Who replaces Ten Hag?

[soapythecat]

People need to calm down on this. ETH is going nowhere. Even if we go on a 7 game losing streak, he would still be here:
Will cost a lot of money to replace - we don’t have it.
The injury list will see him get more time.
A suitable replacement will cost money we don’t have.
Won’t happen whilst takeover is going on.
History has told us the club waits until it really is a point of no return.

 

[stefan92]

They didn't fail mate. Both Mourinho and LVG won trophies. Moyes/Rangnick were never given enough time.
FOTM Ole, won nothing, despite of him had okay league record, the conclusion was he already hit his ceiling.

I think the big problem with United fans is that they only see long term success as success at all. Which isn't the way any other club operates. As long as a manager fulfills the requirements he is kept, when he stops to he is replaced. It's a pretty straightforward business and no one sees it as a failing club.

As you said, Mou won stuff, LVG did, Rangnick at least improved the team a bit and stabilized it. Moyes indeed made it a lot worse and Ole at least kept it at a reasonably high level for most of his time.

If you read the last decade like this you don't see that big an issue at first glance. But the true problem with United is that whenever a manager fails the club believes this to be a total failure and that everything needs to be replaced. No major new manager signing was to build on the existing team, they all got backed with a ridiculous amount of money to sign their own players and most other players are immediately seen as deadwood that needs to be replaced to allow the new manager to fulfill his vision.

This leads to United's squad getting worse while spending a lot of money every time United get a new manager. And I am quite sure that this also has an psychological effect on the players when some of them are seen as part of the manager's team and others are leftovers from an era before.

I just never get the feeling when United signs a new permanent manager that they say "This is your squad. Work with it".

 

[flameinthesun]

They didn't fail mate. Both Mourinho and LVG won trophies. Moyes/Rangnick were never given enough time.
FOTM Ole, won nothing, despite of him had okay league record, the conclusion was he already hit his ceiling and his legacy is non existent

If you look at why they "failed" you would see the scattered recruitment plan was what failed them. Unless De Zebri is a genius in transfer market himself then there's no point.

Not sure what point you're making as your second paragraph agrees with me, without a good structure around them (that includes the recruitment plan) then whether experienced, flavour of the month or amateur they will end up failing.

No manager has won or challenged for the league. Yes all except Ole have won a minor trophy but in reality its much of a muchness amongst all the managers in terms of league performances and champions league performances. Whether Ancelotti or De Zerbi, both will likely end up failing under the current structure (as Ancelotti struggled at Everton).

 

[Revaulx]

26 years? How do you work that out?

I was wrong: it’s 25 years: 1968-93. We finished second to Super Manchester City in 1968 by the same two point margin.

Our other second place finishes (1988 and 1992) involved bigger margins.

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

No manager has won or challenged for the league.

Mourinho at Chelsea averaged 84.5 points in two seasons, at United he averaged 75 points in two seasons.

The size of the gap isn't so massive that you'd think no manager can win a title with United.

 

[flameinthesun]

Mourinho at Chelsea averaged 84.5 points in two seasons, at United he averaged 75 points in two seasons.

The size of the gap isn't so massive that you'd think no manager can win a title with United.

I get your point but if the new standard is a minimum 90 points then that's the new standard. The point I'm making is we can talk about who was better/worse etc but the reality is they all pretty much performed similarly. LvG/Jose/EtH have the minor trophies, Ole has the 2nd place finishes and finals. I think Jose's Europa league win was good but tbh, its a much of a muchness between all of them. Neither got close to challenging for a league or Champions League. That's not to say they are all terrible managers, just that you have different styles and levels of experience amongst them yet all delivered similar results. Even EtH is trending to do the same which to me suggests that unless we happen to pick a once in a lifetime manager than can work magic under this structure, whoever we get will likely struggle as things stand.

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

I think you could look at it in two different ways:

• With United's dysfunctional structure, any manager has a -10 point penalty to their typical performance.
• With United's dysfunctional structure, there is hard upper limit which no manager will go above, no matter what their typical performance is.

If you believe the former you'll be more willing to switch managers. If you believe the latter, you'll be more focused on changing the structure.

I'm more tempted to believe in the former option, but I can understand people believing the latter (and it may well be the truth!).

 

[Woziak]

Mourinho at Chelsea averaged 84.5 points in two seasons, at United he averaged 75 points in two seasons.

The size of the gap isn't so massive that you'd think no manager can win a title with United.

Of course a new coach can win the EPL, these things run in cycles, a proper footballing structure at board level significantly improves the situation but it will take time.

If United’s wage bill is the highest in the EpL then by default the club should be challenging, last season with less injuries, and more importantly a situation which did not involve one of the best upcoming young players in world football, because if Greenwood had behaved like most decent human beings do and kicked on his career with ETH then United would have added at least another 8/10 points where goals were hard to come by, it’s all if’s and buts but the days of united overspending on aging recruits so Madrid can go buy the best young players are now over!

Sir Jim will not allow this and I can honestly say thank god, we’ve bought so many players and overpaid for them when clearly their Latin temperament are not suited long term for the additional intensity of the EPL.

Right now we are a million miles from challenging and yet within 2 weeks we could be in the top 5 if results improve, A real Football CEO and a real DOF will make a huge difference. Like Madrid United are one of the few clubs in world football who can build a new 100,000 seater stadium and still have a waiting list of 100,000 if the club starts to produce the football on the pitch that the fans demands.

Can a challenge happen in 1-2 years, no chance?
Can a title challenge happen in 3-5 years, it would have to or Sir Jim’s Gamble would have massively backfired!

 

[stefan92]

I think you could look at it in two different ways:

• With United's dysfunctional structure, any manager has a -10 point penalty to their typical performance.
• With United's dysfunctional structure, there is hard upper limit which no manager will go above, no matter what their typical performance is.

If you believe the former you'll be more willing to switch managers. If you believe the latter, you'll be more focused on changing the structure.

I'm more tempted to believe in the former option, but I can understand people believing the latter (and it may well be the truth!).

If you acknowledge that any manager gets less results at United than elsewhere, isn't that proof that you should get rid of that penalty?

 

[Woziak]

People need to calm down on this. ETH is going nowhere. Even if we go on a 7 game losing streak, he would still be here:
Will cost a lot of money to replace - we don’t have it.
The injury list will see him get more time.
A suitable replacement will cost money we don’t have.
Won’t happen whilst takeover is going on.
History has told us the club waits until it really is a point of no return.

He’s lost 9 out of 17, if he loses against Luton at home he’s gone , as soon as we have no chance of CL he’s gone so he has to come third at least in the group or he’s gone, lose against Everton he’s gone?

The man is a lose canon with transfers and new minority owners are coming in with an intent to improve things instantly so changing the manager if he’s lost 12 out of 20/21 games is a relatively easy quick fix !

 

[Blood Mage]

Who is the better fit out of Amorim/De Zerbi

I prefer Anorim but we'll see what happens.

 

[glasgow 21]

Flavor of the month. Both would face the same struggle as ETH

Alonso being an ex Liverpool player excludes him for me no matter how good his upwards curve is.

 

[Telsim]

Ten Hag isn't long for this club, it's clear now. The air of inevitability and desperation has only become increasingly denser.

What worries me is the cretins in charge might decade to replace him with Graham Potter, since he is one of the few out of a job managers. And I'd rather stick with Ten Hag in that case.

 

[dinostar77]

People need to calm down on this. ETH is going nowhere. Even if we go on a 7 game losing streak, he would still be here:
Will cost a lot of money to replace - we don’t have it.
The injury list will see him get more time.
A suitable replacement will cost money we don’t have.
Won’t happen whilst takeover is going on.
History has told us the club waits until it really is a point of no return.

He aint getting fired. They will wait for Ratcliffe stuff to happen first. Even then i expect ratcliffe to give him time under "new management" i.e. his team of people.

Maybe look at it, at the end of the season. Glazers dont fire unless CL spot is a mathematical impossibility.

 

[soapythecat]

He aint getting fired. They will wait for Ratcliffe stuff to happen first. Even then i expect ratcliffe to give him time under "new management" i.e. his team of people.

Maybe look at it, at the end of the season. Glazers dont fire unless CL spot is a mathematical impossibility.

From what we are been told, I expect it will be the Ineos team that will be in charge of hiring and firing. They may choose to act earlier. Who knows, but he’s safe for now.

 

[Rojofiam]

They didn't fail mate. Both Mourinho and LVG won trophies. Moyes/Rangnick were never given enough time.
FOTM Ole, won nothing, despite of him had okay league record, the conclusion was he already hit his ceiling and his legacy is non existent

If you look at why they "failed" you would see the scattered recruitment plan was what failed them. Unless De Zebri is a genius in transfer market himself then there's no point.

Mourinho and LVG didn't fail? Please tell me you're joking.

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

If you acknowledge that any manager gets less results at United than elsewhere, isn't that proof that you should get rid of that penalty?

Easier said than done!

 

[stefan92]

Easier said than done!

True. That's why we all put our opinions here instead of being CEO of a big football club

 

[Socratic]

Last game at home for a month.

Fair chance Ten Hag won’t be back at Old Trafford with the run of fixtures.

 

[UnitedSofa]

Last game at home for a month.

Fair chance Ten Hag won’t be back at Old Trafford with the run of fixtures.

that's the spirit!

 

[Redstain]

Who is the better fit out of Amorim/De Zerbi

I would take De Zerbi but he's somewhat in a period where he needs to turn around results. The mark of a great manager is always in pivoting poor performances. Amorim did have a below par season with Sporting and now is back to strength. I just have a few reservations with his team's attacking play as he's been pragmatic previous but still a good prospect nonetheless.

 

[Redstain]

People need to calm down on this. ETH is going nowhere. Even if we go on a 7 game losing streak, he would still be here:
Will cost a lot of money to replace - we don’t have it.
The injury list will see him get more time.
A suitable replacement will cost money we don’t have.
Won’t happen whilst takeover is going on.
History has told us the club waits until it really is a point of no return.

I don't think so that's unstable territory, the only thing that would keep him in place under those circumstances would be Ratcliffe still not being sworn in and Murtough not being able to pull the plug due his own uncertainty with the job.

I hope the manager and team pick up results within the next month or so I've stated my prediction of Erik's position being untenable by March but I hope it's not the case in all honesty. As long as the performances improve that's where all the focus should be. If United lose select few games with good performances than there's a case to overlook the short-term but things need to improve drastically.

 

[Chumpsbechumps]

So is the spurs manager still the flavour of the month after losing 2 games ?

I can’t keep up with all these supposedly “far superior managers” who would apparently make United so much better cause they go on a decent run of games. Do we judge them on todays game or them winning the “first 10 games of league” competition?

 

[M Bison]

So is the spurs manager still the flavour of the month after losing 2 games ?

I can’t keep up with all these supposedly “far superior managers” who would apparently make United so much better cause they go on a decent run of games. Do we judge them on todays game or them winning the “first 10 games of league” competition?

It’s Gary O’Neil now (tbf he’s done a brilliant job!)

 

[DJ_21]

I’d like De Zerbi, if we ever got rid of ETH. Don’t want that to happen yet though…

 

[zaafi]

This fecking guy. A clown. What manager chases a player all summer, only to not play him against Luton? If not against them, then who will he play against? Shitshow.

 

[dinostar77]

This fecking guy. A clown. What manager chases a player all summer, only to not play him against Luton? If not against them, then who will he play against? Shitshow.

Hopefully once INEOS come in, Ten Hag wont be allowesd to sign players that the club scouting department said not to sign. Antony a prime example.

 

[bosniamanutd]

i have been reading lately about Zidane as a replacement of ETH.

 

[croadyman]

Hopefully once INEOS come in, Ten Hag wont be allowesd to sign players that the club scouting department said not to sign. Antony a prime example.

Yeah Antony is the biggest stick to beat him with

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

Yeah Antony is the biggest stick to beat him with

I can actually partly forgive the Antony fiasco as the purchase came so early into his tenure you could fairly argue he didn’t know the league.

What I find completely unforgivable is managing in the league for a season, seeing the physical decline of Casemiro up close & putting forward Mount/Amrabat as the must have midfielders.

Antony is an easy target, he’s been a horrendous signing but a competent footballing set up would have gone with the scouting report instead of feeding to a new manager but he was ‘his man’.

The profile of player that EtH has identified is alarming. Antony, Malacia, Mount, Eriksen [though again understandable give free agent status], Martinez [played well but undersized], even Onana is short for a GK, Amrabat who struggles to run. He seemingly still doesnt understand the physicality of the league.

 

[Plant0x84]

Why is Rúben Amorim better than Sérgio Conceição?

Because this is the Caf and nobody here can spell ten Haag or Mackgwire, let alone a freaky deaky Dutch name like Sergio Concretecow.

 

[croadyman]

I can actually partly forgive the Antony fiasco as the purchase came so early into his tenure you could fairly argue he didn’t know the league.

What I find completely unforgivable is managing in the league for a season, seeing the physical decline of Casemiro up close & putting forward Mount/Amrabat as the must have midfielders.

Antony is an easy target, he’s been a horrendous signing but a competent footballing set up would have gone with the scouting report instead of feeding to a new manager but he was ‘his man’.

The profile of player that EtH has identified is alarming. Antony, Malacia, Mount, Eriksen [though again understandable give free agent status], Martinez [played well but undersized], even Onana is short for a GK, Amrabat who struggles to run. He seemingly still doesnt understand the physicality of the league.

Yeah an athletic and mobile DM was a much bigger priority than the club realised

 

[Martialization]

I just don't see a style of play from us. The problem with keeping Ten Hag is even if we spend another 200m, does anyone see us improving alot. I feel like just ETH see out the season before pulling the trigger if nothing improves cause our season is basically over anyways.

 

[Plant0x84]

Gone back over the Permanent manager thread from 20/21. Interesting and amusing in equal measure.
Lots of you weirdos shouting for Hassenhuttl. Some even wanted Rangnick to get the gig permanently.
There was an early acceptance that Poch was likely to be the chosen option, but EtH quickly got a ground swell of backing and many were creaming their jocks for him. He was the overwhelming choice of the Caf poll, the hipster choice of the time and many were putting about his Ajax team and his style of play - even comparing him to the greatest manager of all.
You'd assume based on that, that he is worth a bit more time before we just discard him.

 

[Garnacho's Shoelaces]

Undecided!

Should we sack him now? After Chrismas? In May?

Only sack when there's a worthy replacement. Anything else sends us into Interim FC cycle once again and is wasted time that EtH *might* turn it around in.

 

[Berbaclass]

Gone back over the Permanent manager thread from 20/21. Interesting and amusing in equal measure.
Lots of you weirdos shouting for Hassenhuttl. Some even wanted Rangnick to get the gig permanently.
There was an early acceptance that Poch was likely to be the chosen option, but EtH quickly got a ground swell of backing and many were creaming their jocks for him. He was the overwhelming choice of the Caf poll, the hipster choice of the time and many were putting about his Ajax team and his style of play - even comparing him to the greatest manager of all.
You'd assume based on that, that he is worth a bit more time before we just discard him.

Still stand by that. He figured the club out in 5 minutes and was turfed out because those in power weren't willing to listen.

 

[crossy1686]

Only sack when there's a worthy replacement. Anything else sends us into Interim FC cycle once again and is wasted time that EtH *might* turn it around in.

Who's the worthy replacement? How can you do a proper interview process when we already have a manager in place? Shall we start talking the best young managers in Europe while Ten Hag still has a job? Would that be fair?

 

[glasgow 21]

Who's the worthy replacement? How can you do a proper interview process when we already have a manager in place? Shall we start talking the best young managers in Europe while Ten Hag still has a job? Would that be fair?

Knowing our luck Southgate will head the list if he manages to flook a Euro final. So if we are removing ETH can we do it now so that isn't an option.

 

[Plant0x84]

Knowing our luck Southgate will head the list if he manages to flook a Euro final. So if we are removing ETH can we do it now so that isn't an option.

We’re not.

 

[THE ZOL]

The whole “but there is no alternative” argument reminds me why United are really a small club in comparison to actual big teams like Real Madrid, Barcelona and FC Bayern.

Those teams pull the plug immediately as soon as things start to look bad a preventative measure in order to limit the damage. In recent years, Bayern sacked Niko Kovac, Julian Nagelsmann and even the great Carlo Ancelotti mid-season. Barcelona sacked Koeman recently. Real Madrid sack managers even after they win the league.

These clubs do not operate with the notion that an underperforming manager should be kept on just because there is a dearth of readily established managers on the market. They operate on the notion that it is unacceptable for the standards of performance to drop. Those clubs are high-pressure environments where it doesn’t matter who you are, if the standards drop, you will be shown the door.

And then you wonder why United players are so comfortable with downing tools! They see that there are no consequences for underperformance at a managerial level and this is reflected on the pitch!

Let us also take a look who Bayern, Barcelona and Real Madrid replaced underperforming managers with at times when there were no clear alternatives.

-Hansi Flick replaced Kovac. Flick was a nobody. The most he did as a manager was fail to reach the second-tier of the Bundesliga four times at Hoffenheim, before being an assistant at the national team and Bayern under Kovac. He won Bayern the UCL and the league at every attempt.

-Zidane replaced Benitez. Zidane was previously Carlo Ancelotti’s assistant and a nobody in management. We all know what he achieved.

-Xavi replaced Koeman. He was previously working in Qatar. He has got Barca playing how they should again.

But United? Our fans want us to wait until it is statistically impossible for us to finish in a Champions League spot, by which stage most of the playing squad is already demotivated and in the grips of a crisis of confidence.

Of course, it is not a given that the replacement manager will be as successful as Flick or Zidane. There are also the times when Madrid got Lopetegui or Barca got Quique Setien. But as soon as their regime hit crisis points, it became untenable as their board rightly identified that accepting such low standards would become a habit. And so they were replaced by underwhelming hiring to underwhelming hiring until they stumbled upon the right one.

United must adopt this approach and start being more ruthless instead of accepting a failing regime and low standards.