Would you be happy with accepting a draw in our big away matches if we won the league?

[Sky1981]

You do understand that if... Let's say if... Lukaku shots or matic's luckily went in and we won 1-0 it'll totally paint a different story.

And if mane shot instead went in it'll be a different story.

Stop complaining for the sake of it, give the manager some time and see what he's up to. Im tired of reading all this sanctimonious bullshit about playing the united way bla bla bla. United way, or whatever you called it is there because we're winning things first and foremost.

 

[Zimkid]

I would rather win the league and play a conservative approach against the top teams. The annoying thing is when you are now playing the same philosophy against a Stoke or a West Ham. Against lower teams ... go for the kill, throw the sink to ensure thorough victories.

 

[iluvoursolskjær]

As bad as our performance was (down to the individual players, couldn't complete simple fecking passes) I just don't get the heat. We had matic and Herrera (who's had how many appearances??) In midfield against a 3. Who did we have to make a 3 of our own? Fellaini at 10 would have helped avoid the press, but unavailable. Carrick even if available would have got walked through. Mata is great in position, non-existent without. There was just no one avaliable to help control the game in the middle of the park, our forwards had nothing to work with. Didn't help that as previously mentioned, our players were dogturd.

That's why Pogba would have been huge in this game. A midfield 3 of him herrera and matic available, and I'd put it all on Jose. But Miki (and most the team tbf) shit the bed.

A point is a good result at Anfield in most circumstances. And given the run of play, especially so imo. If anything it should accentuate how poor Liverpool were. But ovvi the media will frame it differently. Klopp is 1 dimensional and over rated. He's like pep in the sense that he needs a very particular group of players to implement his style. Just way less successful.

 

[Flames73]

Usually you only remember winning the league, not how they won or who they beat. If there are some classic matches, then thats an added bonus. But winning the league comes first. A game in the end is just 90 minutes.

 

[Ali Dia]

Yes I would but I was very unhappy on Saturday afternoon. I just think what's the point in spending money comparable to the biggest clubs in the world (an awful lot more than Liverpool have) and then going there and playing like a team in the bottom half. I know it's a pragmatic approach from the manager, we have injuries and Liverpool always raise their game against us...

....I also know we won ugly with Fergie quite a lot and at the end of the day that's all that people will remember but for now but I still can't really get my head around the toothless performance. We didn't even try to knick the game at any stage in the second half. It was quite a cynical performance.

 

[Mike09]

It'll be hard to win the league especially if there is one or two teams who are very consistent. Unlike in the past, it's used to be top 4 so it would have been very possible back in the days to win it. Now it's top 6. So let's say if we get a draw in away games against top 6 that means we lost 10 points already. That's already a lot and not to mention we might lose a few points in some tricky matches like Stoke and etc.

 

[::sonny::]

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[LeftyBlaster]

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[LoneStar]

All day. As long as we consistently hammer the lower teams and draw(maybe nick a win) against the top 6 away, we should be able to win it or come very close. For me the draw against Stoke was worse than the Pool result.

 

[Mindhunter]

Yes, I would in the short term. In the long term i.e. 3-4 seasons, I want us to be known for our flair and attacking intent and never-day-die attitude and not for our defense and resilience and the ability to soak pressure.

 

[Bojan11]

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Yeah and 3 of them were when we gave up the league. Had defenders dropping like flies. So had to rest players for the Europa. It was the first time Wenger beat Mourinho in the league ffs. That's how little Mourinho cared about those games.

People need to look at it in context rather than posting their agendas against Mourinho.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Stupid thread. Everyone would take the mentioned scenario barring the odd fellow. The majority of the posters complaining are most likely critical of our performance and approach to game, and

A) Based on that have doubts about our credentials as potential title winners against a team that goes into these games with a more aggressive and progressive outlook.

B) And/or they feel we could have potentially got a better result or will get better results if we set up differently in this game or do so in future big games.

One can agree or disagree with that deduction but to paint their entire argument as one of mere unacceptable is incorrect.

If anything it's the OP who comes across as lazy in that he disregards or fails identify the nuances of the arguments he's come to disagree with.

Long story short - most people aren't critical of defensive drab merely because they find it dull. It's also because they feel we can do better (I.e get more points) doing it a different way, and may even need to keep pace with City. Which makes the OP come across as a bit weird.

 

[Raees]

Pochettino most definitely doesnt have a 'Mourinho esque' way of playing away from home. I think thats just an assumption because it fits the narrative that you cant win anything by playing the way we did at Liverpool.

Pochettino plays the same formation in almost every game, but shifts the position of Dier into a more advanced position to give more midfield numbers if it is needed. Wanyama and Dembele are injured so im not sure how spurs are playing this season but they were an 'attacking' side away from home last season

Mourinho against Liverpool is an extreme tactic but in general, Poch does play more cautiously and his side plays more akin to an old school Jose team away from home. He has more emphasis on possession, and they're more attacking than a Mourinho side but still nowhere near as attacking as a Liverpool or City side. Either way I have always had question marks on Poch's winning mentality, and the stats bear that out.. thus far he hasn't shown enough big match or trophy wins to prove he's got the mentality needed to be a United manager and that is something he needs to demonstrate. Even something like an FA cup win to show something for the work he's carried out.

 

[Fahad Jawaid]

I watched the match and i felt sick at the style of football. I think people need to differentiate between conservative side and parking the bus. I loved mourinho teams at how good they were at soaking up the pressure and then counter attacking. They never allowed the other teams to create chances and despite playing on counter used to create several good chances and take one or two of them to pick other teams off. (E.g inter vs barca or several classico's or inter vs bayern, city vs chelsea) to name a few. Infact sometimes i used to watch classico's and used to think thats the best approach to beat barca, when they were at its best.

Now coming to us, its been a weird style, more or less like how a low league team play against big boys. The fact that we could not string 5 passes together before someone giving it away was shocking. Whether it was thr tactics or the players its anybody's guess. But i suppose madrid and chelsea fans will agree, from all the big matches i remember mourinho playing with madrid, chelsea, inter there style was conservative and counter attacking but not this boring and anti football. Furthermore, i would love to win the league, and i might be ok with playing big teams away this way in the league. But the question is where does it stop?

We might have to face big teams at home will we employ the same style or against big teams in fa cup or league cup matches, or in champions league round of 16 or quaters etc? And what bothers me most is bar city i dont actually think there is any team in the league better than us, so if we go toe to toe against them, i am confident at getting a result. So why employ this i would never know.

 

[Mylifeistooazn]

We are Manchester United, we should crush anyone that stands in out way

 

[Wibble]

On a different day we would have scored 1 or 2 in the last ten minutes against Liverpool. I'm also not sure this will be exactly the pattern against all top opposition away when we have fewer players injured and one or two signed in Jan (possibly).

 

[Treble]

Huh? When has that ever not been enough?

Has the City wankathon got so bad that we’ve already decided they will definitely get a record points total? Might as well give up the ghost now, so.

89 pts weren't enough season 11-12. For United. Vs City.

Btw, the start to that season was almost identical to this season: both points and GD wise.

 

[ti vu]

89 pts weren't enough season 11-12. For United. Vs City.

Our fault to blame dropping silly point vs Wigan. A draw would do.

Technically: 89point won the title so @Pogue Mahone point stands.

 

[Treble]

Our fault to blame dropping silly point vs Wigan. A draw would do.

Technically: 89point won the title so @Pogue Mahone point stands.

It doesn't because a team on 89 pts didn't win the league.

 

[Frank Grimes]

It doesn't because a team on 89 pts didn't win the league.

Except for City who finished on 89 points.

 

[anant]

No one cares about the results if you win the league. No one remembers that we lost 5-0 to chelsea the season we won the treble and no one would have been talking about 6-1 City had we not messed up in our final 4 games and won the league then

 

[Jaybomb]

I would take 1-0’s and 0-0’s every game if it meant winning the league.

 

[Rory 7]

Ah for fux sake. Yes. I’d be delighted no matter what way we win the league. Get over that line.

 

[freeurmind]

So I looked at Mourinho's record away form home in big games over his entire career since Porto, big games I considered to be Sporting and Benfica, Spurs, Arsenal, Liverpool and United in his first run at Chelsea; AC, Rom, Juve and Napoli in Italy; Barca, Atleti and Valencia in Spain; Spurs, Arsenal, United, City, Liverpool and Chelsea for his second go in England, including Leicester during their title winning season.

Porto: 02/03 (won league)
Sporting 1-0
Benifca 1-0

03/04 (won league)
Sporting 1-1
Benfica 1-1

Total: 2 wins, 2 draws, no defeats 4 goals for, 2 against

Chelsea: 04/05 (won league)
Arsenal 2-2
Liverpool 1-1
Spurs 2-0
Utd 3-1

05/06 (won league)
Spurs 2-0
Liverpool 4-1
Utd 0-1
Arsenal 2-0

06/07 (2nd)
Spurs 1-2
Utd 1-1
Liverpool 0-2
Arsenal 1-1

07/08 (resigned 20 September)
Utd 0-2

Total: 6 wins, 3 draws, 4 losses, 18 goals for 13 against.

Inter: 08/09 (won league)
AC: 0-1
Roma: 4-0
Napoli: 0-1
Juve: 1-1

09/10 (won league)
AC: 4-0
Juve: 1-2
Napoli: 0-0
Roma: 1-2

Total: 2 wins, 2 draws, 4 losses, 11 goals for 7 against


Real Madrid: 10/11 (2nd)
Barca: 0-5
Atleti: 2-1
Valencia: 6-3

11/12 (won league)
Valencia: 3-2
Atleti: 4-1
Barca: 2-1

12/13 (2nd)
Barca: 2-2
Valencia: 5-0
Atleti: 2-1

Total: 7 wins, 1 draw, 1 loss, 26 goals for, 16 against

Chelsea: 13/14 (3rd)
Utd: 0-0
Spurs 1-1
Man City 1-0
Arsenal 0-0
Liverpool 2-0

14/15 (1st)
Man City 1-1
Utd 1-1
Liverpool 2-1
Spurs 3-5
Arsenal 0-0

15/16 (sacked in December)
Man City 0-3
Spurs 0-0
Leicester 1-2

Total: 3 wins, 7 draws, 3 defeats, 12 goals for, 12 against

Man Utd: 16/17 (6th)
Liverpool 0-0
Chelsea 0-4
Man City 0-0
Arsenal 0-2
Spurs 1-2

Total 0 wins, 2 draws, 3 losses, 1 goal for 8 against.


Overall Total:

20 wins, 17 draws, 14 losses, 72 goals for, 58 against.

There is a clear trend downwards sincethe 15/16 season at Chelsea but overall far better than I expected. His record at Inter is interesting, won Serie A twice without a greatrecord away from home in the big games while in Spain his record is very good but only won the league once in 3 season. Yes it's a slow day at work.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

It doesn't because a team on 89 pts didn't win the league.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

We won the league in 2010/11 picking up just 3 points from the away games against Liverpool, City, Chelsea, Arsenal, Spurs and Everton. We drew 0-0 against City and Spurs, bottled a 3-1 lead in stoppage time against Everton to draw 3-3, and lost to the others. In fact, we only won 5 away games all season. We still won the league by 9 points, scored the most goals, and had the best goal difference.

It's a nice situation to be in where we're arguing the toss about being unbeaten 8 games into the season, having only dropped points at Stoke and Liverpool, having scored the second highest amount of goals and conceded the fewest. I'm not going to get too worried about us playing more conservatively away to the better sides in the league while we're near the top of the table.

This time last season we were sat in 7th, 5 points off top, 3 points off 4th, and had already lost twice. We're on the up. Stop bloody moaning.

A-fecking-men.

 

[Treble]

Except for City who finished on 89 points.

Logic is not your strong side.

To be enough means to be a sufficient condition: you win 89 pts, you win the league. United won 89 pts and didn't win the league. Case closed.

The fact that City won 89 pts as well is irrelevant. They do not prove that winning 89 pts is sufficient for wining the title, given that another team on 89 pts doesn't win it.

Do you grasp the point or it is a bit sublte for your brain?

 

[Frank Grimes]

Logic is not your strong side.

To be enough means to be a sufficient condition: you win 89 pts, you win the league. United won 89 pts and didn't win the league. Case closed.

The fact that City won 89 pts as well is irrelevant. They do not prove that winning 89 pts is sufficient for wining the title, given that another team on 89 pts doesn't win it.

Do you grasp the point or it is a bit sublte for your brain?

You seem upset.

 

[Treble]

See above. Logic is not your strong side too.

 

[Yagami]

Of course but it's our big game performances that I think will ultimately cost us either the title or a top 4 place. I'm still not confident of a title challenge.

 

[Treble]

You seem upset.

Stupidity upsets me sometimes.

 

[InfiniteBoredom]

I'd take another 6-1 in every big games if it means we win the league.

However, it doesn't work that way. In 11-12 where we lost the league on GD, we got 6 points from Arsenal, 4 from Chelsea, 4 from Everton, 4 from Pool, 6 from Spurs, and 0 from City. You are bound to feck up somewhere along the way so if your record against the top 6 is abysmal, chances are you won't have enough to get over the line.

 

[Frank Grimes]

Stupidity upsets me sometimes.

You're sure easy to wind up.

 

[Treble]

You're sure easy to wind up.

Sorry if I was rude mate.

 

[Frank Grimes]

Sorry if I was rude mate.

Apology accepted.

 

[Oooh_aaah_cantona]

It's not so clear cut.

Win the league and play in style = Best
Win the league and play shite boring = Acceptable
Don't win the league but play in style = Acceptable
Don't win the league and play shite boring = Most likely scenario and unacceptable

 

[Rusholme Ruffian]

Stupid thread. Everyone would take the mentioned scenario barring the odd fellow. The majority of the posters complaining are most likely critical of our performance and approach to game, and

A) Based on that have doubts about our credentials as potential title winners against a team that goes into these games with a more aggressive and progressive outlook.

B) And/or they feel we could have potentially got a better result or will get better results if we set up differently in this game or do so in future big games.

One can agree or disagree with that deduction but to paint their entire argument as one of mere unacceptable is incorrect.

If anything it's the OP who comes across as lazy in that he disregards or fails identify the nuances of the arguments he's come to disagree with.

Long story short - most people aren't critical of defensive drab merely because they find it dull. It's also because they feel we can do better (I.e get more points) doing it a different way, and may even need to keep pace with City. Which makes the OP come across as a bit weird.

Hey buddy, no-one's forcing you to post in this stupid thread, with its lazy and weird OP!

Not sure why you'd get so put out at a simple hypothetical situation, which is, basically: are United fans happy to win a league the 'Mourinho way'? It's not rocket science. I suspect you're uncomfortable because it forces people to consider that maybe some (not all!) of the criticism after Saturdays game was pretty ridiculous. Saying that I 'fail to identify the nuances of the arguments (I've) come to disagree with' is really missing the point of a hypothetical question (which you're free to answer or not).

 

[Rusholme Ruffian]

See above. Logic is not your strong side too.

Eh? The 89 points were enough to win the league, it was the goals tally that wasn't. Unless I'm missing something here?

 

[Rusholme Ruffian]

City, Liverpool, Arsenal and Spurs away last season. Didn't try to win any of them. Dropped 10 points, picked up 2...Please explain how this is a positive outcome because I'm struggling somewhat. All of these teamms ended up above us, despite alll except City having an inferior squad of players.

It's pretty disingenuous to mention those games without any context. The City, Arsenal and Spurs games were all in the immediate period before our European Semis and final, where Mourinho had completely openly (and correctly as it turned out) opted to concentrate on the Europa League. We had huge defensive injuries.

I'm not sure what the intention is with some United fans who are so desperate to paint everything as a negative with Mourinho. Do you just want to be in a negative funk until the day he steps down? Come on fellas, it's not all bad.

 

[Moonred]

Err I would accept a thrashing in the big away matches if it meant we win the league. But it’s rather unusual to turn that into reality.