Which players are good enough?

Oneunited26

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The played I would see gone
Young, darmian, Jones, smalling, Valencia, matic, fellaini, lukaku,

That’s a start, and you have still a good set of players to build a foundation around. Get a bit better depth at the back, add more in midfield and attack. But has long Has the relic managers this football team, we will continue to see these slow to ageing players and ones not good enough fester in this squad
 

0le

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The players good enough:
De Gea
Pogba
Martial

The players good enough, at least, to be squad players
Mata

Average/good players:
Smalling
Fellani
Shaw
Romero
Lindelof
Bailly
Lingard
Pereira
Rashford
Rojo
Fred
Herrera

The players not good enough:
Young
Lukaku
Jones
Darmian
Grant
McTominay

The players completely washed up:
Valencia
Matic
Sanchez

The above list is the way I see it. We've got 6 players that must be sold as soon as possible and 3 that should probably consider retirement or MLS. We've got twelve players who are average, good and/or haven't yet shown enough to suggest they could compete in a title winning team. Some of them can be starters and squad players. But the fact remains, we have too many in this list and perhaps three, maybe four need to be sold. We have Mata who is an excellent squad player and first team player, if played in the correct system. He could be in the list below too. We only have 3 players who can genuinely guide us to win a title.

Whoever the next manager is, they have a monumental task ahead of them. Good coaching can only take you so far. We need some better recruitment.
 

RedFish

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Squad needs improving, of course it does, but we have played poorly too. The whole atmosphere created from.thr lack of support from the board towards our manager, the claws of the media, and the whining anti-Mourinho brigade, has made it difficult for us to play undistracted. It's been a mess, largely of our own making. It won't stop either, but I do my best to ignore the negative vibes and the seemingly constant need of some to undermine our manager.
 
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AngliaRed

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What players could start for City, Liverpool or Chelsea?

DDG - best keeper in the world

Pogba - world class player, however is too inconsistent.

Martial ( on his day ) even then he wouldn’t force Hazard, Sane/Sterling and Mane out.

That’s not good reading when the team are expected to compete, and finish in the top 4.
 

cheeky_backheel

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CL Champion - Pogba, DDG
PL - Martial
Rotation - Lindelof, Bailly, Herrera, Fred, Lukakud, Shaw
Squad - Romero, Smalling, Rashford, Lingard, Matic, Dalot, Pereira, Fellaini
Exit - Rojo, Jones, Valencia, Young, Sanchez, Mata, Darmian
 

Scholsey2004

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I don't think the squad is actually that bad. We've got some good players. Unfortunately we've also got a manager who hates them all. Before we start talking about getting rid of a load of expensively assembled players we need to see them under someone who actually likes football.
 

Livvie

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The list of players some of you want out is ludicrous. Sanchez washed up?? Please...

There's something wrong at/with the club.
 

Jeffthered

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The players good enough:
De Gea
Pogba
Martial

The players good enough, at least, to be squad players
Mata

Average/good players:
Smalling
Fellani
Shaw
Romero
Lindelof
Bailly
Lingard
Pereira
Rashford
Rojo
Fred
Herrera

The players not good enough:
Young
Lukaku
Jones
Darmian
Grant
McTominay

The players completely washed up:
Valencia
Matic
Sanchez

The above list is the way I see it. We've got 6 players that must be sold as soon as possible and 3 that should probably consider retirement or MLS. We've got twelve players who are average, good and/or haven't yet shown enough to suggest they could compete in a title winning team. Some of them can be starters and squad players. But the fact remains, we have too many in this list and perhaps three, maybe four need to be sold. We have Mata who is an excellent squad player and first team player, if played in the correct system. He could be in the list below too. We only have 3 players who can genuinely guide us to win a title.

Whoever the next manager is, they have a monumental task ahead of them. Good coaching can only take you so far. We need some better recruitment.
I would agree with much of this. Phil Jones is a decent player, v much a Premiership squad player, can be excellent on his day. But lacks a brain and this will never change. Rashford I would say is definitely good enough. He just needs guidance and support, but he is doing fine. I just think we shouldn't expect so much from him. Martial, I personally, still have much doubts over. Look at his last couple of performances... nowhere to be seen, and he is supposed be the in-form player! He has scored six Prem goals... as has Glen Murray, even Gylfi Sigardsson and Callum Wilson. Martial is yet to prove, on a consistent basis, that he is a player than can inspire United as a real, attacking force. I think he is good. But not as good as some seem to wish.

Like other's have stated on here, I now do not anticipate much from this United team. The club lacks direction, and the Manager is squeezing the life and expression out of the players. All is very, very, very sad to observe, and I can only see a huge clear-out at the end of the season. And the Manager doesn't even care.

You can see it.
 

Devil81

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It's easier to name the players I'd keep than write a whole list of players I'd happily see the back of.
 

Bola

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My list is below, but i'll caveat it with a statement of the obvious, in that it is a team game. Therefire we should not be aimimg for a galaticio matchday squad of 18 players, but the right mix of players who are willimg to complement each other.

My 'workings' are below, but I only have 5 players who I now be are currently good enough as regular 1st teamers to win the Prem. A few promising younger players could be to the right standard in a season (Rashford, Perreira, Dalot), or they may not. The rest are just useful squad players, players who need to be moved on within 24months (or sooner) and several players with a question mark on whether they are good enough (e.g. Fred, Bailley).

We need a CB and RW as an absolute priority. Probably add a RB, CM, CF and another CB to that list as well. There is plenty of hope in our youth team however and that could fill a lot of the above of we had a manager willing to take a risk


I've categorised the players as follows:
1) First 11
2) Squad quality - we can't have a squad of 22 superstars and need players who can rotate
3) Transition out - as in they are doing a job, but can be upgraded over the next 24 months
4) Jury Still Out - players who Have the potential to be top draw, but have a big question mark over their head
4) Defintely get rid

First 11
De Gea
Shaw
Pogba
Martial
Sanchez

Matchday Squad
Rashford - Needs to get better at finishing

Fellani and Mata - Useful 'special team' players in certain scenarios

Dalot and Perriera - Still young and developing. Could potentially move into the top catagory

Romero - Top draw back-up keeper

Lingard and McTom - Have their uses, but not guranteeed 1st team starting material

Transition Out
Smalling - Our best defender currently, but technically limited and will fall off a cliff when his athleticism goes

Young - Versatile player who is useful for another season as cover

Herrera - Never really got consistency here. Think we can do better

Matic - The lad looks in decline and is performing far away from his Chelsea days

Jury Still Out
Fred - Not had a real chance yet

Lindelof - Got a season to prove himself. Could be a flop

Bailley - As above, but potentialy a flop due to his injury problems

Get rid
Valencia - Cannot offer effective attacking output anymore

Darmian - Mr bang average

Jones and Rojo - Proven sicknotes

Lukkaku- I may be getting harsh here for his recent performances, but his touch and lack of movement is completely unacceptable. Needs to sort himself out or I'd try and sell him in Jan
 

Massive Spanner

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We've got plenty of good players. Under a different manager we'd be much better.
Is the correct answer.

The only team in the league with a better squad than us are City. The difference between us and the likes of Pool, Spurs, and Chelsea is that their manager's actually knowing what fecking players to pick and how to utilize them.
 

Nikelesh Reddy

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Hands on hearts. How many of our players are truly good enough to form an 11 capable of firstly winning the Premier League, and secondly the Champions League? Because this is the criteria our players should ultimately be measured against.

De Gea
Bailly
Matic
Pogba

In my opinion these are the only players that we have currently that are of the required standard to play in an 11 that could win top honours.

We have the likes of Valencia, Herrera, Jones that can do a job but when measured against the best they aren't good enough. The only young hopefuls that we have are Rashford and Martial, but both of them aren't good enough currently and still have a hell of a long way to go.

In terms of winning the league, you can get by with a few players that can "do a job", but the bar has been significantly raised in Europe and we may be witnessing City also raising that bar in the league.

Basically, it doesn't look good for us right now in terms of getting back to where we want to be, which is challenging seriously on all fronts.

I'm interested to hear who everyone else genuinely believes is good enough to play every week in an 11 that could win the CL and/or PL.
Good enough to play week in,week out in a title winning team?David De Gea,Luke Shaw(potentially,not right now),Pogba(potentially,not displaying consistency),Martial(potentially,not right now),Mata(If he’s used in a certain way and if he has the right players around him).Out of these 5,3 of them are not displaying the consistency right now to be a part of a title winning team....

And Mata isn’t being used in the right way nor does he have the right players around him...So Apart from De Gea,nobody’s good enough to play in a title winning team.Thats a damning indictment of where we are right now...
 

Leftback99

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Most appear to agree we have 2-5 'title challenging' quality at best. And even these aren't a patch on the 7+ top class players we'd have in squads of the past.

Mourinho is part of the problem but there is also a gulf in expection compared to the reality of this overpaid squad.

It's a bloated squad of 5 to 7/10 quality players rather then 8 to 9/10s that we need in the first 11.
 

In Rainbows

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I want to give some of the young guys a chance. I think we should try to build around that core.

Young core:
de Gea (28 years old)
Pogba (25 yo)
Lukaku (25 yo)
Shaw (23 yo)
Bailly (24 yo)
Lindelof (24 yo)
Martial (23 yo)
Pereira (22 yo)
Rashford (21 yo)
Dalot (19 yo)

That's an excellent young core that can build towards something great with a few more transfers and youth bleed through.

Veterans:
Herrera
Smalling
Mata
Romero

I like Herrera and Mata's professionalism over the others. I like Smalling over Jones so I would prefer him. Romero is a great 2nd keeper, but if he wants to leave we should do the right thing and let him get playing time elsewhere.

Hopefuls:
Tuanzebe (21 yo)
Dean Henderson (21 yo)
Joel Pereira (22 yo)
TFM (20 yo)
Gomes (18 yo)
Chong (18 yo)
O'Connor (18 yo)
Greenwood (17 yo)

Greenwood has been the most talented striker at the club since Rossi. Wilson, Keane, Rashford, Welbeck, and Fletcher weren't as talented as he was. I didn't get to watch Rossi or Welbeck at youth level, so I just based it on raw talent of which Rossi clearly showed he was a level above. I only started watching from 2010 on.

When it comes to Gomes and Chong, they've been right up there with the most talented pairs I've seen in attack. In natural talent Gomes is up there with Ravel and Januzaj. I was probably impressed with the latter 2 over Gomes in attack as I felt they had more influence on the pitch at u21-u23 level, but when it comes to talent I think Gomes is more talented than Januzaj with Ravel being the obvious #1, but not too far off from Gomes. We've generally had some really good talents even if a lot of them didn't pan out like Daehli, or Gribbin. Can't really say Chong is less talented than Lingard who has panned out.

If Gomes moves to midfield I prefer what Gomes offers there over what Pearson, Pereira, and Goss provided. Similar to Pereira, but I feel can be a higher level as I prefer his ability to handle pressure and attack better than Pereira due to being the better #10 and having the better technique. I've always preferred the Pereira type who are Modric like (don't mistake this with saying they're the next Modric).

When it comes to CBs prospects, Tuanzebe has been in my eyes the most talented in a while. I've rated him higher than Thorpe, Keane, McNair, etc... Keane actually surprised me a bit like Rashford with how well he took to 1st team football. I wasn't alone in thinking Thorpe was better, but Keane had the better CB build and well Thorpe ended up in India.

Henderson and Pereira are better gk prospects than Samstone, Amos, etc... were.

O'Connor has been the most impressive defender along with Tuanzebe over all of the defenders we've had at youth level. This means over Blackett (didn't rate), Thorpe, Keane, Williams, Fryers (didn't rate), De Laet, James, Vermijl, Borthwick Jackson, Love, Janko, and Varela. If I get this wrong, which I have been in the past as it's impossible to see who takes well to first team football, I will gladly do so just like the Thorpe Keane example. But based on performances I don't feel this is wrong at all just like I felt that Thorpe had slightly better performances over Keane.

Lengthy post on youth prospects, but as a group this is the best I've felt in some time. Never know, but if we can churn out 2-3 legit players out of this group they will be a tremendous help.

Get rid:
McTominay (would prefer some other youngster given a chance)
Young
Valencia
Darmian
Sanchez
Jones
Rojo
Fellaini
Matic
 
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mitchmouse

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We've got plenty of good players. Under a different manager we'd be much better.
no way. too many totally "ordinary" players. no game-changers and very very few world-class players. On this season's showing none, in fact. Not even DDG
 

GBBQ

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There are some good players there but either the system or the tactics are causing them to under perform.

Lukaku isn't good enough in this current set up where too much is expected of him in the build up play (and his touch just isn't good enough to warrant that role). That being said if he was playing Ruud's role back in the early 00's I am sure he'd fill his boots with goals. So either we create a supply and play to his strengths or he continues to look ineffective and we sell him to Southampton for 20 mil in a couple of seasons. We're operating without a recognized right winger yet Mourinho is complaining that he didn't get to add a 6th CB to the books. Even if we've a few duds in defence surely a winger would alleviate the problem and we could go back to outscoring the opponents.
 

sunama

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Too much emphasis being put on players performances alone, and not enough on the reasons that those who come to us invariably go backwards. Anyone who thinks Pogba, Matic, or Sanchez have delivered, is deluded. Pogba can be brilliant, but how often has he been? He’s feckin lazy. Again yesterday we see him lose the ball and do nothing to get it back. We know Sanchez is awesome...so why not at OT? Sometimes I even forget Matic is playing but how often is he subbed? Rashford and Mata, both played out of position even though they have often have done the job when used properly. Lukaku is a shadow of what he was.Depay came to us touted as best thing since sliced bread, was rubbish, shipped out and is apparently brilliant again. It goes deeper than being off form, or not good enough.
I agree with most of your post, but Memphis was always good against lesser quality sides. Even when he played for us. But, the moment he goes up against quality opposition, he turns to shit. Bizarrely, there is no in between with him. He either puts in a 8/10+ performance or 2/10 performance. To play in the EPL and do well, he'll need to step up a few levels.
 

JoaquinJoaquin

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Put it this way, The only players i'd 100% keep are De Gea, Pogba, Martial and Shaw. The rest could all happily leave on my watch. Far too much mediocrity.
 

Steerpike

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Put it this way, The only players i'd 100% keep are De Gea, Pogba, Martial and Shaw. The rest could all happily leave on my watch. Far too much mediocrity.
De Gea is a definite keep. Not quite at the top of his game right now, but still possibly the best 'keeper in the world.

Pogba has been generally disappointing, and I don't believe his way of playing is a good fit with the Premier League. He seems to believe the hype about him being a great player, but that certainly isn't borne out by his performances this season. My main criticisms are he over complicates his game, wants too much time on the ball, has the habit of falling over and gesticulating at the referee when he loses the ball rather than chasing back, and shows poor judgement about when to take risks and when to play safe. I think Gary Neville's observation that he plays as if the team were already 2-0 up is spot on, and I'd be looking to offload him in the next transfer window.

Martial needs to cheer up a bit and look like he actually enjoys playing football. Perhaps that would happen if Jose left.

Shaw has improved and obviously worked on his general fitness, and could be our first choice left back for many years.

The others that I would keep: -

Herrera - every team needs someone in midfield who's prepared to put their foot in.

Fellaini - a controversial pick perhaps, but I feel he's a much more effective player than he's given credit for, is useful in both boxes, and gives the manager tactical options.

Rashford - has the potential to be very good if he has a manager who believes in him and plays a more progressive style of football. Also shows a good level of commitment (e.g. those two tackles in quick succession against Palace on Saturday).

Lingard - bags of energy and a good player, and able to play the pressing game if required.

Young - has developed into a useful utility player who can fit into a number of positions, so a useful person to have on the bench.

Mata - intelligent player who can chip in with a few goals as well. probably getting towards the end of his career, but still has something to offer.

Pereira - would benefit from getting more game time, but able to play as a 6, 8 or 10.

Dalot - has hardly played, but he's a young full back who has potential.

The rest I'd be comfortable letting go, but the one who I'd really like to see heading for the exit is the manager.
 
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sunama

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We've got plenty of good players. Under a different manager we'd be much better.
That's what was said under Moyes.
Then LVG had to do a clear-out.
Then with LVG's new signings, the same thing was said.
Now with Jose, exactly the same things are being said.
It seems that it is never the players' fault. Players have to stand up and be counted.
The only player IMO, who is MUFC (title winning) quality is DDG and possibly Pogba. Everybody else is top 4 level.

Here's a nice way of looking at it.
How many of our attackers today, would make the 1999 starting XI and the bench. Martial would make the bench. The rest, wouldn't.
For our midfielders, I think Pogba may get a starting berth or would be on the bench. None of our other midfielders would even make the bench.
None of our defenders would make the 1999 starting XI or the bench.

See what I mean?
 

Annihilate Now!

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That's what was said under Moyes.
Then LVG had to do a clear-out.
Then with LVG's new signings, the same thing was said.
Now with Jose, exactly the same things are being said.
It seems that it is never the players' fault. Players have to stand up and be counted.
The only player IMO, who is MUFC (title winning) quality is DDG and possibly Pogba. Everybody else is top 4 level.

Here's a nice way of looking at it.
How many of our attackers today, would make the 1999 starting XI and the bench. Martial would make the bench. The rest, wouldn't.
For our midfielders, I think Pogba may get a starting berth or would be on the bench. None of our other midfielders would even make the bench.
None of our defenders would make the 1999 starting XI or the bench.

See what I mean?
I have seen pretty much all our players play better/be more consistent elsewhere. Is it above top 4 level? maybe not... but currently, we're not even showing top 4 level, so why is it fair to judge these players on this when you're already admitting that they're better then what they're currently showing?

The first step is to get rid of the manager, and get someone in who will get these players playing to their level - then we can chop and change and push on from there.

Also 1999 is a ridiculously high bar... I mean,how many midfielders from our 2008 CL winning team would get into that midfield? None... And the alternative is, if our manager from 1999 was in charge of this group of players, how would they be doing? Obviously that is the level we want to aim at eventually, but we are so far below that right now, that to jump from where we are now to that level cannot happen over night.
 

JJ12

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DDG, Romero, Lindelof, Bailly, Smalling, Shaw, Young, Dalot, Herrera, Pogba, Pereira, Fred, Lingard, Rashford, Sanchez, Martial, Lukaku (maybe)

Only players I’d want to retain for next season with a new boss. Hopefully moving on from Young and Smalling the following season.
 
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SpyLuke10

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Get rid: Darmian, Valencia, Jones, Rojo, Sanchez.

Replace with starting quality players. Particularly at centre back, right wing and maybe right back depending on how Dalot goes for the remainder of this season.

I still have hope that Matic with a good rest can turn it around, at least to be a good squad player for us, perhaps not starting in the future.

I can't believe some numbskull suggested getting rid of Grant? He's our third choice keeper ffs.

I last did a get rid list mid last transfer window and the list then was basically this list minus Valencia and Sanchez but with Blind and Carrick instead (who both left/retired).

Spend the money, simple as.

EDIT: Reasons for getting rid of these 5 -

Darmian - How is he even still at the club?

Valencia - He seems to be cooked, his form has fallen off a cliff this season, and at 33, it seems like he is finished at the top level for United. Thanks for your contributions Valencia, wonderful servant of the club.

Jones - Too slow, injured too much, and most importantly, way too mistake prone. Not good enough.

Rojo - I think he is decent but he is simply too injury prone. He looked immense 2 years ago.

Sanchez - So wasteful and on way too much money, and I've been disappointed that we signed him since the aftermath of his United debut against Tottenham. Since we signed him we have regressed big time. Up until the end of January we had progressed under Jose.

I think our squad is very good, these are the only 5 I'd try to sell, although I'd also try to loan out McTominay. If other players want to leave then that obviously can change plans, but I think we should be particularly focused on these 5 going out of the door.

Thoughts?
 
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Robbie Boy

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Under Mourinho? They won't ever play as they should be playing. We have some good players - albeit not great, for the most part - and we should be doing far better than we are both results and performance wise.
 

KingMinger22

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Most appear to agree we have 2-5 'title challenging' quality at best. And even these aren't a patch on the 7+ top class players we'd have in squads of the past.

Mourinho is part of the problem but there is also a gulf in expection compared to the reality of this overpaid squad.

It's a bloated squad of 5 to 7/10 quality players rather then 8 to 9/10s that we need in the first 11.
Agree with the above.

I think our first 11 and squad, talent wise, is absolutely appalling for a team that is supposed to be one of the biggest in the world.

We have two players that the top 5 teams in the world would even “touch”.
 

Fosu-Mens

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Agree with the above.

I think our first 11 and squad, talent wise, is absolutely appalling for a team that is supposed to be one of the biggest in the world.

We have two players that the top 5 teams in the world would even “touch”.
We have a squad full of players that have not improved/regressed in the last 2,5 years. Playing slow and defensive football with no plan on how to attack. I would be suprised if we had more than 3(Pogba, DDG and Martial) players that would be sought after by the top teams in the world.

Some of the players are clearly not good enough, but some of the players are the victims of playing in a "system" that does not suit them (or any other team for that sake) and the way we train is clearly not as good as the way City and Liverpool train(Given that the players in our first team is either getting worse or keeping the status quo.)
 

Al-T

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In nearly fifty years following United I can't recall a group of players representing this club that I could care less about than this lot.

I'd be disappointed if De Gea left. Romero is a quality back up. I never saw Fellaini as a Manchester United player but I've warmed to him as he at least shows the mental strength to get on with it, whatever his limitations.

Couldn't give a stuff about any of the rest.
 

Dec9003

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I think we have a massively overrated squad, which is a result of bad investment early on, and bad choices of signings from our past managers and present manager (fergie included)
De Gea is quality, despite having limitations, Martial can be good one day and crap the next, Pogba I think is the most overrated player on the forum by a country mile; and those are probably our best players.
Irregardless of whether or not Mourinho does go, we need a big shakeup of the squad over the next two/three years.
 

Bestietom

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I can't ever remember this question being asked when Fergie was our manager, as he made all players feel they were world class. He got 110% from all his players, and he said himself that there were only 4 World class players that he managed in all the different teams he formed. FANTASTIC.

We need another manager like him, who can get us back to where we belong. You can get better results from players when you put an arm round them instead of blasting them in public.
 

Bestietom

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De Gea
Martial,
Shaw,
Pogba ( when on form)
Lukaku ( in a 2 up Front)

Afraid I cannot add to these as most others are just not performing for us atm.
 

Raven

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I would agree with much of this. Phil Jones is a decent player, v much a Premiership squad player, can be excellent on his day. But lacks a brain and this will never change. Rashford I would say is definitely good enough. He just needs guidance and support, but he is doing fine. I just think we shouldn't expect so much from him. Martial, I personally, still have much doubts over. Look at his last couple of performances... nowhere to be seen, and he is supposed be the in-form player! He has scored six Prem goals... as has Glen Murray, even Gylfi Sigardsson and Callum Wilson. Martial is yet to prove, on a consistent basis, that he is a player than can inspire United as a real, attacking force. I think he is good. But not as good as some seem to wish.

Like other's have stated on here, I now do not anticipate much from this United team. The club lacks direction, and the Manager is squeezing the life and expression out of the players. All is very, very, very sad to observe, and I can only see a huge clear-out at the end of the season. And the Manager doesn't even care.

You can see it.
You're right, the 15/16 season never happened. Martial wasn't our top scorer and certainly wasn't our best player over the course of the season?

I think your point about squeezing all expression out of the players is spot on though.
 

hp88

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Dave, Lindelof, Pogba, Rashford, hang onto them and make them your spine.
 

11101

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Dave, Lindelof, Pogba, Rashford, hang onto them and make them your spine.
I fully expect De Gea and Pogba to leave this summer. Both are getting older and are good enough to be winning trophies, and we're as far away from that as we've ever been.
 

fps

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Dave, Lindelof, Pogba, Rashford, hang onto them and make them your spine.
This would be the correct answer.

I also believe there need to be different tiers of player - someone like Park or Fortune wasn't a regular starter, but their performance level and effort level in a United shirt was unbelievable, every time.

Too many of the current lot aren't made of the right stuff - Smalling, Jones (HOW are these two still at the club?), Darmian, Rojo, Matic, Fred (I just feel bad for him and all concerned), Lukaku.

There is a lot of criticism for other players, including Pogba, and Martial, but I believe those two are simply being used incorrectly. Pogba, OGS used correctly when he first arrived - he played him 20 yards further up the pitch, removed the centre mid responsibilities, and suddenly he was winning matches for them. Now, unfortunately, he's being played in midfield, with three specialist strikers on the pitch, which curtails his ability to go forward and do what he does better than those strikers, which is score and create chances.

Martial is constantly played on the left wing, even though he doesn't have anything a winger needs - he lacks the balance, the passing, the crossing. He is, however, potentially a world-class striker. It's very odd that he's never played there, he's not versatile, and he doesn't need to be.