I was talking about this thread in the second paragraph. The other post was clearly satire but I just found it long and boring and gave up after a few players.
Who is the most overrated player in PL history?
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Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) discuss United's fantastic win away against Athletic Club in the semi-final of the Europa League.
They also pick out the positives of United's 4-3 loss away at Brentford, and Nik reviews a day out at Old Trafford watching Manchester United Women qualify for the Champions League.
I was talking about this thread in the second paragraph. The other post was clearly satire but I just found it long and boring and gave up after a few players.
I think Ronaldo was the most important player, but I don't understand how the team's decline after he left would prove that?
He was replaced by a clearly inferior player, a decline is expected. If Ronaldo stayed and Rooney gets replaced by someone of Valencia's quality (no offense to him) the team would decline too.
Eric Cantona is the one that springs to mind for me. His influence was undeniable, but as a player I always wondered why he deserved all of the accolades. Long time ago now though
We weren't as good. No. Who would be after losing arguably the best player in the world. But I would hardly call us "in decline". We didn't go into decline until after SAF left...
Beckham for me. What is he really famous for in a footballing sense? Crossing and free kicks. That's it. Could only use his right foot, can't dribble, can't tackle, can't head the ball, wasn't particularly fast, was never as good as Giggs, we upgraded on him when we got Ronaldo to replace him yet for some reason he's mentioned in the same breath as real legends.
The media never seemed to acknowledge that and seemed to think (at least for a few years) he is up there with the big stars.
Don't you know? Everyone with different opinions on players is a kid who didnt watch them.
It's not like supporters evaluations vary widely all the time watching the same game.
In recent times its Scholes. Thoughout his time as a player he was underrated but since his retirement, his overrating has been ridiculous.
If anyone even suggests that Lampard or Gerrard were on the same level as Scholes you'll be met with a series of ''. People are so desperate for him to be seen in the same light as Zidane, Xavi and Iniesta that if he's compared with anyone else its seen as an insult.
We watched Gerrard, Lampard and Scholes for a decade in the PL and nobody can tell me that Scholes was consistently head and shoulders above the other two in the time they played. Rating Scholes as the best of the three is fine but they were all of a similar level.
If anyone even suggests that Lampard or Gerrard were on the same level as Scholes you'll be met with a series of '
'. People are so desperate for him to be seen in the same light as Zidane, Xavi and Iniesta that if he's compared with anyone else its seen as an insult.We watched Gerrard, Lampard and Scholes for a decade in the PL and nobody can tell me that Scholes was consistently head and shoulders above the other two in the time they played. Rating Scholes as the best of the three is fine but they were all of a similar level.
I only came to say Hart.
This thread really has shown the worst in some of you posters. Beckham overrated? If anything he was unfairly underrated due to his fame!
In recent times its Scholes. Thoughout his time as a player he was underrated but since his retirement, his overrating has been ridiculous.
If anyone even suggests that Lampard or Gerrard were on the same level as Scholes you'll be met with a series of '
We watched Gerrard, Lampard and Scholes for a decade in the PL and nobody can tell me that Scholes was consistently head and shoulders above the other two in the time they played. Rating Scholes as the best of the three is fine but they were all of a similar level.
Agree.
For me id put Scholes ahead of Gerrard because as others have said Gerrard only really had about 3/4 good/great seasons.
Id put him and Lampard as pretty much equal.
I think if one was to choose one or the other there could be more of a case for Lampard being better than Scholes than there is the other way around if we are talking about career highlights and big game moments.
Lampard scored In Fa cup finals and Champions league finals. Something that Scholes never did.
He also had more career goals and assists,scored more against bigger teams and scored goals to clinch Premier League titles
Scholes scored against Newcastle in the 1999 FA Cup final.
Gerrard.
Supposedly the best central midfielder ever but his two best seasons were either on the right because Benitez didn't trust him in the middle in 2004-05 or as a second striker behind Torres in 2008-09.
Bottled it under pressure despite being known as a big hero and was only really remembered because of his 'superman' moments where he scored a memorable goal.
Ego got the better of him and it was the ultimate Stevie Me compilation against Chelsea after the slip. Hollywood passer in the extreme and never that good technically and certainly not mentally. He was all heart and no brains.
Supposedly the best central midfielder ever but his two best seasons were either on the right because Benitez didn't trust him in the middle in 2004-05 or as a second striker behind Torres in 2008-09.
Bottled it under pressure despite being known as a big hero and was only really remembered because of his 'superman' moments where he scored a memorable goal.
Ego got the better of him and it was the ultimate Stevie Me compilation against Chelsea after the slip. Hollywood passer in the extreme and never that good technically and certainly not mentally. He was all heart and no brains.
By United fans it is Scholes by a country mile.
By the general media and public - Joe Hart was promoted way above his station for club and Country by a brief spur of good form and fortuitous circumstance. Rode it for years and years.
By the general media and public - Joe Hart was promoted way above his station for club and Country by a brief spur of good form and fortuitous circumstance. Rode it for years and years.
Ex-Player:
Martin Keown
Playing now:
Eric Dier
Honorable mentions:
Phil Neville, Hugo Lloris, Willian
Martin Keown
Playing now:
Eric Dier
Honorable mentions:
Phil Neville, Hugo Lloris, Willian
Redcafe usually rates oppo players about fair but the bias against Gerrard is so clear.
I couldn't stand the shithead but he was a great player and easily one of the best players we've seen in the PL.
I couldn't stand the shithead but he was a great player and easily one of the best players we've seen in the PL.
In hindsight Owen was probably also overrated. He was a big game player in a very defensive team, but either way he was bracketed with Henry and nistelroy, yet in the end he never put up the same numbers. Only one to win a balon dor though
Dier is a good call
Apparently you meant to message me. Haha. Anyway I've seen Owen play lots on TV and I've seen him live too. I'm honest enough to say he burst onto the scene and did well. As I've said I'm certainly biased against him due to his very poor punditry. For me he just comes across as a chap who'd be difficult to like. Others may be more than willing to have a beer with him but I'd rather pass.
Fully agree.
A player like Beckham today would cost more than Pogba.
Trust me I don't want a beer or anything with to do with him. He does seem pretty annoying and well, quite boring as well. The only thing I disagree with is when people say he was only about the pace because he genuinely had a lot to his game apart from pure pace.
Back then people were not wrong to overrate him because his trajectory did look good.
I think he would be playing midfield in todays era. His work rate added to his technical ability with pinpoint crosses would be incredibly useful to have. He was the type of person that didn't need to beat his marker. Like artillery fire would smash in amazing cross after cross.
Quite right. He wanted to be centre mid but we play 442 and he couldn't quite cut it in a two.
Today in a 433 or 4231 he'd have eyewatering numbers.
Totally different players.
Beckham was more consistent than Giggs, was a better passer and crosser, took a better free kick and ended up becoming more of a leader.
Giggs was all about explosive pace and dribbling skill. We were very lucky to have them both in the same midfield.
Don’t forget Xavi and a whole heap of galacticos stating Scholes was the best player they’d ever faced. “Country mile” I mean really..
"Scholes is overrated"
Heard it all now.
Not surprising to hear it coming from bitter Liverpool fans who bore the brunt of his brilliance.
Still pining over your lord and saviour, Steven 'it's all about me' Gerrard, never winning a league title?
Heard it all now.
Not surprising to hear it coming from bitter Liverpool fans who bore the brunt of his brilliance.
Still pining over your lord and saviour, Steven 'it's all about me' Gerrard, never winning a league title?
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Gerrard
So let's see, Based on this thread so far, here's one possible attack for "team overrated"
-------------Owen Drogba-------
-----J.Cole Scholes Gerrard Beckham
------------------ Viera
-------------Owen Drogba-------
-----J.Cole Scholes Gerrard Beckham
------------------ Viera
Kompany? Will go down as one of the best captains and defenders but he has barely played!
The problem here is so many people are blinded by their club, and not by the quality of the player. Not just UTD fans, but all fans, in one way or another.
An example would be ‘we hate Messi, because we love Ronaldo’ ( the same Ronaldo who left UTD to go to a bigger club, to win more trophies, having wanted to go the year before, and shot on sight every 5 minutes in the European Cup final, during his anti Barca/Look at what you’re getting Madrid mindset).
The ‘we hate Mourinho mindset’ changed from when he was at Chelsea, where he was disliked, because ‘we now hate Pep’ , because he manages Messi and wins trophies’ and he is stopping Ronaldo from winning trophies. This changed to ‘we love Mourinho’ because he’s now our Manager, but after the dust settled, this turned in to ‘we mostly hate Mourinho’ because he was being....well Mourinho.
However, we ‘still hate Messi’ because he’s still competing with Ronaldo, even though he left us, and knocked us out of the European Cup. ‘We still hate Pep’, because he keeps winning, and is a fraud, but Mourinho who has spent more than any other Manager in the history of the game, is not a Fraud.
On to Scholes, who was a great player, but has never been UTD’s best player, in any year, at any time in his UTD career. He has been in the EPL team of the year twice (Gerrard 8 times). A great player, absolutely, overrated, maybe. He has never made in to UEFA’s team of the year, never been nominated for UEFA player of the year, and never in the top 3 of the Balon Do’r, nor been Player of the year, or Writers play of the year.
A great player, but nowhere near UTD’s top 5, and just in the top 10. I am happy to name some...
But I’d never say he is the most overrated.
Gerrard, who has been called a ‘bottler’ on here, is classed as ‘the most overrated’ even though he has won footballer of the year twice, as recognised in the outside of Liverpool world. This might be because he scored in the UEFA Cup final, topping off 3 trophies in a year, or it might be because he scored the first goal in the greatest European Cup final comeback ever (without even mentioning the last gasp goal from 25 yards against Olympiacos), or it might be, because he scored first in the League Cup final, beating UTD.
He also scored in the final minute of the FA Cup final, having gone down with cramp, from 35 yards out, having bought his team level earlier in the game after being 2 down.
He also scored many, many goals against UTD, and other big teams at home and abroad, in the biggest games, which bottlers don’t do. And has over 100 caps for England.
He didn’t win the league, but remains the only player to score in all of the major cup finals. But he came close, a couple of times, losing to UTD’s greatest ever team (in my opinion) in 2008/2009, having won 4-1 against said team at Old Trafford.
And despite the rhetoric, the Liverpool team that ‘bottled it’ in 2013/2014 won 12 of its last 14 games, drawing 1 and losing one. That’s 37 points in 14 games, and title winning form some would say.
People who don’t support Man UTD, think he is an excellent player, as do they with Scholes.
If you took Gerrard and put him in the UTD Team, he would have strengthened them, and certainly would not have weakened them, and if you took out Gerrard and put in Scholes, then Istanbul, Wembley, and the others would not have happened.
Ferguson tried to sign him twice, and Mourinho 3 times, but as the narrative goes, he’s overrated. Of course he is.
An example would be ‘we hate Messi, because we love Ronaldo’ ( the same Ronaldo who left UTD to go to a bigger club, to win more trophies, having wanted to go the year before, and shot on sight every 5 minutes in the European Cup final, during his anti Barca/Look at what you’re getting Madrid mindset).
The ‘we hate Mourinho mindset’ changed from when he was at Chelsea, where he was disliked, because ‘we now hate Pep’ , because he manages Messi and wins trophies’ and he is stopping Ronaldo from winning trophies. This changed to ‘we love Mourinho’ because he’s now our Manager, but after the dust settled, this turned in to ‘we mostly hate Mourinho’ because he was being....well Mourinho.
However, we ‘still hate Messi’ because he’s still competing with Ronaldo, even though he left us, and knocked us out of the European Cup. ‘We still hate Pep’, because he keeps winning, and is a fraud, but Mourinho who has spent more than any other Manager in the history of the game, is not a Fraud.
On to Scholes, who was a great player, but has never been UTD’s best player, in any year, at any time in his UTD career. He has been in the EPL team of the year twice (Gerrard 8 times). A great player, absolutely, overrated, maybe. He has never made in to UEFA’s team of the year, never been nominated for UEFA player of the year, and never in the top 3 of the Balon Do’r, nor been Player of the year, or Writers play of the year.
A great player, but nowhere near UTD’s top 5, and just in the top 10. I am happy to name some...
But I’d never say he is the most overrated.
Gerrard, who has been called a ‘bottler’ on here, is classed as ‘the most overrated’ even though he has won footballer of the year twice, as recognised in the outside of Liverpool world. This might be because he scored in the UEFA Cup final, topping off 3 trophies in a year, or it might be because he scored the first goal in the greatest European Cup final comeback ever (without even mentioning the last gasp goal from 25 yards against Olympiacos), or it might be, because he scored first in the League Cup final, beating UTD.
He also scored in the final minute of the FA Cup final, having gone down with cramp, from 35 yards out, having bought his team level earlier in the game after being 2 down.
He also scored many, many goals against UTD, and other big teams at home and abroad, in the biggest games, which bottlers don’t do. And has over 100 caps for England.
He didn’t win the league, but remains the only player to score in all of the major cup finals. But he came close, a couple of times, losing to UTD’s greatest ever team (in my opinion) in 2008/2009, having won 4-1 against said team at Old Trafford.
And despite the rhetoric, the Liverpool team that ‘bottled it’ in 2013/2014 won 12 of its last 14 games, drawing 1 and losing one. That’s 37 points in 14 games, and title winning form some would say.
People who don’t support Man UTD, think he is an excellent player, as do they with Scholes.
If you took Gerrard and put him in the UTD Team, he would have strengthened them, and certainly would not have weakened them, and if you took out Gerrard and put in Scholes, then Istanbul, Wembley, and the others would not have happened.
Ferguson tried to sign him twice, and Mourinho 3 times, but as the narrative goes, he’s overrated. Of course he is.
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Ginola .
If Scholes is overrated, why ex teammates said Scholes was untouchable in training? It boggles my mind!
Reading this thread legit making my skin crawl.
Reading this thread legit making my skin crawl.
Beckham did deliver the cross to Sheringham, and then Ole found that 2nd ball and the rest is history.
Beckham did that famous free kick against Greece when England's hope of qualifying seems lost.
He had his moments, he was for me the true modern superstar who made United famous around the world.
A quick summary for those who can't be bothered to read all that: Scholes is overrated and Gerrard is underrated.
Yes, the author is a Liverpool fan.
Beautiful writing. Thank you for that.
You’re either young or have a short memory. He was definitely not overrated, but injuries did have an impact during his later career. You don’t win European Footballer Of The Year for not being ‘fantastic’
Yet you don’t disagree with anything one would presume, and yet I said ‘Scholes was a great player’ And I also said ‘ I would never say he was the most overrated’
Probably losing my memory from age to be fair. As I've said it probably doesn't help I've never particularly warmed to him. He's probably better than I remember him as humans tend to modify their thoughts based on their likes and dislikes which distort their reality.