Our managerial position has become like the Defense Against the Dart Arts position at Hogwarts. The role is jinxed by You Know Who.
Why are we dropping the standards for Ole?
- Thread starter MyOnlySolskjaer
- Start date
Ole will be on a knife edge if we lose a few more games in succession.
I love him to bits but we seem to be keeping him on the false belief he’s the only manager out there playing on the front front with pressing.
Unfortunately he didn’t ask for players in the midfield to actually play a dominating game hence the tactics break down every time teams sit back.
I want to see United reach the best possible level with the tools we have available.
Unfortaunely for Ole he’s not one of our best tools. One of the weaker parts of our setup for sure. Pogba is our best tool for success atm on the pitch and he’s not using him right at all.
Our manager needs to take responsibility for that.
I love him to bits but we seem to be keeping him on the false belief he’s the only manager out there playing on the front front with pressing.
Unfortunately he didn’t ask for players in the midfield to actually play a dominating game hence the tactics break down every time teams sit back.
I want to see United reach the best possible level with the tools we have available.
Unfortaunely for Ole he’s not one of our best tools. One of the weaker parts of our setup for sure. Pogba is our best tool for success atm on the pitch and he’s not using him right at all.
Our manager needs to take responsibility for that.
Actually thats the best way of building a side you should have a top target for the position then second and maybe even a third but obviously you will be trying to sign the top target to begin. Sure there is plenty of strikers we could have even got Mario Balotelli on free if we wanted but why buy players just fill up a squad especially at a club like Man United.
Quality over quantity and if Jadon Sancho is our first choice RW target next season and Ole feels theirs no other player that can play RW how he wants then its Sancho or nobody. The strongest squad in terms of quality and depth is Man City. Man City when bankrolled originally signed loads of players but not many top quality players but over time and especially under Guordiola he has his top targets and City sign them. So instead of a bench full of players that were signed to sit on the bench they bought quality players that fit their style. Even Citys second 11 would probably beat us. But ya lets go sign Daniel Sturridge he's striker so that would fit the player your looking for.
Making these mistakes with another (failed) manager's squad. If Ole were in Mourinho's position we both know you wouldn't be calling for his sacking. So it's reasonable to assume you are judging them by different standards simply because of their CV, which is frankly a bizarre hiring strategy given the previous two managers. I sure hope you aren't in charge of hiring decisions at whatever company you work for.
You also have to consider that Sancho might not want to join the club if we are finishing outside the top 4. Same goes for other top players. If City sit outside the top 4 and they cant get Sancho they would sign someone else.
But you seem to be missing the fact that 'lowering standards' is only there in the mind of a fan that hasn't come to terms with the possibility that our team might not even be strong enough to compete for fourth. You can't be so certain that it is, and by admitting to that you will also surely see that injuries will hit a team like that a lot harder than better teams in infinitely better positions. This isn't lowering standards, it is looking at whats in front of you and have a logical, unbiased assessment. You should try it with regards to topics concerning Mourinho.
Whether we are "doing it for Ole" or not doesn't really matter as we're just in that position now. There is no way to change that, removing Ole doesn't remove the fact we might not be good enough for top 4 after fecking up our last 4 transfer windows. It is not only this last window where we couldn't get replacements in. Jones is backup CB still and Mata hangs around still. McTominay is our most trusted midfielder next to Pogba. I love McTominaytor, but that is way underneath my expectations for this club. Honestly, I don't expect anything from this season in terms of results. My only hope is that we use this time to correct our wrongs and not make the same mistakes twice. Ole do actually understand this, that is about the only thing that is certain about him for now. If he sucks the life out of this team and fail to develop our youngsters into the team then he'll get the sack. No need to worry about that.
And those very same people refuse to accept the fact that the Glazers keep him and Ed around because the 2 factors are connected. Ole is doing an awful job but is also a yes man. Unfortunately, he is a yes man who the fans like, and we live in a society where people diagnose a problem by looking at the surface rather than looking beneath it.
I've seen Ole compared to among others, based on surface level issues that I will both define and debunk:
1. Zidane- because they both scored the winner in a Champions League final against a German club. Other than that, Zidane was a regular starter, a leader in the squad, a Ballon d'or winner and captain of his Country. He is also someone who Real Madrid sacked their 2nd Manager last season to bring in, gave £300m to spend on a rebuild and did so to prevent him from going to Juventus (which appeared nailed on).
2. Klopp - because he finished 8th in his first post-season. He also reached 2 Cup Finals, has yet to be eliminated in a 2-leg tie, has improved each season, been backed by the Liverpool board, turned Anfield into a Fortress and Liverpool to the pinnacle of European football. Yet, like Zidane, his appointment came after firing Brendan Rodgers, who had recently been given a new contract and whose run of form prior to being sacked was better than Ole's since becoming Permanent Manager. This firing was done at a time when Klopp was free, but the writing on the wall for Jose at Chelsea. We have a situation where our own potential Klopp is free (Allegri) but we also have to ensure that our board are pressured.
3. Sir Alex - because he had a rough start. He also didn't have the Glazers as owners until close to 20 years into his reign. Moreover,he was a strong character, had a plan and was assisted by the board. To those saying he won with kids,that is only partially correct. His first youth-based side (2nd of 3 great teams) had leaders like Cantona, Schmeichel, Irwin, Keane and Pallister.
Those men were part of the first great side and had the experience of winning. In fact, the double winning side of 96 wins nothing without Schmeichel in goal or Cantona up front. In fact, it wins nothing after that without plAyers like Ole himself, Cole, Sheringham, etc.
Unlike Ole, Ferguson signed foreign players, phased out older players, was a leader of men, relied on external coaches (McClaren and Queiroz) and was ruthless when needed. Only in his latter years, he stood by the Glazers partially due to his complicity in their takeover which I think has partially been the cause of the club's decline. (Give me a like and I'll post in a new thread).
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You are posting this and wonder why I defended Jose when we finished 2nd. Jose looked at the team and said 2nd is a very good finish. People didn't like that. Now you want to offer the idea that the team might not be good enough to finish 4th and there is a possible excuse for us to finish 7th. I'll see myself out.
Let's be serious here, we should get 4th. Anything less is doing the bare minimum. Chelsea are transfer banned, lost two of their best prospects (CHO&RLC) to injury, and lost Hazard. They also have a rookie manager in Lampard.
If we can't get 4th over Arsenal it means that we didn't perform above what was expected, and a strong indicator that Ole isn't the right man. Arsenal have a cheap owner, and they ended up loaning Ceballos. If midfield was such a problem for us (it was), why didn't we loan a youngster around McTominay's age to us?
If we can't get 4th over Arsenal it means that we didn't perform above what was expected, and a strong indicator that Ole isn't the right man. Arsenal have a cheap owner, and they ended up loaning Ceballos. If midfield was such a problem for us (it was), why didn't we loan a youngster around McTominay's age to us?
I have feelings towards that too, not dissimilar to yours but you clearly is carrying this with you in an unhealthy way. Why let old perspectives form new opinions? Never understood that.
Alright so lets say Sancho is our first choice we try to sign him and he stays at Dortmund, the RW position at Utd does need an upgrade and so if theres a player our club feels fits the RW profile we're looking for then im sure they would go and buy the 2nd choice. But your saying pretty much just buy anyone thats just silly really. Plus if Sancho was the only player Ole felt would be an improvement for the RW position then its his decision. Thats why City wouldnt sign Sancho because they bought quality players that were the top targets at the time in Sterling and Mahrez. Is it starting to make sense to you now.
Sorry but I feel you need to slow down and consider your answers more carefully instead of jumping from post to post with rushed, two sentence answers that just dont really make sense
Comparing Van Gaal vs Jose vs Ole's records for ManUtd.
Goals per game:
Van Gaal - 1.46
Jose - 1.62
Ole - 1.72
Goals conceded per game
Van Gaal - 0.94
Jose - 0.92
Ole - 1.16
Points per game
Van Gaal - 1.78
Jose - 1.89
Ole - 1.8
Total Spend - Net Spend
Van Gaal - 351 million - 200 million
Jose - 465 million - 350 million
Ole - 159 million - 83 million
Rough patches (only PL games)
Van Gaal
2014-15 - Played - Won - Draw - Loss - GF - GA - Points
---------------10--------3------4-------3------16---14----13
---------------05--------1------3-------1------05---04----06
---------------06--------1------2-------3------03---07----05 (this was the run where we went 3 games without scoring a goal)
2015-16 - Played - Won - Draw - Loss - GF - GA - Points
---------------10--------2------5-------3------07---08----11
---------------06--------2------2-------2------09---07----08 (first 2 run ins happened from oct 25th to feb 13th. We won 5 league games in nearly 4 months)
Jose
2016-17 - Played - Won - Draw - Loss - GF - GA - Points
---------------11--------2------6-------3------13---15----12
---------------09--------3------6-------0------12---05----15
2018-19 - Played - Won - Draw - Loss - GF - GA - Points
---------------06--------1------3-------2------11---11----06
Ole
2018-19 - Played - Won - Draw - Loss - GF - GA - Points
---------------09--------2-------2-------5-----07---16----08
Not sure this season counts as we have played just 4 games. So don't think we have dropped standards. It's the standard policy of giving time to managers. Every manager have hit rough patches, the one under Van Gaal was something else. From Oct 25th to Feb 13th, we won 5 league games.
Under Jose, we won 1 league game from Oct 2nd to Dec 4th. From Mid Jan to April 4th, we won just 3 league games.
Also longest winning streak was 6 games for all 3. Van Gaal achieved it twice, Jose and Ole once.
Goals per game:
Van Gaal - 1.46
Jose - 1.62
Ole - 1.72
Goals conceded per game
Van Gaal - 0.94
Jose - 0.92
Ole - 1.16
Points per game
Van Gaal - 1.78
Jose - 1.89
Ole - 1.8
Total Spend - Net Spend
Van Gaal - 351 million - 200 million
Jose - 465 million - 350 million
Ole - 159 million - 83 million
Rough patches (only PL games)
Van Gaal
2014-15 - Played - Won - Draw - Loss - GF - GA - Points
---------------10--------3------4-------3------16---14----13
---------------05--------1------3-------1------05---04----06
---------------06--------1------2-------3------03---07----05 (this was the run where we went 3 games without scoring a goal)
2015-16 - Played - Won - Draw - Loss - GF - GA - Points
---------------10--------2------5-------3------07---08----11
---------------06--------2------2-------2------09---07----08 (first 2 run ins happened from oct 25th to feb 13th. We won 5 league games in nearly 4 months)
Jose
2016-17 - Played - Won - Draw - Loss - GF - GA - Points
---------------11--------2------6-------3------13---15----12
---------------09--------3------6-------0------12---05----15
2018-19 - Played - Won - Draw - Loss - GF - GA - Points
---------------06--------1------3-------2------11---11----06
Ole
2018-19 - Played - Won - Draw - Loss - GF - GA - Points
---------------09--------2-------2-------5-----07---16----08
Not sure this season counts as we have played just 4 games. So don't think we have dropped standards. It's the standard policy of giving time to managers. Every manager have hit rough patches, the one under Van Gaal was something else. From Oct 25th to Feb 13th, we won 5 league games.
Under Jose, we won 1 league game from Oct 2nd to Dec 4th. From Mid Jan to April 4th, we won just 3 league games.
Also longest winning streak was 6 games for all 3. Van Gaal achieved it twice, Jose and Ole once.
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I don't think we are dropping the standards, they've been low for some time now.
It's the manager's job to build a system that gets the best out of what he has or if he wants to play his way then he should dispose what's not required. If he comes out later and lays out excuses like 'xyz player is not suitable for the system' then he shouldn't have said in the press saying he is happy and blah blah blah.
Look at Poch. He didn't throw a fit like Jose but kept reminding the board that he needed new players.
Re. Lingard, there's more to it than Instagram. The club settling for mediocrity is one of them. Ole and the England manager having hard-ons for headless chickens is another.
I never said to just buy anyone. You cant rely on Sancho signing for you when you cant even get into the top 4 is my point. Without Sancho this season we can get top 4 and then we can move.
There was a poster on here which said that he must be a Liverpool fan, I’m convinced that must be true. He has to be a Liverpool spy. Ole form warrants sacking but this club won’t do anything unless top 4 is mathematically over.
This.
Leicester kept Nigel Pearson in January when they were in relegation zone despite the media said he was officially sacked.
Keeping the head cool is the key, Liecester survived and won the league the season after with the manager who didn't rebuild Pearson's team.
Meanwhile what happen to Sunderland after sacking 3 managers in a season?
Even Watford will be back to the championship at this level.
If Ole is mediocore, we should wait until the season end. another manager will do a meaningless rebuild if he was sacked.
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Hey so you see the last sentence on my previous post ya so your last reply is the exact reason I said that. This is a forum for discussion and giving opinions and trying to improve the quality of the posts and replies benefits everyone. So sit back from the computer, relax, take a deep breath and for your next post try to make sense of your reply ok. Just trying to help man.
The irony.
I know you finally made sense.
Wow, the mentalists are out in full force in this thread.
Yeah, people ignore how big the squad was, wage bill was. Clear out was needed, shame we didn't replace them but I don't mind taking short term hit. We have freed up places, we still have lot of work in offloading deadwood but this is just a start. Hopefully we add couple of players in Jan.
Yes. Yes they are.
Yes. I was being a bit disingenuous regarding the instagram comment. My point there was just that some of the players aren't of the quality expected, so like you said for a manager to rely on them there is a risk.. and if they fail him there will have to be consequences. That would mostly be the whole point of this season if I'm to stay positive about something. If the system in it self isn't improving any players, then it becomes a much easier matter. Meaning Ole gets the sack.
I think everyone can see this team needs new players, pretty sure Ole knows that and wanted more. He'll have to go with what he has got though, and sadly that is not enough. Hopefully the system will work, but even if it does I think a few players will just keep letting us down and we'll not see stability in results until they all are being replaced. That makes it a bit harder to judge, so we can't just blame it all on Ole. However, he is not immune to criticism and fault, not at all.
Exactly and it always delayed signings they wanted to get done early. I'd say that wage bill is looking alot better after the recent transfer window.
Apologies I rarely get dragged into pointless arguments like that but he was kind of asking for it if you check his previous comments. Still would rather not be considered a mentalist
So in the midst of a rebuild after allowing him to sell off a lot of players the answer is to go back to the beginning with yet another manager and another set of ideas?
How do people expect a rebuild to occur when the manager and the ideas constantly change?
How do people expect a rebuild to occur when the manager and the ideas constantly change?
We don't know that, Ole won't cry in the media like Mourinho did. I personally believe that Ole isn't happy with this window at all. The squad is extremely thin in quality. We pretty much need every player to hit form because we have virtually nothing on the bench. Just look at the amount of players we offloaded, whatever we think of them, they were players that featured a lot of games just a season ago. Many of which weren't even replaced. This season will be risky for Ole, there is no guarantee some key players will suddenly hit top 4 form when the previous seasons tell us otherwise.
If results get back to a reasonable level I would give Ole the whole season and the next summer window. However if after the next 6 league games we are languishing in 8th or 9th for example and can't string some wins together I would not be upset if the club were considering his position.
Rebuild is one thing but dropping points every week will not be acceptable.
Rebuild is one thing but dropping points every week will not be acceptable.
Ya its not good enough really for a top club and worst part of the rebuild is that we have been trying to sell the same players for years and somehow the likes of Darmian(until recently), Rojo and Jones are still at the club even though it is clear that they arent good enough.
They even get an odd game during the season. Thankfully the clear out is nearly finished and it brings a fresh start to the team and hopefully we buy smart not big.
Personally I think they intended to prioritise offloading players and it looks like they are planning for the long term. We could have easily brought more players and splashed the cash but i feel the signings we did make were players that were the clubs first choice in their role. So while we could have made more signings I think its better to build slowly and with the right players and especially if manage to get back into the champions league which would give us more appeal than now. Its a risk but its trying something different.
This all works if Ole is given time and patience. I have zero faith that Woodward will let Ole stay if we finish 6th, 7th which isn't inconceivable looking at our squad. Hope I'm wrong.
Because apparently if you are an ex player who happens to be smiling all the time, you get a free pass.
True and especially if a manager like Pochettino becomes available I think they would have a tough decision to make even if he makes top 4.
Same nonsense, different thread.
We are a spent force as a club, accept it. It's easier that way.
If the decision is made to appoint Pochettino it should be before the next summer window. Two different coaches with different visions, no point letting one coach rebuild the squad according to his vision to then switch.
So your saying to give up on this great club that has given memories that we will always have in the good times and the bad, we were lucky to have alot of good times and now because we're not winning the league every season doesn't mean we should give up. Thats not what a real fan of any football club would even consider for a second. You get behind the club, believe we will be back and better than ever because anything can happen in this beautiful game
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I've done that, now I'm relaxed as Kim jong un during an election.