fair point. My take is more about people lower down the food chain who havent had alot of privalege, ask them to stand beside you, not kneel.
Wilfred Zaha to stop taking the knee
- Thread starter Deery
- Start date
You’ve never seen anyone standing for the anthem?
No. Certainly not with hand on heart. I've seen people who were standing anyway and generally appallingly drunk sing along to an anthem at a sport's event. I imagine it happens at the Cenotaph but I've never seen it.
I'm struggling to think, outside of an international sport's event, when I'd even hear any of the strange variety of national anthems I may be subjected to.
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I mean, I've seen sportsmen and women standing for the anthem but that's because they already tend to be standing just before their sport is about to begin?
Otherwise I don't remember the last time I heard the British anthem in any capacity and don't think I'd be expected to stand for it either.
You’d be getting into murky waters now saying white men of lower education aren’t as worthy as black men which is also wrong.
You two guys have obviously never been to a GAA match in Ireland..
Interestingly while kneeling was seen as an outrage by NFL fans, an awful lof of them have no issue drinking, eating and not standing up during the anthem.
I have not.
you are bound to get idiots posting. Just don’t see the point in preemptive strikes.
Im glad you said murky waters, as I dont want my responses to be misunderstood.
I think colin kapernick kneeled in the face of the flag.
BLM, initially was kneeling to the police. (if im not mistaken).
People of all colors then kneeled beside black people in solidarity. beside being important.
filter it down through society, through classes, levels in education and theyll be people asking whos kneeling for who.
Listening to his interviews, he seems well out of his depth.
There are good reasons to take the knee and good reasons to not/to abandon the display whilst still supporting the underlying message. There is power in uniting to show a symbol of support for a common goodness and there is also the possibility that such symbols become absorbed and exploited by the powers that be.
But describing it as 'degrading' is quite poor and he doesn't seem to understand the finer point reasoning of the issue.
He can do what he likes though but you should be called on the silly and ignorant things you say.
There are good reasons to take the knee and good reasons to not/to abandon the display whilst still supporting the underlying message. There is power in uniting to show a symbol of support for a common goodness and there is also the possibility that such symbols become absorbed and exploited by the powers that be.
But describing it as 'degrading' is quite poor and he doesn't seem to understand the finer point reasoning of the issue.
He can do what he likes though but you should be called on the silly and ignorant things you say.
It’s hand on heart, standing, tri colour raised, everyone facing it, the whole works.
Thought England do the same maybe I’m mistaken.
I had no idea!
I'm not English but did live there for quite some time and never saw anything of that nature. Certainly not North of the Border.
Yep!
It’s a tricky one when you try to grasp all understanding about it, part of me thinks Zaha should be showing solidarity with his fellow men and then another part of he can understand why he thinks he’s equal to begin with so see’s it as wrong to do so.
Anyway it’s too.late, I’m too drunk and not educated enough on the subject to carry on this discussion. Night folks,
Just checking in....have any more racists let the curtain slip?
That is a very interesting cultural example. Obviously it does surrender his future because if his would be partner says no then they have no future together.
But also the counter part in the wedding vows "honour and obey" is being dropped. A marker of a balance of power shift?
He can do whatever he wants to put a point across but the overlying factor is that he shouldn't have to do anything at all to be treated with basic human respect.
I mean let's not debate this like it even warrants more than a moment of our time when there's still players getting monkey chants aimed at them in the middle of a game.
I mean let's not debate this like it even warrants more than a moment of our time when there's still players getting monkey chants aimed at them in the middle of a game.
Handstands mate.
Exactly.
You are worse that Hitler
Whilst I have zero issue with him choosing to take a different path with it, and all players should of course be free to do as they feel, I’m not keen on the way he’s chosen to express it.
He’s almost tarnishing those who do want get behind taking a knee, and telling them they’re doing it wrong, which is really the antithesis of the whole message.
Nobody should be forced into either option or made to feel like one is right or wrong. The expression is valid whichever way you fall, and nobody should be judged.
He’s almost tarnishing those who do want get behind taking a knee, and telling them they’re doing it wrong, which is really the antithesis of the whole message.
Nobody should be forced into either option or made to feel like one is right or wrong. The expression is valid whichever way you fall, and nobody should be judged.
About time.
I'm tired of people just going around stealing kneecaps. It's a pretty important joint, you know!!
I'm tired of people just going around stealing kneecaps. It's a pretty important joint, you know!!
If that's how he feels fair enough that's his own business he shouldn't be getting any grief just because he doesn't want to kneel before a game anymore.
Maybe they could change the show of solidarity before games from kneeling to all the players of both teams standing shoulder to shoulder (as opposed to separate teams) in the centre circle similar to a minutes silence or something.
Maybe they could change the show of solidarity before games from kneeling to all the players of both teams standing shoulder to shoulder (as opposed to separate teams) in the centre circle similar to a minutes silence or something.
Maybe not for eating or drinking, but most people do stand. We take our anthems pretty seriously. Or did prior to 2020. You're expected to take hats off too. Being met with a dirty or puzzled look would prolly be the extent of it though.
Obviously he’s free to choose what he wants but in general his reasoning is a bit meh and the way he’s put it forward is kinda douchey, In what way is it degrading? but to be honest in keeping with your second paragraph yeah Zaha has always come across as a bit of a bell end so I’m not that surprised. Some of his post match interviews I’ve watched and just thought “twat”.
The kneeling concept was taken by the NFL player from a veteran Green Beret, who wrote to him initially as he thought sitting during the anthem was disrespectful (from a soldiers perspective)
After meeting with the Green Beret the "course if action" agreed upon was kneeling. Kneeling is a sign of respect and something army folk do in front of a fallen brothers grave as a sign of respect
After meeting with the Green Beret the "course if action" agreed upon was kneeling. Kneeling is a sign of respect and something army folk do in front of a fallen brothers grave as a sign of respect
Tbf it's just a token.
Kneeling, armband, minute of silence, standing arms on shoulder, hands on hearts etc.
As long as it gave some meaning to it.
They play God Save the Queen at international games at most levels. I remember going to an England U20s match and only a smattering of people stood for the anthem to sing it. There was one EDL looking nutter near me with hand on heart belting it out but I think most people were a bit embarrassed (I certainly was) for him as he looked a bit unhinged. The English must be some of the most unpatriotic people about.
Taking the knee is a load of symbolic rubbish anyway. It’s a very human thing to do, but completely pointless in actually tackling racism.
Yes. I was waiting to see if anyone knew the real reason.
I was watching that season of the NFL, and subsequent ones and the message rang loud as Bells.
It’s very interesting hearing the views against it from the American and U.K. sides sound exactly the same: hollow and baseless.
Basically people are more pissed at the action of taking a knee VS tackling why people have the need to take the knee. Y’all just want to stop taking actions that highlight racism in football, but have no input into how to address the issue. You basically don’t care about racism, you just want to watch football. Typical from a white persons perspective when it comes to racism.
People will complain for minutes, write paragraphs of saying taking a knee to highlight racism in sport is bad and just drop a quick “oh yeah racism should stop” then go back to how so-and-so shouldn’t politicise the game of football.
You’re so fecking hollow. Racism isn’t nothing to do with politics you prats
Traffic lights are just symbolic rubbish anyway and that's why all my posts sound like those of a racist man who has been run over by a lorry, repeatedly.
See point in hand:
Now speaking up on racism some how has increased the amount of racism, and we should stop speaking up on racism and just go back to a little racism that’s not constantly on our daily newspapers?
Is that an acceptable level of racism for you? You know is black people don’t want you non-blacks feeling too uncomfortable with racism. So please let us know how much racism is OK.
Now speaking up on racism some how has increased the amount of racism, and we should stop speaking up on racism and just go back to a little racism that’s not constantly on our daily newspapers?
Is that an acceptable level of racism for you? You know is black people don’t want you non-blacks feeling too uncomfortable with racism. So please let us know how much racism is OK.
Preach.
That comment came too late
Wrong. If it raises awareness and kick starts conversations about the topic of racism, be it negative or positive, it's clearly not pointless. We're talking about racism being prevalent in the game and the country, that's a great thing that it's being discussed.
It's been coming. The whole thing is just an empty gesture.
I'm not sure it's prevalent. Maybe on twitter where the most controversial knob heads get pushed to the top due to the algorithms. The vast majority of people aren't racist.
Agree with Zaha on this. Other empty gesture "Kick It Out".
Up to him, I'm glad he spoke out rather than just blindly following the crowd in fear of some sense of possible public 'reprimand'. I totally agree with him, it's a gesture, nothing more, and the wider issues regarding discrimination are not really given the same level of exposure. It's an issue that requires solutions rather than gestures, badges, adverts...