Why is our passing so garbage?

[Dominos]

I thought it seemed obvious that we were content to let their centre backs have it and not get drawn in by the la pausa.

Brighton want you to come on to them, the easiest counter is to not engage their back line in a full on manner.

We were pressing them really high in the first half, but they were playing round it. Eriksen in particularly was finding himself pressing weirdly high.

Whilst we're certainly not a team who tries to have as much possession as possible at all costs, I can't buy this idea that our ball retention is this level by design. If you offered ETH a chance for the team to make 50% less unforced errors in possession, and as a by-product we end up having more possession in games, he'd snap your hand off. No one goes into games hoping we inexplicably lose the ball a lot so we can hit teams on the counter when they lose it.

Even if you're relying on quick transitions in attack when you do win the ball back, you can pass the ball well on those transitions. We don't, which is why we couldn't score a goal and barely looked like scoring across the last 2 games.

 

[Trim90]

Eriks not a magician.

He’s not going to be able to make the likes of De Gea, AWB, Mct, Fred, Weghorst etc great technical passers. They just don’t have the ability.

Martinez & Eriksen are a step in the right direction. We need more in the summer.

I do agree, however we even lack the basic passing skill. So many of our passes are just a slight behind our player or straight to our player. While if you look at City or Arsenal, they almost always try to pass slightly in front of the player. This way the player can receive the ball and keep moving all in one motion.

So many times that we are building towards the final 3rd but then kill our own momentum by slowing the game down because of our passes.
Just try to pay attention when we start to pass and you'll notice so many times that even our basic passes are below top tier and this goes for almost all of our players and it happened through so many managers ( Ole, Mou, Ragnick )

We are also a team that stands still a lot. This way the defense can always reorganise and defend, so passing becomes more difficult.

 

[GwilDor]

We were pressing them really high in the first half, but they were playing round it. Eriksen in particularly was finding himself pressing weirdly high.

Whilst we're certainly not a team who tries to have as much possession as possible at all costs, I can't buy this idea that our ball retention is this level by design. If you offered ETH a chance for the team to make 50% less unforced errors in possession, and as a by-product we end up having more possession in games, he'd snap your hand off. No one goes into games hoping we inexplicably lose the ball a lot so we can hit teams on the counter when they lose it.

Even if you're relying on quick transitions in attack when you do win the ball back, you can pass the ball well on those transitions. We don't, which is why we couldn't score a goal and barely looked like scoring across the last 2 games.

Our high press against Brighton imo failed because the defense failed to compress the space between midfield/defense. I lost count of how many times they found a free player with acres of space in front of our defense when we were pressing high. If you’re gonna press Brighton, City or similar style teams high you have to do it 100% correctly, or you’re gonna concede big chances.

Back on thread;
I actually think our passing has improved under EtH. I used to be so unbelievably annoyed at how slow our passes were, and still they even managed to be behind the player, or even worse, misplaced.
I’d love for Opta or someone to do stats on avg. passing speed of teams, and preferably also players, split into short, medium and long range passes. Ours should have increased, especially in short and medium range, and also especially among the back 4.
Now, as far as i can see, we increased the speed, without reducing the precision(which had a bad starting point). If we can keep improving by improving precision without sacrificing speed we’d see significant improvement. I’m hopeful we’ll see improvements over the next years, both due to change of personell and due to new signings.

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

Our high press against Brighton imo failed because the defense failed to compress the space between midfield/defense. I lost count of how many times they found a free player with acres of space in front of our defense when we were pressing high. If you’re gonna press Brighton, City or similar style teams high you have to do it 100% correctly, or you’re gonna concede big chances.

Back on thread;
I actually think our passing has improved under EtH. I used to be so unbelievably annoyed at how slow our passes were, and still they even managed to be behind the player, or even worse, misplaced.
I’d love for Opta or someone to do stats on avg. passing speed of teams, and preferably also players, split into short, medium and long range passes. Ours should have increased, especially in short and medium range, and also especially among the back 4.
Now, as far as i can see, we increased the speed, without reducing the precision(which had a bad starting point). If we can keep improving by improving precision without sacrificing speed we’d see significant improvement. I’m hopeful we’ll see improvements over the next years, both due to change of personell and due to new signings.

Agree with this. Lindelof was great yesterday but he's not a very proactive CB compared to Varane or Licha. Shaw was a bit more aggressive but even then he's not going to read the game as quickly in a new position. But like you said it meant that Brighton could receive and turn against our backline where normally they wouldn't be able to.

 

[TheRedHearted]

It’s nerves, you under hit a pass or put it wide when your hips aren’t set and you’re nervous.

look at what the noise of anfield did to us, same at Sevilla. We need some natural born winners in this side, mentality like Martinez and Casemiro although he’s been stifled.
I imagine it’s a big summer window, 4 players incoming.

 

[croadyman]

It’s nerves, you under hit a pass or put it wide when your hips aren’t set and you’re nervous.

look at what the noise of anfield did to us, same at Sevilla. We need some natural born winners in this side, mentality like Martinez and Casemiro although he’s been stifled.
I imagine it’s a big summer window, 4 players incoming.

Yeah we need more that are prepared to stick their chests out in hostile atmospheres

 

[Marwood]

It’s nerves, you under hit a pass or put it wide when your hips aren’t set and you’re nervous.

look at what the noise of anfield did to us, same at Sevilla. We need some natural born winners in this side, mentality like Martinez and Casemiro although he’s been stifled.
I imagine it’s a big summer window, 4 players incoming.

Agree but what helps with nerves is that solid base of technique. That's what allows you to rise to it.

We've all been there in nervous situations. When you also know deep down you haven't got the ability for that situation its ten times worse.

 

[TheRedHearted]

Yeah we need more that are prepared to stick their chests out in hostile atmospheres

Yeah we need slightly more aggression on the ball and direct play. Players need to move together on that.

Agree but what helps with nerves is that solid base of technique. That's what allows you to rise to it.

We've all been there in nervous situations. When you also know deep down you haven't got the ability for that situation its ten times worse.

Experience helps yet, also preparation is huge to eliminate nerves. That’s the managers job, make them feel secure in themselves and the system that they can do it.

 

[Harry190]

Some players don't make runs into spaces to drag out people who are marking them thus providing more options to their team mates. Martial and Sancho are guilty of this. They mostly want ball to feet.

 

[HarryIwillbebackMcQuire]

Yeah we need more that are prepared to stick their chests out in hostile atmospheres

AWB, Martinez, Casa, Shaw - these guys can fight for us but I think they're alone..
Bruno needs more reliable quality around him

 

[HarryIwillbebackMcQuire]

Some players don't make runs into spaces to drag out people who are marking them thus providing more options to their team mates. Martial and Sancho are guilty of this. They mostly want ball to feet.

Its so difficult to watch the noisy neighbours and think why don't we do that..
We really need to strengthen our squad (not weaken)
I'd buy Vardy, and Ivan Toney - and 2 fully fit centre backs who can sprint to grow into the position.

 

[HarryIwillbebackMcQuire]

It’s nerves, you under hit a pass or put it wide when your hips aren’t set and you’re nervous.

look at what the noise of anfield did to us, same at Sevilla. We need some natural born winners in this side, mentality like Martinez and Casemiro although he’s been stifled.
I imagine it’s a big summer window, 4 players incoming.

Vardy, Ivan toney, and 2 centre backs who can sprint (like Rio and vidic used to)

 

[TheRedHearted]

Vardy, Ivan toney, and 2 centre backs who can sprint (like Rio and vidic used to)

Definitely a big signing plus a smaller one, but idk about Vardy.

 

[Kinky Melinky]

Our passing inability has been one of our biggest weaknesses for quite some time now. Highly frustrating to watch.

 

[kouroux]

Some players don't make runs into spaces to drag out people who are marking them thus providing more options to their team mates. Martial and Sancho are guilty of this. They mostly want ball to feet.

Absolutely spot on and you can see its effect when some good balls are whipped in inside, too often our players are far from it.
If everyone plays the same way, it's problematic

 

[Witchking]

All teams except united have this ability to go score 4,5,6,7 goals. This is also because we do not control games and have a measly 30% possession against the big teams and 50-60% percent of possession against others where we simply waste time.


Gets frustrating when we play well and not make it count. We could absolutely do it but this season has been such a disappointment goals scoring wise.



No games have been comfortable where we about 4-5 and sat around passing the ball. Instead we do that after we score 1 goal and let the opposition get back into the game.

 

[Dve]

Our players (collectively) just aren’t good passers. Nobody in that team is a high volume or a high accuracy passer. Have an FBRef search of our 5 central midfielders (Bruno; Eriksen; Casemiro; Fred; McTominay) and I doubt any one of them is higher than the 50th percentile or so in the PL this season for accurate passes. It’s a huge issue.

We are too engrossed in playing transition based football, and that’s mostly because our players only really excel in that aspect of the game.

Yes, that's it. For all the qualities of players like Fernandes, Casemiro and Rashford, the simple pass too often looks a struggle. In one game, when Casemiro still received a lot of praise, his pass accuracy first half was 58% (I remember I checked on whoscored), which is kind of unheard of from a CM.

 

[Greck]

The most Spur-sy United team ever. Only after the pressure is off do they perform just good enough to garner moral consolations to save their place. Against lower table teams this lot should be good enough to at least hold possession under pressure. ETH needs to be ruthless this summer.

 

[El Jefe]

We questioned what our coaches under Ole were doing and now we definitely need to do the same with the current staff.

The passing today was embarrassing, in all phases of play but midfield especially.

Brighton players who casual fans can barely name anyone in their defence were passing out from the back with intense pressure.

It's not good enough at all. Very poor passing team and it continuously gets exposed against the better teams.

 

[Red Devil 26]

None of our midfielders are capable of retaining the ball under pressure. Heck, even with yards of space, the trio tonight are capable of coughing up possession attempting basic, square passes. Midfield needs a huge reset.

 

[Greck]

We questioned what our coaches under Ole were doing and now we definitely need to do the same with the current staff.

The passing today was embarrassing, in all phases of play but midfield especially.

Brighton players who casual fans can barely name anyone in their defence were passing out from the back with intense pressure.

It's not good enough at all. Very poor passing team and it continuously gets exposed against the better teams.

Ole is part of the problem for not signing players with ball retention attributes. Only direct merchants, and we can't even replace them because some of them make up the more talented parts of the squad. We now have to play to their strengths or risk every other result. ETH is improving us but it's glaring some of them have a ceiling on how much can actually be improved.

 

[432JuanMata]

Because we don’t have a ball playing 8 bar Eriksen. Case is a DM and Bruno a 10 but we need a top CM on the ball not Fred’s and Mctominays.

Also our strength in depth is poor and the drop over from our best 11 is huge

 

[NZT-One]

Lets not overestimate one game. Pretty sure that ETH focussed on builtup and organisation first, progression and chance creation hopefully will go up a level during the summer. We did relatively well in two games against a tough team to play against and mostly kept them in check. We are missing a few players as well. Understand the notion but probably not the right time to analyse details just now.

 

[Red Devil 26]

Ole is part of the problem for not signing players with ball retention attributes. Only direct merchants, and we can't even replace them because some of them make up the more talented parts of the squad

This is spot on for me. Bruno is our most creative footballer, but only truly excels in the transition. Rashford is our most potent attacking force, but again, tends to be more effective when the game is stretched. Neither are good at retaining the ball in tight spaces and a slower build up, where we have more control of the game, likely won't suit them. That, coupled with how poor our deeper midfielders are with the ball, make it hard to control games.

 

[flappyjay]

None of our midfielders are capable of retaining the ball under pressure. Heck, even with yards of space, the trio tonight are capable of coughing up possession attempting basic, square passes. Midfield needs a huge reset.

Another concern is the love for a Hollywood pass even when we had been losing possession a bunch of times.

 

[Dominos]

People will talk about the Shaw mistake, the subs, "mentality".

All that is irrelevant to me when the whole team cannot retain possession of a football for more than 2 seconds. The touch, passing, decision making, ball retention is absolutely horrendous all over the pitch. We're hanging on for dear life at the end of every game because we're too shit to keep the ball.

 

[Ayush_reddevil]

One of the reasons is that we play football at 2x speed for some reason. The best teams are able to slow the game down and control the ball but we are just constantly trying ridiculous passes with low probability to succeed

 

[AndySmith1990]

2008 was the last season where we played like a truly elite football team, including our passing ability. It's been downhill ever since

 

[dcrompton]

I think our recruitment should look at buying better footballers

 

[ShinjiNinja26]

Pisses me right off the majority of teams we come up against are knocking it around a lot slicker than we are. Yes we need to make signings but half the time it’s sides with lesser players that we’re facing and they look like peak Barcelona in comparison to us. We struggle to do the basics right.

 

[Glorio]

Sometimes the team get into this headspace where they just see themselves as as a counter attacking team and forget to take a breath and play. They start rushing passes trying to catch teams out with the first pass at every opportunity, and end up turning over possession with alarming regularity.

We can't play out from the back because DDG and both full backs aren't those kinds of players, and when we play long, our forwards don't seem to be bursting a gut to pick up second balls

 

[Glorio]

I think our recruitment should look at buying better footballers

Agreed, man to man, Brighton are miles better than us on the ball - that's a fact, a sobering one, but a fact all the same

 

[PoTMS]

Agreed, man to man, Brighton are miles better than us on the ball - that's a fact, a sobering one, but a fact all the same

Not according to @Manncunian. Today was pretty clear to see for anyone with a working set of eyeballs which team is better technically. Our best player on the ball is our left back/converted centre back.

 

[El Jefe]

Three key problems in each phase of the game

1. DDG is awful with his feet, AWB is a weakness as is Casemiro. Just look at how important Rodri is for City in playing out from the back. Casemiro is careless in possesion. That's three players who could potentially ruin the first phase.

2. You will struggle to find a set of midfielders at top clubs that are less press resistant than our bunch. You can force all of them into mistakes when pressed. Enciso and Mac Allister looked in a different world to our players with their comfort on the ball.

3. The attack is built to get the best out of Bruno and Rashford, players who are best in counters and with open space.

 

[Cutch]

Hard to fathom how Jason Steele, Lewis Dunk and Adam Webster can be so much calmer and accomplished at playing out from the back than our backline

 

[Idxomer]

Hard to fathom how Jason Steele, Lewis Dunk and Adam Webster can be so much calmer and accomplished at playing out from the back than our backline

The problem wasn't with our centre-backs. It's De Gea, Casemiro, Fred and the two fullbacks.

 

[Baneofthegame]

Three key problems in each phase of the game

1. DDG is awful with his feet, AWB is a weakness as is Casemiro. Just look at how important Rodri is for City in playing out from the back. Casemiro is careless in possesion. That's three players who could potentially ruin the first phase.

2. You will struggle to find a set of midfielders at top clubs that are less press resistant than our bunch. You can force all of them into mistakes when pressed. Enciso and Mac Allister looked in a different world to our players with their comfort on the ball.

3. The attack is built to get the best out of Bruno and Rashford, players who are best in counters and with open space.

Basically this for me, our best players who can actually retain the ball in our side are Shaw/Martial (when he can be bothered).

 

[AndySmith1990]

Basically this for me, our best players who can actually retain the ball in our side are Shaw/Martial (when he can be bothered).

So basically we have one player able to retain possession. I can see how that'd be a problem in a team sport

 

[Cutch]

The problem wasn't with our centre-backs. It's De Gea, Casemiro, Fred and the two fullbacks.

Yeah can't fault Lindelof and Shaw to be fair though the former can be a bit sideways too often. More an issue when Maguire is in the team.

 

[Baneofthegame]

So basically we have one player able to retain possession. I can see how that'd be a problem in a team sport

Well it's just my opinion, but that combined with our basically non existent off the ball movement unless it's a counter just means we are so easy to play against when we run out of steam which is often in the second half.

Even Dunk played a simple pass then immediately moved to receive the one two to break the press, we just play poor passes either behind players or slow and obvious then go back to Dave who either shits himself and boots it or we are hoping he doesn't pass it to an opponent.

Which basically keeps us penned in and intensifies our problems.