Would ETH have been better off entering the winter window 5th?

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Red the Bear

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I doubt the Glazers would have spent money anyhow.
 

Red in STL

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HasTten Hag ever come out and said he'd like to buy Felix or any other player for that matter?

I'm sure he knows what he wants but as far as I know he's never said publically who they are - if he has I must have missed it
 

bosnian_red

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People want more and more, especially when huge spending getting slowly old and adequate end results are yet to be seen. The overall mood should be way better in the end of February/March. Perhaps trip to Wembley will bring back strong emotions from the past, but still... need to win some games first.
I think the overall mood has been great. It's some people who lack perspective and are annoyed that we aren't title challengers 6 months in to Ten Hags time here that are frankly laughable, but other than that most people seem to have some logic.
 

AlPistacho

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We’re 12 months behind Arsenal, they’ve been in a difficult position for a while but it’s clicked for them and investing in the right areas is starting to have a positive impact.

We’ll be challenging this time next year, it was always going to be a an uphill struggle this season but we’d have all taken this position at this Point in the season.

We’ve bought well and EtH has done a great job, we look like an actual team for the first time in years, just stick to the plan.
I know. But we’ve progressed so far this season under ETH. For the first time we know what’s needed. I felt like 1-2 signings this window would have propelled us in the short-term to a title challenge. Then come summer sell a few squad players eg Maguire, McTominay etc and get the 2 players he planned on getting.
 

AlPistacho

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I think the overall mood has been great. It's some people who lack perspective and are annoyed that we aren't title challengers 6 months in to Ten Hags time here that are frankly laughable, but other than that most people seem to have some logic.
Not quite sure you get my point or logic. I felt we entered the window in the tile race, that’s my opinion. And due to this ETH deserved some players to help the team maintain its form. It was obvious lack of squad depth and a forward was our achilles heel.
 

Orange Tree

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We spent over 200 millions in the summer and currently being sold to who knows who.
 

bosnian_red

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Not quite sure you get my point or logic. I felt we entered the window in the tile race, that’s my opinion. And due to this ETH deserved some players to help the team maintain its form. It was obvious lack of squad depth and a forward was our achilles heel.
Yeah but it's not like we have a bottomless pit of money that we can spend... We spent 230m last summer, spending now vs spending in the summer has different accounting impacts. And as always it's about getting the right players. We overspent in the summer so an actual signing was never on, but either way it has to make sense. Joao Felix didn't make sense as he's not a striker, and Gakpo isn't good enough but also isn't what we need as he is a LW. You could argue that you might reach if you are close and need that extra little bit, but we weren't close to anything. We would need to go perfect pretty much in the 2nd half of the season to be an actual title winner, which was never on. So from that perspective, spending 16m on a 5 month loan just doesn't make sense as we are comfortable in top 4, and would need literally Lewandowski/Kane/Benzema added to turn us into real title challengers. And that's from an even standing.

No point in getting worked up about it because we spent a lot in the summer and you can't really complain about spending under Ten Hag.
 

SAFMUTD

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It would've made no difference enter as 1st, 4th or 10th. The Glazers are selling they won't spend any more on the squad they're on their way out.
 

wolvored

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I doubt the board would have sanctioned any meaningful transfers whilst the club is going through a sale process
This. First or tenth we would have still been scrating for loan players. The parasites have closed the wallet for good, until they sell up.
 

meamth

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What do you expect? Instant ETH effect?

First season and already challenging for the title?

The normal point accumulation for this season is actually City's form, not Arsenal's. The latter did an unbelievable job of running away with the title.

If we're assuming City as the leaders, we're not far off actually.
 

cyril C

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Bit of a rant. But I feel todays defeat was all about the board & owners and in months to come people will look at this window as the one where United’s board screwed up and let ETH & United down.

We were/are in the position where we could genuinely have made a title challenge if we signed 1-2 of the right players. But instead the board appear to be content that we seem cert for a top 4 finish so denied ETH his top window targets. At another “victory” orientated club a man in ETH position would have been told right your surpassing expectations for this season what do you need to challenge for the league in the final half. Obviously not at United.

I wonder if we were 5th or 6th with 4th in our sites would it have been better for ETH. The board fearing losing out on CL money and reduction in the clubs price would have probably signed one of ETH targets. We know 4th is all these leeches care about.

Anyways today was a credit to the manager. This time last year we lost 4-0. Hope ETH gets the players he needs, and believe me he won’t need much more to have a team that challenges for the league. His work so far is amazing. People talk about Arteta, compare him to Arteta after 6 months. Also remember Arteta took over a team that was playing a similar style for 20 years. People talk about Pep? Pep took over an already successful and he didn’t turn things around as much as ETH has in 6 months. Klopp? Klopp took over team that needed a new direction and even he took 1-2 seasons to make the progress ETH has.
There was another thread stating that only Liverpool and Spurs are in any position to spend, ever, until players are sold, per latest FFP situation. We are not talking about saving wages, but wholesale one-off income of multi-million.

So even if we are 15th on the league table, loan is our only option. Our problem is not about lacking expensive players, our problem is about lacking quality players who are fit and available.
 

AFC NimbleThumb

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The well has run dry so no. I don’t think we were spending money this month regardless which is a joke given how squad depth has cost us massively in the last 2 games.
 

kouroux

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Targets change. Under ETH we’ve gone from a team that was barely expected to make top 4, to one that if you look at could challenge for the league. The reason we most likely won’t is because we failed to sign a proper forward & CM cover this winter.
That's where you're wrong IMHO, we were never challenging for the title. That's just crazy talk, top 4 (3rd/4th) was always the best possible finish.
 

croadyman

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You're mental if you think we can sign our dream targets e.g. Osimhen, Kane during winter. Or I don't know if you're suggesting we use our summer budget right now on some temporary signings like Memphis who would be tied to a long contract.
Yeah the likes of Fernandez wouldn't have moved in this window unless someone paid RC. I am getting the distinct impression that De Jong is more comfortable at Barca and won't move.
 

croadyman

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That's where you're wrong IMHO, we were never challenging for the title. That's just crazy talk, top 4 (3rd/4th) was always the best possible finish.
Yeah we are too reliant on Rashford and that strategy will not get you in a title race
 

bosnian_red

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The well has run dry so no. I don’t think we were spending money this month regardless which is a joke given how squad depth has cost us massively in the last 2 games.
It's not a joke really - it's just the reality of a non sugar daddy club. If you overspend in the summer which we obviously did, then naturally January will be dry and you gotta wait til the summer. That's just the reality of 99% of football clubs who don't effectively cheat their way up.
 

croadyman

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It's not a joke really - it's just the reality of a non sugar daddy club. If you overspend in the summer which we obviously did, then naturally January will be dry and you gotta wait til the summer. That's just the reality of 99% of football clubs who don't effectively cheat their way up.
Damn if only we hadn't spent so much on Antony
 

AFC NimbleThumb

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It's not a joke really - it's just the reality of a non sugar daddy club. If you overspend in the summer which we obviously did, then naturally January will be dry and you gotta wait til the summer. That's just the reality of 99% of football clubs who don't effectively cheat their way up.
Manchester United football club should’t require a sugar daddy to finance the club though, so yes it is a joke. The wells run dry because the owner structure have leeched from it & cut corners then sporadically thrown good money after bad.

You don’t need to be state owned to not be up to your eyeballs in credit which is the situation the club finds itself in now. The ‘overspend’ in the Summer follows years of ‘misspend’ which not all 99% of non-state owned clubs don’t seem to suffer from.
 

croadyman

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Manchester United football club should’t require a sugar daddy to finance the club though, so yes it is a joke. The wells run dry because the owner structure have leeched from it & cut corners then sporadically thrown good money after bad.

You don’t need to be state owned to not be up to your eyeballs in credit which is the situation the club finds itself in now. The ‘overspend’ in the Summer follows years of ‘misspend’ which not all 99% of non-state owned clubs don’t seem to suffer from.
With how much we need across first XI and squad depth I want state ownership
 

AFC NimbleThumb

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With how much we need across first XI and squad depth I want state ownership
I’m not going to get moralistic. I just want the debt cleared & the clubs hands to be untied from behind it’s back.

The club itself should quite easily be able to handle a Summer transfer window like last year without suddenly worrying about leaving the lights on.

Given the years of malpractice though the next owner is going to need to spend 2+ Billion on infrastructure so state owned appeals. . .
 

bosnian_red

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Manchester United football club should’t require a sugar daddy to finance the club though, so yes it is a joke. The wells run dry because the owner structure have leeched from it & cut corners then sporadically thrown good money after bad.

You don’t need to be state owned to not be up to your eyeballs in credit which is the situation the club finds itself in now. The ‘overspend’ in the Summer follows years of ‘misspend’ which not all 99% of non-state owned clubs don’t seem to suffer from.
In terms of transfers, we are consistently one of the highest spenders. We spent 230m last summer. Anyone who is upset at a lack of spending in January is ONLY going to be happy with fake lottery money through a sugar daddy. Because when a club spends what we spent last summer, January is 100% a dry month. No matter how much you earn.

Yeah, we've been poorly run. But we do still spend big every summer and will continue to spend big next summer. We'll still do another 100-150m net spend summer. Some people will never be satisfied though. The reasons to criticize the glazers for me just don't include the amount of money we've spent on transfers the past decade tbh. There's a million reasons before that, given we are one of the highest spenders in world football the past decade.
 

amolbhatia50k

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We need to chill. Arsenal are much better than us and will be champions for a reason. We have a few glaring issues we need to work on - CF, RB (urgh) and midfield in particular. You can't fix everything in one season. Process has been made but we won't skip steps.
 

croadyman

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We need to chill. Arsenal are much better than us and will be champions for a reason. We have a few glaring issues we need to work on - CF, RB (urgh) and midfield in particular. You can't fix everything in one season. Process has been made but we won't skip steps.
Blimey I came up with 7 players needed and that didn't include a RB which is worrying
 

AFC NimbleThumb

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In terms of transfers, we are consistently one of the highest spenders. We spent 230m last summer. Anyone who is upset at a lack of spending in January is ONLY going to be happy with fake lottery money through a sugar daddy. Because when a club spends what we spent last summer, January is 100% a dry month. No matter how much you earn.

Yeah, we've been poorly run. But we do still spend big every summer and will continue to spend big next summer. We'll still do another 100-150m net spend summer. Some people will never be satisfied though. The reasons to criticize the glazers for me just don't include the amount of money we've spent on transfers the past decade tbh. There's a million reasons before that, given we are one of the highest spenders in world football the past decade.
Are you saying I’m only going to be happy with fake lottery money through a sugar daddy? Quite the jump from me saying the club should sustain itself. . .

As for spending money under the Glazers. Who said we haven’t? Trouble is it’s not been their money to spend or we wouldn’t be up to our eyes on the credit cards.

I don’t see many, if any posters on here clamouring for the club to spend big this month for the sake of it so I’m not sure who that post is directed at. Even if the club had endless funds getting certain targets wouldn’t happen till the Summer anyway. The issue is the well should at no point be as dry as it is now. Should we require a short term fix it shouldn’t come in the form of the Igahlo’s or the Weghorst’s, that’s more to do with shoddy squad planning than wanting Kane or Osimhen in January which isn’t going to happen.
 

Amir

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Yeah I'll be the first to admit that I'm pretty clueless about financial shit, but haven't we been heavily in debt since they took us over? What's different now?
I believe that in the past we've also had money in the bank that we used on transfers, regardless of the debt. That has gone now.

Probably the income that was lost due to Covid is also a major factor.
 

Ludens the Red

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If there’s anything to have a go at the owners for this season I don’t think it’s a lack of spend. If anything I think they shouldn’t have allowed for the Anthony move. If you spend that much it must be on the finished product not someone who we’re going to wishfully say will come good in 2-3 years.
But then you can also talk about the fact we still seem to struggle massively at identifying decent players who won’t cost an arm and a leg. I’d love to know what it is Brighton have in place that we don’t that sees this happen with so much frequency.
Although iirc didn’t we veto a deal for Caicedo:rolleyes:
 

AlPistacho

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That's where you're wrong IMHO, we were never challenging for the title. That's just crazy talk, top 4 (3rd/4th) was always the best possible finish.
Disagree. For the first time since 2012, the positions we need to challenge for the league are obvious. 1 forward and 1 backup CDM. Even without these we could still do it but it would take huge luck, no injuries and other teams messing up.
 

RuudTom83

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United have no money to spend. Something the fans need to get used to until new owners arrive.
 

romufc

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I really dont get this. We need to realise where we are. We played against Arsenal who are an amazing football team, we should very good levels in that game.

This notion of oh if we were 5th is rubbish, I would rather have the points than chasing 4th by 5 points, just because some of our fans want us to spend 100m in Jan.

Reminds me of Mark Goldbridge vibes when he is moaning at every other club making a transfer and crying United aren't but will forget a team without CL football spent 200m in the summer.

Regardless of what club you are, spending that much money in one window will have an impact in the next one.
 

kouroux

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Disagree. For the first time since 2012, the positions we need to challenge for the league are obvious. 1 forward and 1 backup CDM. Even without these we could still do it but it would take huge luck, no injuries and other teams messing up.
So we were never challenging for the title then? You're describing a perfect alignment of planets. ETH arrived recently at a deeply sick club, we were never challenging seriously for the title.
 

AlPistacho

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So we were never challenging for the title then? You're describing a perfect alignment of planets. ETH arrived recently at a deeply sick club, we were never challenging seriously for the title.
I think we could have. Based on ETH being as good as he is, Liverpool and Chelsea being out, we really could if he had two extra players. He’s getting 110% out of what he has.
 

kouroux

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I think we could have. Based on ETH being as good as he is, Liverpool and Chelsea being out, we really could if he had two extra players. He’s getting 110% out of what he has.
In a fictional scenario, yes. The reality is different. We didn't need the Palace game nor last night to know that. Maybe next season with a few more signings and departures and that's not even sure because by then Chelsea and Liverpool could also be back
 

amolbhatia50k

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Disagree. For the first time since 2012, the positions we need to challenge for the league are obvious. 1 forward and 1 backup CDM. Even without these we could still do it but it would take huge luck, no injuries and other teams messing up.
It takes a top class team to win the league right now. We’re a fair distance from that. That you think a backup DM is sufficient is worrying. We have a good way to go before we can consistently dominate football matches. Time under ETH coaching is required but so is an improvement in our first choice options. We need a better 8. A quality RB too and more.
 

AlPistacho

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It takes a top class team to win the league right now. We’re a fair distance from that. That you think a backup DM is sufficient is worrying. We have a good way to go before we can consistently dominate football matches. Time under ETH coaching is required but so is an improvement in our first choice options. We need a better 8. A quality RB too and more.
Don’t get me wrong. A back up CDM would not be enough to regularly challenge / win the league. But I believe this year it might have been.

Even to become genuine regular challengers I don’t think we need too many more signings. Forward, world class CM, back up CDM, back up for Varane.
 
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