Who will be the next out of Juventus, Bayern, PSG and Celtic to fail to win their league? Poll added

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

Probably Juve or Bayern. I could see Inter or Dortmund putting together a title winning campaign eventually. Unless Bayern cherry pick some of Dortmund’s best players again.

France and Scotland are dead leagues.

 

[Rozay]

Bayern did in 2013?

They had not won multiple titles in a row at the time, is my point. Dortmund won it the year before did they not?

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

Probably Juve or Bayern. I could see Inter or Dortmund putting together a title winning campaign eventually. Unless Bayern cherry pick some of Dortmund’s best players again.

France and Scotland are dead leagues.

Still it was Monaco that last broke the dominance in these leagues. Germany and Italy feels equally dead.
Maybe not Italy as you see some sides that should be able to challenge now.

 

[SilentWitness]

I don't think you can take this conclusion based on the quality and competition present in one league. For all the talk about the PL's competitiveness how many titles have title contenders won in the past 10 years?

It's a flawed argument.

I'm not arguing about which league is more competitive than another though, nor the competitiveness of the overall league. Rather that being involved in a competitive title challenge in your league probably helps in more cases than not of CL winners. Of course there will be teams that will also be involved in a competitive title challenge but don't win the CL but that's probably down to another team being better than them so other factors will come into play and I don't think any title win/cup win is down to one factor but multiple.

In 07/08 when United won the CL there were 4 points between the top 3.
08/09 when Barca won the CL they won La Liga by 9 points.
Inter in 09/10 won Serie A by 2 points.
10/11 Barca won by 4 points.
Chelsea in 11-12 came 6th (Major difference to most of the recent winners).
12-13 Bayern won by 25 points (also only lost 1 game) (Another major difference).
13-14 Madrid were 3rd but 3 points behind the winner.
14-15 Barca won by 2 points.
15-16 Madrid were 2nd but a point behind the winner and 2 ahead of 3rd.
16-17 Madrid won La Liga by 3 points.
17-18 Madrid were 3rd, 17 points behind the leaders.
18-19 Liverpool were 2nd but a point behind the winner.

So that's 8 to 4 in terms of relative competitiveness of the title race compared to teams that won it by either dominating their league/performing poorly in their league but winning it. As I said before, I think that competitiveness probably is a factor in most teams who win the CL but it isn't the only one. Of course there will be elements of luck or a team being very very good in their own right without it mattering how other teams perform and other variants but the competiveness on all fronts probably helps in some format and translates across all competitions.

I think that if teams like Juventus/Bayern/PSG want to win the CL then it would probably help if their own league was a bit more difficult to win than it currently is. The competiveness they'd face in that could help translate into more competitiveness in the CL.

 

[EngimaMK]

I don't think you can take this conclusion based on the quality and competition present in one league. For all the talk about the PL's competitiveness how many titles have title contenders won in the past 10 years?

It's a flawed argument.

If Liverpool win this year, then 5 different winners over last 10 years

That's a lot

 

[adexkola]

And rating the competitiveness of a league solely by the title race is a bit dumb. Ligue 1 is highly competitive. PSG is much better than the others but the final position of the others is in continuous flux.

Competitiveness doesn't determine performance in the CL. Actual quality does. And if you look at teams who have reached the final 4, they are dominated by the very teams being denigrated in this thread. They're actually good... It just takes a little luck to win it all.

 

[RedDevilRoshi]

Probably Juve with Bayern a close 2nd.

Celtic & PSG could give everyone in their leagues a 20 point head start and they’d still win it.

 

[adexkola]

If Liverpool win this year, then 5 different winners over last 10 years

That's a lot

CL titles.

The point of this thread/mini-discussion is to correlate title race competitiveness to performances in the CL. (I may be mistaken there)

 

[EngimaMK]

CL titles.

The point of this thread/mini-discussion is to correlate title race competitiveness to performances in the CL. (I may be mistaken there)

Ah, i see. Apologies, misinterpreted your point.

 

[adexkola]

@SilentWitness right so I'm not saying competitiveness is definitely not a factor (I hate double negatives). 8 to 4 sounds compelling on the surface, however I'm willing to wager (will have to dig on this) that some of those title races (especially in La Liga) were settled a long time before the end of the season. I know in 07/08 and 18/19 the title chase occurred until the end of the season, I'm gonna see for the others and update this when I do.

But I think if you're involved in a quality title race then that means you're a great team. Liverpool last season and Chelsea in 2008 were great teams, which is why they ran the winners close, and made the final at least (with Liverpool winning it). Competitiveness may be a factor, I'm willing to concede that.

 

[adexkola]

Anyway I'm voting for PSG

 

[André Dominguez]

Juventus if Inter can keep up the pace next season.

I think Celtic is the safest option mainly because the technical level of Celtic is not that higher. Usually in second/third tier leagues a top 4 team only needs to be lucky enough to make a couple of signings who work like charms all season and lead them to an unexpected title.

 

[Jam]

I don't think you can take this conclusion based on the quality and competition present in one league. For all the talk about the PL's competitiveness how many titles have title contenders won in the past 10 years?

It's a flawed argument.

How many titles have title contenders contended if title contenders could contend?

 

[adexkola]

How many titles have title contenders contended if title contenders could contend?

jog on ye

 

[tomaldinho1]

Juve if they keep Sarri

I feel a bit sorry for Dortmund. People forget the reason it was close in the Bundesliga this year was purely down to Kovac's shabby form early on. Form since Flick started is staggeringly good, they have won 26 out of 29 games across all comps (for reference Pep's best was 22 out of 27) and more impressively given the bad start, they also set a new Bundesliga goal record.

 

[Offside]

Juve are going to lose the league this season.

 

[Sean_RedDevil]

Only Inter Milan will have a chance to stop Juventus.

Bayern Munich, PSG and Celtic will win their leagues 100% next season again.

However the Super League will come in the next years

 

[dbs235]

I'd be the least confident in Juve next season especially with Ronaldo being another year older. So hard to see PSG not winning their league and I doubt Rangers can close the gap with Celtic. Bayern look like they'll be even better next year so I'd guess 9 in a row for them.

 

[Rozay]

Yea, you’d have to say Juventus are the overwhelming favourites to fail next. They may not even win it this season, but the real long/medium term threat from Inter is a very real one.

They have both the money and recent prestige (they have won the CL more recently than Juventus), and the only team in Italy who could probably pull off similar level of signings. £75m on Lukaku is the type of signing only Juve have made in recent times. None of the second teams in the other leagues like France and Germany could make such deals. They are fighting Juve for Tonali, who is probably the biggest talent in Italy. Inter are the smart money.

 

[redshaw]

Still looks like Juve is the closest to this happening in the coming years with Conte/Inter but don't have hopes for any of these leagues. If Rangers can keep going maybe they can get the odd one in a top two chase. Bayern had a drop but then managed to correct themselves.

Love how PSG have zero votes.

 

[strongwalker]

Bayern got lucky this season imo.

Dortmund have their flaws and depends if they keep Sancho but think they'll be stronger next season so could put up really good challenge again. Bayern replacing a few of their old guard aswell.

Dortmund is struggling hard to maintain their quality year after year and that will remain so. Anyo e thinks Sancho, Haaland etc will still play there 2 years from now? It's a proper shopping window club. Before they win the title, Leipzig does.

 

[BalanceUnAutreJoint]

If there was managerial quality in France I'd easily go with Ligue 1.

Voting Juventus as things stand.

 

[Dancfc]

It will be Juve or Celtic. At some point Conte will find a way by hook or by crook (Lazio may even do so before him) and at one point Rangers will be highly motivated while Celtic will lack the same hunger (similar to what's happened with Liverpool and City this year although less of a gap obviously), probably after 10 in a row.

A lot can change in a short space of time though, this time last year i'd have confidently said Bayern but Flick's work has changed all that.

 

[Morty_]

Juventus, probably, not even sure they will win it this year, Sarri and Juventus looks like a bad combo.

 

[Sean_RedDevil]

Only Inter Milan will have a chance to stop Juventus.

Bayern Munich, PSG and Celtic will win their leagues 100% next season again.

However the Super League will come in the next years

I change my opinion to "All of them will win their leagues 100% next season again".

 

[strongwalker]

So much respect for Dortmund... They've profited from the Kovac mistake, which is not going to repeat itself any time soon, and a few very lucky signings who won't stay for long. Imo it is more likely that a team like Leipzig with their lemonade money decides its time to attack, keep some of their talent instead of selling them on, and pass BVB, maybe even Bayern, than Dortmund seriously threatening BM over a full season (and definitely not with Favre)

 

[JamesB__]

Definitely Juventus but not looking likely to be this season.

 

[Rozay]

Another clean sweep confirmed tonight. These titles are surely becoming embarrassing to even celebrate now.

 

[adexkola]

Another clean sweep confirmed tonight. These titles are surely becoming embarrassing to even celebrate now.

Were you embarrassed celebrating 3-peat league wins in 2001 or 2009? Were you happy when Arsenal/Chelsea won the titles in 2002/2010?

 

[Rozay]

Were you embarrassed celebrating 3-peat league wins in 2001 or 2009? Were you happy when Arsenal/Chelsea won the titles in 2002/2010?

No. Ask me after another 6 on top of that, in seasons where I know from the beginning that I will be in this position come May and I may have a different answer.

 

[Rozay]

Two seasons on, looks like Celtic are about to be the first to fall. Few minutes away, but if not today - certainly any week now.

Interestingly, in this ‘unusual season’ we hear so much about - it’s quite feasible that all 4 could fall this year. As the cliché will inevitably go - this is ‘good for football’. Although it is debatable whether this is the result of great teams getting weaker, or the others improving. Certainly in the case of Juventus it isn’t clear cut.

 

[The Corinthian]

I think Bayern will retain the Bundesliga, but can see PSG and Juve also joining Celtic in not retaining their league title.

 

[GhastlyHun]

Leipzig are in a very good position. If they manage a win against Bayern, they may just win the whole thing.

 

[Rozay]

Celtic and Juventus confirmed so far, PSG hanging on too.

This is what we want to see anyway, teams winning 10 in a row all across Europe is a joke.

 

[Dave Smith]

Celtic and Juventus confirmed so far, PSG hanging on too.

This is what we want to see anyway, teams winning 10 in a row all across Europe is a joke.

Indeed it is good to see. Unfortunately in Germany Bayern are like the Empire in Star Wars without a Rebel Alliance as they have figured out as soon as they spot a Rebel, they can just get him to join them; usually on a free.

 

[Dancfc]

Hopefully this ends this nonsense that anyone can win with the best team.

 

[Chicken United 7]

Hopefully this ends this nonsense that anyone can win with the best team.

In fairness, Rangers and Inter, player for player, are better than Celtic and Juventus respectively. Take a look at their squads. Lille or Monaco beating PSG would be a seismic shock though. Tuchel and Poch should be ashamed of themselves if that happens. A close to Billion pound squad against squads built for less than £100m.

 

[Dancfc]

In fairness, Rangers and Inter, player for player, are better than Celtic and Juventus respectively. Take a look at their squads. Lille or Monaco beating PSG would be a seismic shock though. Tuchel and Poch should be ashamed of themselves if that happens. A close to Billion pound squad against squads built for less than £100m.

Even if that's the case it would be largely because they squandered a position of strength by poor recruitment, bad appointments and/or letting the team stagnate/lose motivation.

Maintaining dominance isn't half as easy as people think even with the best team/best resourced club.

 

[Buchan]

Some fantastic thread-jinxing here, lads.

Add City next, please. Ta.

 

[giorno]

In fairness, Rangers and Inter, player for player, are better than Celtic and Juventus respectively. Take a look at their squads. Lille or Monaco beating PSG would be a seismic shock though. Tuchel and Poch should be ashamed of themselves if that happens. A close to Billion pound squad against squads built for less than £100m.

Yes, by all means take a look at inter and juventus squads