Madrid bound.
Who replaces Ten Hag?
- Thread starter Plant0x84
- Start date
That's such a bizarre analogy?
Mckenna is clearly a very competent football manager. That's why Ipswich got promoted last season and are second in the championship. Many people are suggesting De Zerbi, despite the fact they'd never even heard of him 12 months ago.
My main reason for backing him is that he is overachieving at Ipswich. Much like Sir Alex overarchieved at Aberdeen or Klopp overachived at Dortmund.
Too many fans are quick to turn their nose up at him because he's not a big name but maybe that's exactly what's needed now.
Did you just compare Ferguson at Aberdeen to McKenna getting Ipswich promoted into the championship?
He's been coming back from injury, and we don't have a defence that can cover the gaps that the two 8s would leave. Once we have some semblance of our first choice team back, I expect he'll get back to it.
I know the Scottish prem is rubbish, but at least Celtic have the expectation of the manager winning. Brighton and Sassuolo barely have the expectation of the manager getting out of bed.
He didn't veto it because the choice that was put to him was Casemiro vs McFred. It's a simple choice really.
FDJ definitely looked possible, the reason it didn't happen is because Barca didn't want to pay him and were trying to force him out on the cheap.
ETH isn't a manager to suit them, and I agree that we need to neuter the player power (which we've been doing pretty well at under Ten Hag so far).
The point is that it top players at top clubs are difficult to get in line, and there's little in De Zerbi's career to suggest he'd hold their respect or have the authority. It's still possible, but there's no evidence of that throughout his career.
I think they're likely to respect his achievements. His time at Hoffenheim gave them their highest ever finish having started with them facing relegation, his time at Leipzig saw their best ever European performances, and he won the league at Bayern. I'd put that against De Zerbi's CV which reads sacked by Palermo, relegated with Benevento, midtable with Sassuolo, an unfinished season at Shakhtar, and a good season with Brighton.The guy that rides in on a scooter? Sacked by Bayern. You think our players are going to respect him?
We shouldn't be thinking about other managers until the structure is sorted out. Ten Hag probably deserves the sack but until a proper DoF is brought in I see no manager out there who could succeed in the current setup. De Zerbi would also crash and burn although I suspect he'd be smart enough to tell us to feck off if we approached him.
He's on his first managerial job. If all it takes is a decent run in the lower divisions , there are plenty of examples of managers that have failed to make the step up. This is not mentioning the unique challenges of being a united manager. Nothing personal against Mckenna but I'm going to need more.
This really is key. If we are going the 25% Ratcliffe then Mitchell route then we need to let the DoF see if he can work with EtH & if not chose his own manager.
I will put money on it that we don't see Bruno and Mount as dual 8's for a sustained period of time.
You obviously know nothing about Tony Bloom.
You are right, the Scottish Prem is a joke. Beyond Rangers, Celtic are playing the equivalent of league two teams. Maybe even worse because the average salary for the lesser Scottish Prem teams is below that of the league two average.
Were you in the room when that happened?
FDJ was never happening. Barca didn't have the cash to pay the money owed. FDJ didn't want to leave it on the table and United didn't want to cover it. So was never going to happen.
So ETH and the club his the panic button and signed a star name that was no longer needed at Real. Just like we did Varane. Paying two Real Madrid pensions.
Personal opinion, is that ETH has lost the dressing room. He has upset too many players. It is one thing to leave players out, it is another to isolate them and disrespect them.
It has been well reported that some United players didn't like they way Ronaldo and DDG were treated. You saw Bruno, Lindelof etc out for lunch with DDG. Garnacho idolized CR7. Rashford bestie Sancho is training with the kids.
I'm sure you have been in workplaces where you have a manager that treats a few of your colleagues badly. Once that happens, everyone thinks that boss is a d1ck head.
Then you add in the sporadic lineup changes and random sh1t he is coming out with pre and post-game. You can see why the performances are crap.
Agree, his resume is better, but it would be a huge risk to bring in a young manager with no Premier League experience.
The answer isn’t to replace him in the same way the answer wasn’t to replace Klopp or Arteta.
The answer is to back him to continue the necessary cultural and personnel changes to make us more competitive than we currently are.
The answer is to back him to continue the necessary cultural and personnel changes to make us more competitive than we currently are.
We'll see, but that's still you drawing a conclusion about Ten Hag from your expectations, rather than what's actually happening.
Haha dude you can't hit me with "were you in the room" and then immediately jump into your own speculation. Well you can, but it undermines your credibility.
That's your opinion and you're entitled to it, although I don't think the evidence backs you up. Players are still playing for the manager, Sancho aside who is hardly a paragon in the dressing room, and they've clearly seen a change in approach and a desire to back the manager over the biggest examples of player power we had, such as Ronaldo.
If I've been in a workplace where some of my colleagues aren't pulling their weight, like Sancho, aren't up to the job, like DDG, or are trying to exert power over everyone else, like Ronaldo, then generally I can see why the boss moved them on.
Anyone we bring in would be a risk. In fact, without a better structure above them, pretty much anyone we bring in is being set up to fail.
He's achieved more than Xabi Alonso, or De Zerbi has in the last 12 months.
I'm aware that its a much smaller sample size but managers don't tend to get much time to build football clubs anymore.
It's probably too soon for Mckenna, but who are the alternatives?
It's all just flavour of the month managers or ones that are over the hill.
Agree. McKenna has the serious potential, the very high level potential.
in the past, it’s from different managers singling out him for it. It’s like the kind of prodigy due to his early start of coaching career. He is now showing it. But, we need to wait and let him develop his coaching career further. Maybe, next season, they are in EPL? Maybe the season after, they can get into Europe? Then, they win a European title? Well, he then becomes a real candidate. Just like SAF did with Aberdeen. It’s a really high bar considering the competitive level in EPL. But he might just be able to achieve it.
If Erik is sacked - Taken the Glazers could afford to do that, who would we bring in?
I don't think any of the managers mentioned here would touch United at the moment. It's a poisoned chalice. McKenna? too early to throw him in now, he needs to develop further to be able to manage the expectations at United. Who knows he might get Ipswich promoted this season and immediately relegated again.
So that would leave someone like a Graham Potter ( the expectations would destroy him, therefore he wouldn't last - Brilliant at Brighton, out of his depth at Chelsea )
Southgate? Would any of us want him?
No, i think what would happen if Erik was sacked would be Darren Fletcher because he would be cheap and would be a Glazer prisoner because he loves the club ( Just like Ole )
Who knows we may even get a new manager bounce with Fletcher, then it would be "Darren's at the wheel" until those wheels came off, and so the vicious cycle would continue.
The trouble will always be the owners, and the fans just don't seem to have the appetite for sustained pressure on these people who have destroyed our once proud club.
We should be causing chaos ( not violent chaos i must add ) on a every single game basis. Even that may not work but at least it would be better than what seems to have happened to the fanbase at the moment "Oh well Sir Jim might change things over time"
No we need change and a FULL SALE AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. If that doesn't happen i really fear for the club i have loved for most of my 64 years on this planet.
Just my views.
I don't think any of the managers mentioned here would touch United at the moment. It's a poisoned chalice. McKenna? too early to throw him in now, he needs to develop further to be able to manage the expectations at United. Who knows he might get Ipswich promoted this season and immediately relegated again.
So that would leave someone like a Graham Potter ( the expectations would destroy him, therefore he wouldn't last - Brilliant at Brighton, out of his depth at Chelsea )
Southgate? Would any of us want him?
No, i think what would happen if Erik was sacked would be Darren Fletcher because he would be cheap and would be a Glazer prisoner because he loves the club ( Just like Ole )
Who knows we may even get a new manager bounce with Fletcher, then it would be "Darren's at the wheel" until those wheels came off, and so the vicious cycle would continue.
The trouble will always be the owners, and the fans just don't seem to have the appetite for sustained pressure on these people who have destroyed our once proud club.
We should be causing chaos ( not violent chaos i must add ) on a every single game basis. Even that may not work but at least it would be better than what seems to have happened to the fanbase at the moment "Oh well Sir Jim might change things over time"
No we need change and a FULL SALE AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. If that doesn't happen i really fear for the club i have loved for most of my 64 years on this planet.
Just my views.
I don’t know about his managerial skills and I agree he did an impressive job at Ipswich.
But, he just can’t go back to a team who got his boss fired last time and who knows him very well. Psychologically, it will be naïve I think to bring him now.
When the cycle with the players he knew will be over why not.
But otherwise, he will be set up to fail.
Ah yes Everton who won the league, came second and have won the champions league since Madrid bailed him out
Everton are one of the few teams that are more poorly run than us, hence why I wouldn't want Carlo here under our current structure, any team with a clear and good structure he has performed and got his team's performing well in.
Can’t ever remember him being a good manager though. What was he like at Sunderland/Ipswich? Theirs a reason people like him and Neville are in punditry. They’re good at talking and criticising but can’t manage themselves.
Back him to what end , should we absolve him of any blame for the Shit Show we are witnessing currently Just because we have plenty of other problems doesn't mean Ten Hag isn't one .
How much confidence one can have in a Manager Who plays Dross like Mctominay in No 10 position and continuously backs Likes of Fernandes and Rashford despite horror Shows they continue to produce on the field . It seems he doesn't have the Gravitas or the inclination to make the tough decisions he is in self preservation mode looking for easy way out , it's high time if has a vision of Pro Active football then we see atleast glimpses of it and if there are players who can't follow or execute it then he should drop them and just use players who can even if they are youngsters or less talented one .
Either way his days are numbered If he sticks with whatever the hell he is doing .
Sacking ETH would be another disastrous decision and would continue to accrue to the mediocrity of Man Utd as a whole.
I am not saying this because I trust ETH or I think he is a great manager. But United needs to cut off the circle of managerial changes and focus into building a system, into building confidence within their players and get team leaders to support their colleagues.
I am not saying this because I trust ETH or I think he is a great manager. But United needs to cut off the circle of managerial changes and focus into building a system, into building confidence within their players and get team leaders to support their colleagues.
What's he done to convince you he'd work out here, ignoring the Liverpool connection?
He has done a great job with Leverkusen. They are dominating posession and are playing with an identity. Top of the league table and in ECL table.
Of course he could be the next hipster appointment (hypothetically) but for me he ticks all the boxes.
Can you, in all honesty, say that he's making the "necessary cultural and personnel changes" because I really can't anymore. Where's the evidence that we're heading in the right direction or becoming more competitive than we currently are?
We probably won’t go Dutch again after Van Gaal en Ten Hag, but Arne Slot is one of the most talented coaches in Europe right now, only 44 years old. He took AZ to the second place before he was sacked because he had an agreement to go to Feyenoord. He completely changed the playing style of Feyenoord. Took them to Conference league finals in his first year. Then lost most of his players and got a lot of new players in and made Feyenoord champions of Holland. What is much more difficult than winning it with Ajax. In his third season now he tops his Champions League poule and has already beaten Celtic and Lazio Roma. He is really talented and has a great own style of play with which he completely transformed Feyenoord.
Yeah no.
Took over a massively struggling Leverkusen in a relegation spot, solidified the team and in a year evolved it into the currently best team in Leverkusen. So he has proven that he can fix a crisis and that he then can turn his team into a dominant force.
He will go to a big club in Europe after this season, but probably not United as I said already.
Clearly there is zero point in sacking the manager at this stage partly as there is nobody suitable who could step in. At this stage I would hope that the manager has been told that league position is secondary to a priority of establishing a clear identity and style of play. Forget about Europe. It's time to take that financial hit in order to rebuild. Recruitment wise we need leaders on that pitch and players committed to the cause. Talent is secondary. Hard work and clarity go a long way. He's got to construct a "team" and the mentality that goes with it. Right now it looks like it's unravelling so it's a tall order. Personally I think he'll be sacked at the end of the season and I genuinely believed that he was going to deliver when he came here.
Good for him.
Ok but who builds the system?
I guess @BenitoSTARR was more thinking the players he tried to get rid of and couldn't. Mctominay and Maguire were clearly transfer-listed in Ten Hags mind and wanted a CB like Tobido and got Evans on a free instead. Was Amrabaat first choice or was he the only player we could get within budget? Hard to tell on that one. I'm pretty sure he was also under the impression he'd have Greenwood back and then the rug was pulled out on that too.
I hope whoever ends up in charge - ten hag or not, doesn't have to deal with this shite in the future. If they do, at least let it be mitigated with stronger leadership and decision making above the manager.
Difficult to believe that the two players that were transfer listed started in the Manchester derby.
Either he is naive to keep rewarding these players for performing well against cannon fodder or is just plain stupid. Any competent manager would have kept them away from the starting XI.
And if not Madrid next summer, then either Madrid, Liverpool or Bayern when any of them need a new manager. Alonso is too smart, and too affiliated with those rival clubs, to risk derailing his young career at Man United.
I see two scenarios: One, we do not panic if we do not need to, and let Ten Hag continue for the season. If there is no significant improvement soon, we plan for a next season with a new manager. I would be more than happy with either De Zerbi or Nagelsmann, the latter being available after the Euros. Ideally with a DoF change in the meantime, that would be my preferred outcome.
Two, the shit show continues or worsens and we need an immediate change. If the "transition style" is indeed Ten Hag's line and he cannot make it work, there is someone available right now who can continue with it to certain improvements and results, and that is Conte. If there is one guy who wins things with a compact counter/transition style while whipping shape into a motley squad, it is him. So if Ten Hag wants to die on that hill that is foreign to him, and the club is happy to let him die there, we might as well bury him and hire the native.
It will mean deviating from the progressive possession football aim, but we are doing that already as per Ten Hag's statements. And Conte will lose his shit and quit after 18 months tops anyway so we can hire a progressive manager then.
Another option if Ten Hag is to be sacked - Lucien Favre, as caretaker ideally, or for a season and a half. Very decent manager, principled, meticulous, yet able to work with difficult characters. Bonus in this very moment would be, it was him under whom Sancho excelled at Dortmund, it might be a chance to salvage Sancho's Utd career, who is after all our most talented attacker (violent protest in 3..2..1..).
He will not set the world alight, but he is old enough to not have anything to lose so he might take the job, and competent enough to implement some structure in the team, and again old enough that we can hire a more promising manager in the near future.
Last edited:
To be fair, as it was reported at the time, Caicedo was also high on the shortlist, but we pushed forward with Casemiro as we wanted a marquee midfielder.
Would probably be my pick if Ten Hag does go. Unfortunately, I could see the vocal critics of ETH immediately getting on Slot's back over his passport. We'd more than likely just do a full 180 again anyway, since spinning in circles is so much fun.
Ooops, he just got the backing of the board
I tend to agree that Favre as a coach could be a good fit for this squad. As we see they can't turn high turnovers into goals, and Favre would likely defend much deeper than EtH's first line does - should also give Rashford the space he needs and currently rarely gets. Sancho is a valid idea at least - but don't expect them to be buddies, Favre benched and banned him from the squad as well, albeit never for long.
Favre also is a manager who has proven that he can quickly stabilize struggling teams and considering how focused he is on details he should be able to improve a lot of players individually.
But the downside definitely is that he never appeared to have talent to deal with media circus and a lot of attention.
Back him at least through the worst defensive injury crisis in the PL. Equally because we have plenty of other problems it doesn’t mean Ten Hag is one his role may be symptomatic rather than casual.
Genuine question with those who were fully fit and available who do you think he could have played to get a result against City at the weekend?
Yes. See Greenwood, Ronaldo, Sancho and how Rashford was dealt with.
Despite our injuries we’ve improved one of the key aspects of being a transition side, our pressing is now amongst the best in the PL.
Absolutely there was clearly a desire to recruit more but how can a manger play a high line press effectively with Maguire and Evans? And I like both as players they’ve done a job for us.
Within context everything that is happening makes sense and so I’m hopeful when the context improves so too will the consistency of performance.
They were going to be with the squad for the season, he couldn't just freeze them out and in the case of Maguire literally had no other choice but to play him recently. With Scotts form, was hard to not play him and has played well against city previously.
The squad is the squad for the season though. I don't think they should be in the team, but the suggestion they shouldn't have played is a bit naive as well, when trying to manage an already shaky, squad morale.
Carrick. He'll be our Xavi.
Do you really call scoring 2 goals in a 5 minute cameo when we were throwing the sink at Brentford at home 'good form'? He played well against city in...january last year? How many times do you wanna get let down to understand that this guy needs to be kicked out?
Its utter naivety to believe that these had 'good' form against Sheffield, Brentford and Copenhagen. We barely won these games anyways so not sure what good form is these days. These have always let us down in important games, and will continue to do so.
Can you imagine going to Old Trafford and singing Xabi Alonso’s name
Stranger things have happened.Can you imagine going to Old Trafford and singing Xabi Alonso’s name