Yeah has been a bad week for us from start to finish and like you say the club is in dire need of some positivity
Wot, no transfers? It's all happening now!
- Thread starter Sassy Colin
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
I remember we had Fred and Dalot wrapped up relatively quickly, and it only created false optimism that there were more coming. Only made the fan meltdowns worse when there was no one.
The problem being that this window has that written all over it, but without the first couple of deceiving transfers.
We got Scrooge McDuck money. Turns out we also have Scrooge McDuck owners.
The last years have conditioned our fans to believe it's common market practice to only make transfers less than a week before the deadline, hence all the "chill" posts.
In reality, most clubs sort their shit relatively early in the transfer window.
And the disastrous decision of not signing Bruno earlier almost cost us UCL. It would have if Leicester didn't choke very hard.
Just because they got lucky doesn't mean they were right.
Also, they had to pay much more for Maguire, a player they rejected before for much less.
That transfer window was not a success, it was a big damage control that could have been easily avoided by making better decisions in the first place.
My boy is only 4 months old. By the time he's old enough to understand football, I'm gonna have to show him YouTube clips of Rooney and Cristiano to explain why I support a team that finishes 8-12th every season.
Good points. If this transfer window finishes without us strengthening the team, we'd know where priorities lie for the owners and Woodward.
We made 3 signings last season because we missed out on CL. Let's see how many we make this off season.
Hate to say it but there are signs that the owners are content with top 4 much like we used to see with Arsenal and god that is depressing to say the least.
I really believed they would back Ole properly and not shaft him like we saw with Jose in the summer of 2018.
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The question is what would Ole do if he is not backed this summer? It is clear that he wants the likes of Sancho but he might not end up getting the players whom he wants. He also does not seem to trust majority of the squad outside the first eleven and if there are no reinforcements, we are in for another miserable season.
When Ed starts leaking to the press that a DOF search is on the way to help identify and purchase targets, thats when I know the club won't be buying anyone.
It'll somehow all be Ole's fault with his clueless tactics.
They have the perfect excuse not to, and they have a manager that I expect won't throw his toys out the pram as a result.
End of the day, nobody knows what's going on day to day...but if this side doesn't get at least 3 quality additions, it's on the slide.
There's no denying that our board is a train wreck. That is well documented not by 1 manager but 3 (Moyes, LVG and Mou). However Ole can't expect to sort each problem by throwing 50m-120m at it. He needs to start trusting his scouts more. If Sir Alex worked Ole's way then Ole would have never have made it with United in the first place.
These threads are on football forums all over the land at the moment....why haven't we done this, X has signed X and we've done nothing, board out etc. Ours included.
Reality is you can do deals now if you're happy to overpay but that can be the difference between signing just the one target or adding a couple. It's all fuelled by a little dopamine hit when you see a BOOM or HERE WE GO on twitter, but how many of you are happy to overpay for stuff in your personal lives?
Just do something else during the window and see where you are at the end. We're talking complex, multi-party deals with mega-money involved here, they ain't street market traders.
Reality is you can do deals now if you're happy to overpay but that can be the difference between signing just the one target or adding a couple. It's all fuelled by a little dopamine hit when you see a BOOM or HERE WE GO on twitter, but how many of you are happy to overpay for stuff in your personal lives?
Just do something else during the window and see where you are at the end. We're talking complex, multi-party deals with mega-money involved here, they ain't street market traders.
This is my concern and Ole will be fired, we will be back to square one with the whole cycle repeating again.
The problem isn't money it's disorganisation. We have no director of football. No single person is responsible for our inadequate squad. If we make someone responsible we also need to give them the power to sort the issues out. Because we won't give anyone this power, we'll never have a single person responsible to ensure we start the season with a squad strong enough to win the title. We could spend twice as much money in the transfer market and that issue still wouldn't be fixed.
Difficult to compare the eras though.
Fergie wasn't dealing with sugar daddy clubs (though he was dealing with some fantastic Liverpool and Arsenal sides), and a general yearly sacking culture
People forget that there was still a very good side there that came very close under Atkinson prior to Fergie arrival...though it still needed sorting...both in terms of playing staff and general culture.
And, tbf, as far as modern football goes Fergie never would have made it at United in the first place...he'd have been shown the door his first season. If not he'd have certaibly been out on his ear following his third!
Fergie bought in proven quality in the likes of Viv, McClair, Ince, Pallister and Hughes...whilst taking chances on the likes of Sharpe from lower leagues...with significant rumours of Hirst, Pearce and Beardsley...then came Keane...young perhaps but again not exactly left field, and a record transfer at the time?
Not much need for scouting there bar Sharpey... they were established names with a certain pedigree...albeit making a step up in the cases of some like Ince.
As we all know we chased Shearer on several occasions...firstly from Southampton. He was no secret even then.
Then the rise of a certain Mr Giggs finding his way into the side, and Fergie had a masterstroke when he capitlised on the Cantona situation at Leeds. Pure opportunism from a shrewd fecker.
If I remember the story right Wilkinson was on the phone looking for Irwin, we told them to dream on and ended up with a genius. That always felt like a big moment.
I agree with you in part mind.
Where the scouting shone through for me were the additions Sharpe, Big Pete, Kanchelskis and obviously Ole some time later.
It has to be built on solid foundations though.
Fergie did so by spending significant funds (by measure of the times), and as a result had the overall squad quality to give young players their chance and the rest is history.
Again, as we point out...he didn't and couldn't solve all of our problems in one or two seasons.
This was all done without the reaches of amatuer internet scouts, ITK twitterati, consistent and hourly sports news updates and football foruk experts. At the least at the beginning.
Which isn't necessarily expressly relevant to my post, more a thought. Had to go to Teletext and Clubcall in the early 90s
It's the danger.
Honestly, I'm not Ole's biggest endorser by any means. I'm certainly not in the camp of him being some sort of fraud, I'm just not in the same frame of mind as those who seem convinced of his suitability and potential.
But you can't close the gap unless we see a continous commitment to improve our first 11 and squad depth.
I'm all for the promotion of young exciting talent too, but we have to get that solid spine sorted...and bring in players that genuinely improve us.
If we don't Ole is going to be attempting to do it with one hand tied behind his back. That's not to say he's been given nothing to spend...but holy feck...if anyone thinks that's the limit of it they are crazy.
We have the worst transfer management in the league (not just because of this window).
- Di Maria, Sanchez, Falcao, Lukaku (now in great form for Inter), James (?), Maguire (overpaid), Givong chances and keeping average players on high wages, Pogba not wanted then wanted as Pogback, Bruno coming too late (or just in time) to save the season, Addressing the weak areas too late. We are too late in almost everything whch shows a bad management (Ed?).
- Di Maria, Sanchez, Falcao, Lukaku (now in great form for Inter), James (?), Maguire (overpaid), Givong chances and keeping average players on high wages, Pogba not wanted then wanted as Pogback, Bruno coming too late (or just in time) to save the season, Addressing the weak areas too late. We are too late in almost everything whch shows a bad management (Ed?).
Absolutely no one is signing players of significance with the exception of Chelsea who couldn't for a season so are playing catch up. I'm sure City fans aren't talking about their CB issues have been resolved with those signings either. Our issue for me are more the style of play cause without one, not sure what players we need either....
Everyone is being cautious bar the sugar daddy funded clubs. Liverpool have made bare cash lately and are worried about forking out over £30m for a top player. Let’s calm down for a bit and get perspective. Must be exciting to be a Chelsea fan at the moment though the lucky gits.
Could that belief be based on the fact that Ole has been given circa 200m (including breaking the world record for a defender) since he took over. I think that is backing him.
If Jose was shafted it was rightly so, his signings were shit and we would have ended up with Perisic and co had we backed him. By 2018 I think there were doubts in the Boardroom about giving him another 250m.
The Sancho signing an obvious one but maybe his demands are unrealistic? If so I hope we steer clear of him. We need 2 or 3 players who are better then what we currently have, they are not that easy to find. City and Pool haven't exactly been splashing the cash either thus far.
You can apply that kind of list to every top team, signing players aren't a science. Most signings will fail than succeed at any level. Whilst I'm not defending Ed, how can we justify paying 80m for a CB, only needing to sign another one to cover his deficiencies? Giving players like Pereira, Jones and Mata extensions is on Ole's watch. Bruno never saved our season, getting all the players back saved it more. We are not late, when we sign players unlike any other team in the country, we are aware of Utd interest from day one and therefore it feels longer than any other....a bit like a bloody royal engagement or pregnancy
We tend to spend a load of money after failing to qualify for the Champions League in order to close the gap and bring in the extra CL revenue. As soon as we are back in however, the money dries up. It's happening this summer and it happened under Mourinho after we came 2nd and he was refused Maguire.
I do think there is a trend developing. It seems like the Glazers are happy with top 4 finishes as it's the most profitable way to run a football club. The club will get pretty much the same revenues (as those coming 1st) without having to splash the cash to complete with the sugar daddy clubs, so from a financial perspective it's the most profitable.
Agree but Chelsea had to wait a season for it. It's like a kid getting nothing for one Christmas and then seemingly getting double the next. It's not double really, just what you should have already had!!! Agree with perspective, whilst I'm not making excuses, there were a lot of injuries at the start of last season and I'm not sure how you improve the squad when your average player is 50m. We paid that for Fred and even though he's done ok, people aren't happy with him. We pay 20m for a young player, and although only one season, people aren't happy with James either. We promote a young left back and after one season, people aren't happy with him either!!! What exactly do people want?
Our 85/86 side was a strange one - because it was so filled with injury-plagued players it was ridiculous. In that season, only 5 players reached 30 leage games - and 2 of them were Whiteside and McGrath of all people.
Robson, Strachan, Olsen, Moran, Bailey to name some - all missed more than 1/3 of all league games.
Yep, Glazers are clearly following that successful business model has worked wonders for Arsenal as a club. Yes Arsenal are rolling in cash based on the profitable model??? Look at that line of top players that wanted to sign for them as just a top 4 club? Spurs equally? Which sugar daddy clubs are splashing the cash anyway? Chelsea couldn't sign anyone last year......
Liverpool finished first, that’s the difference. They get away with penny pinching, we don’t.
Every club needs to strengthen each summer otherwise that's how you get overtaken. The fact they are penny pinching after winning the title and Champions League recently just proves it effects the finances of every club. The funny thing is people in other threads are praising them for having signed Thiago when they are doing the exact same as what we are doing with Sancho, supposedly.
We’ll end up missing out on Sancho, I think we fecked that up several weeks ago.
The Glazers aren't bothered about sporting success. If a trophy comes along then it's an additional bonus. They are here to maximise revenues with as little investment as possible; it's why they haven't touched OT in 15 years.
Arsenal have large cash reserves as they follow the same approach also. Kroenke and the Glazers are pretty similar, however, one hasn't cost their club over a £1 billion in debt repayments with nothing to show for it! It's a shame that our owner has.
Regarding sugar daddy clubs, City are showing intent this year after coming 2nd. They got two deals done early and it looks like Koulibaly might be on the way too. I think Ferran Torres will be a decent signing for 20 million euros; we could have bought him, its just a shame we pay out more than this each year in dividends to the Glazer family and have done for the last 5 years.
Tosh
I suppose it depends on whether you want to "improve" or buy the players to help us actually challengeNah I skipped those years clearly
I honestly think people are going way over board as usual. It's August and the window closes October. Nothing about this season or year in fact has worked out how it's supposed to. We will make signings I'm confident on that. They might not be Sancho but we will improve the squad as we always do. We spent £200m during last season alone and had no CL football to help finance it. Our fans are never happy.
Personally provided we have Smalling back this year and maybe even Henderson, who knows whats gonna happen there, I would be happy with 3 or 4 signings like David Brooks.
Sancho is amazing dont get me wrong but if there is a silver lining to not getting him its that 3 of our most talented players are all young strikers and all 3 of then should score 20 goals or more next season, thats an amazing return.
All 3 of them will get much better just through natural progression cuz theyre all very young.
So yeah, Smalling back thats CB strengthened.
Brooks thats RW strengthened. Now get a full back, perhaps 2 full backs or a defensive midfielder and we are rolling.
I feel we will have sufficient star power now with Bruno, Pogba, Martial, Rashford and Greenwood. Yes I see all 5 as either stars or potential stars. Just strengthening the team, adding to the depth will go a long way for us.
Sancho is amazing dont get me wrong but if there is a silver lining to not getting him its that 3 of our most talented players are all young strikers and all 3 of then should score 20 goals or more next season, thats an amazing return.
All 3 of them will get much better just through natural progression cuz theyre all very young.
So yeah, Smalling back thats CB strengthened.
Brooks thats RW strengthened. Now get a full back, perhaps 2 full backs or a defensive midfielder and we are rolling.
I feel we will have sufficient star power now with Bruno, Pogba, Martial, Rashford and Greenwood. Yes I see all 5 as either stars or potential stars. Just strengthening the team, adding to the depth will go a long way for us.
Getting very frustrated like a lack of activity. If any other business of United's size and stature was ran like this heads would roll.
We are always reacting in the transfer market. Chelsea seem to have their targets lined up and are getting their business done nice and early. We seem to be content with getting 3rd.
Is there anything United fans can do to get the powers that be to act. Is there any online petition we can sign? Very frustrated with the club at the minute.
We are always reacting in the transfer market. Chelsea seem to have their targets lined up and are getting their business done nice and early. We seem to be content with getting 3rd.
Is there anything United fans can do to get the powers that be to act. Is there any online petition we can sign? Very frustrated with the club at the minute.
Perhaps. Will be interesting to see how this window pans out.
“Whilst #mufc continue to ask Gabriel Magalhães' camp to delay his decision, they are still yet to make an official bid and are now set to miss out on the player with Arsenal on the brink of signing him for £27m #mulive [independent]”
the state of our club. Joel Glazer nixed the deal reportedly saying that we have Mike Smalling and that he’s the “English Maldini”after spending a year on loan in Italy.
the state of our club. Joel Glazer nixed the deal reportedly saying that we have Mike Smalling and that he’s the “English Maldini”after spending a year on loan in Italy.
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Other managers have done well without having to constantly break the bank to sort every problem that crops up. We're the ones who have broke the bank to get the most expensive CB and 6 months later we look set to break the bank again to get Sancho. We need to get smarter regarding the transfer market. Take Chelsea as an example. The likes of Werner and Ziyech would have strengthened us significantly despite not costing an arm and a leg.Difficult to compare the eras though.
Fergie wasn't dealing with sugar daddy clubs (though he was dealing with some fantastic Liverpool and Arsenal sides), and a general yearly sacking culture
People forget that there was still a very good side there that came very close under Atkinson prior to Fergie arrival...though it still needed sorting...both in terms of playing staff and general culture.
And, tbf, as far as modern football goes Fergie never would have made it at United in the first place...he'd have been shown the door his first season. If not he'd have certaibly been out on his ear following his third!
Fergie bought in proven quality in the likes of Viv, McClair, Ince, Pallister and Hughes...whilst taking chances on the likes of Sharpe from lower leagues...with significant rumours of Hirst, Pearce and Beardsley...then came Keane...young perhaps but again not exactly left field, and a record transfer at the time?
Not much need for scouting there bar Sharpey... they were established names with a certain pedigree...albeit making a step up in the cases of some like Ince.
As we all know we chased Shearer on several occasions...firstly from Southampton. He was no secret even then.
Then the rise of a certain Mr Giggs finding his way into the side, and Fergie had a masterstroke when he capitlised on the Cantona situation at Leeds. Pure opportunism from a shrewd fecker.
If I remember the story right Wilkinson was on the phone looking for Irwin, we told them to dream on and ended up with a genius. That always felt like a big moment.
I agree with you in part mind.
Where the scouting shone through for me were the additions Sharpe, Big Pete, Kanchelskis and obviously Ole some time later.
It has to be built on solid foundations though.
Fergie did so by spending significant funds (by measure of the times), and as a result had the overall squad quality to give young players their chance and the rest is history.
Again, as we point out...he didn't and couldn't solve all of our problems in one or two seasons.
This was all done without the reaches of amatuer internet scouts, ITK twitterati, consistent and hourly sports news updates and football foruk experts. At the least at the beginning.
Which isn't necessarily expressly relevant to my post, more a thought. Had to go to Teletext and Clubcall in the early 90s