Got evidence to back this up?
How do you know if some recruiter didn't hire a black person because of qualifications or skin color?
Wilfred Zaha to stop taking the knee
- Thread starter Deery
- Start date
How do you know if some recruiter didn't hire a black person because of qualifications or skin color?
Just because racism exists, doesn't mean we should be assuming its everywhere. I don't get your point tbh. What if a racist recruiter doesn't hire a black person - does this mean its prevalent? or is it just that recruiter is a twat?
When you see racism it sticks out like a sore thumb. We shouldn't be going around through our day primed with the question 'is it racist' - that's not healthy. You'll know it when you see/hear it.
A lot of people talking about empty gestures, what would you do instead?
But you're the one making the assumptions here by claiming the vast majority of people aren't racist. How do you know that?
I don't assume anything or make a generalization with regards to this subject. I don't know if there is prevalent racism, nor do I know there isn't. You seem to already know there isn't.
Maybe it has already been happening and is drowned out by symbolism but I'd like there to be a collaborative effort with top academics in the area of social science to identify what exactly the racism is, the changes over time and the way it can be mitigated long term.
Well I've a pretty diverse friend group. The extent of the racism is the odd bigoted comment against foreigners by some of the elders. I'd put it at <1% based off my pointless friend study.
fecking madness.Depends on exactly how you want to define racism to be honest. In the strictest possible terms (a feeling of superiority over other races) I reckon most people worldwide aren't racist and so perhaps it isn't the most appropriate term.
But there are far more subtle forms of discrimination than going around calling people nigger or paki or beating them up. I've already spoken on this board about how my kids are very different shades and the lighter skinned kids definitely get better treatment in their lives. As they progress through life, its sad to think this will likely continue.
We all hold at least some degree of subconscious biases in our lives I think. I think its far more helpful to face that and try to think how we might improve it, rather than telling ourselves its all OK and sticking heads in the sand.
Real action behind the scenes, Coaches, Directors Of Football, Managers. This is nothing new from Zaha, Les Ferdinand (Director Of Football at QPR) said exactly the same thing last year.
The scary thing about this is that it's the subconscious stuff that is the hardest to tackle. I suppose the good thing is it probably is not intentional that some of your kids receive poorer treatment, but that kind of thing is hardest to deal with.
I think part of my jaded opinions on racism is partly because as a non racist person I find that thoughts of racism just naturally pop into my head now whenever I see someone black or meet someone from a different country. It just doesn't feel healthy to think like that, but it doesn't mean it isn't a problem we shouldn't be aware of is what I'm trying to say.
Is it a one or the other situation?
Both can be done? Does anybody have the background to what is actually being done? I don’t really have much faith in the FA.
Anything else? Footballers sitting on their knees for a minute means feck all. Maybe initially it was a show of solidarity but all this time later, I don't see what the relevance is. If you want to do it, do it. If you dont then dont. It's not going to make any difference now. Genuine action is.
You are very confused already by the sounds of it. Maybe do some learning before making stupid posts?
I tend to agree. But everyone has the freedom to an opinion. Zaha is one man, an individual, some small minded people will try to latch onto this as Zaha speaking for all black people. "See, even Zaha doesn't want to do it".
I appreciate he is frustrated that nothing is changing. More racial abuse, more discrimination through social media etc.
But I can't help but wonder, does Zaha think the civil rights movement should've stopped after Rosa Parks didn't get up from her bus seat!? Because we didn't see enough improvement after 6 months or 12 months...
The most positive thing about the bringing in of taking the knee is that it opened up space for a genuine debate around racism in football, giving people confidence to shine a light on how prevalent it sadly is.
Now, I think there is a way you can argue for the phasing out of the taking of the knee if you are still willing to promote openness and acknowledgement of the need for a debate/shining a light on racism - be it on social media, in the stands, or even in the internal running of a club. This is the position I think Zaha is taking
If you want to stop it simply to shut down the debate and turn a blind-eye, then that's simply becoming part of the problem and inadvertently demonstrating the need for such actions to continue.
Now, I think there is a way you can argue for the phasing out of the taking of the knee if you are still willing to promote openness and acknowledgement of the need for a debate/shining a light on racism - be it on social media, in the stands, or even in the internal running of a club. This is the position I think Zaha is taking
If you want to stop it simply to shut down the debate and turn a blind-eye, then that's simply becoming part of the problem and inadvertently demonstrating the need for such actions to continue.
I know it's not quite the same, but since you mentioned the subconcious stuff, I took harvards online implicit bias test on race and I found the questions really weird. It has questions about how warm or cold to do you feel about white or black people on a score from 1-10. With 1 being very cold and 10 being very warm. My problem with this kind of question is that disregards the individual. My feelings towards anyone depends on the individual, their actions, how well I know them, not the their skin colour. Anyway this post wasn't aimed at you, but rather on the nature of these implicit/unconcious bias tests.
https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/selectatest.html
How are people becoming this stupid?Some years ago this question would have been...“wait!...is this true? If yes then what can we do about it?”
In 2021 the question is about if it's appropriate to make a statement of fact. If you don't see a problem with this then I truly don't know anymore.
Before anyone gets pissed by this, I'm as black as we come from Ghana, West Africa and apparently black people can't be racist so...
"Figures on the ethnicity of the suspect are not given on a local level, but national figures show that of the white people killed between 2009/10 and 2017/18, 92 percent were thought to have been killed by another white person and just 2 percent by a black person.
In comparison, of the black people killed during that time, just over half - at 55 per cent - were killed by another black person, and 33 percent by a white person."
"This reveals that white-on-white violent crime is much more prevalent than black-on-black violent crime, despite rarely being talked about in the same way."
https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...figures-destroy-dangerous-myth-black-18437547
Do you regularly dream about burning crosses and white hoods?
Thinks it’s like that for most nations to be fair.
It mostly happens when a sports team or an individual representing their country. I’m struggling to think of country’s whom don’t take it with immense pride - and so they should. No greater honour and achievement representing your country. On the other hand, I have no problem with Kapernik taking the knee against what he feels is a symbol of systemic oppression.
Any excuse to post this gem:
Doesn't seem very subconscious here, that's still a lot of people with an issue in this country.
Random thread to bump perhaps but i recall reading this particular exchange of thoughts.
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I don't know on which social media platforms this racial abuse happens but the easiest solution would be to ban the offenders, but I guess with the whole world watching you can't catch all the racist trolls.