Would you be okay with state or state-backed ownership?

[MancunianAngels]

What's the difference between Qatar using immoral cheap/slave labor VS Adidas (who sponsor us) using sweat shops in Asia or Apple using factories where workers are committing suicide because of the awful conditions?

Why do we hold one group more accountable than the other? Why the selective outrage?

The reality is we all contribute to the exploitation of people in poorer countries. Not supporting a Qatari take over because youre upset with their moral compass while you eat a banana picked by exploited farmers and typing your outrage on our Chinese made iPhone is so ironic it's laughable.

Manchester United shouldn't be used by an actual state/country to cover up their crimes. Apple/Adidas are terrible companies but they're not that (at least from the state perspective).

The fact that the only viable football ownership model is seemingly either the Glazers or a state sponsored sportwashing project is utterly ridiculous.That's ignoring that we should look at Chelsea/City and be very worried about what happens when all this goes wrong

My dad protested against Murdoch in 98 and we both stood outside the ground in 05 when the Glazers took over. I essentially removed my financial relationship with the club many years ago. I just hope United's support stands up and at least asks some difficult questions when the Qatari's come in. Once they do, there's no going back.

 

[MancunianAngels]

Absolutely fine with it as I’ve been supporting Utd for 40+ years so there is no god damn way on earth I’m giving that up no matter who owns us and it will always be that way. 18 years of utter cvnts ‘owning’ us I feel we’re due a shit load of goodness, the owners can lop as many heads off as they please if it means no more McTominay masquerading as a Utd midfielder.

What happens when the head chopping results in a Chelsea situation? We need to be careful about jumping into bed with anyone that could have literal skeletons in their closet.

 

[FiiiiveTenHaaags]

What's the difference between Qatar using immoral cheap/slave labor VS Adidas (who sponsor us) using sweat shops in Asia or Apple using factories where workers are committing suicide because of the awful conditions?

Why do we hold one group more accountable than the other? Why the selective outrage?

The reality is we all contribute to the exploitation of people in poorer countries. Not supporting a Qatari take over because youre upset with their moral compass while you eat a banana picked by exploited farmers and typing your outrage on our Chinese made iPhone is so ironic it's laughable.

Yeah exactly. Or American ownership when the whole country’s wealth was built off slavery, legacy of which continues to this day, not to mention the wars, drone strikes on civilians and all that.

Same could be said about UK to a large extent.

There’s not really any clean money in this world so better just to crack on and make the best of a bad situation.

I’m personally more concerned about how we are run in terms of debt, transfers, renovating the stadium etc. As long as we follow the financial rules and avoid a City situation from occurring I’d be fine with Dubai or Qatar at this point.

 

[Mr Smith]

What's the difference between Qatar using immoral cheap/slave labor VS Adidas (who sponsor us) using sweat shops in Asia or Apple using factories where workers are committing suicide because of the awful conditions?

Why do we hold one group more accountable than the other? Why the selective outrage?

The reality is we all contribute to the exploitation of people in poorer countries. Not supporting a Qatari take over because youre upset with their moral compass while you eat a banana picked by exploited farmers and typing your outrage on our Chinese made iPhone is so ironic it's laughable.

There's something about two wrongs not making a right that springs to mind...

 

[Mike Smalling]

Yeah exactly. Or American ownership when the whole country’s wealth was built off slavery, legacy of which continues to this day, not to mention the wars, drone strikes on civilians and all that.

Same could be said about UK to a large extent.

There’s not really any clean money in this world so better just to crack on and make the best of a bad situation.

I’m personally more concerned about how we are run in terms of debt, transfers, renovating the stadium etc. As long as we follow the financial rules and avoid a City situation from occurring I’d be fine with Dubai or Qatar at this point.

For all their faults you can hardly hold the Glazers responsible for slavery or the actions of their government.

In general, this whole "Qatar may be bad, but so is every one of our sponsors, so nothing matters" logic is just complete nihilism. Perhaps some of our sponsors don't have squeaky clean business practices, although I suspect many people just throw out the sweatshop allegation against the likes of Adidas and Nike, even if it sounds like something that would be true in the 90s. There is still a big difference between full ownership of the club and sponsorship. If one of our sponsors ends up in a shitstorm due to their business practices, we could terminate that relationship. If a new state-backed owner is found to violate human rights (not exactly far fetched), we can't do anything except not supporting the club anymore.

Qatar just showed the whole world who they are during the World Cup. I don't want them owning Manchester United, and if they end up doing that, it could be the end of my support for the club.

 

[DRJosh]

At the end of the day it is a matter of what message United’s association with a state owned consortium says about the values of the club and the example it sets for younger football fans and aspirational players. Me buying a shirt from Nike isn’t going to be plastered on the news 24/7.

 

[UpWithRivers]

Absolutely fine with it as I’ve been supporting Utd for 40+ years so there is no god damn way on earth I’m giving that up no matter who owns us and it will always be that way. 18 years of utter cvnts ‘owning’ us I feel we’re due a shit load of goodness, the owners can lop as many heads off as they please if it means no more McTominay masquerading as a Utd midfielder.

Disgusting comment. Makes me ashamed to be a United supporter. I'm surprised you're not banned for such drivel even if I hope that it was said in some twisted jest

 

[Real Name]

Absolutely fine with it as I’ve been supporting Utd for 40+ years so there is no god damn way on earth I’m giving that up no matter who owns us and it will always be that way. 18 years of utter cvnts ‘owning’ us I feel we’re due a shit load of goodness, the owners can lop as many heads off as they please if it means no more McTominay masquerading as a Utd midfielder.

There you are, casually commenting about choping people heads' off.

 

[Real Name]

Yeah exactly. Or American ownership when the whole country’s wealth was built off slavery, legacy of which continues to this day, not to mention the wars, drone strikes on civilians and all that.

Same could be said about UK to a large extent.

There’s not really any clean money in this world so better just to crack on and make the best of a bad situation.

I’m personally more concerned about how we are run in terms of debt, transfers, renovating the stadium etc. As long as we follow the financial rules and avoid a City situation from occurring I’d be fine with Dubai or Qatar at this point.

United is not owned by neither American nor UK government.

 

[OverratedOpinion]

I support Man Utd, I have done so for over 25 years including at a time when we had one of the worst football club owners in the history of the sport. I am not going to stop because some other dickhead owns us, if I see videos with Luke Shaw talking about how great tourism is in Qatar I just won't watch them.

 

[The_Order]

No, absolutely not.

After temebeing the Busby Babes and the romance that has made this club beloved around the world. This can not be how our story ends as a puppet for an oil regime.

 

[Mockney]

United is not owned by either American nor UK government.

It’s exhausting having to keep pointing this out… endlessly

Besides, with everything happening at City now, it’s bonkers that people aren’t even pausing to consider how this could come back on us. People with grotesque unlimited wealth (especially that they haven’t really earned) don’t tend to care about the proper or legal way of doing things.

 

[OverratedOpinion]

No, absolutely not.

After temebeing the Busby Babes and the romance that has made this club beloved around the world. This can not be how our story ends as a puppet for an oil regime.

Which professions are acceptable to you for the person who is willing to buy us for 7 billion?

Unfortunately (and I do mean that) most people who save puppies for a living don't have that amount of money to spend on a football club.

 

[The_Order]

Which professions are acceptable to you for the person who is willing to buy us for 7 billion?

Unfortunately (and I do mean that) most people who save puppies for a living don't have that amount of money to spend on a football club.

That's a strawman argument - attacking a position I never took.

There are no billionaire saints, but a human rights abusing slave state is not the only option.

We all make compromises everyday, the smart device you are using was made with slave labour with materials extracted unethically from the Congo in the worst conditions imaginable.

My point is the club is an institution and doesn't need state sponsorship. The only authenticity the club has died with this.

 

[kaku06]

Our Oppenheimer moment, not happy but have to do it. No choice.

 

[Adisa]

I will not be happy. We will get a lot of flack and we would deserve it.
I will still support the team though.

 

[OverratedOpinion]

That's a strawman argument - attacking a position I never took.

There are no billionaire saints, but a human rights abusing slave state is not the only option.

We all make compromises everyday, the smart device you are using was made with slave labour with materials extracted unethically from the Congo in the worst conditions imaginable.

My point is the club is an institution and doesn't need state sponsorship. The only authenticity the club has died with this.

It is not a strawman argument. You just did not think it through, the club requires an owner who would you be happy with?

It is a simple question.

 

[Snowjoe]

No thanks, have a few years owned by hideous people followed by a big FFP investigation, not for me.

 

[OverratedOpinion]

No thanks, have a few years owned by hideous people followed by a big FFP investigation, not for me.

Why would we have a financial fair play investigation?

 

[Hal9000]

Why would we have a financial fair play investigation?

Because City and PSG are constantly breaching FFP so he assumes we would be aswell. Although i think the recent punishments and the City investigation will put off most clubs repeating the trick. Look at Newcastle, did not excatly throw the Saudi money around.

 

[The_Order]

It is not a strawman argument. You just did not think it through, the club requires an owner who would you be happy with?

It is a simple question.

That's a silly question.

Why would I not want owners I would be happy with?

What are you on about?

 

[OverratedOpinion]

That's a silly question.

Why would I not want owners I would be happy with?

What are you on about?

Must be weird not being able to respond to a simple question without insults. It sounds silly because it is highlighting a silly point of view.

So you are living in a fantasy? Okay. I will not hold my breath for the perfect owners who tick all of my moral boxes whilst also having 7 billion to spend on a sports team.

 

[OverratedOpinion]

Because City and PSG are constantly breaching FFP so he assumes we would be aswell. Although i think the recent punishments and the City investigation will put off most clubs repeating the trick. Look at Newcastle, did not excatly throw the Saudi money around.

They started from a position where they were basically making no money. We have managed to be one of the biggest spenders in Europe since the Glazers came in despite having over a billion drained from our club and still not gotten into trouble with FFP. We are a completely different entity to City, PSG or Newcastle.

 

[Hal9000]

That's a strawman argument - attacking a position I never took.

There are no billionaire saints, but a human rights abusing slave state is not the only option.

We all make compromises everyday, the smart device you are using was made with slave labour with materials extracted unethically from the Congo in the worst conditions imaginable.

My point is the club is an institution and doesn't need state sponsorship. The only authenticity the club has died with this.

The club and the institutions they were died a long time, with the growth of the Premier League/Champions league saw to that. The big clubs (apart from maybe those in Germany where tickets are like £20) are no longer tied to the working class roots, we are no longer the institution that was founded by railway depot workers.

Clubs are sanitised, marketed towards those outside the UK and built to attract tourists and executives to show off their wealth of other executives. Think the redevelopment of Old Trafford is for us? Think the everyday Spurs fans care about micro brews and cheese rooms in the new stadium?

For me the identity of Man Utd has never been tied to who owns us, it's the player who take to the pitch, the manager and how they play. Anything beyond that, football as it was, died a long time ago.

 

[MancunianAngels]

The club and the institutions they were died a long time, with the growth of the Premier League/Champions league saw to that. The big clubs (apart from maybe those in Germany where tickets are like £20) are no longer tied to the working class roots, we are no longer the institution that was founded by railway depot workers.

Clubs are sanitised, marketed towards those outside the UK and built to attract tourists and executives to show off their wealth of other executives. Think the redevelopment of Old Trafford is for us? Think the everyday Spurs fans care about micro brews and cheese rooms in the new stadium?

For me the identity of Man Utd has never been tied to who owns us, it's the player who take to the pitch, the manager and how they play. Anything beyond that, football as it was, died a long time ago.

It doesn't have to be like this though. It's only like this before everyone decided they're ok with it.

Let's at the very least not be apologetic about our new owners, even if they do buy us loads of shiny new players. Let's ask questions, let's protest when needed.

This is clearly not a solely anti Qatar thing like many are saying on here. People forget the mass protests that happened in 98 when Murdoch was linked. At that time, Martin Edwards was disliked by most reds but most hated the idea of Murdoch owning the club.

 

[Tom Cato]

What's the difference between Qatar using immoral cheap/slave labor VS Adidas (who sponsor us) using sweat shops in Asia or Apple using factories where workers are committing suicide because of the awful conditions?

Why do we hold one group more accountable than the other? Why the selective outrage?

The reality is we all contribute to the exploitation of people in poorer countries. Not supporting a Qatari take over because youre upset with their moral compass while you eat a banana picked by exploited farmers and typing your outrage on our Chinese made iPhone is so ironic it's laughable.

I know that you think you made a good point, and partially you did because workers rights in China are near non-existent and people do use Adidas products. I dont because its wildly overpriced, but I do manufacture products in Chinese factories and actually travel to source new manufacturing plants now and then, and what I see is not always good. I also dont use an iPhone. Samsung phones have not been manufactured in China for some years now.

The true depth of the moral right and wrong here cant really be reached in a post that is written in 3 minutes, but Ill just say that while your argument has its merits, its also not comparable for the following reasons:

The outrage is not about manufactured products, or even workers rigths. Workers rights is the least of the problems surrounding a Qatar ownership of the club.

Manchester United is THE biggest brand name from the UK on a global scale. The global fanbase counts an aproximate 659 MILLION people. Thats nearly 8% of the total human population. It is one of the biggest brand names in all of sports on a global scale.

English football is the biggest cultural export, and arguably the biggest part of the national identity when you describe a single element that can united the nation. Manchester Unted is a institution with a deeply rooted heritage in the local community, and smaller markets that have generations that grew up watching English football on TV. I am one of them. Some of my happiest childhood memories is watching Manchester United on TV in the 90s with my dad. All in all, its not "just a club", its one of the first things people will immediately recognise as part of the country.

We are not discussing taking sponsorship money, buying products or even arguing that workers rights standards are met outside of Europe, because they very rarely are. What we are discussing is the state of Qatar controlling the biggest sporting institution in Britain

As you probably know, Manchester United have a womens team. Women who enjoy the same liberties as men because we all live in a society that tells us that we are equal. As we are. In Qatar, women can not study, travel abroad, find jobs, get reproductive healthcare or even marry without the permission of their guardian, or later in life from their husband. Women in Qatar are both free, and prisoners.

In Qatar, same sex relations between men is still a crime, punishable with jailtime up to 7 years. In the UK, around 1.5% of the population identify as gay or lesbian. Which means that on average, nearly 1000 people at Old Trafford week in and week out gets to go to a game, knowing full well that the club owners think of them as moral dregs that should not be allowed to love who they love, and would have them imprisoned if hey had the option to.

Freedom of press and freedom of assembly in Qatar is severly limited. Even during the Qatar world cup you had global press that were stopped and apprehanded by police, even during the biggest event of the country carrying press badges, they just could not help themselves. Do you imagine its anywhere near better when the worlds cameras are away from Qatar?

Will any ownership of the club affect me? Of course it wont. I will still watch the players on the pitch. Just like every united fan that marched with yellow and green, yet still bought season tickets. You can still watch the thing you love while being very vocal and upfront about your disdain for other aspects of it. Its how adults should react to things they do not agree with. You dont punish everyone, for the transgression of others.

The last thing I want is to see a Sheikh at Old Trafford, the very Theater of Dreams on a Champions League nigth, knowing full well what type of society he represents, one that shares very little with the institution they seek to take control over.

 

[Zed 101]

I know that you think you made a good point, and partially you did because workers rights in China are near non-existent and people do use Adidas products. I dont because its wildly overpriced, but I do manufacture products in Chinese factories and actually travel to source new manufacturing plants now and then, and what I see is not always good. I also dont use an iPhone. Samsung phones have not been manufactured in China for some years now.

The true depth of the moral right and wrong here cant really be reached in a post that is written in 3 minutes, but Ill just say that while your argument has its merits, its also not comparable for the following reasons:

The outrage is not about manufactured products, or even workers rigths. Workers rights is the least of the problems surrounding a Qatar ownership of the club.

Manchester United is THE biggest brand name from the UK on a global scale. The global fanbase counts an aproximate 659 MILLION people. Thats nearly 8% of the total human population. It is one of the biggest brand names in all of sports on a global scale.

English football is the biggest cultural export, and arguably the biggest part of the national identity when you describe a single element that can united the nation. Manchester Unted is a institution with a deeply rooted heritage in the local community, and smaller markets that have generations that grew up watching English football on TV. I am one of them. Some of my happiest childhood memories is watching Manchester United on TV in the 90s with my dad. All in all, its not "just a club", its one of the first things people will immediately recognise as part of the country.

We are not discussing taking sponsorship money, buying products or even arguing that workers rights standards are met outside of Europe, because they very rarely are. What we are discussing is the state of Qatar controlling the biggest sporting institution in Britain

As you probably know, Manchester United have a womens team. Women who enjoy the same liberties as men because we all live in a society that tells us that we are equal. As we are. In Qatar, women can not study, travel abroad, find jobs, get reproductive healthcare or even marry without the permission of their guardian, or later in life from their husband. Women in Qatar are both free, and prisoners.

In Qatar, same sex relations between men is still a crime, punishable with jailtime up to 7 years. In the UK, around 1.5% of the population identify as gay or lesbian. Which means that on average, nearly 1000 people at Old Trafford week in and week out gets to go to a game, knowing full well that the club owners think of them as moral dregs that should not be allowed to love who they love, and would have them imprisoned if hey had the option to.

Freedom of press and freedom of assembly in Qatar is severly limited. Even during the Qatar world cup you had global press that were stopped and apprehanded by police, even during the biggest event of the country carrying press badges, they just could not help themselves. Do you imagine its anywhere near better when the worlds cameras are away from Qatar?

Will any ownership of the club affect me? Of course it wont. I will still watch the players on the pitch. Just like every united fan that marched with yellow and green, yet still bought season tickets. You can still watch the thing you love while being very vocal and upfront about your disdain for other aspects of it. Its how adults should react to things they do not agree with. You dont punish everyone, for the transgression of others.

The last thing I want is to see a Sheikh at Old Trafford, the very Theater of Dreams on a Champions League nigth, knowing full well what type of society he represents, one that shares very little with the institution they seek to take control over.

Whilst I cannot argue against the sentiment and intentions of your post 2 things:

1) How do you expect to affect change if you do not engage, sportswashing is a negative for sure, but it can also be a catalyst for change, it is engagement which can perhaps promote positive developments.

2) To be clear I do not condone or agree with the things you have mentioned or the human rights issues that we see around the world, including the UK, Europe and right now some very worrying things within America...

However as a proud Brit who studies history one thing I believe is that we should have learned from colonialism that we do not have a divine right to judge or more importantly impose our system of beliefs and morals on another culture, if the vox populi of the Qataris is for change and reform I support them but as an outsider looking in it is none of my business, quite frankly it is none of the business of anyone who does not live and/or work within Qatar.

When you strive to limit the rights of a country to make its own cultural choices even if those choices would seem to be bad ones by your perspective then you are guilty of ignorance and arrogance.

 

[Maticmaker]

Even in these enlightened days I don't think most United supporters care who owns the club, so long as its up there, entertaining to watch, challenging for and winning trophies and regularly seeing off our rivals. "Glory Glory Man United" has not been our theme tune for decades for nothing, we are an unashamed Glory/trophy hunting club!
I also think most supporters know they can do nothing about who owns the club, unless they are prepared to stop supporting the club, return their season tickets, stop buying merchandise from the club, etc. and even then, they know that just like 'Spartacus' - there will be thousands to take their place.

In 1992 the Premier League was formed with the good intention to make money , much more money out of the professional game, certainly at its highest level and thereby improve the game. Like lots of other industries offering potential but suffering under funding, and wanting to install the 'profit motive', the law of unintended consequence occurred. Owners became more than a handful of faithful shareholders and local businesses and 'top end' English League Professional Football went global, attracting people to ownership who; either wanted to make even more money, or become the 'Puppet Master' or the play thing of super rich Oligarchs, or were the front for State sponsored investments , whose ambition required 'front end' propaganda, on the World stage.

There is no 'going back', the next stage of development will be the Super League, but next time they launch it will be done proper, and be thought through very carefully and make sure club owners and mass media outlets like Amazon Prime/ Disney +/etc are all onboard. It is true that the recent 'test case' project was sent packing, but those behind it learned a lot... and they will be back, because there is even more money to be made and fans will still have no say and will have to watch at lower levels, if they want 'pure football', rather than a three-ringed Circus

The road to hell is paved with good intentions

 

[Abizzz]

What's the difference between Qatar using immoral cheap/slave labor VS Adidas (who sponsor us) using sweat shops in Asia or Apple using factories where workers are committing suicide because of the awful conditions?

Why do we hold one group more accountable than the other? Why the selective outrage?

The reality is we all contribute to the exploitation of people in poorer countries. Not supporting a Qatari take over because youre upset with their moral compass while you eat a banana picked by exploited farmers and typing your outrage on our Chinese made iPhone is so ironic it's laughable.

So say I robbed you in the street tomorrow. Would you be a hypocrite for complaining about having all your evil stuff made by impoverished hands being taken from you?

 

[Tom Cato]

Whilst I cannot argue against the sentiment and intentions of your post 2 things:

1) How do you expect to affect change if you do not engage, sportswashing is a negative for sure, but it can also be a catalyst for change, it is engagement which can perhaps promote positive developments.

2) To be clear I do not condone or agree with the things you have mentioned or the human rights issues that we see around the world, including the UK, Europe and right now some very worrying things within America...

However as a proud Brit who studies history one thing I believe is that we should have learned from colonialism that we do not have a divine right to judge or more importantly impose our system of beliefs and morals on another culture, if the vox populi of the Qataris is for change and reform I support them but as an outsider looking in it is none of my business, quite frankly it is none of the business of anyone who does not live and/or work within Qatar.

When you strive to limit the rights of a country to make its own cultural choices even if those choices would seem to be bad ones by your perspective then you are guilty of ignorance and arrogance.

I think I added all I wanted in my first post, so Ill just briefly adress this last sentence.

I dont agree that anyone is striving to limit the rights of a country at all. Maybe as consequence through state takeover protest, but my grief in particular comes with what that type of country represents: The removal of choice. Women do not ge to choose to work where they want, take the education they want, do what they want. Human beings do not get to freely live and love the way they want in bodies they are born into.

My stance is that I vehemently reject the introduction of that kind of representation of something that is dear to me, where there has previously been none. Not owning a football club does not remove Qatars territorial rights or impact their rule of land. The problem is neither that a lot of people in Qatar and everywhere else on the Arabian Peninsula feel the same way about their way of life that we do. It is that those who do not want that life, does not get to choose for themselves what they want.

If disagreeing with choices that seek to limit other peoples free experience as human beings in their sparse time on earth can be considered remotely wrong, then I am more than proud to be both ignorant, and arrogant.

 

[Hal9000]

It doesn't have to be like this though. It's only like this before everyone decided they're ok with it.

Let's at the very least not be apologetic about our new owners, even if they do buy us loads of shiny new players. Let's ask questions, let's protest when needed.

This is clearly not a solely anti Qatar thing like many are saying on here. People forget the mass protests that happened in 98 when Murdoch was linked. At that time, Martin Edwards was disliked by most reds but most hated the idea of Murdoch owning the club.

Even if people are not ok with it, there is not a lot we can do. Which is why i am saying the institutions these clubs were, as working class club, connected to the city and their people are long dead. They've outgrown is. Ultimatly the everyday fan is along for the ride, so it's easier to only look at the pitch and matters that effect what happens on the pitch.

Yes we protested against Murdoch, but that's why it did not go through. We protested and continued to protest against the Glazers, people left to set up another club, yet here we are with a season ticket waiting list that can fill the stadium twice.

I understand people's concerns about Qatar, i share them to. I also know that workers rights have been reformed and continue to be reformed for years now, but it's not going to happen over night. Womens and Homosexual views are also a challenge, how ever i also understand that their laws are tied to conservative religious values.

 

[Handré1990]

What's the difference between Qatar using immoral cheap/slave labor VS Adidas (who sponsor us) using sweat shops in Asia or Apple using factories where workers are committing suicide because of the awful conditions?

Why do we hold one group more accountable than the other? Why the selective outrage?

The reality is we all contribute to the exploitation of people in poorer countries. Not supporting a Qatari take over because youre upset with their moral compass while you eat a banana picked by exploited farmers and typing your outrage on our Chinese made iPhone is so ironic it's laughable.

Yeah, what about (insert whichever whataboutism works).

Don’t remember if I’ve replied already, but ultimately, it’s a game, and it doesn’t really cater to the working class population anymore considering the price for a ticket now anyway. So I’d simply stop watching and following the club. Noone would notice anyhow, I stopped paying for football as soon as the price for PL and CL reached about £100 a month in Norway (maybe even a bit more now).

 

[tomaldinho1]

Yeah, what about (insert whichever whataboutism works).

Don’t remember if I’ve replied already, but ultimately, it’s a game, and it doesn’t really cater to the working class population anymore considering the price for a ticket now anyway. So I’d simply stop watching and following the club. Noone would notice anyhow, I stopped paying for football as soon as the price for PL and CL reached about £100 a month in Norway (maybe even a bit more now).

Exactly. Anything, and I mean anything, can be argued for with whataboutism because we live in a world that's corrupt to its core and has been since records began - every authority we've ever known be it governmental, religious, economic has proven itself completely untrustworthy and so we either stay in this perennial loop of self destructive caveman logic or we don't. Personally I know my actions (should Qatar, or any state, come in and buy United and I stop following the team) won't make a difference but I'll be doing it anyway because it's what I believe is right.

I've seen people called 'holier than though' for saying similar on here but it's just a different opinion and the most vocal and vociferous posters arguing for this seem like they are trying desperately to justify it to themselves as ok. We all know it's not ok, we all know it's completely against the values that the club tries to represent and was built on so it shouldn't be surprising some fans aren't happy with it. If you decide you can live with it and just want to see the team win, each to their own.

 

[Abusian]

Whilst I cannot argue against the sentiment and intentions of your post 2 things:

1) How do you expect to affect change if you do not engage, sportswashing is a negative for sure, but it can also be a catalyst for change, it is engagement which can perhaps promote positive developments.

2) To be clear I do not condone or agree with the things you have mentioned or the human rights issues that we see around the world, including the UK, Europe and right now some very worrying things within America...

However as a proud Brit who studies history one thing I believe is that we should have learned from colonialism that we do not have a divine right to judge or more importantly impose our system of beliefs and morals on another culture, if the vox populi of the Qataris is for change and reform I support them but as an outsider looking in it is none of my business, quite frankly it is none of the business of anyone who does not live and/or work within Qatar.

When you strive to limit the rights of a country to make its own cultural choices even if those choices would seem to be bad ones by your perspective then you are guilty of ignorance and arrogance.

If the Qatari people were making those choices I’d agree with you but by any measure, Qatar is not a free country. Out of 165 jurisdictions, it ranked 128th in last year’s Human Freedom Index. So are Qataris really making those cultural choices?

I worked in the region for years and know a lot of locals. They’re fabulously hospitable and great fun, but not free. They are social conservatives for sure, but would love reform. Sadly, they live in a authoritarian theocracy where dissent is punished. And some of the punishments are brutal. From Wiki: ‘Apostasy is a crime punishable by the death penalty in Qatar. Blasphemy is punishable by up to seven years in prison and promoting any religion other than Islam can be punished by up to 10 years in prison. Homosexuality is a crime punishable in sharia by the death penalty for Muslims, though in Qatar the penalty for consenting males is up to 5 years in prison.’

I’ve been a United fan for over fifty years and personally, would not want us to be owned by that regime - or a similar one - because they represent the absolute antithesis of my most cherished personal values. I’ve travelled a lot in my life and have lived in many places where people aren’t free and the law is not fair or just, so I have come to value those things more than anything else.

I’ve been falling out of love with the politics of the game for quite a while now and I suspect this would tip me over. My emotional ties to the club would be damaged in a way even the Glazers couldn’t manage.

 

[jeff_goldblum]

When you strip away the fluff, the argument some are making in this thread is basically:

"You've resigned yourself to one shitty thing being the status quo because it's become too entrenched to do much about, so why try and stop this new shitty thing becoming entrenched as well?"

The answer is blindingly obvious, which is why people find the need to tack on all the nonsense to make it seem like not wanting to wake up to two people shitting in your bed instead of one is somehow unfair on the second shitter.

 

[Eriku]

If the Qatari people were making those choices I’d agree with you but by any measure, Qatar is not a free country. Out of 165 jurisdictions, it ranked 128th in last year’s Human Freedom Index. So are Qataris really making those cultural choices?

I worked in the region for years and know a lot of locals. They’re fabulously hospitable and great fun, but not free. They are social conservatives for sure, but would love reform. Sadly, they live in a authoritarian theocracy where dissent is punished. And some of the punishments are brutal. From Wiki: ‘Apostasy is a crime punishable by the death penalty in Qatar. Blasphemy is punishable by up to seven years in prison and promoting any religion other than Islam can be punished by up to 10 years in prison. Homosexuality is a crime punishable in sharia by the death penalty for Muslims, though in Qatar the penalty for consenting males is up to 5 years in prison.’

I’ve been a United fan for over fifty years and personally, would not want us to be owned by that regime - or a similar one - because they represent the absolute antithesis of my most cherished personal values. I’ve travelled a lot in my life and have lived in many places where people aren’t free and the law is not fair or just, so I have come to value those things more than anything else.

I’ve been falling out of love with the politics of the game for quite a while now and I suspect this would tip me over. My emotional ties to the club would be damaged in a way even the Glazers couldn’t manage.

I totally second what you and @Tom Cato posted. If we’re being used to gloss over the shadier part of a regime at odds with basic human rights then I’m not sure I can keep considering myself a fan of the club. Astounded (but also not) to see so many people happy to soothe their conscience with whataboutism.

 

[Levi1]

Don't want state ownership. The club would forever be associated with anything the state does. Especially dont want the kinds of states that have the motivation to buy a club.

In fact, the only thing worse than state ownership is private ownership...

 

[Steve Bruce]

At the end of the day, football has long sold it's soul. It's not an ideal world by any stretch of the imagination and I'm sure no matter who owns United regardless of where they are from whether it's a royal family, investment group or a very rich man there's going to be something about them someone will find offensive and will take some sort of moral high ground.

I support Manchester United Football Club not the owners whether it was Martin Edwards, Glaziers or whoever takes us over. If they run MUFC properly and gives the right investment in the right areas and makes us successful, I am a happy man.

In an ideal world, I would be worth £100b and be able to get these rats out of our club myself. I would get the best in class throughout the club to run the club and put the funding into the club that's needed to progress for years to come, but unfortunately I don't have any money so I am powerless to change anything, I just hope for the best whoever our new owners will be

 

[dannyrhinos89]

No, absolutely not.

After temebeing the Busby Babes and the romance that has made this club beloved around the world. This can not be how our story ends as a puppet for an oil regime.

what if they just took a back seat and got rid of the huge debt, spent much need millions on improving Old Trafford and Carrington but didn’t get involved much on the football side of things.

I still think if the improved the finances within the club we wouldn’t need a huge cash injection on transfers like City and Chelsea.

 

[DickDastardly]

Do you do due dilligence on everything you support or buy?

You buy Nike shoes? You do know they have factories in poor countries and are using people there?

You buy cars? Petrol them?
You do know that the petrol companies are rotten to the core?

Chocolate? Eat them? Fair trade ones only or?

Eat meat? Eggs? Grass fed? Sustainable?

Read books? Buy them off Amazon?

You get the drill.