Winston Churchill
- Thread starter Cascarino
- Start date
Fcuking Elite Skills..... take a look at yourself and how you write.
Poor buggers also followed the Government covid19 regulations to the letter, only to be told by Boris that they were shit parents for not manipulating the regulations like Cummings did.
Yeah, it's a tough pill to swallow, If they were a printer, they would be in spool mode.
PS: rest of the post was also excellent.
You lot still arguing about statues?
I guess you'll do anything to delay the inevitable realisation that you've been on Tommy and The Gangs' side the whole time. It's okay to admit you're racist lads, just say it with your chests and work from there. No 12 paragraph post on a football forum is going to make that nagging feeling go away. The debate is over and cognitive dissonance excuse isn't applicable anymore.
I guess you'll do anything to delay the inevitable realisation that you've been on Tommy and The Gangs' side the whole time. It's okay to admit you're racist lads, just say it with your chests and work from there. No 12 paragraph post on a football forum is going to make that nagging feeling go away. The debate is over and cognitive dissonance excuse isn't applicable anymore.
I'm sure your about 12 year's old. You think your opinions are always correct, and your posts are constantly condescending.You lot still arguing about statues?
I guess you'll do anything to delay the inevitable realisation that you've been on Tommy and The Gangs' side the whole time. It's okay to admit you're racist lads, just say it with your chests and work from there. No 12 paragraph post on a football forum is going to make that nagging feeling go away. The debate is over and cognitive dissonance excuse isn't applicable anymore.
I'm sure you've got a thing for Tommy Robbinson you rarely shut up about him.
@sammsky1 is positively saint-like in comparison to that other muppet.
It's a strange mix of incel posting style but married with opinions to match the most embittered of lefties, it's been a joy last couple of days reading his bile. But certainly not one to make friends or influence people.
Because they are, the same way I am. Anyone born and raised in an inherently racist system is racist to some degree, it's impossible not to be when it infects every aspect of our lives. The real question is why are so many of you afraid to admit this?
Anyone who denies that churchill was a racist and that millions died because of his actions is a fecking idiot at best!
This trend of taking down statues is a slippery slope though, at this rate we'd be taking down statues of nearly all the kings throughout different countries. The same logic also applies to alexander the great, genghis khan, timurlane etc. They put entire cities to the sword.
Im an Indian, as far as im concerned churchill was a mass murderer no better than hitler, however i dont give two shits whether his statue stays or is brought down in britain.
This trend of taking down statues is a slippery slope though, at this rate we'd be taking down statues of nearly all the kings throughout different countries. The same logic also applies to alexander the great, genghis khan, timurlane etc. They put entire cities to the sword.
Im an Indian, as far as im concerned churchill was a mass murderer no better than hitler, however i dont give two shits whether his statue stays or is brought down in britain.
So anyone who disagrees with what ever your opinions are is racist? What absolutely idiotic post.
He was definitely racist, and its obviously understandable why you would feel like that.
I don't think there would be many statues left if you look at most historical figures.
Those views were before he came back to India and entered political life. He changed his views later on, and clearly no one died on his account because of racism.
16 year old white English boy, lives in Penrith, mind yet to be polluted by bulldog bollocks propaganda, does some actual reading and research of his own.
And he gets it. And he calls out those who don’t and will make quite a few on here froth and spit bile.
16 years old.
And he gets it. And he calls out those who don’t and will make quite a few on here froth and spit bile.
16 years old.
The grammar and prose is certainly triggering me if nothing else.
Also... the 16 year old son of a posh double-barrel-surnamed antifa activist?? So yeah, definitely not been exposed to any bollocks propaganda in his life.
Hope the poor kid wasn't private schooled, looks like he didnt get value for money.I'm not entirely sure what you want me to do with this.
It’s so badly written that I was wondering if it is a fake post designed to stir up division.The grammar and prose is certainly triggering me if nothing else.
Also... the 16 year old son of a posh double-barrel-surnamed antifa activist?? So yeah, definitely not been exposed to any bollocks propaganda in his life.
Why do we need statues to begin with?
They are iconography that were originally intended for religious worship, you’d think deifying people by erecting statues of them would be seen for the farce it is by the year 2020 (and yes, that includes the Trinity statue and Fergie’s, too).
This is exactly the thought that has been running through my head reading this thread.
If we had some kind of national statue amnesty and pulled ALL of these things down, I doubt that half the people in this country would even notice the difference. It seems that a great many of us don't even know who most of these people are.
I think it'd be a good idea to ask the people of Britain. Get them to vote on it.
I'll tell you why. Because I doubt some people would like to do this by consensus but unless you change people's minds all they'll do is resent why it's being done and then we won't be making any progress at all.
Have the conversation first and they'll understand with education. Ask no questions and do it anyway and you are no further on.
I don't think you know what you are asking for there. You're essentially asking for the erasure of a celebrated form of art and culture. Look through the statues and sculptures in history and some of the world's most important pieces of art are in there, and some of the world's most famous landmarks.
That's quite an assumption. So all us white people are all inherently racist to some degree? No matter what we do, think and say? But i guess if I say I disagree with that i'm probably racist right?
Last edited:
It's the kind of thing people do that can't put together any coherent discussion or content in their posts. The truth is maybe they should look at themselves a bit closer.
Muhammed enslaved people, held slaves and traded slaves. He was a slaver. The middle eastern slave trade was every bit a bad as the european and american one. They cut the balls of their slaves for some reason. Talking about the islamic caliphates here after Muhammed, not Muhammed.There was an incident fairly recently in Wales where some white person told a lady (I believe she was wearing a hijab) to stop speaking foreign muck. She was speaking Welsh.
wtf is up with that Nina person
‘ If the statues go, the Mosques go too - Sign the Petition! http://chng.it/GyJvXSZQ via
@UKChange
Please sign The Petition MOSQUES REMOVED IF OUR STATUES ARE TORN DOWN’
How the feck have they gotten Mosques involved now
Last edited:
Thanks for responding.
I think this is something I’m very conflicted about. If we agree he shouldn’t be celebrated then I think leaving him in public might not be the answer.
But equally hiding them away in a museum would perhaps limit people’s exposure to these atrocities.
I agree it’s a massive opportunity but I worry that an already underfunded and understaffed educational setting will be the ones to be responsible for solving societies problems when actually a lot of introspection needs to be had.
To be fair I think it’s more the kind of thing people do when they are so utterly tired of having the same conversations dressed up ever so slightly differently about things that are so opaquely unjust or indeed racist.
I think it’s just fatigue giving way to more extreme, dismissive and salty chat.
Sadly exhibited so well in about 8 threads over the last week.
I think it’s just fatigue giving way to more extreme, dismissive and salty chat.
Sadly exhibited so well in about 8 threads over the last week.
There is another argument regarding the statues - upon removal, instead of putting them into museums where they are going to need to be upkept which costs a lot of money and they are quite large which means that there will be spacing issues (I think this can be resolved with the removal and repatriation of goods which are not 'ours' but that is another argument) we can put them into museums in a different way.
Since the physical embodiment of the statue can still be glorified in a museum, what we can do instead is create a digital archive of the movement taking place currently and the past history behind the statues - this can be through photos/videos/stories etc. Erasing the statue isn't erasing history - we still have textbooks/online resources which detail the histories behind the people in the statues, but there are ways of changing how we can look at history and display it in the future without glorifying things.
Since the physical embodiment of the statue can still be glorified in a museum, what we can do instead is create a digital archive of the movement taking place currently and the past history behind the statues - this can be through photos/videos/stories etc. Erasing the statue isn't erasing history - we still have textbooks/online resources which detail the histories behind the people in the statues, but there are ways of changing how we can look at history and display it in the future without glorifying things.
You know those Romans were slavers too. So now we have to destroys all mosques and roman, viking and greek antiqituies connected with slave trade as well. It's going to be fun to see how this is going to go down.
From a norwegian newspaper and point of view on this topic regarding Churchill as there has this week been a call to demolish his statue here in Norway, where Churchill is quite popular after all he did for us during ww2 :
Google translate :
Over 3,000 people have signed a petition to remove statues of Ludvig Holberg and Winston Churchill.
STORTINGET, OSLO (Nettavisen): - There is obviously a part that needs a history lesson, Stortinget representative Stefan Heggelund (H) tells Nettavisen.
Since the demonstrations against racism reached Norway, the fight has now become a little wider than before. This prompted Oslo citizen Yasmin Zannachi to make a call to remove the "slave trader statues in Norway".
In the appeal, she describes that the statues of British Prime Minister Winston Churchill and author Ludvig Holberg should be demolished.
Blant annet på Solli plass og Nationaltheatret i Oslo står det statuer av henholdsvis Winston Churchill og Ludvig Holberg, sistnevnte investerte stort i slavehandel. Winston Churchill var en rasist og mente at den hvite rasen var overlegen. Det er uhørt at rasistiske hvite menn som synes det var greit å undertrykke svarte mennesker så til de grader skal ha en plass i våre gater, skriver Zannachi i oppropet.
Extreme sauce
At the time of writing, 3315 people have signed the petition. That is why Right-wing politicians Stefan Heggelund and Peter Frølich put the coffee in their throats.
- If this is the level of debate going forward, we will face tough times. These are just far-flung sauces, says Frølich.
"Arrived Norway as a king"
It was in 1948 that Winston Churchill came to Oslo and spoke for the Norwegian people. According to Aftenposten, Churchill was received "as a king, and a saving angel."
- The statue stands there as a thank you for giving us freedom back, and was erected in connection with the hundreds of thousands of people hearing Churchill speak. There were people who had known the war on the body, he says. He is voiced by Heggelund: - We honor him for helping to free Norway and Europe from the clutches of Nazism. It is absurd to see this call, you almost have to rub your eyes. Of course he will have a statue in the center of Oslo.
- But did Churchill not advocate racist thought?
- That's a pretty absurd argument. He is probably the individual who has done the most to fight racist thought and fascism, on behalf of liberal democracy, says Peter Frølich.
In the first edition of the call, Churchill was also referred to as a slave owner, but slavery was banned in the UK about 100 years before he was born.
Frølich draws a parallel to the 1984 book by George Orwell, which describes a dystopian and authoritarian society. Part of the description is about removing everything from history in society, replacing it with what the state thinks is "correct".
“All archives had been removed or forged, every book rewritten, every image repainted, every statue and building renamed, and all dates changed. The process continues day by day and minute by minute. The story has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present where the party is always right, ”Orwell wrote in the book.
- A society where everything should be wrapped up to the perfect and the correct. It is simply a pretty unattractive society. We must see history for what it is. Not everyone can live up to the 2020 values, says Frølich.
- Absurd
One of the most common charges against Winston Churchill is that during his time as deputy state council for the colonies, he led his actions to mass results in India. Frølich strongly rejects this.
- Even one of the most critical Churchill writers, Arthur Herman, strongly rejected this claim. The reason for hunger in India was that Japan occupied Burma, and the rice supplies did not come as normal. It is true that Churchill acted late, but that he is responsible for any genocide is just absurd, he says.
---
And at the end there was a poll. 4% wanted to demolish the statue. 96% did not.
Google translate :
Over 3,000 people have signed a petition to remove statues of Ludvig Holberg and Winston Churchill.
STORTINGET, OSLO (Nettavisen): - There is obviously a part that needs a history lesson, Stortinget representative Stefan Heggelund (H) tells Nettavisen.
Since the demonstrations against racism reached Norway, the fight has now become a little wider than before. This prompted Oslo citizen Yasmin Zannachi to make a call to remove the "slave trader statues in Norway".
In the appeal, she describes that the statues of British Prime Minister Winston Churchill and author Ludvig Holberg should be demolished.
Blant annet på Solli plass og Nationaltheatret i Oslo står det statuer av henholdsvis Winston Churchill og Ludvig Holberg, sistnevnte investerte stort i slavehandel. Winston Churchill var en rasist og mente at den hvite rasen var overlegen. Det er uhørt at rasistiske hvite menn som synes det var greit å undertrykke svarte mennesker så til de grader skal ha en plass i våre gater, skriver Zannachi i oppropet.
Extreme sauce
At the time of writing, 3315 people have signed the petition. That is why Right-wing politicians Stefan Heggelund and Peter Frølich put the coffee in their throats.
- If this is the level of debate going forward, we will face tough times. These are just far-flung sauces, says Frølich.
"Arrived Norway as a king"
It was in 1948 that Winston Churchill came to Oslo and spoke for the Norwegian people. According to Aftenposten, Churchill was received "as a king, and a saving angel."
- The statue stands there as a thank you for giving us freedom back, and was erected in connection with the hundreds of thousands of people hearing Churchill speak. There were people who had known the war on the body, he says. He is voiced by Heggelund: - We honor him for helping to free Norway and Europe from the clutches of Nazism. It is absurd to see this call, you almost have to rub your eyes. Of course he will have a statue in the center of Oslo.
- But did Churchill not advocate racist thought?
- That's a pretty absurd argument. He is probably the individual who has done the most to fight racist thought and fascism, on behalf of liberal democracy, says Peter Frølich.
In the first edition of the call, Churchill was also referred to as a slave owner, but slavery was banned in the UK about 100 years before he was born.
Frølich draws a parallel to the 1984 book by George Orwell, which describes a dystopian and authoritarian society. Part of the description is about removing everything from history in society, replacing it with what the state thinks is "correct".
“All archives had been removed or forged, every book rewritten, every image repainted, every statue and building renamed, and all dates changed. The process continues day by day and minute by minute. The story has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present where the party is always right, ”Orwell wrote in the book.
- A society where everything should be wrapped up to the perfect and the correct. It is simply a pretty unattractive society. We must see history for what it is. Not everyone can live up to the 2020 values, says Frølich.
- Absurd
One of the most common charges against Winston Churchill is that during his time as deputy state council for the colonies, he led his actions to mass results in India. Frølich strongly rejects this.
- Even one of the most critical Churchill writers, Arthur Herman, strongly rejected this claim. The reason for hunger in India was that Japan occupied Burma, and the rice supplies did not come as normal. It is true that Churchill acted late, but that he is responsible for any genocide is just absurd, he says.
---
And at the end there was a poll. 4% wanted to demolish the statue. 96% did not.
Very interesting post Cardboard Elk. Can you tell me what you feel the statue of Winston Churchill represents in your country?
It's amazing how you're shoehorning your Islamophobia into every thread you can manage recently.
This reads like an interview with the Norwegian equivalent of Nigel Farage, along with a poll posted on the BNP facebook page.
It was a response to a post on the subject of destroying historical artifacts. Being critical of Islam is not Islamophobia any more than being critical of Christinaity makes you a Christianityphobe. It's pretty tiresome that being critical of a religious and political doctrine somehow makes you phobic which implies that your aversion is irrational. Rather than being labelled I would rather be proven wrong which makes for a much more interesting discussion.
Last edited:
Because anyone who tries to pick them up on it is also called a racist and it’s not worth the drama. Better to leave them running around screaming with their hands in the air like little children.
sammsky enjoyed calling me a racist, or loon, or some other choice words and when I asked him to clarify was ignored.
the absolute junk and inflammatory videos he’s allowed to post without even making a comment on is a joke
I actually get the point that Mr Pooni is trying to make, I don't necessarily agree that everyone is racist, but lots of people (not all) who wouldn't call themselves racist at all still have deeply ingrained prejudices due to the society they've grown up in that are very difficult to shake. The older people are the more this tends to be the case (again certainly not saying this is true for everyone)
Lots of people will say and truly believe they're not racist in the slightest, but if they're a manager many are likely to find themselves looking more favourably at a CV from Mr Simons compared to one from Mr Abimbola.
Many will happily have friends and colleagues who are people of colour and not think about it at all, but if their daughter came home and announced she was marrying a person of colour, they might not say anything as they know it's wrong, but many will still feel uncomfortable.
Many people walking home late at night would be more uncomfortable walking past a group of young black men standing on a corner than a group of young white men.
This is, I think, if people are prepared to admit it to themselves, quite common and not just in the UK. I've said in previous threads, the perceptions of black men we are bombarded with in media, films etc are terribly damaging. The answer is to recognise it in yourself (you certainly don't have to admit it on a public football forum!) and work to overcome it.
You also don't need to quite as objectionable and confrontational about it as Mr Pooni.