has that level of depth
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Ok that's a slightly different angle to those clamouring for a defense midfielder. Do you think grealish would come here and happily sit on the bench? I would happily swap Andreas p and or mata for grealish if those were the choices
At the moment it’s Bruno-Fred-Mcsauce for me. Pogba doesn’t walk straight back in the team. But being realistic and when the time comes he will take Mcsauce’s place but just hope we are balanced with Pogba and Bruno both playing.
The France National team is pretty much just reference to tell you that we have more than 2 managers who played him in there. I don't need to remind you this like 10x right?
You are the only person who thinks Fred is no Herrera or Kante when there were thread of the comparison between these three players.
Scholes-Gerrard-Lampard? You love random comparison that has no similarity aye. You are the only person who don't see Fred to be similar as Herrera but you see similarity of Fred in Gerrard.Your comparison is off the chart which clearly show that you are still in lacking of understanding how Fred plays. I think Pogba-Fred duo in pivot role is good enough. In fact is that we are going to play against lesser team or low block more often which means having more creativity in the XI is more important. You also need to realise that Ole tends to change his formation to 5 defenders against top opposition team which also should cover your worry about the balance. Signing holding midfielder is just a preparation for Matic's replacement, it doesn't mean it's a priority signing since we have other priority that we need to sort out.
Fred is no Herrera or Kante apart from having a great engine like them. They are more defensively astute midfielders than him, more disciplined and stronger in the tackle.The France National team is pretty much just reference to tell you that we have more than 2 managers who played him in there. I don't need to remind you this like 10x right?
You are the only person who thinks Fred is no Herrera or Kante when there were thread of the comparison between these three players.
Your comparison is off the chart which clearly show that you are still in lacking of understanding how Fred plays. I think Pogba-Fred duo in pivot role is good enough. In fact is that we are going to play against lesser team or low block more often which means having more creativity in the XI is more important. You also need to realise that Ole tends to change his formation to 5 defenders against top opposition team which also should cover your worry about the balance. Signing holding midfielder is just a preparation for Matic's replacement, it doesn't mean it's a priority signing since we have other priority that we need to sort out.
I never compared Fred to Gerrard, just made a reference to England's use of Gerrard and Lampard, while ignoring the need for balance. There are not many teams in the world that doesn't play with at least one defensively astute midfielder. Every team also have easier games, but they still recognize the need for a defensive midfielder. I'd expect Bruno, Pogba and the front three to provide enough creavitity that Fred won't be needed at the base of midfield. A better defensive midfielder is needed to allow the attackers to do their job. How does it benefit the team when Bruno and Pogba are constantly defending and the defenders are repeatedly under pressure because Fred is regularly beaten?
I think a new DM will define next season. Otherwise, it would just be another season of chopping the team and trying out new formations in a bid to find a balanced one. If Ole has a XI capable of beating any team, he wouldn't have to change formations for big games anymore, and I think that is what any manager would want - stability. I don't see how he is going to get that with Fred at the main DM.
You've listed options, but none of them are particularly quality options.
Out of your list you can dismiss both Lingard and Mata as having any impact of note in our central midfield area. Periera can be considered lucky if he is used as a back up and there's always going to be debate over Pogba's future. Matic is good for rotation for another season, so we only really have Fred, McTom, Bruno and maybe Pogba as quality options across our entire central midfield. Thats not enough.
Even if Pogba stays, we need to sign in Midfield. If we continue relying on Periera deep and overplay Matic and have injuries, we will never make that push forward. We simply have to recruit quality throughout the squad. 2 midfielders are required, a natural DM and also a more creative player. We would then have 6 (or 5 if Pogba leaves) quality players for 3 positions. Thats what we need
I agree, wide right is an issue and we can certainly address that as well. Central midfield is so important, we cannot progress unless this area of the pitch is upgraded significantly
Your comparison of Lamp-Steve-Scholes is off the chart. The three of them are not even defensive midfield which is why no balance.
You even admitted it that Fred can be a defensive midfield. Him being capable to be defensive mid is the one that makes the difference between the comparison, the guy has asset to be one. He has the same average per game of tackles & interception as Kante this season. In the summary of their engine, their role & their average number of defensive work, all of these led to the comparison between two of them.
Your opinion is merely just an opinion what you want to see & what you don’t want to see without something to back it up. When you made an example of comparison you used something has no similarity.
Fred also can't play as holding midfield is a bit non sense. In fact, let me tell you that Pep wanted to sign him when he knew Fernandinho's leg is about to gone and he needed to find a replacement, and Fred was his target before Rodri.
You've been misrepresenting me for a while now. If you can't see while I made reference to England's use of their center midfielders, then I really can't help you.
Fred can be classified as a defensive midfielder, yes, Rashford can be classified as a striker too but it doesn't mean he doesn't have positions or roles where he is a lot better. Fred probably completes the same amount of tackles as Kante, I haven't checked, but I'm able to see that the latter is a lot more accomplished defensively and gets the better of his man more often than not, unlike Fred. Stats would probably show that too. It's what I've seen, and everything I've posted conciously has been my opinion. It's the same for you and for most posters in this forum. Pogba has also been compared to Viera, but it doesn't mean we should start using him that way.
About Guardiola, no one can tell. Maybe he wanted to pair Fred with Fernandinho, or maybe he figured out that Fred is no Fernandinho and let us have a go instead. I'm not privy to such info, but Fred usually played with another DM at Shahktar, that's as much as I know.
I will reiterate that I don't see how Fred is going to fit in a two with Pogba. I look at the player, not the ones he's been compared to. It's my opinion, has always been. Luckily we will have the resumption of this season till the end to check out every possible combo, and I'd trust the coaching team to make sure the chosen combo is not one that can be figured out quickly going into next season.
Fred can offer balance next to Pogba, while the England midfield has no balance. Fred is capable to do the job as I mentioned it to you before how similar Fred & Kante in the way how both payers have great engine/stamina as well as similarity in their average per game of tackles & interception. Misrepresenting is more like your excuse word just to defend your opinion.
Another non-sense comparison you just made. Just because Rashford is like that doesn't mean other player are in the same case. Roy Keane can be classified as box to box originally and converted into holding midfielder at United to get the best out of Scholes & the team, an example of midfielder who can play in both box to box & holding midfielder equally good. Same goes to Fred, how the manager been playing him in both holding midfielder & also box to box role.
Why can't you understand that Fred played with another DM at Shahktar because they have no other player that can do Pogba's job. Fred is their best passer in midfield, so they have to find away to balance whatever they got. At United Pogba is the better passer than Fred, this means United can utilise Fred's defensive assets & engine to play next to Pogba.
No one can tell? Pep is playing 433 with Fernandinho as holding, Silva & KDB for the other two. Come on, you really believe that Fred was targeted by Pep to replace David Silva's spot/role?I'm sorry to say this but after you came out with ridiculous excuse of your reason regarding Pep wanted Fred, I come out into conclusion that I can't make this conversation longer. Anyone can see that Pep wanted to sign him to play that holding midfield role, if you can't see it then you can't see what Fred is capable of and I ain't waste my time any longer to tell you.
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Geuinely surprised people still wanting Pogba to stay. We dotn know what goes on inside the club, but from the outside at least I would be glad to see the back of him for a decent fee. Of course in the current predicament a decent fee may be a sticking point.
I think Fred has had a good season, been a bit overhyped in all honesty but he was certainly finishing the season strongly. I feel McTominay was doing well before his injury....again being homegrown and at the time in a team performing diabolically, think he has been a bit overhyped too personally.
The biggest surprise was the re-ermergence of Matic the last month or so, a lot of people are forgetting him it seems, he did look finished.
My conclusion really is nobody has truly staked a claim to be a guranteed started in our midfielder. I would be happy to sell Pogba to fund one or two purchases in central midfield as competition at least for our other three midfielders.
As for who, not really sure. I really like Grealish as a footballer, think his ability is outstanding and he shoul dbe in the England squad on ability and performances this season........but, he really does seem a bit on a knob head doesnt he and also importantly, where does he actually fit in to our side in a three man midfield on the left behind Fernandes? Looks great possession wise and going forward, they do both work hard, but defensively a bit concerning.
Although both not particularly big or experienced. The Italian pair Barella and Tonali, either of them would be ideal for me. Have a bit of everything, box to box, agrresive, intelligent, very good technically. Always been a big fan of Ascacibar as well, he had the unfortunate spitting incident and moved to Hertha Berlin, really think he should be playing for a bigger club. Not seen much French football but seem to be a few young stars ermerging in the middle for certain clubs. Then of course there is jude Bellingham and also some youngster at Villa as well, so plenty of young talent out there in the middle currently, I do feel its an area we need to invest in and if we are able to sell Pogba, its already funded
I think Fred has had a good season, been a bit overhyped in all honesty but he was certainly finishing the season strongly. I feel McTominay was doing well before his injury....again being homegrown and at the time in a team performing diabolically, think he has been a bit overhyped too personally.
The biggest surprise was the re-ermergence of Matic the last month or so, a lot of people are forgetting him it seems, he did look finished.
My conclusion really is nobody has truly staked a claim to be a guranteed started in our midfielder. I would be happy to sell Pogba to fund one or two purchases in central midfield as competition at least for our other three midfielders.
As for who, not really sure. I really like Grealish as a footballer, think his ability is outstanding and he shoul dbe in the England squad on ability and performances this season........but, he really does seem a bit on a knob head doesnt he and also importantly, where does he actually fit in to our side in a three man midfield on the left behind Fernandes? Looks great possession wise and going forward, they do both work hard, but defensively a bit concerning.
Although both not particularly big or experienced. The Italian pair Barella and Tonali, either of them would be ideal for me. Have a bit of everything, box to box, agrresive, intelligent, very good technically. Always been a big fan of Ascacibar as well, he had the unfortunate spitting incident and moved to Hertha Berlin, really think he should be playing for a bigger club. Not seen much French football but seem to be a few young stars ermerging in the middle for certain clubs. Then of course there is jude Bellingham and also some youngster at Villa as well, so plenty of young talent out there in the middle currently, I do feel its an area we need to invest in and if we are able to sell Pogba, its already funded
Could do with a Camavinga thread now that Bouhfasi has linked us to him, just had a look and no thread in the transfer section on him