Where does Klopp v Pep rank on a list of the greatest Premier League manager rivalries?

[adexkola]

Anyways, in terms of quality football, few rivalries have these kinds of games in recent years:

3-1 at Anfield in 2019-20
2-1 at the Etihad in 2017-18
1-4 at Anfield in 2019-20
4-3 at Anfield in 2017-18
2-2 at Anfield in 2022-23
4-1 at the Etihad in 2022-23
1-1 at the Etihad in 2023-24
1-1 at Anfield in 2023-24

Beyond the scorelines, it was fascinating to watch their styles clash and evolve in response to one another.

 

[Moby]

It's good to see some people in sport maturing enough to discard tribal notions like rivalries. Should be a thing of the past.

 

[VeevaVee]

Not enough aggro between them for me

 

[Bocca9978]

There's no rivalry between these two. They both love each other, it's disgusting. No passion or fight.

 

[Giggsy13]

Wenger vs Sir Alex still tops it. There was an actual hatred between the two and the clubs at their peak that doesn’t exist between the man crush and bromance of Pep and Klopp.

 

[thisisnottaken1]

They suck each other off too much for it to be considered a proper rivalry.

 

[Gazautd18]

Rivalry

 

[Scandi Red]

I feel that they both reached an unspoken, mutual agreement to jerk each other off in the media. It's a win-win-win situation.

1. No extra pressure for them and the players.

2. They both come across as more mature and likeable.

3. They both have an important "rival" voice constantly hyping them up and cementing their legacy.

Boring as shit though.

 

[adexkola]

This notion of a rivalry needing hatred only exists where the content on the pitch is crap and something else is needed to elevate the matches to another sphere.

If United v Liverpool wasn't a rivalry with this hatred bollocks it wouldn't be watched much, seeing most of the matches you see are dull stalemates or beatings by 1 side. When was the last time the fixture had 2 top football sides going at it, akin to the El Classicos of Messi and Ronaldo?

 

[Scandi Red]

This notion of a rivalry needing hatred

A rivalry doesn't need hatred, but it certainly elevates the experience for the spectator.

 

[adexkola]

A rivalry doesn't need hatred, but it certainly elevates the experience for the spectator.

Eh.

It's like toppings on an ice cream. Which is why Arsenal v United from '98 to '05 are in the conversation. There was the hatred and off field rah rah, but even if you remove that, the football from both sides was top notch.

 

[SER19]

Unless klopp pips them dramatically this season, nowhere really. citys recent spell of dominance is all just farcical and will hopefully be exposed as such. A blight on football in england and there are literally hundreds of pundits and analysts and journalists all lazily part of it.

 

[Scandi Red]

Eh.

It's like toppings on an ice cream. Which is why Arsenal v United from '98 to '05 are in the conversation. There was the hatred and off field rah rah, but even if you remove that, the football from both sides was top notch.

If I have to choose between good football and trash talk/mind games, then I pick the former obviously. But ideally I want both.

Pep vs Klopp is as vanilla as it gets. Actually, it's worse than that. Vanilla is an acceptable taste after all. Pep vs Klopp is just a tasteless yet sickening goo.

 

[tomaldinho1]

Not sure re 'rivalry'. City have spent double what they have and basically won the league every year bar Conte and Pool's single title. They also literally just say good stuff about each other, trying to out 'nice' each other.

City are such a unique club to judge, serial cheats and backed by a country - if Arsenal or Pool do pip them to the title it's pretty appalling when you think of the resources at each club individually.

 

[The Corinthian]

This grand rivalry lasted 3 seasons in 10 years.

Liverpool finished twice, two times and first once.

Pales in comparison to us and Arsenal in the SAF/Wenger years.

 

[thisisnottaken1]

This grand rivalry lasted 3 seasons in 10 years.

Liverpool finished twice, two times and first once.

Pales in comparison to us and Arsenal in the SAF/Wenger years.

Or to us and Chelsea in the SAF/Mourinho years, and also to Chelsea and Arsenal (and later us and Arsenal again) with the Mourinho/Wenger years (2004-2007, 2013-2015, and 2016-2018).

Hell, the “rivalry” between Guardiola and Klopp isn’t even Guardiola’s biggest rivalry. His rivalry with Mourinho, when the Portuguese was manager of Inter Milan and then of Real Madrid, was way fiercer.

 

[Jund]

Define "rivalry": Pep Guardiola insists "Liverpool are NOT failures".

 

[thisisnottaken1]

Define "rivalry": Pep Guardiola insists "Liverpool are NOT failures".

Exactly. Once again, it’s not even a fecking rivalry. There’s way too much respect. The media has a love in with both Liverpool and Manchester City, so they made up this fake rivalry between the two.

 

[Reapersoul20]

About 27th

 

[diarm]

5th, after:

Fergie - Wenger
Fergie - Jose
Jose - Wenger
Fergie - Dalglish

But ahead of:

Fergie - Keegan
Tuchel - Conte
Fergie - Rafa

 

[devaneios]

Does anyone really care about Klopp v Pep outside of those teams. Supposed rivalries with saf were always hyped up. Does anyone ever think of a pep klopp rivalry.

I really doubt anyone outside of United or the other manager's team cared about Ferguson's rivalries either, to be fair.

 

[BorisManUtd]

Mourinho vs Wenger is unusual in that Mourinho only lost twice to Wenger in his entire career I think - one was Community Shield and the other 2-0 loss at Emirates with United toward the end of that season when he was preparing for EL final so it was mostly meaningless basically. Don't think he lost any other game to Wenger.

 

[redmanx]

I have no opinion regarding this, but I do think Pep is the better manager of the two, as his record clearly shows. How ever it really riles me when supposedly "knowledgable" journalists and pundits fawn all over Klopp as if he were the Messiah; some even claim Klopp is a better manager not only than Pep but also Sir Alex! The latest utter crap I read today was "written" by Ian Ladyman who claimed Klopp is a better manager than Liverpool legends Bill Shankley and Bob Paisley! Klopps list of honours as Liverpool manager is -
UEFA Champions League (2018/19)
UEFA Super Cup (2019)
FIFA Club World Cup (2019)
Premier League (2019/20)
Carabao Cup (2021/22)
FA Cup (2021/22)
A very good haul, but Bob Paisley won 6 First Division titles, 3 European Cups, 1 EUFA Cup, 1 EUFA Super Cup, 1 Intercontintal Cup, 3 League Cups and 6 Charity Shields.
Bill Shankley not only rebuilt Liverpool in the same way Sir Matt rebuilt United, he won the Second Division, 3 First Divisions, 2 FA Cups, 1 EUFA Cup and 3 Charity Shields.

I am really sick of hearing/reading about how wonderful Klopp is by pundits and reporters who clearly think he is Gods gift to management, the same pundits etc who think Liverpool FC is Gods gift to football.
Klopp was at Liverpool for 5 years and did very well, but Sir Alex Ferguson, Sir Matt Busby, Pep Guardiola, Bill Shankley and Bob Paisley all won trophies over several years; Klopp simply doesnt compare to them.

 

[Pascal Quiff]

I have no opinion regarding this, but I do think Pep is the better manager of the two, as his record clearly shows. How ever it really riles me when supposedly "knowledgable" journalists and pundits fawn all over Klopp as if he were the Messiah; some even claim Klopp is a better manager not only than Pep but also Sir Alex! The latest utter crap I read today was "written" by Ian Ladyman who claimed Klopp is a better manager than Liverpool legends Bill Shankley and Bob Paisley! Klopps list of honours as Liverpool manager is -
UEFA Champions League (2018/19)
UEFA Super Cup (2019)
FIFA Club World Cup (2019)
Premier League (2019/20)
Carabao Cup (2021/22)
FA Cup (2021/22)
A very good haul, but Bob Paisley won 6 First Division titles, 3 European Cups, 1 EUFA Cup, 1 EUFA Super Cup, 1 Intercontintal Cup, 3 League Cups and 6 Charity Shields.
Bill Shankley not only rebuilt Liverpool in the same way Sir Matt rebuilt United, he won the Second Division, 3 First Divisions, 2 FA Cups, 1 EUFA Cup and 3 Charity Shields.

I am really sick of hearing/reading about how wonderful Klopp is by pundits and reporters who clearly think he is Gods gift to management, the same pundits etc who think Liverpool FC is Gods gift to football.
Klopp was at Liverpool for 5 years and did very well, but Sir Alex Ferguson, Sir Matt Busby, Pep Guardiola, Bill Shankley and Bob Paisley all won trophies over several years; Klopp simply doesnt compare to them.

Well that certainly looks like an opinion Mr Redmanx

 

[njred]

Obviously the thread shouldn’t have been started since everyone on here dismisses it as a rivalry.

 

[redmanx]

Well that certainly looks like an opinion Mr Redmanx

I meant I have no opinion regarding Klopp and Peps "rivalry"

 

[redmanx]

I really doubt anyone outside of United or the other manager's team cared about Ferguson's rivalries either, to be fair.

I dont think about either except in relation to United, but I do get annoyed when some people claim Klopp and Pep are better managers than Sir Alex. Pep may one day eclipse SAFs trophy haul but Klopp wont get anywhere near it.

 

[Ludens the Red]

Anyways, in terms of quality football, few rivalries have these kinds of games in recent years:

3-1 at Anfield in 2019-20
2-1 at the Etihad in 2017-18
1-4 at Anfield in 2019-20
4-3 at Anfield in 2017-18
2-2 at Anfield in 2022-23
4-1 at the Etihad in 2022-23
1-1 at the Etihad in 2023-24
1-1 at Anfield in 2023-24

Beyond the scorelines, it was fascinating to watch their styles clash and evolve in response to one another.

I think you’re over rating their matches a tad.
i mean take that 1-4 at Anfield. Most of city’s goals were from massive mistakes iirc.
The 4-1 last season was against 5th place Liverpool and was a non contest.
I actually don’t think their matches have been that memorable though I also think they’ve been poorly timed with so few coming at the crunch end of the season. And generally city are absolutely useless at Anfield looking a shell of the side they normally are.

 

[OverratedOpinion]

There has only ever been 1 great Premier League rivelry which was Sir Alex against Wenger.

Sir Alex against Mourinho wasn't as Mourinho was sacked less than a year after Sir Alex coming back to take the lead on him.

Sir Alex against Keegan was a rivalry for a few months which had some fun matches and the memorable press conference.

Klopp against Pep has been interesting at times but ultimately Pep has dominated the era too much for it to be viewed as a rivalry. Pep has never gone to sleep at night worrying about Klopp, worried about COVID for a couple of months then went back to winning easily.

 

[Charlie Foley]

I really doubt anyone outside of United or the other manager's team cared about Ferguson's rivalries either, to be fair.

They made a tv show about it on Sky One about 20 years ago

 

[Withnail]

It's not a rivalry. There's no fire and no passion. The managers and players are all way too friendly with each other. Nobody's getting in anyone's else's head or trying to unsettle the other side. It's boring and the we're all friends bit is slightly nauseating.

 

[Rnd898]

5th, after:

Fergie - Wenger
Fergie - Jose
Jose - Wenger
Fergie - Dalglish

But ahead of:

Fergie - Keegan
Tuchel - Conte
Fergie - Rafa

No room for Jose - Rafa ?

 

[Nevilles.Wear.Prada]

One is winning 4th title in a row the other is fecking off with 1 title in 9 years. How is that even comparable.

 

[Dannn411]

In terms of sheer on-pitch quality, its top 2. But in terms of overall rivalry (On-pitch plus off-pitch), its not a patch on Fergie v Wenger or Fergie v Jose or Wenger v Jose.

Fergie vs Wenger remains THE ultimate PL rivalry. Between 1998 and 2005, everything stopped when United played Arsenal. It was that big a game. Only thing that i've seen that is comparable since then is El Clasico in the peak of the Messi vs Ronaldo era.

 

[el_loco_bielsa]

The quality on display in the head to head games is arguably up there with the best ever seen in the game, mostly due to klopp’s superhuman ability to even the odds against a vastly superior opponent without having to resort to parking the bus.

The rivalry wasn’t much of a rivalry, because it was the equivalent of Jeff Bezos at Amazon taking on the corner shop to see who could generate more profit.

 

[diarm]

No room for Jose - Rafa ?

Yeah good shout. He should be on the list, but down with Tuchel and Conte as only one of them win titles.

 

[adexkola]

I think you’re over rating their matches a tad.
i mean take that 1-4 at Anfield. Most of city’s goals were from massive mistakes iirc.
The 4-1 last season was against 5th place Liverpool and was a non contest.
I actually don’t think their matches have been that memorable though I also think they’ve been poorly timed with so few coming at the crunch end of the season. And generally city are absolutely useless at Anfield looking a shell of the side they normally are.

I'm not

It's not just about the goals, it's about the quality of general play. The ability of Liverpool to fluster City's possession play. The ability of City to play through Liverpool's ferocious press. Since I've started watching football, only peak El Classico with Messi and Ronaldo had a higher level of football played on a consistent basis. And I'm conceding that the Fergie Wenger rivalry between 98 and 05 was better (but not by much in terms of head to head matches)

City being relatively useless at Anfield is a credit to that Liverpool side; City have slapped every other PL side at their stadiums. Liverpool have been the only side that has forced Pep to evolve in England from all out to more calculating, and vice versa. It's been a great tactical dance between the two.

The only reason why many are disagreeing is because for them, football matches have to have more than quality football to be interesting. Hence comments about passion and hatred and what not. Oh, and somehow interpreting praise of this tie as a slight on Fergie and Wenger, which is

 

[Ludens the Red]

I'm not

It's not just about the goals, it's about the quality of general play. The ability of Liverpool to fluster City's possession play. The ability of City to play through Liverpool's ferocious press. Since I've started watching football, only peak El Classico with Messi and Ronaldo had a higher level of football played on a consistent basis. And I'm conceding that the Fergie Wenger rivalry between 98 and 05 was better (but not by much in terms of head to head matches)

City being relatively useless at Anfield is a credit to that Liverpool side; City have slapped every other PL side at their stadiums. Liverpool have been the only side that has forced Pep to evolve in England from all out to more calculating, and vice versa. It's been a great tactical dance between the two.

The only reason why many are disagreeing is because for them, football matches have to have more than quality football to be interesting. Hence comments about passion and hatred and what not. Oh, and somehow interpreting praise of this tie as a slight on Fergie and Wenger, which is

The general play in these games has tended to be that the team at home plays really well and the team that plays away, plays really badly.
There’s also been an air of predictability about them. 6/7 years and Liverpool never won at Etihad. City won at Anfield once against a depleted error prone Liverpool. Don’t get me wrong there were strong performances in there but there was rarely a game both teams put on a spectacle and performed at a high level. Take the other rivalries you mentioned. Real and Barca could beat each other at their respective grounds. Same with United/Arsenal.
And you can’t discount the passion and hatred element because that is a huge part of “rivalries” and what gives them that extra needle. Knowing that the opposing players loathe each other. That airiness when Barca would get a goal at the Bernabeu or vice versa. Same with United scoring at Highbury and vice versa.

I dunno, I’ve just never felt these games have had a bite to them or have been that interesting. Liverpool and Chelsea between 2005 and 2009 I would rank above the Liverpool City games in terms of an all round spectacle. They went from low scoring intense tactical battles to relatively high scoring, high quality attacking games of football. They always felt so much more intense.

I think the “quality of football” element is completely subjective. Lots of people do not find city’s football to be particularly enjoyable. It’s incredibly efficient but there are many teams over the years I’d prefer to watch. Including Klopps Liverpool during that period who’s home wins over city were far more impressive than city’s at home to Liverpool.

I think you’re remembering some of those games better than they were. The two 4-1 city wins being a perfect example and they both made your list. But look at the games, look at the line ups and look at where Liverpool where at the time.

 

[WeePat]

Mourinho vs Wenger is unusual in that Mourinho only lost twice to Wenger in his entire career I think - one was Community Shield and the other 2-0 loss at Emirates with United toward the end of that season when he was preparing for EL final so it was mostly meaningless basically. Don't think he lost any other game to Wenger.

There was genuine animosity though. They didn’t like each other and were constantly taking shots at each other via the press.

 

[Robertd0803]

Far far below
Fergie/Wenger,
Fergie/Jose
Fergie/Benitez
Keegan/live tv
Jose/Wenger
Jose/Benitez.

Hell even the likes of Allardyce and Curbishley had more interesting spats with Wenger than Klopp/Guardiola have had. Its all to nice and boring and very little needle behind it.