I read that even then, there is no clause. Many sources, different stories
Who's attainable if we were to spend big and improve our squad?
- Thread starter ROFLUTION
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That has to do with the difference between organisations as well as City cooking the books. Our wage bill includes every single employee, and we are a huge company.
Our wage bill is the healthiest in the whole league, being the lowest proportion of turnover. Any suggestion that our wage bill is out of control is plainly false. The only thing stopping us is the Premiere league regulation of increasing wage bill by a certain maximum.
Man City's wage bill is 55% of their turnover, while ours is 45%. This is all the while City have cooked their sponsorships and are most likely hiding operational costs.
Football by numbers is fun though, especially when discussing the number of trophies Spurs have won recently.
You are not the first one who thinks like that and i don't understand it. Are we Burnley or Everton? Selling club? We need class now. Especially in defence. If 100 mil will get you world class defender in next 5 years then if you are Man Utd( or Real or Barca or Juve...) then you buy that. And except Ronaldo( who forced that transfer), when we sold player at his peak? And why would we even do that? Our goal is to have best players in the world. While player is world class and can be sold for huge money, we must keep him. When he is not good, we should sell him. But then buying clubs are not tier 1 or even tier 2 clubs. So we will not get some big money for player.
I agree with huge wage bill. But it is not because we pay big for class player. It is because average players have big salaries. But this summer we have chance to fix that. Don't renew contracts with 7,8 squad players plus sell some players.
I did not state this. I said that we have the highest wage bill in the league, which is correct, regardless which number one uses. Including administrative personnel or not, its not going to make a big difference.
That said: I have been convinced for a couple of years that City is using "different" ways of reimbursing their players. I dont believe for one second what came forth about Mancinis "consultancy" agreement was a one-off. But thats another thing until its proven.
What you do bring forth is the PL-rules on increasing wage bills though, which is a good point and I should have mentioned it myself, since it is probably the major reason why we cant just bring in older players on high wages without hampering what we can do going forward.
Yes, that is what I believe has to do with the selling before buying we did in the transfer window just gone.
We must move on 2 defenders if we want to get a big defender in to stay in line with wage bill rules. Jones and Rojo would be the obvious candidates, but pretty much every defender is fair game considering how bad they have been this season.
OK, I will bite on this. Fair points, btw.
The narrative of average players having big salaries is not correct IMO. Not anymore. The major part of our wage budget constitutes of players like Pogba, Sanchez, Lukaku and Matic (soon to be joined by De Gea hopefully). Add Fellaini and Lingard who has renewed their contracts recently and you have the major part of our wage budget.
Players like Jones, Rojo, Smalling, Mata, Herrera, Darmian, etc that are usually on relatively small money in todays market. There is a reason that the club is waiting to renew contracts for these players until the last minute. Its because they dont cost much in todays market.
One needs to compare what it would cost to upgrade a Darmian for example in todays market. One can joke and say that he is shite, but he is an Italian international, not that old and not so shite that people wants to make him out to be. We would need to double his wages to upgrade him I would argue.
Just some food for thought....
You guys know that defenders usually stay in the game far longer than other players bar GK right ? Defenders usually stay in rhe game till their 35-36. They peak late and their peak extend longer. They don't usually need to run behind or keep chasing players like midfielders. They need to be great in the box, imposing in aerial and ground duels, contain attackers and know where to position and when to tackle to stop the attack, all these don't decline by age, not much anyway.
If we want to get the best of the best and secure a position we need to pay and we will need to pay a lot. Kouilbaly is arguably one of the best defenders in the world, maybe even the best and we want to back from hm because he's 28, something that's not even that important in his position, and we saw loads and loads of defenders staying till very late age in their position.
Ed isn't going to spend +70 on an unknown youngster or someone who is still coming like what Chelsea did with Kepa, that's not his style in his market, so if we're not going to spend +100m on proven and quality players because they are +27 in age, that will leave us with very limited pool of choices to sign and it's not going to end well.
I'm telling you the 100-120m on Kouilbaly will be one of our best buys. He's far better than Toby too.
Spending big on a player for the current manager in the January window will decrease the amount we can spend in summer under a new manager.
Letting JM spend big on a player now serves no purpose. There are few/none indications that we will be able to turn around with the current management(The same can be said regarding CEO/Owners as well). Save the money for the next manager and hopefully a DoF to spend.
Letting JM spend big on a player now serves no purpose. There are few/none indications that we will be able to turn around with the current management(The same can be said regarding CEO/Owners as well). Save the money for the next manager and hopefully a DoF to spend.
More of the short-term focus. Try looking at Spurs' overall record on transfer bargains since Pochettino arrived.
No. What I've said is that United lack a long-term strategy to rebuild a dynasty and instead have focused on a series of attempted quick fixes.
Whatever you like to say about Spurs, we at least have a clear, long-term strategic plan, one that began when we first broke soil in building our new training centre.
United's long-term strategy will have to quite different to ours, not least because the option of building a new stadium doesn't seem to be open to you. But first you need actually decide on a long-term strategy.
Market has changed significantly during that time. You can not compare 2016 with 2018.
That's what people said in 2016 compared to 2014. It's just an excuse to try and explain away why, supposedly, there are no longer bargain gems to be found and spending has to be focused on £50m+ players or else they won't be good enough for United.
No they didn’t. Post Neymar transfer fees have become ridiculous, Sigurdsson and Richarlison cost £50m and players from Eredivisie are valued north of £60m. Everybody costs more than £30m. The inflation between 2014 and 2016 was nothing like that - basically good players cost £30m in 2014 and then maybe £35m - £40m or so in 2016, this was normal. Sane and Mane cost £37m each in 2016. Good luck buying either (in their position at the time, not after they have proven themselves at City and Liverpool) below £70m now. Chelsea bought a goalkeeper for £72m. It’s mad.
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It is just sad when I read about Frenkie De Jong rumors, no Manchester United mentioned as club interest.
We will miss another Modric and it's sickening.
We will miss another Modric and it's sickening.
I don’t know and neither do our scouts, who let’s be honest should have been sacked a long time ago.
Some of the prices paid are mad, I agree. But plenty still aren't.
You say that good players cost £35m - £40m in 2016, yet Spurs signed Lucas Moura in 2018 for £26m.
ManUtd signings show club's long term strategy. We have signed plenty of young players who will play for years together.
We have done mistakes in hiring managers though, and in the process saved Spurs too from hiring Van Gaal, instead they signed Poch.
He cost PSG 40m in 2012. He couldn't cut it at top level and with FFP regulations, PSG had to sell at a cut-price(they also offloaded Pastore, Aurier, Krychowiak etc). Citing odd deals which favor your argument don't really show that all players can be signed for similar prices. Not every club is under pressure from FFP rules.
Depends on the type of defender it is. If he relies more on positioning, then he can still be effective even as he ages, but if he relies more on athleticism, his performance will likely decline more sharply with age. Also injuries become a bigger concern with age.
Every club that signs younger players is taking a long term strategy.
You don't need to spend as much as we have to do it and there are countless examples of cheaper younger players who are performing better than the majority we signed.
Our signings are astronomical when compared with a club like Bournemouth who also have a long terms strategy with young players. They simply get better performance levels out of the players they spend less on than we do. And its not like they never get 1 wrong. Its just that getting 1 or 2 right will easily cover the cost of that 1 signing because they didn't spend £30 million+ on the player in the first place.
When we spend so much money on players they have to come in and perform to a decent level, regardless of whether they're younger than 25 because inside a couple of seasons they can lose their way, lose their spot, lose the faith of the manager and there we are spending large amounts on a new player in the same position repeating it.
Not sure whether you are saying we are signing players for long term or something else.
If we are talking about price, it's very simple. If player and team is doing well no one talks about the price, else everyone does. Player doing well depends on lot of factors.
Price determines pressure and expectation. It determines how "well" you have to do before nobody talks about the fee. For example the majority of our money this summer was spent on Fred. So if he isnt a key part of the team, people are going to be asking questions. Pogba was a very expensive star signing. When he isnt playing the best in our team and doing what some other CMs out there are doing, people question him too. Because the expectations are so high for a player that cost so much money and he cost so much money because he'd been a key part of a team winning things before.
We are trying to sign players for the long term but no more so than a lot of clubs. We just spend more money on more well known players, while they find the good value players and we end up buying them years later for inflated fees. Or missing out.
Saying we are signing players for a long term strategy and therefore it doesnt matter how they are doing now is a complete cop out.
Which teams arent signing players with a long term strategy? City? Plenty of young players. Chelsea? Their signings tend to be around Fred's age.
Its not like we're signing players in their early 20s and everyone else is Milan from 10 years ago signing players in their 30s and having them roll back the years. Almost everyone has a long term strategy with the players they sign.
Griezzman would improve us for sure. Where would he fit is the question
Not sure what your argument has anything to do with the points I made. Saying ManUtd sign players for long term doesn't mean other clubs don't. Glaston made a post saying ManUtd look for quick fix giving examples of Sanchez and Matic, I said it's wrong as we sign lot of young players too.
Not sure where you got rest of the arguments from, like not expecting them to perform from the first game and all that.
In the huge squad hole we have just behind our lead forward for starters.....
Ya that's his best role but would ideally be central so in a 4231? I think 433 is best for us personally
It's Lucas fecking Moura, you are making it sound like you signed Ronaldo or Messi for 26 million.
Since signing fro Spurs in Jan, Lucas has played 1457 mins in PL + CL contributing to 5 goals (291 mins per G+A).
Sanchez since joining in Jan contributed to 8 goals in PL + CL in 1826 mins (228 mins)
We are not happy with Sanchez whereas you are making it sound like Lucas is a hero. That's the difference in expectations.
Mkhitaryan averaged 214 mins per G+A in PL + CL for ManUtd. If you include Europa league too then it's 188 mins.
I don't know why you are parading Lucas Moura as some great example.
In a 4-3-2-1 yes. Or on a flank in a 4-3-3
Moura was a squad player looking for redemption leaving a club desperate to ofload due to FFP. Its not the same thing as signing the next potential big thing looking for a step up from a stable small club on willing to take top dollar. Compare his price to Firmino's to Liverpool for example. That was expensive for an up and comer with no top tier youngster reputation....the market for good players is plain inflated
Id be wary of him on a flank. Think we need to buy and play players in their best roles after years of compromise. I would love to see him here though
I agree
Buy an expensive 28yr old striker? Wonder why that sounds familiar.
Are PSG going to be in a position where they need to sell, now that Mbappe is fully on their books?
- Menuier would be a good solution the the problem RB position
- Marquinos has to be better than our current RB options
- Also like the look if Raibot for defensive midfield
- Menuier would be a good solution the the problem RB position
- Marquinos has to be better than our current RB options
- Also like the look if Raibot for defensive midfield
Here's my dream addition to our squad. Doable within two transfer windows I think:
Menuier
Koulibaly
Rabiot
De Jong
Dembele
And this is how our squad will now look like:
Menuier
Koulibaly
Rabiot
De Jong
Dembele
And this is how our squad will now look like:
De Gea
Menuier Smalling/Baily Koulibaly Shaw
Rabiot
De Jong Pogba
Dembele Sanchez Martial
Done my bit, Woody over to you....Menuier Smalling/Baily Koulibaly Shaw
Rabiot
De Jong Pogba
Dembele Sanchez Martial
A dominant club in a weak league is hardly "top level". And the fact has he's been thriving at Spurs after PSG shows that some clubs and managers don't fit well with some players, whilst others do … it has little to do with him not cutting it.
Other clubs had the same opportunity to do a deal with PSG for Moura - it wasn't some special arrangement open only to Spurs. But United, for example, chose instead to pay more - plus incredibly huge wages - for a much older player from Arsenal.
But if you don't like the Moura example, then let's try Juan Foyth, signed for 13m euros and looking destined to become a mainstay CB with us within the next couple of years. Again, United (or other clubs) could have tried for him, but instead United went for Bailly for triple that amount a year earlier.
The point is that even in this inflated market not every good player or good prospect has to cost "X amount" as a minimum in order to be actually good enough: too many fans are sucked into the football-by-numbers game.
And here we are back to United's attempted quick fix approach, one that's not working.
You (and many other United fans) expect a quick return to the top, as does (apparently) the club's hierarchy, so you chuck huge wages at Sanchez, plus the transfer fee, despite the fact that he'll turn 30 in a few weeks.
Meanwhile Spurs fans expect to remain top 4 competitive, but also understand that the club has embarked on a long-term strategy which has involved diverting most of our spare money into building construction costs. And in keeping with that long-term strategy we are happy that Spurs continue to find good players (at an age where they won't need replacing in a year or two) and good prospects for far less than the "market inflation minimum cost" that I'm constantly told on here are necessary to acquire such players.
You are not happy with Sanchez, but we are happy with Moura. You don't have a long-term strategy for restoring a United dynasty, but Spurs do have a long-term strategy for establishing one.
And yet the same old narrative is trotted out - alleged different expectations concerning footballing success - to explain it all away, as if this somehow justifies United's current approach.
@GlastonSpur
I have it on good authority that Man Utd, Man City, Chelsea, Liverpool, Arsenal, Bayern Munich, Dortmund, Juventus, Inter Milan, AC Milan, Roma, Lazio, Barcelona, Real Madrid, Valencia, Sevilla, Fenerbahce, Porto, Jiangsu Sainty and Fulham all put in offers between 20-25m for Lucas Moura, because they knew that PSG would take a deflated price because of the position they put themselves in with regards FFP.
Spurs were the only mugs who offered to pay more than PSG told dozens of other clubs they'd sell him for.
I have it on good authority that Man Utd, Man City, Chelsea, Liverpool, Arsenal, Bayern Munich, Dortmund, Juventus, Inter Milan, AC Milan, Roma, Lazio, Barcelona, Real Madrid, Valencia, Sevilla, Fenerbahce, Porto, Jiangsu Sainty and Fulham all put in offers between 20-25m for Lucas Moura, because they knew that PSG would take a deflated price because of the position they put themselves in with regards FFP.
Spurs were the only mugs who offered to pay more than PSG told dozens of other clubs they'd sell him for.
What a pile of crap. ManUtd signed old players along with many young players. You make the same rubbish point every time even when it's been proven wrong. Nothing surprise there.
Fact that you are parading average player who contributed feck all shows how weak your points are. Players who contributed much more are called flops by ManUtd fans and yeah expectations from players and standards are different, which is again proven by you naming Lucas as crown jewel and ManUts fans considering Sanchez and Mkhitaryan as flops.
Btw you are diverting funds to stadium and other facilities as you are way behind ManUtd. We have already done what your are doing in 90s. I don't know why you are celebrating something that too comparing to ManUtd when we are way ahead of the pack and did it in 90s.
Yes there are no cheese rooms but stadium capacity, Match day income, commercial revenue shows how far ahead we are. So yeah we don't have to divert funds to stadium, we need to spend to improve squad.
