Why has Ronaldo's narcissistic nature been brushed over for a decade?

[Messier1994]

1. To the OP, it hasn't. Must depend on what circles you are moving in, Ronaldo has from really early in his United career been -- disliked -- by many hard care fans and the public. Because he simply have come across as a really egoistic narcissistic type.

2. So now Ronaldo has never been a great dribbler? Like he is -- the dribbler -- of football, ever, if you look at like his first 10 years playing in the top leagues. His first years, he was only dribbling, accomplished nothing, but only dribbled. He has played at the highest level for 19 years, people that are 30 now, will not have a good grip of how he looked his first 5 years.

First Ronaldo came, he would up against a defender, make 50 dribble moves, get around him, and try to run with the ball into the goal. Kinda. People who were watching him was saying like "oh sure, he is an amazing talent, but he doesn't accomplish anything, he just dribbles for the sake of dribbling". He was Antony times 10. Not to be disrespectful, but people claiming that Iniesta was a better dribbler than Ronaldo, that is a bit laughable. You cannot judge a player based on how he have looked from like when he was 31 to 37.

Then came Messi. Messi just sought up open grass like by the side line on the right side, waited for the ball, and when he got it, he sprinted straight at goal at a truly tremendous pace with the ball and just tried to zig zag his way through everyone. Often went crashing into people, sometimes being able to get a toe on a ball.

The first games I saw Ronaldo, the first game I saw Messi, they came in as kids like Garnacho, more hype, but not ready, that was unique, something you never forget. The only really "generational" type I have experienced since that is Haaland. In 10-15 years we will think back on him and describe how the force he played, how he just took max runs at defenders that just couldn't handle the force he played for, that was unique. But Haaland is not quite at the same level as Ronaldo and Messi. Makes you long for the next real 'generational' talent in football. Kind of surprising that we have been without one for so long.

 

[André Dominguez]

Long story short: it happens in every sport on athletes who are sucessful. Conor McGregor, Myke Tyson, Rodman, McEnroe: yes, they have people who hate their guts, but they also had a long legion of followers despite their massive ego trips.

 

[Gehrman]

I think the stats is about right. I mean, even during Ronaldo time in Italy, he has made average around 1.6-1.7 dribble per game, and that 3 seasons alone he has probably had made around 180 dribbles. During his first season at Real he has made around 3.1 dribble per game. Majority of his scoring peak at Real he still managed to stay at around 2.5 figure, not until he turn into poacher during mid 2010s, he drop to around 1.5.

And surely during his early years at United being a wing wizard, we can assume it’s even more higher (My guess is 3.5 or 4, but I don’t have the figure). If we all adds up all that, he would be among the top 5 dribbler over past 15+ years for sure .

He peaked at 20 years old where he averaged 4 completed dribbles pr match. I posted a chart here once that shows his dribbling evolution and devolution so to speak.

 

[Messier1994]

It is a bit fascinating how quite many are convinced in their belief that Ronaldo never has been a top dribbler...

 

[mshnsh]

I am not going to argue whether he lacks all round brilliance during his peak because we would never agree on this.

But the fact that he was at 33-36 when he moved to Juve, at the age where most players had already retired, or heading into retirement in some farmers league. And the fact that they have gone backwards even more after he left them. I don’t think you could draw anything conclusive from that.

Serie A is a poor league these days. Average footballers like Giroud, Lukaku and Immobile have shone in that league.

 

[Adisa]

Many more like this. Hours of videos.

You must of started watching Ronaldo late in his career.

He was blistering, feck me.
For me, Man Utd Ronaldo is the most exciting player I have ever seen.
He would stand players up and then, boom.

 

[mshnsh]

If the stats are from opta, I consider them legit. Otherwise I can't vouch for the source. But if Ronaldo is 5th on the list for completed dribbles it certainly shows he's up there for his generation. Hard to believe though that he beat more players than Iniesta. Unlike Messi, Maradona, Best, Pele and Cryuff he wasn't a GOAT tier dribbler though, but still a very well rounded skilfull player.

https://www.sportbible.com/football...lers-since-200607-have-been-revealed-20200411

This is just total completed dribbles though. Not on average pr match. Both Neymar and Iniesta are higher on that.

I don't know where your stats come from but according to a sky source his highest dribbles per game (from 09/10 when dribbling stats are available)is 3.3 in 2009/10. He averaged around 2 per game to 2014/15 and than around 1 per game or less since than.

 

[Stookie]

I think that we, the fans, believed he loved the club and the fans and so was given legendary status amongst us. It’s clear now that was never the case. He cared for nothing except himself. The way he has rounded on the club, fans, his ex playing colleagues, the manager is unforgivable. If there is a way, the club should terminate his contract and United should be done with the whole saga. Move on and let him be someone else’s problem. The prick is on £400k a week and he acts like that! Can feck right off. I hope he goes bald.

 

[Gehrman]

I don't know where your stats come from but according to a sky source his highest dribbles per game (from 09/10 when dribbling stats are available)is 3.3 in 2009/10. He averaged around 2 per game to 2014/15 and than around 1 per game or less since than.

Several articles on this refers to Opta as the source since 2006.

 

[RedRonaldo]

1. To the OP, it hasn't. Must depend on what circles you are moving in, Ronaldo has from really early in his United career been -- disliked -- by many hard care fans and the public. Because he simply have come across as a really egoistic narcissistic type.

2. So now Ronaldo has never been a great dribbler? Like he is -- the dribbler -- of football, ever, if you look at like his first 10 years playing in the top leagues. His first years, he was only dribbling, accomplished nothing, but only dribbled. He has played at the highest level for 19 years, people that are 30 now, will not have a good grip of how he looked his first 5 years.

First Ronaldo came, he would up against a defender, make 50 dribble moves, get around him, and try to run with the ball into the goal. Kinda. People who were watching him was saying like "oh sure, he is an amazing talent, but he doesn't accomplish anything, he just dribbles for the sake of dribbling". He was Antony times 10. Not to be disrespectful, but people claiming that Iniesta was a better dribbler than Ronaldo, that is a bit laughable. You cannot judge a player based on how he have looked from like when he was 31 to 37.

Then came Messi. Messi just sought up open grass like by the side line on the right side, waited for the ball, and when he got it, he sprinted straight at goal at a truly tremendous pace with the ball and just tried to zig zag his way through everyone. Often went crashing into people, sometimes being able to get a toe on a ball.

The first games I saw Ronaldo, the first game I saw Messi, they came in as kids like Garnacho, more hype, but not ready, that was unique, something you never forget. The only really "generational" type I have experienced since that is Haaland. In 10-15 years we will think back on him and describe how the force he played, how he just took max runs at defenders that just couldn't handle the force he played for, that was unique. But Haaland is not quite at the same level as Ronaldo and Messi. Makes you long for the next real 'generational' talent in football. Kind of surprising that we have been without one for so long.

I sort of agree. During Ronaldo early years, he is easily among the top 2 or 3 dribbler in the game, probably only behind Ronaldinho. Thats during the Joga Bonito time.

Then of course, after Ronaldinho faded, Messi arrives into the scene, take the crown and became ahead and shoulders above everyone in dribbling. Ronaldo would still be among the top 3 or 4 dribbler in the game for a while though, maybe alongside young Neymar, and Robben. He then slowly falls behind the rank in dribbling over the years, and turn his focus more on goalscoring instead.

 

[RedRonaldo]

Serie A is a poor league these days. Average footballers like Giroud, Lukaku and Immobile have shone in that league.

That's not the point I was trying to make though. I was referring to part where you are questioning his success at Real Madrid by using his time at Juventus as a proof. But fact remain he was already 33-36 at Juventus, and they went even further backwards after he was gone.

 

[Gehrman]

1. To the OP, it hasn't. Must depend on what circles you are moving in, Ronaldo has from really early in his United career been -- disliked -- by many hard care fans and the public. Because he simply have come across as a really egoistic narcissistic type.

2. So now Ronaldo has never been a great dribbler? Like he is -- the dribbler -- of football, ever, if you look at like his first 10 years playing in the top leagues. His first years, he was only dribbling, accomplished nothing, but only dribbled. He has played at the highest level for 19 years, people that are 30 now, will not have a good grip of how he looked his first 5 years.

First Ronaldo came, he would up against a defender, make 50 dribble moves, get around him, and try to run with the ball into the goal. Kinda. People who were watching him was saying like "oh sure, he is an amazing talent, but he doesn't accomplish anything, he just dribbles for the sake of dribbling". He was Antony times 10. Not to be disrespectful, but people claiming that Iniesta was a better dribbler than Ronaldo, that is a bit laughable. You cannot judge a player based on how he have looked from like when he was 31 to 37.

Then came Messi. Messi just sought up open grass like by the side line on the right side, waited for the ball, and when he got it, he sprinted straight at goal at a truly tremendous pace with the ball and just tried to zig zag his way through everyone. Often went crashing into people, sometimes being able to get a toe on a ball.

The first games I saw Ronaldo, the first game I saw Messi, they came in as kids like Garnacho, more hype, but not ready, that was unique, something you never forget. The only really "generational" type I have experienced since that is Haaland. In 10-15 years we will think back on him and describe how the force he played, how he just took max runs at defenders that just couldn't handle the force he played for, that was unique. But Haaland is not quite at the same level as Ronaldo and Messi. Makes you long for the next real 'generational' talent in football. Kind of surprising that we have been without one for so long.

It's not at all laughable to suggest that Iniesta was a better dribbler than Ronaldo. In fact he had the highest dribbling success rate over anyone including Messi and a higher completed dribbles pr game than Ronaldo while Ronaldo was 10th dribbling success rate.

https://www.barcablaugranes.com/201...-anyone-since-records-began-and-its-not-close

 

[Messier1994]

I sort of agree. During Ronaldo early years, he is easily among the top 2 or 3 dribbler in the game, probably only behind Ronaldinho. Thats during the Joga Bonito time.

Then of course, after Ronaldinho faded, Messi arrives into the scene, take the crown and became ahead and shoulders above everyone in dribbling. Ronaldo would still be among the top 3 or 4 dribbler in the game for a while though, maybe alongside young Neymar, and Robben. He then slowly falls behind the rank in dribbling over the years, and turn his focus more on goalscoring instead.

Yeah, and I think that Ronaldinho to some extent was a complete wizard, he turned guys inside out, but did a lot more than that. Not sure he would have had a ton of instances per 90 where he literary beats his guy.

I think we 100% agree on Messi, but its a bit of a definition matter from my POV if his massive amount of "carries" should be labeled as dribbles. So often he just attacked a gap between two defenders and got past them before they could close it.

 

[Messier1994]

It's not at all laughable to suggest that Iniesta was a better dribbler than Ronaldo. In fact he had the highest take ones completed over anyone including Messi and a higher completed dribbles pr game than Ronaldo.

https://www.barcablaugranes.com/201...-anyone-since-records-began-and-its-not-close

You take those numbers as gospel.

In reality, what did Iniesta do? Someone passed him a ball, he was pressured, he turned away from that pressure and passed the ball forward. Is that "a dribble"? Perhaps, its a matter of definition. We can call it whatever we want.

But to say that Iniesta is a better dribbler because of it is definitely laughable. Completely different type of plays when a midfielder partakes in tiki-taka plays at center field compared to when a winger does it in a 1 on 1 situation with a defender.

Edit:
Found a perfect video of it for you:

 

[RedRonaldo]

He peaked at 20 years old where he averaged 4 completed dribbles pr match. I posted a chart here once that shows his dribbling evolution and devolution so to speak.

That's for posting that. Its really hard to find those dribbling stats prior to 09/10. This also matches my memory of him during his early years, he was simply a dribbling wizard back then.

 

[genardk]

He was always like this and it was never really brushed over, just ignored by his fans/his team's fans

But he was generally more careful with his public image to try and minimize this aspect of his personality to keep sanitized. Likely his family situation has made go off the rails so now he's showing his arsehole to the world

They all show their true colors when things begin to go wrong in terms of performance, accusing everybody else during your downfall is a typical characteristic of narcissists.

 

[Gehrman]

You take those numbers as gospel.

In reality, what did Iniesta do? Someone passed him a ball, he was pressured, he turned away from that pressure and passed the ball forward. Is that "a dribble"? Perhaps, its a matter of definition. We can call it whatever we want.

But to say that Iniesta is a better dribbler because of it is definitely laughable. Completely different type of plays when a midfielder partakes in tiki-taka plays at center field compared to when a winger does it in a 1 on 1 situation with a defender.

Edit:
Found a perfect video of it for you:

Yeah I mean he just turns around and passes the ball to the nearest team mate.... Iniesta had some of the best close control skills of a midfielder since Zidane.

 

[Stacks]

Early years was an exercise in brainless step overs, running into cul de sacs, way ward shooting etc. Was exciting to watch in his debut season, I'll give you that.

06/07 is my favourite version of Cristiano when he was involved in the games beyond goals, his decision making improved immeasurably and was great to watch.

After that season, he became a goalscoring machine with more and more limited allround play over the years. I've watched so many games of his at United (07/08 and 08/09) and at Madrid (including his peak years) where his only contribution would be goals. Fortunately for him, he scored loads so more often than not he would get the attention despite being otherwise unremarkable. And there were many games where you would feel like he is pretty much playing to score and that's it, like a no 9.

When it comes to tricks, his never looked spontaneous or meaningful like Ronaldinho or Neymar. More like Antony.

Many many years later. What are his peak years to you? For me its his 1st 6 years at Madrid up until he reached 30 ish.His early Madrid years he was hella dynamic. I'd say from his 30s he only offered mostly poaching.

 

[mshnsh]

Several articles on this refers to Opta as the source since 2006.

I haven’t come any reference to opta. But the sky article:
https://www.skysports.com/football/...lific-but-his-role-has-changed-at-real-madrid.
He wasnt a great dribbler at any point during his time at Madrid. 3.3 per game in his debut season, around 2 per game till 2014/15 and 1 per game or less later in his career.

I sort of agree. During Ronaldo early years, he is easily among the top 2 or 3 dribbler in the game, probably only behind Ronaldinho. Thats during the Joga Bonito time.

Then of course, after Ronaldinho faded, Messi arrives into the scene, take the crown and became ahead and shoulders above everyone in dribbling. Ronaldo would still be among the top 3 or 4 dribbler in the game for a while though, maybe alongside young Neymar, and Robben. He then slowly falls behind the rank in dribbling over the years, and turn his focus more on goalscoring instead.

Not true at all. The one season when Ronaldo dribbled really well was 06/07. I don't know why you keep exaggerating regarding his dribbling other than being a fan boy.

Neymar has always been on another level interms of dribbling when compared to Ronaldo at anypoint in his career. Robben would probably be similar in terms of dribbling to a young Cristiano. But better than Cristiano of Real Madrid.

 

[SportingCP96]

It is a bit fascinating how quite many are convinced in their belief that Ronaldo never has been a top dribbler...

It’s hilarious when people say “just a poacher” his game has changed so much through out his career it’s insane.

In the first United era he was a top 2 dribbler in the world. So much so that all you would see at that time was Ronaldo vs Ronaldinho in YouTube.

Messi is clearly a better dribbler but to say they Ronaldo was not one of the best is insane. Premier league defenders were left on their behind every game because of him.

 

[SportingCP96]

He was blistering, feck me.
For me, Man Utd Ronaldo is the most exciting player I have ever seen.
He would stand players up and then, boom.

Their are some clips in their where he was yards behind other players and gets too the ball first.

Sometimes I honestly forget how fast he was. He had players clutching at states because not only was he physically fast but his skill moves were conducted at such a high pace it was extremely hard to defend.

 

[SportingCP96]

He was blistering, feck me.
For me, Man Utd Ronaldo is the most exciting player I have ever seen.
He would stand players up and then, boom.

This one is a great watch, just commentary no bs musics.

 

[Messier1994]

It’s hilarious when people say “just a poacher” his game has changed so much through out his career it’s insane.

In the first United era he was a top 2 dribbler in the world. So much so that all you would see at that time was Ronaldo vs Ronaldinho in YouTube.

Messi is clearly a better dribbler but to say they Ronaldo was not one of the best is insane. Premier league defenders were left on their behind every game because of him.

Exactly, when I first started reading this thread I was amazed.

Then I realized that the only reason people don’t have track of young Ronaldo is because you have to be extremely old to have seen like his first season. We aren’t talking about a group of teenagers here that are too young to know what they are talking about. If you are 35 y/o, you are probably too young…

 

[Messier1994]

Not giving a watch to Piers tonight. Gonna check United Stands comment on it.

 

[Messier1994]

Or do you guys have any other tip for how to get the info from the interview without watching it through Piers channel?

 

[SportingCP96]

Exactly, when I first started reading this thread I was amazed.

Then I realized that the only reason people don’t have track of young Ronaldo is because you have to be extremely old to have seen like his first season. We aren’t talking about a group of teenagers here that are too young to know what they are talking about. If you are 35 y/o, you are probably too young…

The problem is people only remember the most recent years and create their own narrative.

I’ve said it before but I don’t know another player who had all the attributes Ronaldo had all at once in his prime. Complete freak of the game, as if he was created in a lab.

 

[appleman]

His goals, the stories about taking ice baths and those weird naps to keep in top shape for a long time, high jumping, high stats in fifa and pes, that siuuu sound thing help people like kids, fans and people who think stars don't need to be decent human beings look away or accept his faults. – possibly things like the sob parts of this morgan story and the rumors of his secret charity spending helped tip things in his favor in some cases, or when he seemed to be coaching his team in the Euro final, while at the time Messi was mostly distant at the Argentine NT, made him look like a secret good guy.

And to help people who sue him and such to forgive him, there's money. Lots and lots of money.

Other people hated him pretty constantly, either for his goofy personality, or the things that other people ignored, forgot or forgave. These people are eating this season, and especially after this christmas miracle. He's showing such a lack of character on the pitch and manipulation off it that not even the horrific thing he experienced earlier in the year seems enough to cut him some slack.

Just so you know: I do hope he and his family able to recover from that tragedy and I think he should have been taken seriously regarding his daughter by both the fans and the club if what he says is true. But the way he's "defending" himself against criticism smells of a lot of lies. Plus, both being good at kicking balls (or anything really) and having experienced trauma of any kind does not excuse disrespectful behaviour imo. Even if ETH did disrespect him, how flopping childish is it to lose all of your own morality and responsibility over someone else's choices? What the hell is wrong with him or people like Soeness who think you have to massage someone's genitals if they are good at something and bad at being a human being? Great message to the kids: Find something you're good at, because then you're allowed to be absolute schnit everywhere else.

I think it’s a large part of what has driven him to be as good as he is. That’s why I struggle to get that angry about all this. People knew what he was.

I think it turning overt now instead of (kinda?) covert is what bugs people who were more allowed to keep their eyes closed. Plus, people think it makes sense when a star is arrogant or outright rude. When their stardom drops, their behaviour might not align as much anymore and people start freaking out.

 

[Gazza]

Or do you guys have any other tip for how to get the info from the interview without watching it through Piers channel?

All salient bits will be clipped or summarized on the Blue Tick Platform

 

[Messier1994]

All salient bits will be clipped or summarized on the Blue Tick Platform

Perfect, would have to take a rape shower if I watched it on Piers channel…

 

[FrankFoot]

Exactly, when I first started reading this thread I was amazed.

Then I realized that the only reason people don’t have track of young Ronaldo is because you have to be extremely old to have seen like his first season. We aren’t talking about a group of teenagers here that are too young to know what they are talking about. If you are 35 y/o, you are probably too young…

Problem is certain people are to obsessed with dribbling, it is great an all that, but i believe Messi is a better player not just because of dribbling, his superior passing and playmaking also makes him better than Ronaldo as a player.

Ronaldo dribbling up untill 2014 was great, not as good as Ronaldinho or Messi, but Ronaldo is still a better player than Ronaldinho, especially because Dinho peak was way too short...just because Dinho was a better dribbler for like 3 years doesn't mean he is a better player than CR7.
Dribbling isn't everything about a player, just the same way being physically handsome isn't the only way to attract women, you can use your intelligence, humour, personality, and wealth too.

I think people forgot that Ronaldo was great at dribbling because the massive amount of goals he scored post 2014, when he became a poacher for Real, which coincided with 4 CLs won in 5 years, so most will remember the time when he won more trophies.

Anyways he had an impeccable career, and is easily top 5-10 in history of Football, which is nothing to be ashamed of (his ego would want him to become the first, but that's another history).

 

[Gehrman]

Exactly, when I first started reading this thread I was amazed.

Then I realized that the only reason people don’t have track of young Ronaldo is because you have to be extremely old to have seen like his first season. We aren’t talking about a group of teenagers here that are too young to know what they are talking about. If you are 35 y/o, you are probably too young…

As a 35 year old you're really not too young to have watched Ronnie's young Man utd years if you were a Man Utd fan in your childhood or teenage years. I went to Old Trafford my first time when I was 11 in 98. But anyway I wasn't one of those arguing Ronaldo was never more than a poacher anyway. Still I don't know how you arrived at 35 as being too young to watch Ronnie. Do most people start watching football when they are 25 or what?

 

[Bondi77]

The more value you are to an employer the more you are allowed to get away with or have covered up....Jimmy Saville is a prime example.

 

[FrankFoot]

I'm very curious Are there any posters that are in the top 1% of his company or his job? Or even the top 0.1%? The reason I'm asking that is maybe some 1 percenters here or some bona fide mega stars can relate to Ronaldo? The overwhelming majority of stars in their profession have a sense of arrogance and entitlement that is very understandable. They make more than almost everyone else and they achieve more than almost everyone else. In fact, I see a lot more Ronaldos than Messis in the real world when it comes to success.

Yeah, i think this is legit.

Nobody here, including me, can relate to Cristiano, as nobody here is top 1% performer at their job...if they were, they wouldn't be roaming in a Football forum online discussing about GOATs.

As someone who worked with some people being considered top performers of the company i work for, they were insufferable to be around, and they weren't even top 1% of their career overall, just the best at the company... can't imagine how insufferable must be the real top 1%.

Ronaldo just likes to show how much a cnut he is on camera, unlike the majority of 1% performers who do it when the camera is off.

 

[RedRonaldo]

Not true at all. The one season when Ronaldo dribbled really well was 06/07. I don't know why you keep exaggerating regarding his dribbling other than being a fan boy.

Well let’s just say I’ve joined this forum way longer than you do (since 2003) and have watched every single games of his since his debut, so I think I can form quite an honest opinion (at least from my perspective), even if you are not going to agree with that.

The fact that there are people posting his early footage and dribbling stats here in this thread, saying similar things of him, alone the lines of him being (one of) the most exciting player (dribbler) they have ever watched (during his early years), I’d say maybe we should agree to disagree on this one.

 

[B20]

Exactly, when I first started reading this thread I was amazed.

Then I realized that the only reason people don’t have track of young Ronaldo is because you have to be extremely old to have seen like his first season. We aren’t talking about a group of teenagers here that are too young to know what they are talking about. If you are 35 y/o, you are probably too young…

feckinell

 

[B20]

I think people forgot that Ronaldo was great at dribbling because the massive amount of goals he scored post 2014, when he became a poacher for Real, which coincided with 4 CLs won in 5 years, so most will remember the time when he won more trophies.

That's probably the case. Ironically, I think his most dull seasons in terms of dribbling and flair prior to that were his last two seasons at united.

His first four seasons at Real were probably the best of his career in terms of performance. He scored loads and looked a world class player outside of goalscoring too. He had one league title to show for it and was continually overshadowed by Messi those years, who won the Balon D’or in every one of those four seasons.

United fans remember the either/or version when it came to dribbling and goalscoring and that became a theme again later in his career. Real had both for a fair while when they were perpetual also rans though.

 

[duffer]

Then I realized that the only reason people don’t have track of young Ronaldo is because you have to be extremely old to have seen like his first season.

Mods, ban this person. I have been attacked and I don't like it

 

[Gehrman]

Mods, ban this person. I have been attacked and I don't like it

I wonder if Messi is too young to have watched Cristiano Ronaldo. He's 35 after all.

 

[Ish]

It wasn't by most people. The people who liked him just had their heads in the sand because he was very good at football.

This a million percent.

 

[Zlaatan]

I wonder if Messi is too young to have watched Cristiano Ronaldo. He's 35 after all.

You would have to be extremely old to have seen a 37-year old play his first season so a 35-year old is probably too young.