Why are we dropping the standards for Ole?

[romufc]

Well there is a number of problems with our club, problems that have been dealt with poorly especially for such a huge club and there are problems that remain and have been allowed to continue.

The very moment that Ferguson and Gill stepped down things at the club were about change drastically and the board were not prepared or able to fill the void left. Football is always changing from roles on the pitch to a new type of staff role and the teams that adapted to these changes are now the clubs that are well run in every department with a consistency that is very notable when comparing to the clubs that didn't change with the times. Spurs, City and Pool are clubs that reacted to these changes and they seem to have little to no problems or blips when dealing with transfers, media or internal issues. We have all them problems and they are embarrassing for our club.

The club has in just 6 years from being almost yearly league winners and in contention for all cups, and feared and respected by smaller clubs to finishing 7th place more times than in the top 4. It was always going to be difficult to replace Fergie and Gill but the lack of preparation or plan of action was just the beginning. The last 6 years is a collection of blunders to mistakes to
misjudgments that should be noted and adapted into a guide on how to mismanage one of the best football teams in the world: Glazer Edition.

Look at the signings to the managers hired its just a utter mess and its tough to see how the owners who dont have and background or idea of what the club stands for and how it feels to support the team from the Stretford end. I would have been one of many that would blame the players for everything or even the manager or staff, their the ones on the field the ones that without them there would be no board, no CEO, no staff, no football. So ill always wait for the day that Glazers are ousted and banned for life from our Theater of Dreams that they almost made the Theater of Nightmares.

Start at the top and work your way to the bottom.

Exactly, the lack of preparation is one but to be 6 years down the line and still not adapt? For a club this big, organisation this big, to be promising the fans a DoF will be hired.. 14 months on nothing has happened. Ed Woodward who has been the cause is still in his position.

Yet managers / players have been sacked and we have seen no change. But once again, the fans are asking for the manager's head. It starts with the fans, who take the easy option and turn on the manager rather than the people who matter.

 

[Eoin McMahon]

Exactly, the lack of preparation is one but to be 6 years down the line and still not adapt? For a club this big, organisation this big, to be promising the fans a DoF will be hired.. 14 months on nothing has happened. Ed Woodward who has been the cause is still in his position.

Yet managers / players have been sacked and we have seen no change. But once again, the fans are asking for the manager's head. It starts with the fans, who take the easy option and turn on the manager rather than the people who matter.

This club is owned and controlled by people who don't know the history the culture and who don't hold the slightest interest in football and who simply see the club as a cash cow nothing more nothing less and as long as the club keeps the cash flowing in then any change is done reluctantly.

It's taken the fans, manager and some players voicing the need for change and so 6 -7 years after every other big team hired their first director of football "talks" have begun to get one in place. We're are being left behind in changes that are improving clubs and helping them progress. And this will continue until they finally leave our club alone.

 

[Andycoleno9]

We just spent around 140 mil euros on new defence. We have world class players in De gea and Pogba. We have some very good players in Rashford, Martial, Lindelof, Shaw. We can say what we want about Matic, Fred, Pereira, Bailly or Rojo but they would be in first 11 in most of PL teams. Ole decided to sell/loan Alexis and Lukaku who would be also starters in most clubs in PL.
So how the hell is 6th success? Top 4 is a must. Rebuilding or not, you have very good team, you had 6 free months to adapt, you had pre-season, you got new players. No excuses there. Nobody is asking title fight but fighting for top 4 with Arsenal and Chelsea is a must. Finishing 6th is what? Being better than Wolves and Everton.

Also that thing about time and one or two "free seasons to rebuild" is ridiculous. Imagine having ceo job in some multi-billion company and boss gives you one or two free years? No chance for that. Even if you are hired because you are his nephew or something like that( in football terms; club legend).
If we don't start having results, repercussions will be huge. We will lose money, best players will go in better clubs, transfer budget will be lower, it will be impossible to buy quality players...

 

[Dr. StrangeHate]

The fact that we are discussing this shows what some fans know about the football club.

It is clear from the past 6 years, the manager is not the number 1 problem.

The fans seem happy to sack managers if they don't get what? the league? top 4? what is the ambition?

The club from board level has an ambition of top 6 which means the manager gets what he needs to achieve that.

The problem is the fans have high ambitions of winning leagues and the CEO and owners have top 6. That is the problem not the manager.

I agree with that; the board want just a top 6 finish while the fans want CL and PL. The board hired a manager based on this aim and that is what we fans are finding difficult to digest. We need a clear out of the Glazers in addition to Ole if we are to return to fighting for PL and CL. Or a miracle needs to happen in which Ole becomes Pep or Klopp.

 

[Irrational.]

The truth is, he shouldn't even be in charge at the moment. The plan was always for him to be caretaker manager - that's it; and then we'd wait for the right opportunity to get someone more competent in. That freak PSG result turned out to be one of the most cursed victories in recent years. It messed up all of our plans.

 

[Tom Cato]

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Had this been the run of form for anyone non-United related surely would have been sacked.

Is it really something we can afford to persist with?

We're 4 games into the season with the managers own team, pre-season and fitness conditioning. I'll take toll on this when we reach the christmas break, not sooner.

 

[romufc]

This club is owned and controlled by people who don't know the history the culture and who don't hold the slightest interest in football and who simply see the club as a cash cow nothing more nothing less and as long as the club keeps the cash flowing in then any change is done reluctantly.

It's taken the fans, manager and some players voicing the need for change and so 6 -7 years after every other big team hired their first director of football "talks" have begun to get one in place. We're are being left behind in changes that are improving clubs and helping them progress. And this will continue until they finally leave our club alone.

I think the time is not to catch up with the teams ahead of us now.

We need to get ahead of them, implement methods for the future and how they see things going.

A DoF might be a start, but the last thing we want is to react to something which is 6-7 years and just hire a DoF because that is poor.

We need to become alot more pro-active and have a business model for the next 5, then 10 and 15 years.

 

[romufc]

I agree with that; the board want just a top 6 finish while the fans want CL and PL. The board hired a manager based on this aim and that is what we fans are finding difficult to digest. We need a clear out of the Glazers in addition to Ole if we are to return to fighting for PL and CL. Or a miracle needs to happen in which Ole becomes Pep or Klopp.

I agree with most people in that Ole is not a Klopp or a Pep but what Ole can do is steady the ship whilst everything in the background is sorted in readiness for a manager to come in when things are better.

 

[Stacks]

Hasn't had much time to work on our squad and is a club legend. Also he gets the club and has United DNA.

 

[Skills]

I totally agree with you. We are so desperate for Ole to succeed that we are suspending common-sense, we are making every possible excuse for his management. To be honest I have read the most bafflingly nonsensical comments on the café after the draw at Wolves, defeat at Palace and the draw at Southampton. They have basically suggested that those results were due to the lack of investment during the summer window, as if to say that we need £180m worth of investment to beat Wolves, Palace and Southampton. Utter bonkers, yet that is exactly what now masquerades as rationale debate and logic amongst former United players and many United fans including those who run major fan platforms.

According to many United fans, despite the fact that Ole is the coach, in-game tactician, strategist, first team selector, squad rotator, motivator and mentor it is 'not his fault' that United cannot beat Palace at home or 10 man Southampton away, it's the board's fault, it is Moyes fault, it is Van Gaal's fault it is Jose's fault. In fact it is everyone's fault but Ole's.

In a nutshell, yes we have absolutely lowered the bar for Ole and we will lower it some more in order to compensate for his lack of elite level experience and ability to perform at the level required. Let's be clear, I am not one of those who think we need to get rid of him, but let's at least have the courage to hold him accountable.

Fantastic post.

But I'd argue it's the case for every single manager post Fergie. People make insane excuses for all of them rather than hold them accountable. The clubs fanbase has a really unhealthy relationship with whoever sits on the managers chair.

 

[Enigma_87]

Hasn't had much time to work on our squad and is a club legend. Also he gets the club and has United DNA.

He has been here since December.

 

[tenpoless]

The truth is, he shouldn't even be in charge at the moment. The plan was always for him to be caretaker manager - that's it; and then we'd wait for the right opportunity to get someone more competent in. That freak PSG result turned out to be one of the most cursed victories in recent years. It messed up all of our plans.

This. Our CEO is a child.

 

[SadlerMUFC]

Implying that they are not of United quality and he is in a managerial capacity? He has proven nothing.

Claiming players wont be here and that he will be a success is arrogance. He has done nothing to suggest he will be a success at this level. He basically said the players are not good enough but he is.

Wow, you're really stretching now

 

[SadlerMUFC]

Stop comparing him to Klopp. Klopp won the Bundesliga. No one is asking him to win 16-0. Just win a game.

Anyway, he needs to get results in the next 3 games. People can make as many excuses as they want. If he gets results he buys himself time because he has earned it.

I'm not comparing him to Klopp. I'm comparing the situations. When Klopp took over there was no difference in results. Liverpool was still a 7th place team. But they were playing better even though the scoresheet didnt' look like it. That's what we are doing now. We are playing better but not getting the results. But the results will come if we keep playing the same way. And what is this "buys himself some time" crap? We finally have a manager who has a direction of where he wants to go. This may take time. He's had 1 transfer window and so far has done really good business in not just getting British talent, but in getting young and hungry talent that wants to be here as opposed to the mercenaries that his predecessors brought in. Getting rid of Ole would be taking one step forward and two steps back...

 

[romufc]

The truth is, he shouldn't even be in charge at the moment. The plan was always for him to be caretaker manager - that's it; and then we'd wait for the right opportunity to get someone more competent in. That freak PSG result turned out to be one of the most cursed victories in recent years. It messed up all of our plans.

What plans?

Believing in Ed is probably the worst thing atm. Did he not say a DoF would be brought in?

He was just too lazy to do anything. We have the most incompetent board ever.

Ed does not have it in him to scout a player, manager or a DoF. Failure in all 3.

Most players brought in have failed
All managers brought in have failed.

What makes you think another manager would have succeeded?

 

[Adisa]

But I'd argue it's the case for every single manager post Fergie. People make insane excuses for all of them rather than hold them accountable. The clubs fanbase has a really unhealthy relationship with whoever sits on the managers chair.

Simply not true. You only have to look at the Moyes, LVG and Mourinho threads to find out.

 

[Leftback99]

We just spent around 140 mil euros on new defence. We have world class players in De gea and Pogba. We have some very good players in Rashford, Martial, Lindelof, Shaw. We can say what we want about Matic, Fred, Pereira, Bailly or Rojo but they would be in first 11 in most of PL teams. Ole decided to sell/loan Alexis and Lukaku who would be also starters in most clubs in PL.
So how the hell is 6th success? Top 4 is a must. Rebuilding or not, you have very good team, you had 6 free months to adapt, you had pre-season, you got new players. No excuses there. Nobody is asking title fight but fighting for top 4 with Arsenal and Chelsea is a must. Finishing 6th is what? Being better than Wolves and Everton.

Also that thing about time and one or two "free seasons to rebuild" is ridiculous. Imagine having ceo job in some multi-billion company and boss gives you one or two free years? No chance for that. Even if you are hired because you are his nephew or something like that( in football terms; club legend).
If we don't start having results, repercussions will be huge. We will lose money, best players will go in better clubs, transfer budget will be lower, it will be impossible to buy quality players...

Which part of our team is man for man so much better than Everton's? Defence? No, Midfield? No, attack? No.

The standard we want to achieve hasn't dropped but realistically we're far away from that standard which was based on SAFs best squads of the past. Hold THIS team to that same standard if you want but they've got no chance.

 

[7even]

I totally agree with you. We are so desperate for Ole to succeed that we are suspending common-sense, we are making every possible excuse for his management. To be honest I have read the most bafflingly nonsensical comments on the café after the draw at Wolves, defeat at Palace and the draw at Southampton. They have basically suggested that those results were due to the lack of investment during the summer window, as if to say that we need £180m worth of investment to beat Wolves, Palace and Southampton. Utter bonkers, yet that is exactly what now masquerades as rationale debate and logic amongst former United players and many United fans including those who run major fan platforms.

According to many United fans, despite the fact that Ole is the coach, in-game tactician, strategist, first team selector, squad rotator, motivator and mentor it is 'not his fault' that United cannot beat Palace at home or 10 man Southampton away, it's the board's fault, it is Moyes fault, it is Van Gaal's fault it is Jose's fault. In fact it is everyone's fault but Ole's.

In a nutshell, yes we have absolutely lowered the bar for Ole and we will lower it some more in order to compensate for his lack of elite level experience and ability to perform at the level required. Let's be clear, I am not one of those who think we need to get rid of him, but let's at least have the courage to hold him accountable.

Do you think that you can write a rational and a good post like this without consequences? Common sense has left the station regarding this topic.

 

[Massive Spanner]

I'm not comparing him to Klopp. I'm comparing the situations. When Klopp took over there was no difference in results. Liverpool was still a 7th place team. But they were playing better even though the scoresheet didnt' look like it. That's what we are doing now. We are playing better but not getting the results. But the results will come if we keep playing the same way. And what is this "buys himself some time" crap? We finally have a manager who has a direction of where he wants to go. This may take time. He's had 1 transfer window and so far has done really good business in not just getting British talent, but in getting young and hungry talent that wants to be here as opposed to the mercenaries that his predecessors brought in. Getting rid of Ole would be taking one step forward and two steps back...

Klopp took over midway through the season and still got them to the EFL and Europa finals. He then finished 4th in his next full season. I'm not sure how you can possibly even attempt to compare the two, I certainly don't remember Klopp having 3 wins in 15 games or whatever it currently is under Ole.

These improved performances under Ole are also fecking imaginery. What have we improved upon exactly? Our dismal performances under him at the end of last season? Our dismal performances under Mourinho before he got sacked? Well yeah, big deal, we're still much WORSE than we were under Ole in his first few months! And anyway, improved performances or not, we have 2 points out of 9 against Wolves, S'hampton and Palace!

 

[Enigma_87]

What plans?

Believing in Ed is probably the worst thing atm. Did he not say a DoF would be brought in?

He was just too lazy to do anything. We have the most incompetent board ever.

Ed does not have it in him to scout a player, manager or a DoF. Failure in all 3.

Most players brought in have failed
All managers brought in have failed.

What makes you think another manager would have succeeded?

He did before appointing Solskjaer.

The initial "plan" was the latter being a caretaker and during that time we would hire a DoF to oversee the appointment of the next manager.

He then jumped on the gun appointing Ole and rode the wave of initial good results.

IMO he thought he made a very good choice there and need no further change. The results since that decision...well we can see for ourselves.

 

[Skills]

Simply not true. You only have to look at the Moyes, LVG and Mourinho threads to find out.

There were a whole host of lunatics in each of their threads at the time, claiming none of them were backed or couldn't do any better with the players they had.

 

[SadlerMUFC]

Klopp took over midway through the season and still got them to the EFL and Europa finals. He then finished 4th in his next full season. I'm not sure how you can possibly even attempt to compare the two, I certainly don't remember Klopp having 3 wins in 15 games or whatever it currently is under Ole.

These improved performances under Ole are also fecking imaginery. What have we improved upon exactly? Our dismal performances under him at the end of last season? Our dismal performances under Mourinho before he got sacked? Well yeah, big deal, we're still much WORSE than we were under Ole in his first few months! And anyway, improved performances or not, we have 2 points out of 9 against Wolves, S'hampton and Palace!

Forget about last year. It's in the past even if we did have the 3rd most points since he took over. But I'm talking about now. What he's done since he took over from the start. We have played 4 games and were the better team in all of them. How we are on 5 points is head scratching. But if we keep playing the way that we have been, the results will come. If we were on 5 points and being out played by these teams then I would be worried. Get it????

 

[Andycoleno9]

Which part of our team is man for man so much better than Everton's? Defence? No, Midfield? No, attack? No.

The standard we want to achieve hasn't dropped but realistically we're far away from that standard which was based on SAFs best squads of the past. Hold THIS team to that same standard if you want but they've got no chance.

Our squad is better than Everton in every area. Except on most important; manager

 

[Adisa]

Which part of our team is man for man so much better than Everton's? Defence? No, Midfield? No, attack? No.

The standard we want to achieve hasn't dropped but realistically we're far away from that standard which was based on SAFs best squads of the past. Hold THIS team to that same standard if you want but they've got no chance.

This.
Last week, I was looking at the teamsheet against Southampton and I could not hand on heart say our squad was much better. I knew they would own us in midfield before a ball was kicked. The same thing will happen this weekend against Leicester. Manchester United should be challenging for trophies but no matter how many times you say it, this squad never will. We have a player who hasn't scored or assisted a goal this calendar year and you can make a decent argument he should be part of the starting XI.
I don't know for sure if Ole is the man. Personally, I have no faith in him and maintained until the very end our manager should be Pochettino(You can check the thread). I don't have confidence in him simply because he has not built a high-level squad before.
What I do know is that whoever was going to take over needed/needs time. I had certain conditions in my mind that if he met, I am more than willing to have patience.

• Get rid of most of the players
• Get the team playing high-intensity proactive football
• Give the young players as much time as possible while rebuilding
• Getting performances from his signings and the players we want to build our future around.

He obviously hasn't excelled in all areas but I have seen enough to persist with him.
Short of getting a new manager and spending 500m in one summer, I don't see any other solution.

 

[Rafaeldagold]

Because apparently we’ve had proven managers before which went ok at times but not spectacularly which means we now should hire managers with no experience (apart from a relegation) & stick with them even though results & performances are pretty bad.

# Caflogic

 

[Nikelesh Reddy]

The response was directed at: "Had this been the run of form for anyone non-United related surely would have been sacked."

Obviously he shouldn't be sacked. Ole shouldn't be either. Last season was always a write off and was a season we should never base anything off of. This season is absolutely a fresh start for Ole and the club, and it's the only way to look at it. We gave him the job, now give him a chance to make it work this season.

If we don’t qualify for the CL,should Ole be sacked?

 

[Massive Spanner]

Forget about last year. It's in the past even if we did have the 3rd most points since he took over. But I'm talking about now. What he's done since he took over from the start. We have played 4 games and were the better team in all of them. How we are on 5 points is head scratching. But if we keep playing the way that we have been, the results will come. If we were on 5 points and being out played by these teams then I would be worried. Get it????

No because I'm not sure what exactly people saw in those games that's so promising that we hadn't already seen umpteen times in games like that under Mourinho/LvG i.e. we look like the better team but our finishing is poor/can't really create chances and then get punished by silly defensive mistakes/naivety. I mean you can essentially have that as the blueprint of 80% of games we've played and drawn/lost against non top six opposition in the last 3 or 4 years.

 

[fergiesarmy1]

If we don’t qualify for the CL,should Ole be sacked?

I don’t think the club expect to qualify for it so I’d say no against that metric, sacked if there is no progress or player mutiny which is highly likely with these mercenaries.

 

[Adisa]

There were a whole host of lunatics in each of their threads at the time, claiming none of them were backed or couldn't do any better with the players they had.

With time, those voices were always in the minority.

 

[Stacks]

He has been here since December.

so 5-6 months. My point stands.

 

[Leftback99]

Our squad is better than Everton in every area. Except on most important; manager

It's marginal at best. Digne, Keane, Richarlison, Gomes, Sigurdsson would all start for us.

 

[Nikelesh Reddy]

I don’t think the club expect to qualify for it so I’d say no against that metric, sacked if there is no progress or player mutiny which is highly likely with these mercenaries.

Why was David Moyes sacked as soon as we failed to qualify for the CL in 2014?Why was LVG sacked as soon as we failed to qualify for the CL in 2016?Why should Ole be given a longer rope than managers who accomplished much much more in the game than him??

 

[Enigma_87]

so 5-6 months. My point stands.

It's middle of September.

 

[romufc]

He did before appointing Solskjaer.

The initial "plan" was the latter being a caretaker and during that time we would hire a DoF to oversee the appointment of the next manager.

He then jumped on the gun appointing Ole and rode the wave of initial good results.

IMO he thought he made a very good choice there and need no further change. The results since that decision...well we can see for ourselves.

I just cannot believe the lack of planning, that scenario there is exactly what I mean.

We are being run on a daily basis, in the moment reacting to things instead of being proactive.

If we had a plan, then Ole would not have been hired unless he won Champions League or got top 4. He did neither.

So the club should have stuck to the plan, but because they have absolutely NO plan they took the easy option.

But this is the club to blame not Ole. Which person in Ole's shoes would actually have turned the job down? No one.

 

[Stacks]

It's middle of September.

We had a Summer break.

 

[fergiesarmy1]

Why was David Moyes sacked as soon as we failed to qualify for the CL in 2014?Why was LVG sacked as soon as we failed to qualify for the CL in 2016?Why should Ole be given a longer rope than managers who accomplished much much more in the game than him??

They expected it then and quite rightly they were fired, this season has different expectations.

 

[Adisa]

@Jimmy Skitz was on the other day saying he wouldn't swap Leicester's squad for ours and I believe him. Anyone thinking we have to finish top four is on cloud 9.

 

[Enigma_87]

We had a Summer break.

Which is also time to asses the squad, work on it and actually the busiest one during the season.

 

[Adisa]

Why was David Moyes sacked as soon as we failed to qualify for the CL in 2014?Why was LVG sacked as soon as we failed to qualify for the CL in 2016?Why should Ole be given a longer rope than managers who accomplished much much more in the game than him??

Expectation.
Our situation as a club is more complex than just looking at the top four metric.

 

[Stacks]

Which is also time to asses the squad, work on it and actually the busiest one during the season.

Woodward gave Pereira a new contract and was inefficient at filling in some of our departures