What an absolutely bizarre comparison for Modric, it’s ridiculous because you are making lazy comparison.You deemed Ndidi not being an exceptional ball-winner and that Kante and Casemiro are better because:
I mean what has those qualities listed above got to do with ball-winning as a standalone quality? Its just like saying Modric is a good passer because he can tackle well. Ridiculous argument and out of line.
Anyway on current level, Ndidi is easily as good as Casemiro for me.
What do you mean by steal?That's a good point. In fact with Shaw, AWB and McTominay, I'd say we have more than enough physicality and dogged tackling ability in the defense and midfield. Hence our deepest midfielder needs to be able to bring the ball out of defence as a Guardiola DM would. Obviously it's hard to find those sorts as they tend do be better /have a harder job than the pure DMs.
Its not a lazy comparison because your arguement is just pure bizzare. You're adding additional qualities to an otherwise pretty straightforward footballing attribute.
What straightforward footballing attribute? What makes Kante & Casemiro are one of the best in what they do is because of those attributes.
Ball-winning in football context is just talking about tackling and interception mate.
Dude why are you refusing to get the point? When you go to school you study several subjects. If you are the best student in math class, you are an exceptional maths student. Even if you are the worst in every other class. Period.
What makes Kante & Casemiro to be exceptional as a ball winning midfield not only because of tackling & interception stats but because those attributes which makes them to be the best in what they do.Ball-winning in football context is just talking about tackling and interception mate.
Adding the word "exceptional" means nothing except to describe how good he is at ball-winning. It just English.
Give it a rest mate.
Funny that as soon as his tackles and interception stats dropped, he was no longer rated at United and went to Everton where he's not particularly rated.
Schneiderlin was a very good player when he was at Southampton. It wasn't just his defensive capabilities but he also had 11 goals and 2 assists in the league in his 3 Premier League seasons at Southampton. He also had high pass completion and a decent passing range. There's a reason why he was playing for France back then. He was a much more rounded player than Ndidi.
Number alone doesn't describe enough whether he's an exceptional or no as an individual. The number itself can be due to his team mate or the team's playing style.Funny that as soon as his tackles and interception stats dropped, he was no longer rated at United and went to Everton where he's not particularly rated.
If he played like he did for Southampton for 3 seasons, he'd still be considered a very good player. He simply isnt playing like he did before where he was starting for France and Kante was not.
I dont disagree that other skills are important, but the idea that Schneiderlin makes lots of tackles and interceptions like he did at Southampton but didnt make it at United and isnt standing out at Everton is incorrect
Ndidi wins so much balls exactly because he covers so much ground (which is also related to stamina) and is aggressive in the tackle. He can make interceptions because he reads the play well too (which is also related to intelligence). If not how is he going to win the ball back for Leicester?
So now you are finally see the relation with the attributes that I mentioned, took you ages.Ndidi wins so much balls exactly because he covers so much ground (which is also related to stamina) and is aggressive in the tackle. He can make interceptions because he reads the play well too (which is also related to intelligence).
You mean to tell me every game he gets lucky and somehow manages to tackle a few lads every game? Give it a break.
The idea of me using Schneiderlin as an example is to say that stats can mislead something in term of judging individual player. I never mention that he didn't make it at United due to his number isn't as good as he was at Southampton.
Not so fast when there is Partey & Gueye. Pretty sure there are some other young players out there with the same potential as Ndidi.
Ball-winning is a Football skill where statistic on tackles won and interceptions can tell the whole story. Because how else are you going to win the ball back? That’s the whole point everyone here is trying to make. It’s such a simple Football term easily quantifiable by statistic.
Thats the point. He didnt do the same things at United as he did at Southampton. Had he have done the same things as he was doing and why we signed him, he'd probably have made it
Had he done the same things or he's just incapable to do the same thing with different players around him & different team. It's 2 different things.
Then why was he being picked by France? They arent copying Southampton. He was a starter while he was in form until he signed for us and didnt win the ball as well.
Definitely lots of other brilliant DMs. I only said he'd come third in a direct comparison against 2 named players. Not a ranking involving others.
Yep. My point...much more eloquently put.
I disagree about telling the whole story. Number of interception & tackles won't tell the whole story because it also can be depend on the team playing style or his team mate. I have used Schneiderlin comparison even the topic of Herrera vs Kante in 2016/2017, it can be misleading in term of judging individual player.
Bakayako was being picked by France.
When he was playing well for Monaco yes. Schneiderlin and Pogba were first choice together
Same goes with Schneiderlin when he was playing well for Southampton yes.
Yes, when they were both playing well making Chelsea and United want to buy them for significant money, Schneiderlin was starting for his country and Bakayako had a bit of involvement. Whats your point?
My point is still the same that number of interception & tackles in stats can mislead something, being picked by France doesn’t mean he’s that special when Bakayoko also got picked.
Yes it can, because well, we are talking about ball winning which is essentially just tackling and intercepting. It’s that clear cut with no intangibles.
Yes that’s for a lazy way to judge ball winning. Let’s use stats of two things, don’t need to watch game to measure the level of impact the players made. Scout should stop watching football to judge players and just use stats only and sign them.
Because ball winning is simply a very specific part of the game? Just like how free kick is. If we want to see how good a free kick taker is, we simply look at his free kick conversion rate. Likewise with ball-winning, we look at tackles and interception. What is so hard to understand about that?
Free kick is one specific thing. Ball winning midfielder is not, it's one of role of midfielder like box to box, deep playmaker, regista and etc. Once again, another lazy comparison that doesn't have similarity of how scout or people judge them. If I'm a scout and I want to find a good free kick tacker, I can use stats only. But if I want to find top ball winning midfielder I will use both stats and watching the game to see it myself whether he will suit my team or no.
he was head of recruitment not chief scout
Dunno if you are arguing just for the sake of arguing, but you are having a mare, man. No one said exceptional ball-winning midfielder, just exceptional ball-winner. An exceptional ball-winner is someone that wins the ball a lot, just like an exceptional goalscorer is someone that scores a lot of goals. Ball-winning isn't some term coined by Jose Mourinho or Johan Cruyff for specific positions, it is basic English. It doesn't matter if the player is as slow as Blanc, provided he wins the ball back at an exceptional rate, then he is an exceptional ball-winner.
You are twisting this mate for the sake of arguing. If it was the case then we should compare the stats with defenders as well because they win the ball a lot. At the end of the day when someone call him a ball winner means his role is to win the ball back which one of the common role in midfield a ball winning midfielder.
I wanted him this summer because we lack a defensive presence in midfield. When United are at its peak, sure it would make more sense to have a more cultured passer to go along with defensive presence, but as of right now, we need a player that provides what he provides. He's a great squad option as we lack that with Matic being slow as ice melting in the freezer.
I think English is not his best language.
