I wouldn't be bitching if I were benefiting from it either.
The point is, i'm not. So I'm bitching. They're destroying something people love. Expect some fecking bitching.
Working Mans game has been dead for decades.
- Thread starter SAred
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The point is, i'm not. So I'm bitching. They're destroying something people love. Expect some fecking bitching.
This is amazing. We all watch the games due to these players. Sponsors and companies pay because we watch these players, as long as we watch and enjoy their work the players deserve every cents they are given. The problem in that system is that back in the day, the billionaires that are creating the ESL were patrons and they would help their club pay instead of taking dividends and big salaries. For example to this day someone like Seydoux with Lyon doesn't earn a thing from the club, he is legally obliged to take a small amount of money for his presence to board meetings but that's it, in the mean time he helped finance the stadium and sports complex while previously being the one financing the club, he poured millions into the club.
No, I never said that what I am pointing out that the player's demands are leading clubs to find ways to increase revenue to meet their demands. Pogba wants half a million a week to be loyal oh and in covid so loyal my heart bleeds, where does the club keep getting the money from the loyal fanbase or alternative streams so the Super League has to bigger carrot to turn down. At least look at the benefit Loyal Paul will stay.
You and I can bitch but Gary and Rio maybe they have short memories so their bitching is ironic..
Weird moaning about Pogba, Neville while ignoring the big reason why clubs are joining ESL.
They're struggling to stay afloat due to their own mismanagement and other external impacts. They're not struggling to stay afloat because of Lionel Messi.
Players are entitled to to persue the best contracts they can given this is their actual career and they're what makes the sport what it is. Nobody forces the club to employ them, nobody forces the club to break their wage limits.
Why any football fan would choose to blame Lionel Messi (one of the greatest footballers to play the game and, quite frankly, someone who is absolutely entitled to earn a fortune in this situation) rather than the politicians, investment bankers, empty suits and petro-states who actually run the game, I have no idea.
Directing blame at the players for what occurred there is indicative of jealousy, a lack of understanding of the underlying issues or both. And ironically sees working class players get criticised in the guise of defending the so-called working man's game.
It's not at all. They've given more of their lives to this club than we could ever imagine.
ok ...........
I moaning about the likes of Gary who jumps on his soapbox and uses the word greed, what about the fans when he benefited massive when the Premiership kicked of so please for the likes are Gary saying this is the death of football and these owners are only in it for the money I just find that so ironic when 99 percent of players are you guessed it only in it for the money including bitching Gary.
Embarrassing opinion.
And where paid handsomely for that sacrifice, they would of given up everything for another club to if the pay was better.
Shame Gary Neville didn't play for free so that @SAred was comfortable watching 22 people kick the ball after finishing his 9 to 5 job, sipping his favourite beer.
The sheer amount of ignorant/clueless posters is quite incredible. It's not even a hard topic to understand, I mean Perez basically came out and said money is the most important thing and this ensures the 15 clubs make a feck tonne more of it and yet you still have threads/posts saying "well, football has been dead a long time, why care now", "Gary Nev works for Sky, funny he's complaining", "This fecks UEFA so I'm happy" etc etc.
It's quite incredible. It's like your house about to be burned down and you be like "well, it had a water leak anyway" or "well, I'm happy because the house next door will be full of smoke or just complaining why your neighbor trying to save you is worked up about it when he was in a fist fight himself last week
You're just basically saying everyone who has financially benefited from football do not have the moral ground criticise the ESL.
Would Fergie have stayed with us if we are unable to pay him? What a bizzare and high-minded notion of loyalty.
Would Fergie have stayed with us if we are unable to pay him? What a bizzare and high-minded notion of loyalty.
I think he's talking about how the fans have been hit financially over the decades as a result of what has generally been regarded as changes for the good of the game with TV investment and the creation of the premier league.
Unless you were a football fan growing up in the 60s, 70s and 80s, you're not going to understand how fans have been affected.
It cost a couple of quid to get in to watch a united game.
that's a good one.Players back then were paid well enough, just like how players in 90s were paid well enough. It's all related to how much money clubs started to make.
Beautiful post. Some people are so blinded by their hatred (for valid reasons tbh) of UEFA/FIFA/PL that they cannot even see that this ESL will be much worse.
Whatever your stance about Neville, it doesn't make him any less valid in his criticism of the ESL
Wasn't even going to post in this thread as emotions are running high and both sides have valid points. But the jealousy argument is just the most stupid thing people throw around in these debates it had to be pointed out.
Yeah, shut up Gary Neville. You can't complain about the creation of the ESL because you were paid to play football once upon a time. Don't like the new rename to Manchester Magic? Shut the **** up you hypotcritical T**t. Complaining about moving the club to Dubai and playing exhibition games around Asia throughout most of the year? F*** off, you made money by being a footballer so you can't say anything.
Power of agents, astronomical wages etc. Sanitised family friendly entertainment. Since i got into football in the late 80s the game has changed completely.
some of it for the better of course. It was very tribal back then with violence to match. But a lot of the connection to fans has gone (consumers now)
The problem is if supporting a club is not a tribal attachment but an entertainment choice for younger people then the logical conclusion is the weekly big matches to draw in the casual watchers and the ESL.
Id go back to 80s/90s football in a heartbeat to be honest
some of it for the better of course. It was very tribal back then with violence to match. But a lot of the connection to fans has gone (consumers now)
The problem is if supporting a club is not a tribal attachment but an entertainment choice for younger people then the logical conclusion is the weekly big matches to draw in the casual watchers and the ESL.
Id go back to 80s/90s football in a heartbeat to be honest
Keane nearly left the club for a free because he was uncomfortable with our club wage structure.
Its practically the same everywhere.
It's an insane argument.
If being a hypocrite is a barometer for whether we are allowed to speak out about this garbage league, then we might as well close all these threads down and go about our days.
Really you don't think players' demands have not led to clubs needing to service these demands. Do you honestly think that the players will not benefit from the super league? Unless they do it for the club and fanbase or the loyal player where are the Paul Scholes alias my friend they are all Paul Pogbas. Loyalty get a dog, loyalty to these players is who pays the most so I just think Gary Ironic Neville and Friends are just that Ironic from there Ivory Towers saying that we are in it for the fans the irony
It shows who the idiots in this place are and explains why it's become so unbearable in recent years.
Players shouldn't be loyal, why should they be?
Were you loyal to players when they are/were not good enough? Was the club loyal to players like Depay, Schneiderlin, Falcao, Roy Keane? Without checking your post history, I wouldn't be surprised if you are one of those who just bitch and moan about Pogba everyday. So why should he be loyal to anyone?
We spend around 50% of our revenues on player wages but still want to join ESL, you know why? Because owners wants to make shit loads of money out of this.
When the Premiership cane and changed Football Gary was benefiting from it never a word against and why he benefited no worries how the average worker would pay more for it no worries how the fans had to dig deeper to support it but now Pundit Gary is actually quite Hypicritical has he no longer plays the game and thus benefits nothing.
Like I said, what you say is sensible but it doesn't make Neville wrong in his criticism. We all know the truth, who delivers it matters little to me.
Gary is right to his views I feel it a little Ironic coming from x-players that really cared less about the fans when the average joe coughed up more because the likes of Gary were getting paid massively to play the working mans game it's just the Irony I'm pointing about these players and loyalty to there Clubs and Fan Base please most of them loyalty is to there back pockets.
Then why do the Likes of Gary keep binging this up as if he is a champion to the Loyal Fan and those nasty Glazers are sharks? Don't you see the irony in his comments?
Regarding Messi and Barcelona. Messi deserves his wage, he has been the most influential player in football for a decade, the issue for Barcelona is something that people tend to overlook they have been gluttons, they have stockpiled star players who in the past would have been playing for the likes of Milan, Inter, PSG(Rai, Weah, Leonardo or Valdo come to mind), Lazio or Arsenal in the 90s. They managed to do it by offering crazy wages and yes they are the ones who destroyed the wage market, you just have to look at how much they pay bench/rotational players compared to any other club in the world. In their battle against Real Madrid, they went way beyond their capabilities and did something that wasn't seen before outside of Inter and Milan who were both bankrolled by a media mogul and an oil baron, neither clubs were sound businesses.
No.
My theory is that they are not going to charge a lot of money and instead ensure that a higher percentage of a lower fee goes directly to clubs. If you charge £5 a month for all the Man Utd games, and 100million people sign up, that £500 million a MONTH directly to the club (after maybe £100m goes to the financiers / competition itself). The numbers if you start to go properly into them are absolutely staggering and I secretly wonder if this hasn't in part begun because UEFA were taking too much of a slice.
And if they didn't say anything at all, it's likely you would still complain.
Gary has a name and a platform and he's using it correctly this time.
If people are going to fight this, it needs that.
Jesus, it's like fighting a guy in the suit, but everyone's got distracted by some guy with shiny shoes.
Terrible analogy, but it kinda works.
That's the main reason. Perez acts like he wants to save football but it's simply about Real Madrid being richer. Has there been an explanation as to how how all the other teams would benefit from it ?
Yes but it's as if you're focusing on the least problematic issue of this story. Every person involved has benefited to a various degree from this system and if they all shut it, they would get criticized much more.
Obviously there was an exponential growth in the 90s in direct relation to TV funding, gate receipts, and sponsors. The 90s saw a shift in emphasis from the running of football clubs to businesses.
I don't blame the players for earning the wages they were given according to how their talent was evaluated at the time, but the point in the OP is simply a reminder of the fact that the average working man has been priced out of watching games for decades. He's right there.
Whether this being priced out is regarded as a betrayal, or a necessary evolution for the better in order for english teams to compete with european teams, is subject to debate. However, people do need reminding of how affordable it was for everyone to go watch and support their team.
No, I don't see, He is ManUtd fan, football fan who had success as a football player and is voicing his opinion.
Fans have all the power in football, but we are too institutionalised to see it. Imagine the 300,000 fans who attend these 6 clubs home games every week instead went out to the Rochdales & Tranmeres & Southends and whoever elses instead, and left these 6 stadiums empty. What a wonderful world that would be to live in. It doesn't even seem that hard, but it'll never happen
That would be amazing to see, wish it would happen but like you know it wont.