Gehrman
Phallic connoisseur, unlike shamans
- Joined
- Feb 20, 2019
- Messages
- 11,158
Klopp. Can compete on a budget. Pep has an near unlimited budget.
That’s not exactly scientific though, considering Tuchel took over an infinitely better squad than Klopp.Tuchel needs less time to make biggest impact.
@RedRonaldo has a point I think. Tuchel is the most flexible regarding the style of play he implements, he will find a way to get something out of any squad. Guardiola and Klopp do have a bit more "identity" to their teams and may require some transfers to change the squad.That’s not exactly scientific though, considering Tuchel took over an infinitely better squad than Klopp.
A new manager coming into United now and quickly turning us around and making us consistent wouldn’t be proof either of “turning it around quicker”.
Do mean in terms of tactics? He’s probably the most possession obsessed coach I can think of as I’m too young to have known Cruyff, LVG, Michels in their pomp.Has there ever been a coach as dominant as Pep?
I know he hasn't won many CLs but purely in terms of dominating any opponent (even direct rivals), is there anyone his equal?
Tactics and eye test basically. I have rarely seen Pep properly outplayed.Do mean in terms of tactics? He’s probably the most possession obsessed coach I can think of as I’m too young to have known Cruyff, LVG, Michels in their pomp.
His head to heads are actually quite poor when you think he’s always in the best seat. For his domestic rivals he’s got an inferior record versus Tuchel and Klopp & was even with Ole…I guess he’s now even with Poch at PSG.
Yeah it’s super rare, although it depends on how you define being outplayed because it almost never happens that he won’t have the most possession but, for example, Real beat his Bayern team 5-0 on aggregate in the CL.Tactics and eye test basically. I have rarely seen Pep properly outplayed.
I mean, just this season, he's gone to Anfield and Stamford Bridge, and for vast periods in both games, made the home teams (world class, elite sides with elite managers) look like Stoke hanging on for a point.Tactics and eye test basically. I have rarely seen Pep properly outplayed.
They'll be playing a way better brand of football and would have won trophies IMO.It fully depends on the squad.
I think if Pep was coaching these United players he’d quickly be carried out of Carrington in a straitjacket chanting “so happy, so happy” over and over.
@SirReginald hinted at this in the Tuchel thread and I agree with him, each manager discussed is tailor fit for their club. All WC though (even if how you order them may differ)Yet I don't think any supporter of these clubs would swap their manager for one of the others.
I know a few city fans who would. But they are an odd bunch. I doubt I could find any Chelsea or Liverpool fans who would though.Yet I don't think any supporter of these clubs would swap their manager for one of the others.
He has a supreme set of training methods, which tend to dominate the opposition but he has also an almost unlimited ability to stack his squad and find the right players (i.e it gives him multiple chances and solutions) to implement it.I mean, just this season, he's gone to Anfield and Stamford Bridge, and for vast periods in both games, made the home teams (world class, elite sides with elite managers) look like Stoke hanging on for a point.
For all his flaws and valid criticisms (can he do it at Norwich is not one of them), it's something that's stood out to me as a distinct quality of his. You get it with Barcelona, he has prime Messaviesta... go look at his current team and tell me they have a divine right to dictate play to such extent, with a straight face. Yeah, that Rodri fella from Simeone's Atletico and Silva guy from Jardim's Monaco... So good at strangling possession. Whatever he does in training (rondos!!!), it works.
I know City squad is bigger with better quality but Liverpool have their Rodri, Dias, Grealish in Fabinho, Konate, Thiago, Naby Keita, etc.He has a supreme set of training methods, which tend to dominate the opposition but he has also an almost unlimited ability to stack his squad and find the right players (i.e it gives him multiple chances and solutions) to implement it.
Imagine if Klopp was able to replace Wijnaldum with Rodri, Milner with Grealish, Matip with Dias, Shaqiri with Sane/Silva/Mahrez etc season after season.
I'm not sure Pep's team would fair so well against Klopp (who has his number anyways) or others if the spending playing field was level.
At any other club, Pep's current team today would be still be relying on Bernado Silva, Laporte, Fernandinho and KDB as the first choice squad and not the names mentioned above who are certified replacements and/or first class rotation options.
When did this happen?Tuchel even the players Chelsea would have considered fringe he's making use out of them. Chelsea look a typical well drilled, well coached and disciplined team. Not the most possession crazy football but very effective in attacking phases. Out of the German newcomers Tuchel has blown Naglesman and Rose out the park. Best manager in world football today.
Klopp I feel would be more effective if allocated more resources. It's not mentioned much but I think FSG give the Glazers are close run for inept management.
To be fair I can understand them. They want the CL title and Pep has not won that in a long time, Tuchel and Klopp recently have.I know a few city fans who would. But they are an odd bunch. I doubt I could find any Chelsea or Liverpool fans who would though.
Completely different ownership models and approaches. FSG get some online abuse (Twitter crybabies) for not forking out regularly on big signings but they work very well with Klopp and the Director of Football, Michael Edwards. The data-driven approach has reaped rewards - steeped in a long-term strategy; less inclined to go for sticking plater solutions. This can frustrate fans who use transfer windows as the mark of success rather than on-field performance.Tuchel even the players Chelsea would have considered fringe he's making use out of them. Chelsea look a typical well drilled, well coached and disciplined team. Not the most possession crazy football but very effective in attacking phases. Out of the German newcomers Tuchel has blown Naglesman and Rose out the park. Best manager in world football today.
Klopp I feel would be more effective if allocated more resources. It's not mentioned much but I think FSG give the Glazers are close run for inept management.
Most of them say they don't even care about the CL. They just think he's a bellend and the fact that he's mentioned empty seats in his interviews has really pissed them off.To be fair I can understand them. They want the CL title and Pep has not won that in a long time, Tuchel and Klopp recently have.
Yup, Thiago missed 35% of his games at Bayern due to injuries, Konate in the last 2 years has missed 46 games due to injuries and Chamberlain if I'm not mistaken also missed a lot at Arsenal due to injuries. They're problem is they've target players who had injury concern and now are dealing with that, which they're scouting department should've notice, either they bought them because of Klopp or both parties agreed on these targets.I know City squad is bigger with better quality but Liverpool have their Rodri, Dias, Grealish in Fabinho, Konate, Thiago, Naby Keita, etc.
People always try to paint that Liverpool squad as similar to the Watfords of this world. I’m not having that.
And that he constantly talks up Barca. Like with the Agüero move.Most of them say they don't even care about the CL. They just think he's a bellend and the fact that he's mentioned empty seats in his interviews has really pissed them off.
And he spent 40M on Konate who played just 4 times in PL+CL so far. YOu can have all the money in the world but that won't you gurantee success (Ole).Unfortunately Klopp and it's not even close. He has done way more with a more limited squad of players
This thread just include tuchel to just belittle him. He will get eligibility to come into it only after winning the pl. So no comparison as of now. Yet I won't take either pep or Klopp to manage chelsea right now.Tuchel is not in this contest for me. His teams are much more playable. They are not as intense out of possession and it inevitably allows you to get more of a foothold in the game.
on their day, both Klopp and Pep canrun you ragged both in and out of possession for 90 minutes. Neither coach accommodates ego and demands work rate and commitment all across the pitch First. Watching players with the talent of Bernardo and Mahrez etc busting a gut in the 70th minute of a match last nightreally highlighted our basic limitations. We look tired after 20 minutes in comparison. Klopp and Pep make thoroughly ordinary players into integral parts of a jigsaw...we make incredibly talented players look lazy and ineffective.
Tuchel seems more functional as a coach with teams less likely to go to war for him. However in a one off final, Tuchel‘s adaptability would cause me more concern. At least with Pep and Klopp you know exactly what you’re coming up against.
It’s an interesting question. But he’s won two CLs. That’s as much as any manager in history apart from 3 guys. So I wouldn’t say that he hasn’t won many CLs. I mean he’s won more than Klopp and Tuchel for starters.Has there ever been a coach as dominant as Pep?
I know he hasn't won many CLs but purely in terms of dominating any opponent (even direct rivals), is there anyone his equal?
Honestly, I wouldn't think too much about it. The simple fact that he has forced Chelsea into the same sentences as City and Liverpool in the short period of time he has been with us is a testament of the awesome work he has done so far and his managerial capabilities. Tuchel will always be underrated regardless of what he achieves, fine by us, as long as we are the ones benefiting from those achievements.This thread just include tuchel to just belittle him. He will get eligibility to come into it only after winning the pl. So no comparison as of now. Yet I won't take either pep or Klopp to manage chelsea right now.
Tuchel more suited to our over all set up. Has adaptability and aim is to win now and improving the squad he got.
I don't know what you are talking about intense and chelsea are playable but Klopp or pep not.On our day we too unplayable not even allow opponents a shot on target. City found it in cl final liverpool found it last season. So not sure what do you mean.