Wolverhampton Wanderers 18/19...

[LilyWhiteSpur]

They will push on next season and I’m sure they will make another few good signings with Mendes’ help and the financial backing of their owners. I have no doubt there is a lot of brown envelopes changing hands, their rise isn’t as noble as people think. That’s football nowadays though so tbh I’m not really that caring.

 

[Judas]

I think most people know there is nothing noble or organic about their rise, still the amount of venom towards them on here is quite surprising.

 

[Robbie Boy]

The salt from here is understandable. But they've had an outstanding season.

Hopefully they don't regress the way Burnley did this season, next season.

No it's not. It's actually weird as feck, to be completely honest.

 

[Judas]

It just comes across as so randomly angry. I don't get it. Unless it's a lot of Birmingham based posters.

 

[LilyWhiteSpur]

I think most people know there is nothing noble or organic about their rise, still the amount of venom towards them on here is quite surprising.

Like I said I don’t have a problem with it, how else is any *smaller* team supposed to even attempt to try and get a foothold in this league. It’s part of the reason why I respect Watford, Burnley and Bournemouth, some elitists on here ridicule them but they have done unbelievably well to establish themselves.

 

[Acole9]

I can see Wolves challenging for top four next season. They're going to get better.

 

[Pagh Wraith]

They rested their team at Burnley and threw away the PTS to have a stronger team out against United which was closer to their semi final. They deserved what they got today. They should have gone full strength at Burnley instead of their cup final versus us. Look where it got them. Threw 3pts away in league and didn't get to the final anyway. feck Wolves.

They had FIVE days rest and a trip from Wolverhampton to London. I'd say they did everything right and if there was one match to rest players it was clearly Burnley.

 

[Raw]

So where do that extra place go to? Because the old rule was winner of League Cup and the two finalists of FA Cup qualify for Europa League. It would be interesting to see how this Wolves team does in Europe.

5th, FA Cup Winners and League Cup Winners all qualify for the EL (League Cup gets to the qualifiers, 5th and FA Cup gets in the group's). If the cup winners are already in the CL or EL then 6th and 7th are used. Since City won the League Cup then 6th will get in the EL qualifying stage.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

They had FIVE days rest and a trip from Wolverhampton to London. I'd say they did everything right and if there was one match to rest players it was clearly Burnley.

Yeah resting players two games before a semi final rather than the one right before makes perfect sense to me.

Maybe had they done it the other way around they would have been fresher than Watford and reached the final.

 

[RobinLFC]

5th, FA Cup Winners and League Cup Winners all qualify for the EL (League Cup gets to the qualifiers, 5th and FA Cup gets in the group's). If the cup winners are already in the CL or EL then 6th and 7th are used. Since City won the League Cup then 6th will get in the EL qualifying stage.

But 6th is gone for Wolves so if City also win the FA Cup, 6th place gets automatic entry into the EL and 7th plays qualifiers, right?

 

[Normandy]

But 6th is gone for Wolves so if City also win the FA Cup, 6th place gets automatic entry into the EL and 7th plays qualifiers, right?

People still have trouble with this?

5th place is automatic qualification for Europe League.
The other two spots are reserved for domestic cup winners. If the cup winners are already qualified through Europe via the league then 6th and 7th gets them. If one team wins a cup outside the league places, then only 6th does.

It's been that way for over a decade.

 

[Raw]

But 6th is gone for Wolves so if City also win the FA Cup, 6th place gets automatic entry into the EL and 7th plays qualifiers, right?

Yep pretty much.

 

[Judas]

People genuinely being angry that they didn't rest players against us? Hilariously small time from fecking Man Utd fans, it's bonkers to witness.

 

[Pagh Wraith]

Yeah resting players two games before a semi final rather than the one right before makes perfect sense to me.

Maybe had they done it the other way around they would have been fresher than Watford and reached the final.

There is no difference between five or seven days rest with almost no travel involved. We are not talking about a midweek fixture in Europe with three days in between here. Plus Man United was just as big a game for them as the semi final. I would have done the same and I'm sure they would do the same again. If we want to talk about questionable decisions, we can start with Nuno's subs yesterday. Also they are chasing 7th place in the league if you need another reason why resting players vs United didn't make sense.

 

[WolfInSharp'sClothing]

So where do that extra place go to? Because the old rule was winner of League Cup and the two finalists of FA Cup qualify for Europa League. It would be interesting to see how this Wolves team does in Europe.

League now takes priority, so no spot for FA Cup runner up. I think they changed it after Hull qualified as cup runners up in the 13-14 season, despite finishing 16th in the league.

As we know, top 4 for CL spots, 5th spot for Europa, plus Europa places for 2 cup winners.

City have already won the League Cup and will finish top 4, so the League Cup Europa place passes to 6th in the league.

If they win the FA Cup too, that Europa place passes to 7th in the league.

If Watford win it, they will take the Europa place and European qualification will only go as far down as 6th in the league.

It's actually much better to qualify as Cup Winners rather than as 7th in the league, as you go straight into the 1st round proper as Cup Winners, as opposed to starting your campaign in July as 7th place bonus entries!

 

[RobinLFC]

People still have trouble with this?

5th place is automatic qualification for Europe League.
The other two spots are reserved for domestic cup winners. If the cup winners are already qualified through Europe via the league then 6th and 7th gets them. If one team wins a cup outside the league places, then only 6th does.

It's been that way for over a decade.

Take it easy mate. Math has been the same for over a century, doesn't mean you understand it either.

 

[RedCurry]

They're not even close to top 4. Just because their style worked vs big teams doesn't mean they're quality everywhere. Where was this quality against the bottom 6 teams?

"Just because" - I think you're giving far lesser credit than they deserve. It's much easier to improve versus the lower table teams than against the top ones. Basically their fundamentals are all there and they need to add some physicality in that side. They are also a young bunch and are only going to grow and get stronger.

 

[SportingCP96]

"Just because" - I think you're giving far lesser credit than they deserve. It's much easier to improve versus the lower table teams than against the top ones. Basically their fundamentals are all there and they need to add some physicality in that side. They are also a young bunch and are only going to grow and get stronger.

They won’t crack the top 4 nor will they get close to it.... you can’t just pretend the other 6 and fairly superior teams aren’t their. They did good against the top 6 this year? Great do you think that will happen every year? Hell no. They will fight for European places (sometimes) 6 through 10 and that’s if they don’t eventually self implode because you can’t go 100M in debt every season.

 

[Pagh Wraith]

I wouldn't give that "great against the top 6, bad vs bottom of the table" theory too much weight anyway. Just because Sky loves these sort of stats doesn't mean that the sample size is in any way meaningful. I'm sure if you analyse the underlying numbers, you will find that most of it can be explained by variance.

Just looked it up:

vs top 6:
xG: 12.25 - 14.98 (per game: 1.23 - 1.5)
shots: 87 - 156 (8.7 - 15.6)
on target: 36 - 55 (3.6 - 5.5)

vs rest of the league:
xG: 33.24 - 21.2 (1.51 - 0.96)
shots: 282 - 220 (12.8 - 10)
on target: 94 - 73 (4.27 - 3.32)

So yeah, nothing too out of the ordinary there. What I do notice looking at the numbers is that their chances are of much higher quality on average than their opponents'. Against top 6 and the rest of the league alike. And if you factor in all the low-percentage shots Neves takes, the rest of them must be sublime!

Think they are the seventh best team in the league but without reinforcements getting into the top 6 will be very difficult.

 

[Cloud7]

I think most people know there is nothing noble or organic about their rise, still the amount of venom towards them on here is quite surprising.

I don’t get it either. I quite like them. They’ve been the best new addition to the league in years. I hope they continue to push on.

 

[RedCurry]

They won’t crack the top 4 nor will they get close to it.... you can’t just pretend the other 6 and fairly superior teams aren’t their. They did good against the top 6 this year? Great do you think that will happen every year? Hell no. They will fight for European places (sometimes) 6 through 10 and that’s if they don’t eventually self implode because you can’t go 100M in debt every season.

You've pointed out the biggest danger I also can foresee with them. They might lose all the motivation after this season. But if we assume that the motivation remains the same, they have shown more cohesive team than a couple of top six sides, including ourselves. Will they make top four? Neither of us can predict the future of course. But I do think their problems are easier to solve than some of the "big" sides.

 

[Sarni]

You've pointed out the biggest danger I also can foresee with them. They might lose all the motivation after this season. But if we assume that the motivation remains the same, they have shown more cohesive team than a couple of top six sides, including ourselves. Will they make top four? Neither of us can predict the future of course. But I do think their problems are easier to solve than some of the "big" sides.

They aren’t close to top 4, don’t have the resources to catch up. The only way they will come close to CL spots is if they come across a season where all top sides struggle like 2015-16. They will not become a 75-80 point a season team themselves.

 

[SportingCP96]

They aren’t close to top 4, don’t have the resources to catch up. The only way they will come close to CL spots is if they come across a season where all top sides struggle like 2015-16. They will not become a 75-80 point a season team themselves.

On top of that the danger is unless the owners are committed to losing millions every season then this will eventually end. A small club like them need exposure more televised games trophies all of these to get their brand out. They need champions league football to sustain it or very deep runs in Europa league football the problem with that is if you don’t have the squad for those deep runs your league form suffers and you go in a bad cycle. There is no way they can sustain going out and buying hard working Average players like Jimenez who though he has done well is not a 40M player and then other expensive assets without getting an influx of cash coming in.

Eventually if what I am saying happens the owners will pull out to avoid more losses and then the club is left with substantial debt. Boom game over.


It worked with City because they have a big market to work with in Manchester and a fantastic stadium. In Paris it worked because ...it’s Paris and also passionate fans and a world class stadium and facilities.

It’s not as easy as “pump money into the club and you get success”

Whatever wolves invest in their club the other 6 clubs can invest double that and have a more worldwide audience.

 

[RedCurry]

They aren’t close to top 4, don’t have the resources to catch up. The only way they will come close to CL spots is if they come across a season where all top sides struggle like 2015-16. They will not become a 75-80 point a season team themselves.

Their entire squad has three players in their 30's. Two of them are goalkeepers in early 30's. Moutinho is the only outfield player in that list.

You don't think a side that is already playing some good football with many of the players just starting to hit their prime can step up a level? All opinions of course.

 

[Sarni]

Their entire squad has three players in their 30's. Two of them are goalkeepers in early 30's. Moutinho is the only outfield player in that list.

You don't think a side that is already playing some good football with many of the players just starting to hit their prime can step up a level? All opinions of course.

Closing up a gap of 15-20 points would take way more than stepping up a level by a few young players.

And that’s not even considering how much more wealthy all clubs above them are.

 

[Bonjers]

On top of that the danger is unless the owners are committed to losing millions every season then this will eventually end. A small club like them need exposure more televised games trophies all of these to get their brand out. They need champions league football to sustain it or very deep runs in Europa league football the problem with that is if you don’t have the squad for those deep runs your league form suffers and you go in a bad cycle. There is no way they can sustain going out and buying hard working Average players like Jimenez who though he has done well is not a 40M player and then other expensive assets without getting an influx of cash coming in.

Eventually if what I am saying happens the owners will pull out to avoid more losses and then the club is left with substantial debt. Boom game over.


It worked with City because they have a big market to work with in Manchester and a fantastic stadium. In Paris it worked because ...it’s Paris and also passionate fans and a world class stadium and facilities.

It’s not as easy as “pump money into the club and you get success”

Whatever wolves invest in their club the other 6 clubs can invest double that and have a more worldwide audience.

So it's fine for Everton to spend £50m on Richarlison and Sigurdsson, or West Ham chucking £45m at Felipe Anderson, but for us it's inevitable doom after spending £32m on Raul? I'd very much doubt we'll make a loss with the ridiculous TV money in this league. If we do, it'll be minor in the grand scheme.

We're not a rich boys play thing. We're a strategic investment from Fosun who have their eyes on huge infrastructure and development projects in the area. We were an optimal choice for them as we were not burdened with colossal debt from gross mismanagement off the pitch (on the pitch was a different matter...) and thus we're essentially a blank canvas for them to work from, with assets like state of the art training facilities/academy already in place.

Staying in this league pays for itself nowadays, the money is quite simply ludicrous.

 

[SportingCP96]

So it's fine for Everton to spend £50m on Richarlison and Sigurdsson, or West Ham chucking £45m at Felipe Anderson, but for us it's inevitable doom after spending £32m on Raul? I'd very much doubt we'll make a loss with the ridiculous TV money in this league. If we do, it'll be minor in the grand scheme.

We're not a rich boys play thing. We're a strategic investment from Fosun who have their eyes on huge infrastructure and development projects in the area. We were an optimal choice for them as we were not burdened with colossal debt from gross mismanagement off the pitch (on the pitch was a different matter...) and thus we're essentially a blank canvas for them to work from, with assets like state of the art training facilities/academy already in place.

Staying in this league pays for itself nowadays, the money is quite simply ludicrous.

I agree with all of that if the plan is too get players for a decent price and just try to stay in the league and eventually crack 6th place on a rare occasion.

The issue is IF wolves overall plan is too pay big money for top talents and attempt to push for something higher then Europe’s league because then you break the bank and don’t reap the “rewards” from it and are that is a recipe for disaster. Also that involves being smarter with money nowadays. Raul has done well for you this season but in no world is he worth 30+ million.

The money in the league is ridiculous I agree but if you want to be a midtable club then ya your doing just fine no harm no foul but if you get into Europe league you HAVE to invest a lot of money to deepen that squad with quality to be able to compete on all fronts because if you don’t ? You’re league position can be at risk and god forbid because of that you find yourself on a relegation fight you don’t want to be in without enough and adequate quality spread across the squad and bench you risk putting yourself in a bad situation on the field and off of it.

As was almost the case with Monaco this season and that’s in the French league...

All hypotheticals but still.

 

[Bonjers]

I agree with all of that if the plan is too get players for a decent price and just try to stay in the league and eventually crack 6th place on a rare occasion.

The issue is IF wolves overall plan is too pay big money for top talents and attempt to push for something higher then Europe’s league because then you break the bank and don’t reap the “rewards” from it and are that is a recipe for disaster. Also that involves being smarter with money nowadays. Raul has done well for you this season but in no world is he worth 30+ million.

The money in the league is ridiculous I agree but if you want to be a midtable club then ya your doing just fine no harm no foul but if you get into Europe league you HAVE to invest a lot of money to deepen that squad with quality to be able to compete on all fronts because if you don’t ? You’re league position can be at risk and god forbid because of that you find yourself on a relegation fight you don’t want to be in without enough and adequate quality spread across the squad and bench you risk putting yourself in a bad situation on the field and off of it.

As was almost the case with Monaco this season and that’s in the French league...

All hypotheticals but still.

Personally, I expect us to take a gradual approach towards progression to that sort of level, if its possible at all. I don't forsee us going out and spending obscene money.

The stadium redevelopment will come next and then we'll be in a very good place off the pitch for the foreseeable.

As for Raul, he's been worth every penny. 30m is the new 15m at this level, as mad as that is. He's magic in our system. Sometimes everything just fits and that's the case with him. It's better business than spending the same amount on Eredvisie tat like Brighton have in the last 18 months.

 

[SportingCP96]

Personally, I expect us to take a gradual approach towards progression to that sort of level, if its possible at all. I don't forsee us going out and spending obscene money.

The stadium redevelopment will come next and then we'll be in a very good place off the pitch for the foreseeable.

As for Raul, he's been worth every penny. 30m is the new 15m at this level, as mad as that is. He's magic in our system. Sometimes everything just fits and that's the case with him. It's better business than spending the same amount on Eredvisie tat like Brighton have in the last 18 months.

They took a great approach and their system works so I give them credit for that. They are fun to watch and molienux is rocking nowadays.

 

[Bojan11]

They were garbage vs us, yet people were saying it was a great point. Think Nuno is on the brink.

 

[Robbie Boy]

They were garbage vs us, yet people were saying it was a great point. Think Nuno is on the brink.

Agree with the first bit they were very poor indeed and I was really pissed off we didn't get all 3 points. It was definitely 2 points dropped.

 

[FootballHQ]

They were garbage vs us, yet people were saying it was a great point. Think Nuno is on the brink.

Far too early for that but it's obvious this early they're going to have major issues juggling the various competitions.

Were also defensively sound last season. 8 goals conceded in last two.

 

[AJ10]

Struggling with park the bus then counter with nice passes from the back thing.... sadly we once again missed big chances vs them.


Reckon they'll struggle with Europa.

 

[Bojan11]

Another loss, I know it’s Europa but Nuno is definitely on the brink. They played pretty much their first team.

He might get extra grace for what he’s done in the last two seasons and don’t think the supporters want him gone. But obviously football chairmen tend to be a lot ruthless.

Palace away is going to be tough especially after playing Europa and then Watford who have a new manager. Two big games for Nuno.