Who's the best coach/manager in the world right now?

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Flick won the sextuple in 2020 and almost never lost games.

Let's not forget Bayern before Flick took over, Kovac's work was dreadful. Flick rescued Müller, for example.

And let's not say the same bullshit that people say whenever a coach wins with an amazing team, like Guardiola with Barcelona, some people said that he was untested and unproven as a truly great coach even after winning two UCLs for Barcelona.
who are Bayern’s biggest domestic challenger, Dortmund?
 

teteus

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who are Bayern’s biggest domestic challenger, Dortmund?
The point is that he proved himself in Europe already and made Bayern a truly fantastic team playing miles better than when they were under Kovac. Look at Bayern's 2020 stats under Flick. When Bayern won the UCL final, they were in a run of 30 games with 29 victories and one draw. They also had the highest goal-scoring average per game in the UCL last season since Di Stéfano's Real Madrid.
 

NasirTimothy

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Gonna have to say Klopp. Transformed Dortmund from a mid table side to back-to-back Bundesliga winners and CL finalists. Transformed Liverpool from a 6th place side to back-to-back CL finalists, CL winners, PL winners and 97pts runner-ups. Both tenures with an almost neutral net spend. No current top manager have made a similar impact on a team even once and he's done it twice.
2nd goes to Pep, master at making already dominant sides even more dominant, but with a net spend of 700m more than Klopp I don't think anyone really thinks he comes close.
The flip side to this is that Pep created one of the greatest sides in history and certainly the best I’ve seen in my lifetime (late 80s Milan also a possible contender, but not nearly as spectacular). Klopp has not done this.
 

GhastlyHun

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Flick is doing it in a one team league. Pep is doing it in the most competitive league in football.
There was also this smallish international tournament he won.
I'm not saying Flick is better than or even on the same level as Pep, mind. He's been on the front line of coaching only for a year, so let's give him more time to see what he can do long term, and maybe also in different leagues at some point. Still what he has done in a very short time was magnificent.
 

RORY65

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The flip side to this is that Pep created one of the greatest sides in history and certainly the best I’ve seen in my lifetime (late 80s Milan also a possible contender, but not nearly as spectacular). Klopp has not done this.
I suppose the answer to that would be that Klopp has never had such a talented and well-resourced team but in fairness Guardiola elevated that team and the quality of football they played was sensational. I would say of the 2 he has been more influential on the way young coaches now think about the game but for my money Klopp is the best manager given what he has managed to achieve more than once starting from a much lower base and with lesser resources, if United could have any manager in the world (and he had no previous links to Liverpool) then I would trust him more than Guardiola or anyone else currently working to turn us into a team capable of seriously competing for the biggest trophies.
 

Jonno

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Pep is on the cusp of one the greatest seasons in history, they genuinely could win the Quadruple.

Doing so with stacks of talent in every position, built over years of consistent spending helps him do so, but he still needs to execute it which he has done very well.
 

NasirTimothy

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I suppose the answer to that would be that Klopp has never had such a talented and well-resourced team but in fairness Guardiola elevated that team and the quality of football they played was sensational. I would say of the 2 he has been more influential on the way young coaches now think about the game but for my money Klopp is the best manager given what he has managed to achieve more than once starting from a much lower base and with lesser resources, if United could have any manager in the world (and he had no previous links to Liverpool) then I would trust him more than Guardiola or anyone else currently working to turn us into a team capable of seriously competing for the biggest trophies.
Fair points. Problem is that Pep has only managed big clubs so we don’t know what he could or couldn’t do with a lesser team. He’s made a lot of mistakes too, some of his signings over the years have been terrible.

But in terms of the resources argument, the best team he’s ever had didn’t cost that much at all in the end, though he had a few false starts to get there. This is the best team of my lifetime:

Valdes
Alves Puyol Pique Abidal
Xavi Busquets Iniesta
Villa Messi Pedro

The success of this team was brought about mostly by Pep’s coaching and youth promotion, not superior finances. Also fair to say that Messi might not be the player that he is today without Pep. The Rijkaard version was a much less prolific wide player that was injured for at least a third of every season.
 
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Speedy30

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When it comes to Klopp v Pep, they are both world class managers and any team would love to have either.
The one argument that I have is whether they would be successful if they swapped roles.
Would Pep have been able to get Mainz promoted, win back to back titles with Dortmund and take Liverpool to European and Premier Leavue glory with the financial constraints that Klopp has had?
On the flip side, would Klopp have been able to achieve what Pep has at Barca, Bayern and City with the resources that he has had?
Clearly we'll never know the answer for certain but if Klopp can achieve all that with a smaller budget, he surely would be successful with more money available. Whether Pep would be successful with less money is debatable because he's never had to be but I'd love to see what he could do.
 

Yakuza_devils

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What a bad time to be man utd supporter.
World 2 best managers ("generational talent manager") are at City and Liverpool.

How lucky we were having SAF for 26 years.
 

Bearded One

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When it comes to Klopp v Pep, they are both world class managers and any team would love to have either.
The one argument that I have is whether they would be successful if they swapped roles.
Would Pep have been able to get Mainz promoted, win back to back titles with Dortmund and take Liverpool to European and Premier Leavue glory with the financial constraints that Klopp has had?
On the flip side, would Klopp have been able to achieve what Pep has at Barca, Bayern and City with the resources that he has had?
Clearly we'll never know the answer for certain but if Klopp can achieve all that with a smaller budget, he surely would be successful with more money available. Whether Pep would be successful with less money is debatable because he's never had to be but I'd love to see what he could do.
They are the two best managers in the world in my opinion. Ole is a close third (how do you do the white text thing?)

The argument that since Klopp succeeded with a relatively cheap side, he will do better with more money available is not always the case. You don’t put him ahead of another based on assumptions.

I also think we underrate Pep’s work in that Barca side. Messi is a generational talent we know but there is good reason to believe that Messi wouldn’t be the player we know today if Pep had not taken special care to watch him grow to stardom similar to how Ronaldo’s talent was given wings by the great SAF.

We only see that Barca side as glorious by using hindsight. It was not one that was heavily bankrolled and yet a rookie manager produced arguably the most dominant side of his generation. It would be really unfair to sweep that under the carpet.
 

GatoLoco

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Pep and Klopp. Maybe Nagelsmann. I'm not sure about Zidane though, I want to see him in another club before I make up my mind.
I think it depends on the context.

If I wanted to assure domestic wins in a team with high budget in the short term I would go with Guardiola.

If I wanted to build a project in a team with not so high resources I would choose Klopp or Nagelsmann, although I have to say Klopp is way more proven at the high level. My problem with a coach like Klopp is that I don't think he's that versatile, it's generally the club that adapts to the coach and not the other way around.

Zidane is also a contextual manager, but probably the best in the context that suits him better. On the one hand he does not have the tactical expertise of the guys above and I don't think he can develop players as well as them, but I don't think there is a better choice for a squad with big egos while navigating through the daily storms of a club like Real Madrid which devore seemingly solid coaches season in, season out.
 

Speedy30

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They are the two best managers in the world in my opinion. Ole is a close third (how do you do the white text thing?)

The argument that since Klopp succeeded with a relatively cheap side, he will do better with more money available is not always the case. You don’t put him ahead of another based on assumptions.
True, but I do think that a manager who can achieve things on a lower budget is likely to achieve even more on a bigger budget.
 

Bearded One

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True, but I do think that a manager who can achieve things on a lower budget is likely to achieve even more on a bigger budget.
Yes you are absolutely correct about the likelihood to achieve much more with more resources but we certainly cannot rule out the possibility of things not working out. In the last few days Redcafe has been very critical of Pochettino because the thinking is that Ligue 1 should be easy peasy for someone who has a few world class elite players at his disposal.
Last year Lampard was hailed because of what he achieved making top 4 with largely youth players whilst playing beautiful football. The logical thinking was that with more support, he could challenge for top 2 but we all know how things went. The game is such a dynamic one.
 

amolbhatia50k

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What a bad time to be man utd supporter.
World 2 best managers ("generational talent manager") are at City and Liverpool.

How lucky we were having SAF for 26 years.
Mourinho is miles better from this generation than Klopp, to be fair. He's done great at Liverpool but generational is a bit much. Pep and Mourinho are the all time greats from the current lot.
 

Leroy The Red

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Fair points. Problem is that Pep has only managed big clubs so we don’t know what he could or couldn’t do with a lesser team. He’s made a lot of mistakes too, some of his signings over the years have been terrible.

But in terms of the resources argument, the best team he’s ever had didn’t cost that much at all in the end, though he had a few false starts to get there. This is the best team of my lifetime:

Valdes
Alves Puyol Pique Abidal
Xavi Busquets Iniesta
Villa Messi Pedro

The success of this team was brought about mostly by Pep’s coaching and youth promotion, not superior finances. Also fair to say that Messi might not be the player that he is today without Pep. The Rijkaard version was a much less prolific wide player that was injured for at least a third of every season.
Astonishing comment.

The greatest player of all time would not be the player he is today if not for a bald man coaching him for three years.
 

M15 Red.

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It has to be Pep or Klopp still, surely? Of the new generation I'm a huge fan of Nagelsmann. What he did with Hoffenheim was fantastic. From flirting with relegation one minute, to the Champions League the next was nothing short of brilliance. Especially given his age. There have been bumps along the way since then, but all in all I think he hasn't done much wrong. Always had a soft spot for Bielsa too, even though he now manages one of the most horrible clubs in world football.
 

Tom Van Persie

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Flick is doing it in a one team league. Pep is doing it in the most competitive league in football.
But he hasn't been doing it in the CL.

I'm not sure how we can say Pep is the best with absolute conviction until he wins the CL or at least reaches a final. It's been close to a decade since he last won it with Barca which is a huge failure when you think about the Bayern and City teams he's managed. He needs to get there this season, City have arguably the best squad in Europe.
 

Leroy The Red

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Erm, not all that astonishing if you remember what actually happened

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp....uary-lionel-messi-pablo-maffeo-renzo-orihuela

So he moved Messi around the pitch. A player giving credit to a previous manager for his development is very normal anyway.

Before people start getting their knickers in a twist about pep. This is purely about Messi. Doesn’t matter what coach he had, he was destined for greatness. If he didn’t play under Pep he’d still be the player he is now.
 

stefan92

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Mourinho is miles better from this generation than Klopp, to be fair. He's done great at Liverpool but generational is a bit much. Pep and Mourinho are the all time greats from the current lot.
I think it is fair to include Klopp. Mourinho brought short-term success to good clubs, Klopp did long-term projects at Dortmund and Liverpool and brought success to more or less shit clubs - that's a different kind of success, but both are great managers for me. I even would rate Pep lower than these two because of his consistent CL failures.
 

OrcaFat

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People who are fans of Solskjaer more than the club are convinced the likes of Bayern and Barcelona would be all over him should he be available
I’ve never heard anyone say that.
 

footballistic orgasm

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But he hasn't been doing it in the CL.

I'm not sure how we can say Pep is the best with absolute conviction until he wins the CL or at least reaches a final. It's been close to a decade since he last won it with Barca which is a huge failure when you think about the Bayern and City teams he's managed. He needs to get there this season, City have arguably the best squad in Europe.
If you're only judging the finished product, then yes. If we're being honest though, Pep is the one who's making the players look like world class players.
If you look at their squad, none of those players except KDB and Aguero were considered world class players before Pep arrived.
No one was calling Dias a world-class player before this season, Cancelo wasn't playing at Juv and before this season was being considered a flop already by some, Zinchenko was an average midfielder converted into a solid inverted full back by Pep, Rodri had one good season at Athletico, Gundogan hadn't played for almost 2 years due to back problems before coming to City, Sterling was far from the player he's become, etc...
 

NasirTimothy

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So he moved Messi around the pitch. A player giving credit to a previous manager for his development is very normal anyway.

Before people start getting their knickers in a twist about pep. This is purely about Messi. Doesn’t matter what coach he had, he was destined for greatness. If he didn’t play under Pep he’d still be the player he is now.
No he wouldn’t. He’d still be a great player, but he’d likely be a completely different type of footballer without the false 9 switch (much less prolific for starters). Also there’s every chance he would have been injured a lot more and far less durable over the years had Pep not affected his eating habits, the way he trained, etc etc.
 

Wednesday at Stoke

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Zidane gets massively underrated in these threads. Winning the champions league thrice in a row in the modern day is an achievement that’ll stand for a long long time.
 

Leroy The Red

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No he wouldn’t. He’d still be a great player, but he’d likely be a completely different type of footballer without the false 9 switch (much less prolific for starters). Also there’s every chance he would have been injured a lot more and far less durable over the years had Pep not affected his eating habits, the way he trained, etc etc.
I’m out man. You’re talking utter shite. And I say that in the most respectful way.
 

Yakuza_devils

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Mourinho is miles better from this generation than Klopp, to be fair. He's done great at Liverpool but generational is a bit much. Pep and Mourinho are the all time greats from the current lot.
Pep and Kloop style of play have been revolutionary with tiki taka and gegenpressing.

Jose style was always ultra defensive. Italian team have been doing this for decades.
 

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Leroy The Red

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https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....-diet-changes-prolong-career-remain-game.html

I’m presenting evidence to back up the points I’m making and you’re being dismissive because you don’t seem to be able to discuss things in a logical manner or understand simple facts. Do your thing pal, it’s obvious we’re not getting anywhere
- Young kid athlete eats junk food (shock horror)
- young kid athlete told to stop eating junk food by coaches at his club (shock horror)
- kid grows up and admits it was the correct decision to stop eating junk food.

Yes, I see it now. If it wasn’t for Pep and his fizzy drink and chocolate eating coaching. Messi would not have become the player he was.


Anyway Messi is humble, he’s not gonna be coming out with shit like “it was all me my coaches did nothing” . He’s not Neymar. You posting these articles is only proof that Messi appreciates those he worked with. But it is definitely NOT a fair point to say he wouldn’t be this player without Pep.

We’re not talking about some technically limited player who needed loads of guidance. We’re talking about the GOAT.

Ronaldo played for United, and he would admit to Fergie being a big influence but even as a United fan had Ronaldo not played here under Fergie I would comfortably still say he’d have turned out as great as he did.
 
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NasirTimothy

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- Young kid athlete eats junk food (shock horror)
- young kid athlete told to stop eating junk food by coaches at his club (shock horror)
- kid grows up and admits it was the correct decision to stop eating junk food.

Yes, I see it now. If it wasn’t for Pep and his fizzy drink and chocolate eating coaching. Messi would not have become the player he was.
So Pep:

1. completely changed his training habits which resulted in him not being injured for half of every season like he was under Frank R.

2. Completely changed his diet, helping him to have longevity in the game.

3. Completely changed his position, allowing him to score A LOT more goals

4. Decided to build the team around him by jettisoning the king of Barca at the time Ronaldinho, plus Deco and a bunch of others deemed surplus to requirements.

Yeah, absolutely did nothing for him and had no impact on his career whatsoever, I can see that now.......

Look, I don’t know if you’re a Messi fan; I’ve noticed that his (and Ronaldo’s) acolytes can be a little weird in their defence of these people that they’ve never met. But it’s ok to accept that Pep had a major influence on his career (and that this is a credit to Pep’s coaching), it’s not a slight on Lionel.
 

NasirTimothy

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- Young kid athlete eats junk food (shock horror)
- young kid athlete told to stop eating junk food by coaches at his club (shock horror)
- kid grows up and admits it was the correct decision to stop eating junk food.

Yes, I see it now. If it wasn’t for Pep and his fizzy drink and chocolate eating coaching. Messi would not have become the player he was.


Anyway Messi is humble, he’s not gonna be coming out with shit like “it was all me my coaches did nothing” . He’s not Neymar. You posting these articles is only proof that Messi appreciates those he worked with. But it is definitely NOT a fair point to say he wouldn’t be this player without Pep.

We’re not talking about some technically limited player who needed loads of guidance. We’re talking about the GOAT.

Ronaldo played for United, and he would admit to Fergie being a big influence but even as a United fan had Ronaldo not played here under Fergie I would comfortably still say he’d have turned out as great as he did.
Nice edit to make this seem more reasonable. I don’t recall ever saying that Messi was technically limited
 

Leroy The Red

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So Pep:

1. completely changed his training habits which resulted in him not being injured for half of every season like he was under Frank R.

2. Completely changed his diet, helping him to have longevity in the game.

3. Completely changed his position, allowing him to score A LOT more goals

4. Decided to build the team around him by jettisoning the king of Barca at the time Ronaldinho, plus Deco and a bunch of others deemed surplus to requirements.

Yeah, absolutely did nothing for him and had no impact on his career whatsoever, I can see that now.......

Look, I don’t know if you’re a Messi fan; I’ve noticed that his (and Ronaldo’s) acolytes can be a little weird in their defence of these people that they’ve never met. But it’s ok to accept that Pep had a major influence on his career (and that this is a credit to Pep’s coaching), it’s not a slight on Lionel.
1. that’s an outright and complete lie. Messi was never injured for half a season under Rijkaad.

2. stop with this diet stuff honestly. It’s fishing to the extreme. Players have shit eating and training habits at a young age. It’s normal. The people around them are supposed to change it.

3. completely changed his position? Yes I do recall Messi being left back under Rijkaard. Thank feck for Pep possessing the foresight to change him to an attacker/left sided forward .

4. For sure. Incredible foresight again to build your team around the player who every tom, dick and Harry at Barca had pencilled in as a generational talent.

5. I didn’t actually say Pep did nothing for him. I took exception to you saying “Also fair to say that Messi might not be the player that he is today without Pep”.
I can’t stress it enough, this is one of the most stupid comments I’ve ever read on here. (And last week I saw someone say Fred is as good as Kante)

Messi has had a near 15 reign as one of the best footballers in the world and you think that might not have happened because for three years Pep told him to stop drinking Irn Bru and eating dib dabs. I can use hyperbole too...

6. the absolute irony of you trying to pass this off as extreme fandom on my part :lol:

For what it’s worth, no I’m not a “Messi fan” in the sense you’re implying.
I just find it completely idiotic to claim the greatest player of all time somehow wouldn’t have become just that if it wasn’t for Pep Guardiola.
Have you seen the goals and things Messi has done over the years? Go and re watch and tell us how these might not have happened if not for Pep Guardiola.
 

thepolice123

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Erm, not all that astonishing if you remember what actually happened

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp....uary-lionel-messi-pablo-maffeo-renzo-orihuela
He was third in 2007 Ballon d'or and second in 2008. His age was 19 and 20. Ronaldinho was Barca's topscorer for the 06/07 season and he was nowhere near Messi in the ranking. Just think about how astonishing talented he was as a teen. He did all that before Pep became the main coach.

If there's any player destined for greatness its Messi. Pep Guardiola or not.
 

TrustInJanuzaj

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I think the answer to this is relatively simple. With world class resources and unlimited funds, Guadiola is the best coach in the world. The guy is a genius in the way he understands the game but I also think he’s very fortunate that the pieces are always perfectly in place for him.

Klopp remains the best manager in the world for every other club where resources are not unlimited because he can extract world class performance levels out of players who have no right to be that good. Up until the last two seasons I also think Klopp sides have been the most entertaining in the world too. His Dortmund side is one of my favourites from the last decade and I have to admit his Liverpool side 2/3 years ago, while not as dominating, were incredibly entertaining and the closest to a Fergie side that I’ve seen.