Why has the French national team been so good since 1998?

Redfrog

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Go read up on some scientific journals, the out of africa theory is far from concrete, and it has nothing to do with contradicting evolution and I rather not base my morals on science anyway.

It's not racist to point to their heritage, very recent ones at that as well, we all come from somewhere after all which will inevitably affect our development and im sure he had no foul intentions.
I read plenty about human evolution and the out of Africa is the most accepted theory.
By the way, I don’t even know what « I rather not base morals on science » means.

Saying they are not French is not pointing their heritage, it’s just saying they are not french because of their roots, which is ridiculous. It doesn’t matter if you are French of the first generation or the fifth, as long as you speak the language and grow up there.
Is there a magical number of generations which makes you French ? That was a theory of a famous right wing racist in France named Le Pen.
 

Red the Bear

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I read plenty about human evolution and the out of Africa is the most accepted theory.
By the way, I don’t even know what « I rather not base morals on science » means.

Saying they are not French is not pointing their heritage, it’s just saying they are not french because of their roots, which is ridiculous. It doesn’t matter if you are French of the first generation or the fifth, as long as you speak the language and grow up there.
Is there a magical number of generations which makes you French ? That was a theory of a famous right wing racist in France named Le Pen.
Here's an Article challenging that hypothesis which shows its far from concrete.
What i said is pretty straightforward as well, science is always evolving and will continue to do so, it said blacks were inferior a hundred or so years ago and it was wrong, I rather not base my morality on ever changing hypotheses but that's unrrlate to the post.

Giorno is Italian, I doubt think he was referencing le pen , he also didn’t claim they're not french, just pointed out their ancestry which im sure those players will acknowledge and may be proud off.

Anyway we already derailed the thread enough, let's leave it at that.
 

Redfrog

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Here's an Article challenging that hypothesis which shows its far from concrete.
What i said is pretty straightforward as well, science is always evolving and will continue to do so, it said blacks were inferior a hundred or so years ago and it was wrong, I rather not base my morality on ever changing hypotheses but that's unrrlate to the post.

Giorno is Italian, I doubt think he was referencing le pen , he also didn’t claim they're not french, just pointed out their ancestry which im sure those players will acknowledge and may be proud off.

Anyway we already derailed the thread enough, let's leave it at that.
Your article doesn’t contradict the out of Africa theory. Of course there were several waves of migration. But the commun ancestors of humans are from Africa. Then they moved in different waves to Asia then to Europe and from Asia to Europe. The sapiens even mixed with the Neanderthalis man . That doesn’t change the fact that they all came originally from Africa. But it wasn’t in one wave. And other species as Neanderthalis and denesovian man mixed with Sapiens. Genetics is showing us that.

Giorno is Italian…yeah, did you see who was elected there ?
 

berbatrick

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Great article from ESPN about the French's development of their kids in the several years, I recommend everyone should read this article. Will not spoil anything since it's worth enough to read and learn the excellent process of cultivating kids into megastars. This article has already answered a lot of questions and curiousness about the reason why French has produced a lot of WC players in recent years.

will have to post this again


Article

When Tottenham Hotspur's new recruit, Tanguy Ndombele, made his professional debut for Angers three years ago in a French League Cup game against Clermont, there were just 1,508 people in attendance. Only 4,436 spectators saw a tall, elegant striker called Olivier Giroud make his first-team bow for Grenoble in March 2006, while scarcely 5,000 people watched Kylian Mbappe's first run-out for Monaco in December 2015.

There isn't a great deal of glamour to go around when you're starting out as a professional football player in France, and this is the contradiction that sits at the heart of the French game. French domestic football is often accused of lacking broad appeal, yet the players it produces make fans across the world go weak at the knees. The France national team's victory at last year's World Cup showed that the country's talent production line is in rude health, but the signs were there even before Hugo Llorishoisted the gold trophy aloft beneath the Moscow rain.

There were 52 French-born players present in Russia for the tournament, making it the fourth successive World Cup at which France has supplied more players than any other competing nation. More than a quarter of the players whose teams reached the semifinals had come through French youth academies, while a study published by the CIES Football Observatory in May this year revealed that France is the second-biggest global exporter of professional footballers behind Brazil. In turn, France's Ligue de Football Professionnel has put the bankability of the country's young stars squarely at the heart of its marketing strategy, announcing last year that Ligue 1's new slogan would be "The League of Talents."


Increasingly, the Paris region serves as French football's engine room. Eight of the 23 players in Didier Deschamps's triumphant France squad last summer grew up in the capital's suburbs, with several high-profile Parisiens -- among them Adrien Rabiot, Kingsley Coman and Anthony Martial -- failing to make the cut.


The multicultural, densely populated Parisian banlieues align all the elements required for an ideal football breeding ground: an extremely high concentration of young players, a plentiful supply of municipal sports facilities and a culture of fast-paced informal matches on small pitches where technical dexterity and individual expression are allowed to flourish.

"You find lots of players with high technical qualities, in terms of dribbling, tricks and one-on-ones," says Yves Gergaud, a youth coach and recruiter who helped bring through France internationals Coman, Presnel Kimpembé and Ferland Mendy at Paris Saint-Germain. "Most of the time, they're never more than 10 minutes away from a pitch."

The same kind of environment can be found, albeit on a smaller scale, in the suburbs of other major French cities such as Lyon and Marseille. While France is not alone in producing lots of talented young footballers, the country benefits from a meticulously stratified youth development system.

In 1973, the French Professional Charter came into force, obliging all professional clubs in France to establish youth academies. Today there are 37 such academies in operation, catering for around 2,000 players aged between 15 and 20. In addition, there are 22 pre-training centres -- 15 for boys, seven for girls -- that look after players aged 13 to 15, the most famous of which is the fabled Clairefontaine facility located in the Forest of Rambouillet, southwest of Paris. There is also one in Guadeloupe in the south Caribbean and one on the island of Réunion in the Indian Ocean, both of which are French overseas territories.

Mirroring developments in Europe's other leading football nations, France now prizes technical ability more than anything else when it comes to youth recruitment and youth coaching. Former Liverpool manager Gérard Houllier successfully pushed for a greater focus on ball work at the youth level during his tenure as France's national technical director between 1988-98. That emphasis only increased after Spanish football succeeded in reaching the summit of the sport between 2008 and '12.


Gerard Bonneau, a former youth recruiter at Lyon whose protégés included Martial, Samuel Umtiti, Karim Benzema, Hatem Ben Arfa, Alexandre Lacazette and Nabil Fekir, says the prototypical French player is an alliance of athleticism and technical excellence.

"The basis is a player who can adapt to any playing system and use both feet," he told ESPN. "French players are very clean, technically, and lots of our players are naturally very athletic.

"I think I'd be able to spot a French player if I saw him playing, even if I didn't know him."

Coinciding with Spain's rise, the French national team's infamous training ground strike at the 2010 World Cup in South Africa (an incident known simply as "Knysna," which was where the strike took place), served to further expedite the move toward a more collective style of football.

"Simultaneously, after the emergence of Spain, there was Knysna," former France Under-21s coach Erick Mombaerts told So Foot magazine in December. "In France, there has subsequently been even more willingness to develop the collective aspect. Because if you focus on the athletic side of things, you leave too much room for individualism. [You have to] put the collective game in the centre of everything."

There are concerns within the French Football Federation that France's reputation for talent production will lead to more young players being lured away before the country's football fans have had a chance to enjoy them in the flesh. Paul Pogba joined Manchester United before he had made his first-team debut for Le Havre, and in recent years, players such as Raphaël Varane, Umtiti, Martial, Coman and Ousmane Dembélé have all moved abroad before reaching their mid-20s.

But one of the reasons France has become such a world-renowned exporter of talent is that for many of its clubs, developing young players is the only way to stay alive. PSG's owners aside, investors have generally been reluctant to plough money into Ligue 1 clubs, and with the French football authorities' financial regulators keeping a close eye on the profit and loss sheets, funds generated by transfers acquire singular importance.


Gergaud cites the example of Sochaux, where until recently he worked as head of youth recruitment. The Ligue 2 club were facing punitive relegation to France's third tier because they had not balanced their books, only for their youth system to come to the rescue.

"You look at Sochaux, who have thankfully been saved by their academy," Gergaud told ESPN. "If [Lucien] Agoumé hadn't gone to Inter Milan, if there wasn't going to be a return on the investment in [Marcus] Thuram, if Jeando Fuchs hadn't gone to Alavés, the club would have submitted its balance sheet and been relegated."


The future of French youth development will involve taking more steps to address young players' psychological needs. Lyon, whose academy is one of the best in Europe, have already made moves in that direction, setting up a psychological wellness programme that offers yoga sessions, hypnotherapy and access to mental preparation coaches for players aged 12 and above. The hope is that by treating young players more attentively, fewer talented youngsters will slip between the cracks.


"We still need to work on the mental approach toward young players who don't 'fit' at the academies," says Bonneau. "It's about not giving up when we come across a 'difficult' boy. All the clubs do the right training. What we're less good at is understanding why a player isn't making progress."

The World Cup win has only served to increase the number of scouts and agents stalking the banlieues, with Gergaud describing the current situation in Paris as "madness." Every team around Europe is on the lookout for the next big thing.

In hotly tipped teenage prospects such as Lyon's Rayan Cherki, PSG's Adil Aouchiche and Marseille's Isaac Lihadji, there is no shortage of
The article is fake news misinformation and should be banned: Giroud is not elegant.
 

KikiDaKats

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Reason:
RB CB CB CB
DM. DM BB
W S. AM

Copy and paste every tournament.

They understand the key to winning tournaments like the Germans before them is solidity. They’ve always had good generations of players but they’ve come to accept the importance of solidity and playing to not concede.
 

Red Pumpkin

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I wonder how long it will take before their clubs have success on the big stage.
They have been knocking on the door for a while now. The last 10 or so years Bordeaux, Monaco, Lyon and PSG have all reached the semifinals or the final of the Champions League. Marseille has reached the quarters in UCL and final of Europa League. Lille has yet to replicate domestic form in Europe but have reached 1/16 of UCL. That shows strength in depth. Main problem at the moment is that the good teams like Montpellier, Lille, Rennes get their best players bought up before they can achieve something in Europe if they have had a successful season domestically. The talent is there for sure.

France has a similar percentage of immigrant population as Spain (15%), and Spain does not have an NT full of children of immigrants. Spain was also the most succesful NT of the previous decade. I think that would indicate something other than immigration is at play.
Spain won 2008-2012 with one of the best teams of all time. Apart from that they have achieved nothing before or since, it's a myth. Right now they are back at the level they have always been at.
Playing devils advocate, maybe if Spain integrated more immigrant kids into their system there would be more than just Ansu Fati to show for it? Just speculating here though, I don’t know anything about the Spanish football system. Or maybe they decide to play for the country of their parents more often?
I have wondered the same before. I know Hakimi said he "didn't feel at home" in the Spanish youth teams. Funny thing is Spain is his birthplace and his arabic is all over the place, Spanish is clearly his mother tongue. It seems like Spain has some ways to go before the sons of immigrants feel welcome and can perform for the national team.
 

Cassanata99

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The reason isn't so much that the immigrants who came to France were inherently better at football or from great footballing countries, it's that France has historically not been that enamoured with football. They were always more of a rugby nation. It isn't until the 80's, when 1st and 2nd generation immigrants reached professional age, that football began to develop and be taken more seriously. The immigrants from North and West Africa didn't care about Rugby, but were obsessed with football.
 

JPRouve

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The reason isn't so much that the immigrants who came to France were inherently better at football or from great footballing countries, it's that France has historically not been that enamoured with football. They were always more of a rugby nation. It isn't until the 80's, when 1st and 2nd generation immigrants reached professional age, that football began to develop and be taken more seriously. The immigrants from North and West Africa didn't care about Rugby, but were obsessed with football.
That's not the case. France as a whole has always leaned toward Football more than Rugby, Rugby is big in the south west part of the country but the rest is more Football than Rugby. And Football was extremely popular in the 60s-70s which is why ASSE are to this day, one of the better supported club in France.
 

giorno

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Yes, that true. Except if you think the theory of evolution is false.

And saying to people that are born and bread in a country that they are not from this country is racist, no matter how your intentions are.
Which is entirely not what i said, but ok
 

That_Bloke

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I don't know how much "immigration" can explain when people are immigrants from countries that aren't particularly great at football.
General lack of proper footballing infrastructures and will at the highest level to nurture their players. Africa has talented players in spades, and not since yesterday, but most of the time, they can only fulfill their potential if they go abroad.
 

That_Bloke

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France has a similar percentage of immigrant population as Spain (15%), and Spain does not have an NT full of children of immigrants. Spain was also the most succesful NT of the previous decade. I think that would indicate something other than immigration is at play.
And you've done feck all before your golden generation and feck all since.

Aside from their fantastic youth system, France's ability to integrate and give a chance to their immigrant players is their greatest strength. That makes their talent supply line almost endless and they're proving it year after year.
 

LARulz

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Immigration is too easy an excuse. Yes obviously their team is diverse which is fantastic but as we've seen elsewhere, just cos there is talent doesn't mean there is a path to the top

The French FA I know has had a lot of corruption and nastiness but there seems to be a good path for most young players to professional teams. The youth coaching must be good, they must be happy to promote from within
 

That_Bloke

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I think it goes beyond football. Drive through the french countryside and every little village will have some place with goals to kick the ball about. They take care of their shit. Where I grew up there was 1 public spot with actual goals I could walk to, and it had so many holes in it you could practically call for an orthopedic appointment before playing (and that was in a city).

These things matter in the development of talent. (The dutch are similar in my experience, if they had the population of France they'd be doing as good I think).
You can add Germany to the lot.
 

Lecland07

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I believe France benefits from its geographical position. The country is positioned in the middle of all the countries that have major football leagues: Spain, Germany, England and Italy.

I would not be surprised if France are more likely to have multitudes of players experienced in different leagues, due to this, which I think is beneficial. I think there is more of a willingness to move as France pretty much borders all of these countries.
 

Steven7290

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Since 1998 is definitely a stretch:

In world cups: finished dead last in their group 2002, 2006 got to the final but we all knew what happened, 2010 with the infamous handball in the qualifier then humiliated by Mexico later to finish dead last in the group, 2014 nothing to write home about, then 2018 they were amazing with that squad.

In Euros: won 2000, did ok in 2004 only losing to the eventual champion, 2008 last in group, 2012 first game in the KO stage to eventual champion, 2016 2nd place and 2022 first game in KO stage.

To sum it up they have a massive dip between 2000 and 2016 in term of quality and result. Since 2018 though they have been amazing, tbf its hard not to with that squad they have.
 

FootballHQ

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Winning a home world cup in 98 certainly inspired future generations and they already had infrastructure in place at Clairefontaine so advanced ahead of likes of England and Germany who were stronger generally in the 90s.

I wouldn't say there's some mystical quality about them as their NT just goes in cycles like everything else. Their tournament results in the 2000s were actually very poor after euro 2000 bar the Zidane inspired world cup run and that was a consequence of the 90s core just getting old and appointing a poor manager in Domenech which eventually lead to mutiny in South Africa.

Go back to 2007 ish and many of their great hopes then didn't really kick on, Mexes, Djbril Cisse, Ben Arfa, Menez and Nasri never really did much at NT level despite being pretty good at club level in that period. Their euro 2008 squad was classic case of between generations when you look at the age profile of the squad and it resulted in group stage exit.

What they always do well is build on position of strength, 2014 world cup was a decent performance and then they kicked on and secured back to back final appearances while integrating many talented young players in all positions so they really are stacked and very impressive if they win this World cup with arguably 4-5 certain starters all ruled out by injury as hardly any other NT could cope with that level of injury.
 

Righteous Steps

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In the sense that there are more people, sure.

As I mentioned, though, the French players are born in France. Their parents, as far as I'm aware, were not high-level sportsmen with better genes. So unless we are going to say that Africans and Caribbean people have "sports ability" in their genetic makeup, the expansion of the talent pool should be the same as standard population growth like the one seen before France was a powerhouse.
Can’t we say this? Just look at the 100m lineups every year in the Olympics.
 

amolbhatia50k

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Other European countries don't have the same connections in Africa as France does. They have systematically poached the best talent out of there.
Yup its a huge factor.

I can see their stranglehold continuing for a decent bit. They keep churning out big talents like it's nothing. 2 WCs probably in a row and no reason why they'll have a dought anytime soon.
 

Redfrog

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Which is entirely not what i said, but ok
« There's never been a truly great french player of french ancestry » is what you said. « French ancestry » is borderline racist concept. Hell, you even said that Platini is third generation immigrant. How many generations do you need to be « French ancestry » ? Does your blood line does need to go back to Louis XIV or something ?
Sorry, I am very sensible with this kind of stuff, even more so with all the xenophobia progressing in Europe. I guess you are not aware about your new Italian leader.
 

giorno

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« There's never been a truly great french player of french ancestry » is what you said. « French ancestry » is borderline racist concept. Hell, you even said that Platini is third generation immigrant. How many generations do you need to be « French ancestry » ? Does your blood line does need to go back to Louis XIV or something ?
Sorry, I am very sensible with this kind of stuff, even more so with all the xenophobia progressing in Europe. I guess you are not aware about your new Italian leader.
Dude, 1st generation french is french. That whole part of the post was very much tongue-in-cheek, not to be taken seriously, and if french ancestry is a borderline racist concept that's news to me. Good to know, apologies then. I'll use frank-norman-gaul-latin next time

Bolded: 2. If either of your parents is french that means you are of french ancestry. It's pretty simple

Bolded #2: yes, because i live with my head buried under a rock....
 
Last edited:

Redfrog

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Dude, 1st generation french is french. That whole part of the post was very much tongue-in-cheek, not to be taken seriously, and if french ancestry is a borderline racist concept that's news to me. Good to know, apologies then. I'll use frank-norman-gaul-latin next time

Bolded: 2. If either of your parents is french that means you are of french ancestry. It's pretty simple

Bolded #2: yes, because i live with my head buried under a rock....
Ok, thanks for the answer.
 

giorno

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Ok, thanks for the answer.
To be clear by french i mean french nationality. Since France is a nation, not an ethnic group

I see my use of it in that sense even in jest was thoughtless, fair enough
 

razornoir

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The real reason let’s be fair. It’s because in France we are ALL racist. We hate each other.

White hate black and Arab
Arab hate black and white
Black hate white and arab
everyone hate Chinese
And Indian we don’t care.

Imagine racist children playing together. who want to be the sub of that white/black/Arab mf.

Racism make competitiveness.
 

Lee565

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There are plenty of ingredients for the recipe of success they have had but would be interested to know which nations have the most players playing in other countries?

You look at France, Brazil and Argentina and it seems like they have a substantial amount of them playing outside of their own national league and are usually transferred for moderate prices as well, it's something I still would like england players encouraged to do a lot more of but southgate has royally messed that up with his clear dismissal of English players performing outside of premier league.

There are too many English players happy to settle for playing in the championship in England instead of moving to a league like France, Germany, Italy or Holland.
 

kouroux

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The real reason let’s be fair. It’s because in France we are ALL racist. We hate each other.

White hate black and Arab
Arab hate black and white
Black hate white and arab
everyone hate Chinese
And Indian we don’t care.

Imagine racist children playing together. who want to be the sub of that white/black/Arab mf.

Racism make competitiveness.
Wtf is this :wenger: ?
 

Canagel

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They still play on the streets. It's easily the biggest factor.

Other footballing countries dont produce world class players to the same degree because the culture is not the same. I think it was Mahrez that said it. When you play on the streets you are forced to play against people that are bigger than you and things such as skill and technical ability will take on a greater importance.
 

Suv666

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The real reason let’s be fair. It’s because in France we are ALL racist. We hate each other.

White hate black and Arab
Arab hate black and white
Black hate white and arab
everyone hate Chinese
And Indian we don’t care.

Imagine racist children playing together. who want to be the sub of that white/black/Arab mf.

Racism make competitiveness.
Are you from 4chan?
 

git_united

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How would one characterize the French style of football? Is it more conducive to cup competitions? Is it different during the last 24 years (notwithstanding the slumps in between?)
 

The Corinthian

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The real reason let’s be fair. It’s because in France we are ALL racist. We hate each other.

White hate black and Arab
Arab hate black and white
Black hate white and arab
everyone hate Chinese
And Indian we don’t care.

Imagine racist children playing together. who want to be the sub of that white/black/Arab mf.

Racism make competitiveness.
:lol:
 

devilish

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The French know their football. Take redcafe as an example. Most French posters know their stuff and the likes of @JPRouve and @kouroux are among the best posters in here