Woodward and Fergie wanted Giggs as manager

devilish

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Sentimentalism and revisionism are of little use. Portraying David Moyes as a ‘United-DNA’ move takes a lot of active misremembering and hyperbolics, I would say. It smacks of fancifulness: Ignoring all the rumours that Ferguson had five other names above Moyes on his recommendation-list, that asking the worlds best manager for managerial advice is perhaps best construed as exactly that, rather than some fascination with DNA. The idea of ‘leaving it to Ed Woodward alone’ is perhaps what exactly noone would suggest in hindsight.

It’s also very peculiar to try to angle Moyes as obsessed with United DNA, as he distanced himself fairly clearly from Ferguson, from his advice (sell Rooney), from his staff (botched them all, to the grand critique of many, favoring Lumsden and his own Everyon-DNA-team, only admitting Giggs for a Phelan-like role and later Phil Neville to carry cones). Moyes and the club were heavily criticized at the time for cutting too much with a team that were run-away-champions the previous year. Moyes had exactly 0 % of anything reminiscent of ‘United DNA’. Then Van Gaal, with his Ajax and Barca ‘DNA’, nothing to do with United. Then Mourinho, The Anti United RNA-converter. Players came and went. The only aspect of continuity from the era of Ferguson, where Ryan Giggs standing on the sidelines of the sidelines. He got four games. That’s the extent of this obsession with United way you allude to. It was almost clean break after clean break, until Ole. That came after five years and the disillusion was huge among vast amount of fans at that point - not just the trolls.

It was identified that most clubs who have repeated success over decades actually do have a lot of so called ‘DNA’, that is continuity in staff, in methods, in style, in identity. Real Madrid, Ajax, Bayern München, Liverpool, Juventus, Barca have all demonstrated this for long spells.

The effects of a cultural ‘DNA’ normally don’t show over a couple of years necessarily, but in the longer run. Ralf Rangnik is an expert in this, as he has built three clubs with that as one of his three core themes.
I'd suggest you read Sir Alex first version of his autobiography were he clearly state that he wanted Moyes as he believed that he was very similar to him. Meanwhile Mou's fall out of grace conceded when Carrick and Mckenna replaced his trusted lieutenant Rui Faria which played a key role in Ole's disastrous/trophyless stint and were the first to leave when Rangnick joined.

Some clubs are able to turn players into great managers while others don't. We're one of the latter. 99% of our club's success came thanks to a former Manchester City player and some manager from Scotland. Neither of them had any links to the club whatsoever. I might be wrong on this one but I doubt any of our players had ever won an English title as managers.
 
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alexthelion

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The alternative to that is the mess we're currently experiencing. Its the same mess managers experienced after Sir Matt retired. I've read somewhere that when Paisley became manager he banned Shankly from ever stepping foot to the training ground. SAF is too big of a presence to be kept half in half out. Once he retired then that should have been it.
This.
 
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Did it, though? I know we won the FA Cup, but the football was boring, we went backwards in the league and the signings weren't good.
I Love how the myth the football was boring through out persists. There was nothing boring in the two months leading up to our Fa cup triumph. Our first trophy post Fergie. And missing out on the top in goal difference yet starting to win trophies again 2 years into a 3 year wasnt reason enough to change footballing direction 360 degrees. At least we could have brought in a younger coach with shared footballing values to an lvg.
 

phelans shorts

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I Love how the myth the football was boring through out persists. There was nothing boring in the two months leading up to our Fa cup triumph. Our first trophy post Fergie. And missing out on the top in goal difference yet starting to win trophies again 2 years into a 3 year wasnt reason enough to change footballing direction 360 degrees. At least we could have brought in a younger coach with shared footballing values to an lvg.
I’m sorry myth? Having been at the majority of those games, it absolutely wasn’t a myth. It was horrible to watch to the point that hearing he was sacked after the FA cup final probably got a more positive reaction than the actual win.
 
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I’m sorry myth? Having been at the majority of those games, it absolutely wasn’t a myth. It was horrible to watch to the point that hearing he was sacked after the FA cup final probably got a more positive reaction than the actual win.
Then we have a completely opposed view to what constitutes boring football
 

Moriarty

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Sweet summer child. Woody was just a puppet for the guys above him.

Club is rotten to the core and nothing of note will change until the leeches feck off.
S'right. I hope it isn't so rotten that we have to rip down the entire edifice and build again from the ground up.
 

ronaldinhoisagoat

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This is why the club need to completely cut off from SAF ... its like the previous Owner-CEO having too much influence on the company that is now being run by a Professional-CEO (for example - his Ronaldo should always play comments) ... I think SAF is only kept here so that we can leverage off his friends in the media.

This kind of thinking is very short term as we should be cultivating our own set of media-mouths to set a positive spin on anything United. What happens when SAF is no more? We'd anyways need to do this and the time to start is now as these kind of relationships take time to build.
 

Moriarty

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SAF should have been shown the door the moment he retired. We made the same mistake we did with Busby instead.
I said something along those lines at the time and got hammered for it. If memory serves, Fergie said that he planned to back away from football and travel with his wife. He couldn't stay away. Every United game that was televised would feature a close-up of Fergie and a comment about how he couldn't be enjoying the fare on offer. At least he didn't keep his old office and welcome players in who had gripes about the new boss.

Your comment about Shankly is right. After he resigned - according to Emlyn Hughes - he had second thoughts and would turn up at Liverpool's training ground until he was told he was no longer welcome. Hughes also said that Shankly promised to tell him the real story behind his retirement but he never did.
 

PeteManic

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Fergie has said in an interview that had Giggs not played on so long, he would have been on his staff and taken over from him. Fergusonism at its worst. Giggs would have been a disaster.
 

MancunianAngels

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Giggs, without the personal problems, but with a strong coaching setup around him and a DoF working with him could have been a success.

The issue is until we improve the situation off the pitch, very few managers (if any) could succeed at the club.
 

Green_Red

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Its an absolute disgrace that a forum mod is limiting discussion about the Ryan Giggs trial when the forum was given open rights to comment on the Johnny Depp and Amber Heard trial.
 

TheReligion

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Its an absolute disgrace that a forum mod is limiting discussion about the Ryan Giggs trial when the forum was given open rights to comment on the Johnny Depp and Amber Heard trial.
I agree in some ways but surely bumping this isn’t the best way of raising it? There’s a thread in the mod forum mate
 

Skills

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Its an absolute disgrace that a forum mod is limiting discussion about the Ryan Giggs trial when the forum was given open rights to comment on the Johnny Depp and Amber Heard trial.
Criminal case vs civil law case?
 

Rado_N

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Its an absolute disgrace that a forum mod is limiting discussion about the Ryan Giggs trial when the forum was given open rights to comment on the Johnny Depp and Amber Heard trial.
Are those trials the same? Under the same jurisdiction and covered by the same contempt laws?

Or are you just being stupid?
 

Samid

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And now we have Arnold (essentially a mini Woodward) taking advice from Fergie. Club is just a merry-go-round.
 

Denis79

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This was pretty much known wasn't it? I remember when we bought Martial. Didn't LvG talk about how he was a player for the future and how this was more a signing for Giggs than him?
 

Wednesday at Stoke

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I thought this was quite clear as Van Gaal said it loud and clear during his drunken player awards gala. I've also heard a lot of United journalists suggesting that Ole had a similar remit with Carrick seen as a long term successor.
 

GlasgowCeltic

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I thought this was quite clear as Van Gaal said it loud and clear during his drunken player awards gala. I've also heard a lot of United journalists suggesting that Ole had a similar remit with Carrick seen as a long term successor.
So all roads point to ginger island head as boss, 25 years in the making
 

Green_Red

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Are those trials the same? Under the same jurisdiction and covered by the same contempt laws?

Or are you just being stupid?
but then mod the comments stupid, there isn't a media blackout on the topic in the UK, having a discussion about it isn't illegal. Are you stupid?
 

Rado_N

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but then mod the comments stupid, there isn't a media blackout on the topic in the UK, having a discussion about it isn't illegal. Are you stupid?
I’m not a moderator numpty. The owner of the site recognises that the idiots on here can’t be trusted and mods can’t be expected to be permanently available to tidy up after them.

You spitting your dummy out over it just reinforces the point.
 

mu4c_20le

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I thought this was quite clear as Van Gaal said it loud and clear during his drunken player awards gala. I've also heard a lot of United journalists suggesting that Ole had a similar remit with Carrick seen as a long term successor.
"Give it Giggseh" ?
 

Green_Red

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Insulting another member
I’m not a moderator numpty. The owner of the site recognises that the idiots on here can’t be trusted and mods can’t be expected to be permanently available to tidy up after them.

You spitting your dummy out over it just reinforces the point.
Stop talking bollox would ye, if you don't to discuss it then off you f.uck
 

Rado_N

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Stop talking bollox would ye, if you don't to discuss it then off you f.uck
Ahh bless, even the swear filter seems to be too much for you to handle, you have to use a full-stop so you can look like your swearing “properly”.
 

Frosty

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Its an absolute disgrace that a forum mod is limiting discussion about the Ryan Giggs trial when the forum was given open rights to comment on the Johnny Depp and Amber Heard trial.
English contempt laws are very restrictive - the US has the First Amendment, which is the massive and crucial difference.
 

KeanoMagicHat

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Thank God he didn’t get the job, not even just on ability wise but imagine Greenwood and Giggs news coming out the same season, the club would be an even greater disgrace.
 

Foxbatt

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I said even that time that LVG is getting fecked because Giggs was forced on him and he knew that he cannot manage it the way he wants to because of Giggs and Fergie. Now Fergie has been brought back again. It's the Sir Matt story again. He should never get involved in the Club again.
 

Red the Bear

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I actually really liked it when he was here as the interim, was sure he'll be a great manager for us down the road, shame how it all turned out....
 

Chesterlestreet

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If this is true it shows you why Fergie should not be anywhere near the decision making process at the club
I think it's true (to some degree), yes.

LVG himself pretty much confirmed it.

And - yes - I agree with what you say. Fergie has a horrible record of managerial recommendations.

More importantly, though - it shows that there was no long-term strategy whatsoever in place, or at least not a serious one: Woodward went from this scheme (let LVG "groom" Giggs for a couple of seasons) to jumping at the chance to hire Maureen (a bigger, more shiny name than LVG), abandoning the "grooming" plan just like that (with a feckin' text message to LVG five minutes after he'd won the FA Cup).
 

Loon

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I just finished watching the interview of David Lyon’s (author of Fergie's latest auto-biography). He explained lots of behind the scenes untold stories but most shocking to me was that Giggs was supposed to succeed Van Gaal. This was decided by Woodward and the board and told to Fergie. Van Gaal was told his remit and knew from the start that he would handover to Giggs. Giggs was told he was going to be the next permanent manager too.

I remember hearing Van Gaal in an post match interview saying that Giggs was going to be the next manager. I even remember lots of people discussed it on here as a bizarre thing to say at the time but most writ it off as Van Gaal joking around.

Both interviews are on YouTube if you want to find them.

At the time, did any of you workout or guess this was the plan ? Why do you think we didn’t go through with it ? And do you think we would be in a better or worst position now if we had seen it through with Van Gaal then Giggs?
Even van Gaal frequently said that during his tenure. He'd have been rightly sacked by now even if he'd got the team playing well.
 

Greck

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This isn't news. Even the fans wanted it, we were still drinking the koolaid about united dna. Give it to giggsy wasn't a meme once upon a time.
 

Sky1981

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While the Glazer ownership is the root cause, given they are absent owners who never care if Utd ever win a trophy again, the real architect of our demise is Woodward. His ineptitude is hard to fully appreciate, he could see how other clubs were run but chose to do none of those things. He was on a giant ego trip, good article in the TImes today on all the problems the club faces and that . Woodrward thought he could be a football titan like Florintino Perez at Madrid, not that he was ever the greatest role model but Woodward lacked any expertise nor did he understand that the first basic rule of leadership is to hire the best people to do the key jobs. He should long be remembered as exactly why we are where we are, and why I keep saying the fans need to insist we build a proper football structure. Making Ralf DoF would be the first step.
To be fair he understood that concept and asked SAF for input. The input was Moyes, against his understanding but he thought SAF knows best