devilish
Juventus fan who used to support United
- Joined
- Sep 5, 2002
- Messages
- 61,716
the board chose those those managers + they gave them carte blanched to do whatever they wantI don't see Ole's name, Jose's name...but I see Rangnick's name...
the board chose those those managers + they gave them carte blanched to do whatever they wantI don't see Ole's name, Jose's name...but I see Rangnick's name...
This. The owner spent over a billion in net transfer fee alone for the past 10 years, let alone sign on fee, agent fee and wages. However they are responsible for the appointment of Woodward though, but definitely it is Woodward to me.The owners have spent a LOT of money. Woodward and co are the ones to blame for this mess.
Agree with this. The fact he managed to maintain success is astonishing. On average per season under the Glazers he also spent less than Ole, Mourinho and van Gaal who can’t even use the excuse of not being backed by the Glazers.Posted this elsewhere re Ferguson and the absurd aiming of blame towards him.
'You don't get to simultaneously blame Ferguson and the Glazers. The board have been shown up as utterly incompetent, self interested businessmen and the fact that Ferguson managed to wrangle any degree of control while keeping them in check and keeping us successful is a miracle in itself. This in vogue trend of blaming Ferguson is lazy, embarrassing rubbish. What other manager in the world do you place the demand on to babysit the board and oversee the state of the club as well as win games? Because it can't be both, either you wanted Ferguson to surrender power and relinquish control to this incompetent mob earlier, while he was still manager, or you wanted to be successful for all those years we were. Rubbish, one dimensional thinking, the same as the utter myth that wont flush that he wasn't tactically sound, despite winning 13 titles and hitting 7 CL semi finals, winning it twice. Oh, that was just charisma and man management. Give him a dutch sounding name and you'd be creaming yourself in front of youtube highlights.'
Overall it comes from top down and the loss of Ferguson led to a Woodward and Glazer led drop in standards which has permeated through the club, and is now upheld by players who know little else. Average guys piggy backing on the success and reputation built by Ferguson and real footballers
Agreed.
Jesus when I said it was like a cult I didn't even think it was this bad. My days...
Why should we not be allowed to say anything against SAF?It has nothing to do with being a cult, it’s about being self aware and actually having an understanding of why the club is even the massive draw it is now. Clueless supporters like yourself blaming an 80 year old legend for our club’s problems need to sit down and shut it. You’re cowards bleeping on about it on red cafe, have the guts to say it in person then. Blind and coward supporters like you don’t have it in you to do that.
Such a bollox. Is SAF a god that cannot do any wrong ? This is cult like behaviour. Maybe him signing duds like Bebe, Manucho and friends also a right move too.He's a human after all. Him hiring Moyes was already a mistake in the first place.You’re not a real United supporter, end of.
Moves was not 1st, 2nd or 3rd choice.Such a bollox. Is SAF a god that cannot do any wrong ? This is cult like behaviour. Maybe him signing duds like Bebe, Manucho and friends also a right move too.He's a human after all. Him hiring Moyes was already a mistake in the first place.
Thing looked like total shit on August. We just lost the Europa final with one of the most shameful display I have ever seen from United team. The rot had started before this season. People really thought we were playing like prime Barca before Ronaldo came.Just when we were starting to make some progress after 8 years last year, we sign Ronaldo which blows all plans out the water. We now find ourselves with a crazy scientist Coach with a highly unusual formation yet without the players to implement it. So in the space of 5 months, we have self imploded from things starting to look bright in august 2021 to this sad hole now.
If only we had spent close to billion pounds and almost most money since his retirement.Ferguson deserves a lot more blame than he gets but our fans consider it sacrilege to say anything negative about the man. Even putting aside the Rock of Gibraltar and shielding of the Glazers, the "no value in the market" nonsense as City propelled themselves into a superpower - his recruitment, even for what little United were spending was just not good enough from 2007 on. It left us with an aging squad with inflated expectations. Most of the big hitters were finished at the top level within two years of his departure. Those who we moved on did nothing of note anywhere else. The only top player left behind was De Gea.
No, Moyes' way was toxic, the whole chips thing showed David Moyes' priorities - he was attempting to 'stamp his authority' by focusing on side issues and other matters that were more or less irrelevant. The man was completely unsuited for dealing with a squad of winners who may have been set in their ways but were professional enough to rally around a confident and qualified manager.I think when SAF was here, the players knew his power was absolute so if he gave them some leeway on somethings they knew not to take the piss. When he left and the manager became much more disposable the players started taking advantage.
I always remember a story about Moyes falling out with the players because he told them they couldn't have chips for a pre game supper, it's not that surprising we've ended up where we have.
Rio Ferdinand: 'David Moyes p****d off the lads by taking away our chips' claims former Manchester United defender
When SAF left I've always felt the stupidest move was not appointing Moyes, but to give him the power to dismanlte one of the most successful backroom teams the club has ever had.
While your point is definitely valid I can't follow the conclusion to blame Rangnick for it.However I do question the wisdom of implementing such demanding tactic with one of the laziest and entitled squads in the EPL mid way into the season especially when we simply lack the personnel to do so and that our players haven't pressed for the past 3 years. Cavani-Ronaldo are ancient, AWB look lost in the opponent's half of the pitch while Maguire has less pace then a frigging tortoise. You don't need to be a genius to acknowledge that this 4-2-2-2 system can't work here, at least, not with the present side
Thank you. The amount of nonsense I hear thrown at Fergie is unreal. Possibly the GOAT but basically just a real good motivator? So disrespectful. As is the trend to blame him for issues of today.Posted this elsewhere re Ferguson and the absurd aiming of blame towards him.
'You don't get to simultaneously blame Ferguson and the Glazers. The board have been shown up as utterly incompetent, self interested businessmen and the fact that Ferguson managed to wrangle any degree of control while keeping them in check and keeping us successful is a miracle in itself. This in vogue trend of blaming Ferguson is lazy, embarrassing rubbish. What other manager in the world do you place the demand on to babysit the board and oversee the state of the club as well as win games? Because it can't be both, either you wanted Ferguson to surrender power and relinquish control to this incompetent mob earlier, while he was still manager, or you wanted to be successful for all those years we were. Rubbish, one dimensional thinking, the same as the utter myth that wont flush that he wasn't tactically sound, despite winning 13 titles and hitting 7 CL semi finals, winning it twice. Oh, that was just charisma and man management. Give him a dutch sounding name and you'd be creaming yourself in front of youtube highlights.'
Overall it comes from top down and the loss of Ferguson led to a Woodward and Glazer led drop in standards which has permeated through the club, and is now upheld by players who know little else. Average guys piggy backing on the success and reputation built by Ferguson and real footballers
The Glazers are just living off Fergusons inheritance. They bought Utd at the right time when broadcasting money was about to go through the roof and the internet had just began to take off.Don't think you can silver bullet this. The more this goes on the more you can that an institution there is something NOT right at United in many parts of the organisation.
- A legacy god like figure still exerting his influence over the club (SAF)
- Mind boggling transfers and contract renewals, e.g. Fellaini, Lingard, Mata, Jones, DDG, Di Maria, Falcao, Smalling
- Letting the bricks and mortar assets effectively rot i.e. Old Trafford and Carrington, while the rest of the teams associated with the club play at Leigh Sports Village and The Cliff. Where is the cohesive strategy.
Maybe the Glazers gave too much power to Woodward and were apathetic to their responsibilities as owners rather than just being absent landlords. Woodward as the leading figure of one of the leading sporting institutions globally was out of his depth, he needed support and was either to blind to ask for it or to naive.
What I will never fathom is, as fans we believe (prob rightly so) that the owners are in it for themselves i.e. $$$ Surely the penny must drop at some point you need to get it right ON The pitch to make the Benjamins off it.
Hopefully with Richard Arnold taking the helm we can see a better balance between commercial activity the pursuit of footballing excellence.
I'm sorry but I have to disagree and calling for a permanent ban for the many many people who share this view (and it is steadily growing as Utd's problems continue) is ridiculous and an attack on free speech. Let's work backwards through your post: '....it’s the GLAZERS and only them that are the problem.' but wasn't SAF partly responsible for the Glazers in the first place ? and even if not, he hasn't to my knowledge ever spoken out against them - and why would he whilst he gets £ millions a year in his Club Ambassadors role... when Pep leaves City or Klopp moves on from Liverpool, will either of those clubs keep them on the payroll for even just one more day? NO, so why do Utd. do it? It wasn't as if Fergie was badly remunerated whilst he was the Utd. manager - he was consistently the top earning manager in the league year after year.Anyone blaming Sir Alex for our problems now should be facing a permanent ban. He made the club what it is now and it has been widely reported by many credible journalists like Stone that he had virtually no more power at the club. He’s a figurehead and a legend enjoying his retirement. Piss off OP for even including Sir Alex. Piss off to anyone who’a gullible enough to believe that he’s still leading any decisions at the club.
After 27 years, he owed this club nothing else when he retired and any competent club run by good owners would have had a proper succession plan in place. This falls firmly onto the glazers. The fact you made a list and included Sir Alex shows you don’t have a clue. You spout nonsense. The simplest argument is usually the most sensible one and it’s the GLAZERS and only them that are the problem.
You can blame both if one caused the other - google Rock of Gibraltar racehorse dispute.Posted this elsewhere re Ferguson and the absurd aiming of blame towards him.
'You don't get to simultaneously blame Ferguson and the Glazers. The board have been shown up as utterly incompetent, self interested businessmen and the fact that Ferguson managed to wrangle any degree of control while keeping them in check and keeping us successful is a miracle in itself. This in vogue trend of blaming Ferguson is lazy, embarrassing rubbish. What other manager in the world do you place the demand on to babysit the board and oversee the state of the club as well as win games? Because it can't be both, either you wanted Ferguson to surrender power and relinquish control to this incompetent mob earlier, while he was still manager, or you wanted to be successful for all those years we were. Rubbish, one dimensional thinking, the same as the utter myth that wont flush that he wasn't tactically sound, despite winning 13 titles and hitting 7 CL semi finals, winning it twice. Oh, that was just charisma and man management. Give him a dutch sounding name and you'd be creaming yourself in front of youtube highlights.'
Overall it comes from top down and the loss of Ferguson led to a Woodward and Glazer led drop in standards which has permeated through the club, and is now upheld by players who know little else. Average guys piggy backing on the success and reputation built by Ferguson and real footballers
Well that is one view, alternatively they could have stayed true to Man Utd.s history (they were never a club known for numerous management changes) and given Moyes the same amount of time Sir Alex was given, back in the late 1980s.He recommended Moyes, the owners who had no expertise in building a successful club themselves listened. If they had any sense, which they did not, they would’ve took some lessons from elsewhere and tried to modernize the club at that time but they were lazy because success came easily under Sir Alex.
I don't need to Google it thanks. Life isn't a game of dominoes and one did not 'cause' the other. Its an absurdly simplistic takeI'm sorry but I have to disagree and calling for a permanent ban for the many many people who share this view (and it is steadily growing as Utd's problems continue) is ridiculous and an attack on free speech. Let's work backwards through your post: '....it’s the GLAZERS and only them that are the problem.' but wasn't SAF partly responsible for the Glazers in the first place ? and even if not, he hasn't to my knowledge ever spoken out against them - and why would he whilst he gets £ millions a year in his Club Ambassadors role... when Pep leaves City or Klopp moves on from Liverpool, will either of those clubs keep them on the payroll for even just one more day? NO, so why do Utd. do it? It wasn't as if Fergie was badly remunerated whilst he was the Utd. manager - he was consistently the top earning manager in the league year after year.
Re: 'Piss off to anyone who’s gullible enough to believe that he’s still leading any decisions at the club.' well I'm not gullible and its widely accepted that he was a key motivating factor in the return of Ronaldo - which isn't working out too well in my opinion. He also practically forced Ole to make Ronaldo the 1st name on the team sheet following comments made after the Everton game. Do you not agree? You can't say: oh Ole should have been stronger and done his own thing AND at the same time say 'He’s a figurehead and a legend enjoying his retirement' with no influence over things going on at the club. Both can't be right. Plus look what happened to Moyes who did try to do his own thing and bring in his own people, look how well that worked out... (plus SAF set Moyes up to fail by leaving the club in the state he did - yes you can say as Champions, but it was a weird season and RVP was just winning games on his own.) Consider things now, look at Moyes & West Ham now - above Utd. in the table and without spending billions.
You can blame both if one caused the other - google Rock of Gibraltar racehorse dispute.