Calling people dodgy, that was not my argument, it was that posters. They have outdated laws, I agree but calling them dodgie is a silly imo.
Would you be okay with state or state-backed ownership?
- Thread starter sullydnl
- Start date
Countries shouldn’t own football clubs. It’s against both my moral and sporting values. Insinuating that it’s purely because of the Middle Eastern connection is really fecking tiresome… technically this thread is just about “state backed ownership”
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Poster #1: I’d like to see more rotation of the front three - would be great if Pellestri could get more minutes.
Poster #2: Ideally I’d like if the club isn’t owned by a man who views woman as second class citizens.
You - ah yes. Two people who want the best for my club arguing about the important details.
a few posts ago you agreed they had no regard for human life but now you’re not happy with them being called dodgy)
Right. Now I have your attention.
Do you think that the Emir of Qatar owns, all the middle east? They all have very very similar laws?
Do you know when the laws were made? YOu are saying the current Emir made the laws?
No, No, No and No.
an impossible discussion the world is so intrinsically connected now the right thing which in this case is non state owners of such regime would be a tiny moral battle won only for you to tweet your joy on the device that comes from slavery
With topics such as this it needs to be confined just to the subject of football and not the whole world otherwise its just pointless finger pointing, whataboutism and hypocrites.
With topics such as this it needs to be confined just to the subject of football and not the whole world otherwise its just pointless finger pointing, whataboutism and hypocrites.
There is alot of people who have no regard to human life, alot of them are rich. China, Russia, Middle east, the way they treat their workers, I do not agree with, that does not mean I think they are dodgie.
The funny thing is you only care about this cause of Manutd. I bet you wear Nike and Addidas clothing, which was manufactured in countries where human rights is a big issue.
There's plenty of dodgy people I don't know personally. Didn't know knowing me personally was a prerequisite, but now I certainly feel empowered.
this is not the "gotcha" moment you think it is. Saying that you don't want this kind of ownership for ManUtd doesn't make you a hypocrite just because you're powerless against human rights violations somewhere else
Why are people saying Qatar ownership would make future success feel hollow? Do people think we’ll just spend £200M every window and stockpile the best players in the world? I can’t see that happening.
I wouldn't stop watching or supporting United if an ME owner buys the club but the fact that our owners will be archaic bigots (even if they aren't, the religion/religious text they follow is archaic and I am not going to apologize for saying that) even in the 21st century will always prick me in the back of my mind. I can't control who buys or doesn't buy the club, I also don't spend any money directly or indirectly which goes to the club or its owners by buying any of the club's merch or anything and if ME owners take over I am definitely not going to buy sponsor's products or anything like and I will speak out and criticize the owners more openly for any mistakes they make with running the club. But tbh I prefer someone like Ratcliffe to take over, no owner will be perfect but I would not want anyone who promotes a religion that mostly treats its women like slaves and doesn't tolerate anyone or anything indifferent to it.
It's not a got you moment. It's questioning the hypocrisy.this is not the "gotcha" moment you think it is. Saying that you don't want this kind of ownership for ManUtd doesn't make you a hypocrite just because you're powerless against human rights violations somewhere else
Poweless? Just dont buy the product of those in human rights violation. But I get it, its not in the media, so you dont care where your clothes are manufactured or what rights have been violated, turn a blind eye to it.
Qatari state ownership is far from ideal but I don’t see any realistic good options right now. US private equity funds are hardly shining lights of humanity. As we can’t do anything to influence the decision, wait and see seems to be the best approach. If the club becomes too tacky (signing big names with no thought for squad cohesion, undermining the manager, making Phil Jones wear a Qatari cloak when he lifts the premier league trophy), then I’ll probably walk away. But I wouldn’t feel alienated enough to give up on day one.
you just assume that people don't care about the other stuff because it suits your narrative. And even if they don't, it's not hypocrisy either. People are free to draw the line wherever they see fit.
and let's not talk about hypocrisy ... if there's hypocrisy here, then it's people bashing PSG and City for a decade only to turn around and chant for Qatari ownership at United.
This. I completely agree with this. Anyone who says you are a hypocrite for not wanting state or state-backed or ME ownership is just doing whataboutery.this is not the "gotcha" moment you think it is. Saying that you don't want this kind of ownership for ManUtd doesn't make you a hypocrite just because you're powerless against human rights violations somewhere else
I am opposed to state-backed ownership, but I am even more opposed to our opponents having that - and we dont
Right, it suits my narrative, what narrative btw?
I am not saying that is the only ownership I want, but its fine, you accuse others of "narrative" but it suits yours so fine.
I said, I repeat, I wouldn't mind ME ownership, that is not to say, that's the only one I want.
And that’s completely your choice, but your statement in the prior post didn’t really reflect that. You were stating it as a fact.
Replace it with match fixing and probably still works
granted, the narrative point was a bit unfair on my end. But the whataboutism you brought to the table is exactly what we're going to see from a lot of fans if this goes through ... to justify it to others, but probably also to convince themselves that it ain't so bad after all. "What about the dodgy stuff of other clubs?", "What about human rights violations in other countries?" and so on.
Yeah feck the scousers taking them
It's an interesting one how would people feel if they went and bought liverpool and they dominated european football for the next 25 years.
I'm sure loads would be playing the moral card, i guarantee that's exactly what they are saying about us on their forums right now.
We know if the shoe was on the opposite foot it would be a complete 180, not by all but a decent portion.
Let's not derails this thread into a discussion of MBS's "shenanigans" with having ordered the murder and dismemberment of a journalist who annoyed him.
If that strip wasn't dated 2016, would've sworn it was a dig at current Elon
Yeah agreed. Its going to happen though isn't it, its a bit like your narrative point. When it comes to political things, there will be alot of people who meet eye to eye.
What I see however; is the progress.
So lets take UK for example, we have laws that we think we need, human rights, etc...
Middle East, in most cases we think are behind? correct?
Now, what I have seen over the last 15 years in the Middle East is change, a diversification of laws. I give you the perfect example, Dubai.
15 years ago, Dubai was probably similar to the other countries in the region, you go to Dubai now, its changed, its modernised.
We have also seen change in Abu Dabhi, Qatar are following suit. Saudi too, they have womens football teams.
There will be no owner putting up £5bn plus the money we need invested, that is clean money.
Unashamedly, I'd be fine with it.
Look at what the US has done to parts of the ME, I still go there on holiday. The UK has a lot blood on its hands, I'm not trying to emigrate.
Good luck trying to find someone that is willing to part with £5 billion who saves puppies for a living.
When the team is on the pitch, and the crowd is roaring, the last thing on my mind is who owns the club. If you decide to walk away from a club that you have loved all your life because of who it's owned by - fair play to you. I won't be. Owners come and go, this club isn't going anywhere.
Look at what the US has done to parts of the ME, I still go there on holiday. The UK has a lot blood on its hands, I'm not trying to emigrate.
Good luck trying to find someone that is willing to part with £5 billion who saves puppies for a living.
When the team is on the pitch, and the crowd is roaring, the last thing on my mind is who owns the club. If you decide to walk away from a club that you have loved all your life because of who it's owned by - fair play to you. I won't be. Owners come and go, this club isn't going anywhere.
Yet lapped up City & Newcastle takeovers didn't he
How delightfully colonial.
Modernised in terms of technology and architecture, yes. For a lot of non-gay (and male) tourists it probably feels very modernised culturally, too. However punishment for homosexuality still ranges from 10 years in prison, fines, deportation and even the death penalty. For women, the approval of their guardian is still required for a lot of things we'd consider absolute human rights. R*pe victims are still being imprisoned under the laws against extramarital sex. Could go on and on. I think the case of Princess Latifa is a good example of how modern Dubai really is.
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Okay with it? Yes... I am not going to stop watching us play or supporting the club, most likely, based on the new owners... so I can say I'd be okay with it.
would I prefer an alternative? Absolutely.
would I prefer an alternative? Absolutely.
Yeah Dubai, for all its development over the years, is still a pretty plastic place devoid of character. Its light years behind Beirut or even Amman in this sense.
Only tech companies can compete financially
Yeah. I'd rather it doesn't happen. I also won't stop watching football or stop supporting United if it happens. It's a case of the inevitable unfortunately, but football is still my sport and passion, so what can you do. I dont care about success or anything like that all that much, I'd rather we just do things the right way and however far that takes us so be it.
If you think that its only modernised in terms of technology and architecture, then that is your opinion.
I guess the following laws are technology and architecture?
Decriminalizing out-of-wedlock relations
Alcohol is now allowed
Women can wear what they want now
With the Middle East, its not just changing laws, its changing the culture too, this takes years, its not something that can happen overnight.
What we have seen is progress. People always look at the negatives, acting as if the West is perfect.
As someone who lived in the middle east my whole life, I can tell you that progress is definitely happening, but it's gonna take time. Most middle east dictators currently aren't overly conservative, but societies are still largely religious, and things like gay rights are few decades away from happening in most Arab countries. Democracy isn't there and that will always slow down progress, but it's there.
I really believe that whether a state is good or bad it's irrelevant, because even if we're owned by New Zealand you still have to question why does a country need to own a football club. It's just wrong from all angles. We don't even need it, we can fully remain competitive without a sugar daddy.