So are you arguing that these people should all be accepted as they are and helped, or are you using 'trans-racialism' to try to paint transgenderism as wrong? If it's the former then I think a lot of people wouldn't go that far, but good on you. If it's the latter, then that's why you're getting so much pushback.
White civil rights activist pretending to be black...
- Thread starter Pogue Mahone
- Start date
What's the difference between white people and black people?
transgenderism has been documented for 1000s of years across multiple cultures, independent to each other, whilst being orders of magnitude more common than transracialism, so it's pretty clear why one is seen as more "normal" than the other
Can always count on the Simpsons to tell the hard truths that society isn't ready to admit
It's also clear why some people are jumping on it. Usually this would just be a funny thing posted in the Hypernormalisation thread in the general, but suddenly a lot of people are intensely interested in comparing it to transgender.
If you take transracial at its core - it's something that's happened throughout history as well. In the time of the Ottomans, the leaders of new lands conquered would send their kids to Turkiye in order to learn the language, and literally assimilate in the culture that was foreign to them until they were for all intents and purposes considered the other race (attire, language, and titles for example). It happened in Arabia over a 1000 years ago too...I mean, it's also in the Bible if you consider the story of Moses until he reverted back to his native culture - we just didn't have the term 'transracial' to articulate it throughout history.
moses the transracial
We already have a word for that, and you just used it. Assimilation.
I'd be interested to see the research and statistics on the countries where trans people are regularly killed because I can't think of a country where they are regularly killed. I do agree, the recent spate of horrific right-wing GOP nut jobs in the USA seem hell-bent on leaning into a culture war moment. Using the excuse of pushback against the more extreme (and rare) parts of gender ideology to create grim legislation, not just against trans folks but on abortion as well.
I understand where Corinthian is coming from, albeit the comparison isn't linear not 100% applicable.
Well, it's confusing because it can be hard to verbalize how you feel like a different gender without using, what I was taught at least, regressive gender stereotypes.
Could this be because 1000s of years ago people of different races rarely cohabited?
https://www.brasildefato.com.br/202...ith-the-largest-number-of-trans-people-killed
They link the study in the article.
In Brazil a transgender person is murdered every 3 days, I'd say that's pretty regular.
can’t think of any other reason
I think this study is flawed because 51% of those killed were sex workers, which isn't representative of wider society as this is the most dangerous job.
Brazil is high on murders consistently - there was a report recently that showed that, on average, 4 women are killed every day which is absolutely mental - 4 Women Are Killed Every Day in Brazil as Femicide Persists (globalcitizen.org)
Shocking. I wonder how much of this is linked with Bolsonaro and the type of rhetoric he comes out with.
OK, so what's regular to you? A person a week is not enough?
We'll just have to agree to disagree then. If there was no cultural influence, the concept of misalignment, as you put it, wouldn't even exist. People would internalize it as a normal part of what it is to be human. We don't say a blonde person who would love to have black hair has any internal misalignment, it's just a thing.
What? I don't follow?
We have three women a week here.
You said this: "I'd be interested to see the research and statistics on the countries where trans people are regularly killed because I can't think of a country where they are regularly killed."
I showed you a study, but you found problems in it, but even after removing the sex workers, which for some reason you say shouldn't be counted, that's still almost 1 person killed per week.
Before I spend more time looking for stats to show you, how many transgender people need to be killed for you to consider it a regular occurrence?
do you think his testimony might be clouded by his income source, i.e., as an anti-transgender influencer?
there are many studies demonstrating health benefits of gender reassignment surgery. it doesn't seem that trans-korean's surgeries helped him. do you know if there is more widespread study of the outcomes of trans-race surgery?
Which is fine but today transgenderism, many believe, is determined by self identification as gender is a social structure that does not require surgery. Therefore why would trans-race people simply not be able to self-declare their race without surgery and that be accepted and for them to be treated as the race they wish to identify with?
I don't think transracialism is a thing. Transgenderism undoubtedly is. But I also think there's more in common between self-identifed trasgendered and "transracial" peoples than there is between self-identifed transgendered individuals and transgendered people who correctly seek to address their real life medical issues through treatments that may involve surgery in some circumstances if the person chooses.
The principle of 'self identification as something is sufficient' is why those claiming nonsense such as transracialism will very likely win future legal battles as there's been a precedent set and I don't see how you deny it legal status simply because of suspicions of it being disingenuous. You can no more prove that than you can on basis of gender, sexuality or anything else.
Transracialism is clearly a nonsense to make a politics, anti-trans point. But I don't see how a legal protections extended on basis of self-identification can possibly say "but not that one".
And if it tries to I can't see why challenge to it won't be successful. It's taking groups, like with men and women, that have equal protection and rights under the law. Those that would claim they identify as a different age for example would face this obstacle as different ages comes with different rights and privileges from a free education to additional income through state pension.
Whilst the lived realities might be different, on paper legally gender and race are protected characteristics. Therefore you could no more argue transracialism is concocted to gain legal or entitlement advantages than those who sought to fight transgender self-identifcation were could. I mean, I'm sure they did but they lost.
Transgendered people are a persecuted minority but I can't think of a legal requirement for that threshold to be a criteria for recognition. As long as by identifying as something that wasn't 'assigned' to you at birth you're not seeking to gain additional legal rights or privileges then I don't see how the law can stop anyone transitioning by means of self-declaration only to anything they like. Which cannot logically exclude transracialism.
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Your framing of my point is quite hostile, please take it down a notch. I see through what you are doing, especially your last paragraph.
It's not that I want to exclude SW, but this is a demographic that faces the most harm and for the average TW, using statistical outliers like this to make a broader point about society isn't ideal.
I was curious, is the deaths of one group, higher than other groups. Because if the rate of murders is similar across all demographics of women (cis, trans etc) then one group is not being under "more threat", and I use that term really sparingly, because it's 7am and I haven't had caffeine, than another.
A common point I hear is that statistically, TW are more at risk of being killed than CW. In Europe, a lot of that stats seems to show (unless I am wrong, which is usually the case) that the chances of being killed are the same, perhaps a touch less than cis women.
This isn't to disparage or reduce the harm faced when discussing this subject, that's not my point at all, far from it. I believe all women are under threat, but telling one group they are facing greater danger when (perhaps) they are not, does nothing but create a huge fear in a community that is struggling with mental anguish (gender dysphoria) and makes all discussions hostile.
Someone else made the point earlier that this is a thread for a different subject so I will stop responding on this as it's not thread appropriate.
https://blog.apaonline.org/2021/07/06/changing-identities-are-race-and-gender-analogous/
Then read this observations on Ronnie Gladden, a trans woman and trans racial person.
https://minnes1888.medium.com/authe...y-in-a-post-rachel-dolezal-world-631bd38c503f
Then followed this to an article from Angela Onwuachi-Willig in the NYT discussing that Race is a social construct.
https://www.nytimes.com/roomfordeba...ace-and-racial-identity-are-social-constructs
Googled the term and this blog came up.
Then read this observations on Ronnie Gladden, a trans woman and trans racial person.
https://minnes1888.medium.com/authe...y-in-a-post-rachel-dolezal-world-631bd38c503f
Then followed this to an article from Angela Onwuachi-Willig in the NYT discussing that Race is a social construct.
https://www.nytimes.com/roomfordeba...ace-and-racial-identity-are-social-constructs
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No (to your first question). The testimony I provided was from a few years ago. His weird views have only come out recently (and I think he is transgender or non binary himself).
What health benefits are there of gender reassignment surgery?
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36149983/
Both transmasculine and transfeminine groups were more satisfied with their body postoperatively with significantly less dysphoria. Body congruency score for chest, body hair, and voice improved significantly in 40 years' postoperative settings, with average scores ranging from 84.2 to 96.2. Body congruency scores for genitals ranged from 67.5 to 79 with free flap phalloplasty showing highest scores. Long-term overall body congruency score was 89.6. Improved mental health outcomes persisted following surgery with significantly reduced suicidal ideation and reported resolution of any mental health comorbidity secondary to gender dysphoria.
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamasurgery/article-abstract/2779429
After adjustment for sociodemographic factors and exposure to other types of gender-affirming care, undergoing 1 or more types of gender-affirming surgery was associated with lower past-month psychological distress (adjusted odds ratio [aOR], 0.58; 95% CI, 0.50-0.67; P < .001), past-year smoking (aOR, 0.65; 95% CI, 0.57-0.75; P < .001), and past-year suicidal ideation (aOR, 0.56; 95% CI, 0.50-0.64; P < .001).
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6546862/
The findings of the studies permit the conclusion that sex reassignment surgery beneficially affects emotional well-being, sexuality, and quality of life in general. In other categories (e.g., “freedom from pain”, “fitness”, and “energy”), some of the studies revealed worsening after the operation.
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/19359705.2021.2016537
Fifty-three studies were included. Findings indicate reduced rates of suicide attempts, anxiety, depression, and symptoms of gender dysphoria along with higher levels of life satisfaction, happiness and QoL after gender-affirming surgery. Some studies reported that initial QoL improvements post gender-affirming surgery were not always enduring.
https://journals.lww.com/prsgo/full...t_after_gender_affirmation_surgery__a.22.aspx
A total of 27 studies, pooling 7928 transgender patients who underwent any type of GAS, were included. The pooled prevalence of regret after GAS was 1% (95% CI <1%–2%). Overall, 33% underwent transmasculine procedures and 67% transfemenine procedures.
Ok so you're talking about solely mental health benefits. The way you worded it intimated you meant health benefits (i.e. less susceptible to disease or something I dunno) which is what I couldn't figure out.
So going back to the original point - have you read Oli London's testimony? It would seem he received the same mental health benefits as your studies -
In their video statement showing the results of their surgery - which includes a face lift, a brow lift, and work on their teeth - they said: "I know a lot of people don't understand me, but I do identify as Korean and I do look Korean now, I do feel Korean...
"That's just my culture. That's my home country. That's exactly how I look now. And I also identify as Jimin, that's my career name."
London said they understood there is "a little bit of confusion for some people" but after struggling with identity issues they finally "feel beautiful" and wanted to speak out during Pride month.
They said they had lived in Korea and speak the language and "have the Korean look now, I look completely Korean".
Update:
Teacher formerly known as Rachel Dolezal loses job over OnlyFans account
Dolezal, a white woman who identified as Black for years and later changed her name to Nkechi Diallo, fired in Arizona
https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news...l-nkechi-diallo-onlyfans-arizona-school-fired
Teacher formerly known as Rachel Dolezal loses job over OnlyFans account
Dolezal, a white woman who identified as Black for years and later changed her name to Nkechi Diallo, fired in Arizona
https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news...l-nkechi-diallo-onlyfans-arizona-school-fired