Would you be okay with state or state-backed ownership?

Pscholes18

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Not really, but they are the only ones who have money to burn and give feck all about profit.
 

Big Andy

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Take that sweet sweet oil, rub your fist in it and plunge it deep into my arse. Buy all the players, build us a new stadium and win those European Cups year on year.

Who says no to that? Nobody does.
 

BluesJr

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Take that sweet sweet oil, rub your fist in it and plunge it deep into my arse. Buy all the players, build us a new stadium and win those European Cups year on year.

Who says no to that? Nobody does.
Correct.
 

Foxbatt

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Our government is a disgrace and has nothing whatsoever to do with Manchester United.
I’ve never voted for the scum in charge and there is very little that the person on the street can do about the dictatorship we are under.
Too many just accept the status quo for there to be any meaningful protest.
Isn't that the problem? Especially in the UK? If the majority of the British people don't accept those kinds of "scums" as you say then either there is a real dictatorship or the majority of the people accept it .
They accept it so much that they re elected someone who has illegally invaded a foreign country and helped it being bombed to the stone age .
It's more than United of course. You either mix politics and sports or don't mix it at all. When I say you I don't mean personally you. People who do. They can't pick and choose.
Yes the British Government don't own United. But the British people do own their government.
 

CloneMC16

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Would prefer to avoid, but the chance of finding a non-state backed owner that will prioritise winning over a profit is basically zero. I want the club to compete for trophies.

Realistically, yes. We already have City and Newcastle state owned. Liverpool could be next. Turning it down is going to hurt the club in the medium to long term. Unless we're happy to be in a fight for 4th every season. I will be happy to call myself a hypocrite on this issue.
 

MZX7

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See, this entire wall of text is completely destroyed in one sentence.

I don't want the UK government to own Man Utd for PR purposes either.
The write-up was for people whining about human rights violations in Oil Backed nations and about not watching the Qatar World Cup.

I just wanted to remind them of the double-standards.
 

MZX7

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A lot of whataboutism but the point is sound enough - to me the political side doesn't matter as most people have very little understanding of politics and history (as we see highlighted r.e. Qatar over and over again).

What I object to is the oil states pumping unlimited amounts of funds into clubs using dodgy sponsorships. It ruins the idea of a footballing contest, which is what underpins the game at the end of the day. If lower teams have no way to build their clubs like say Spurs did because the top spots are always occupied by literal countries owning clubs then football is dead. City and PSG are already stain enough on football as it is.
Yep, agree with that. Just tired of people whining on the thread about how some countries are more evil and why they aren't watching the World Cup. I woupd support them fully if they were consistent with their activism with regards to all issues.
 

Wibble

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I think it might be the end of me as a United supporter in any meaningful way. I'm not sure I love the club the way I did (nor football for that matter) already and this might be the final nail in the coffin. I guess we will see.
 

MZX7

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What is this mess of a post? "Everyone else is cnut, so you dont get to say anything about these cnuts over here."? Is that really your position? Who speaks for Grenfell? Eh, fecking loads of people, mate. Thats why we haven't stopped hearing about it. Thats why cladding up and down the country has been ripped out and replaced. No one here is pretending our governments are all saints doing gods good work. We all take great issue with many things that they do. We always have, which is why we all know what they have done. And you wont hear anyone but a bellend defend them. But we aren't looking to have the tory government own us. That would be as much a deal breaker as some Dubai outfit.

This latest bullshit about hypocrisy is just noise to drown out the legitimate issues that people have with Qatar and its stance on human rights. What Ozil did has nothing to do with any other player and what they do. So theres no hypocrisy there anyway.

Theres how things are, and then theres taking the piss. Being another club to sports wash some shitty countries past wrong doings is nothing I want anything to do with. You do you though, and excuse the actions of cnuts just because theres other cnuts doing cnuty stuff.
All I'm saying is when you didn't whine about China, when you didn't whine about Russia, your whining about Qatar suddenly becomes highly questionable.

Be consistent if you want to play a SJW. Otherwise your double standards are laid bare for all to see.
 

Wibble

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I woupd support them fully if they were consistent with their activism with regards to all issues.
On that basis nobody would support any activism of any sort as nobody is 100% consistent, even if they want to be. I mean who would support a World Cup in Russia now but most of us weren't that bothered at the time even if we probably should have been? And sometimes there is a threshold that is passed that escalates feelings. In this case it isn't just the repressive laws, disregard for worker deaths, the undoubted bribery that got them the Olympics, the change of dates and the fact that we have awarded a World Cup to a hot footballing powerhouse equivalent of Anglesey, that has snowballed into the general distaste for Qatar and this World Cup.
 

Wibble

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Take that sweet sweet oil, rub your fist in it and plunge it deep into my arse. Buy all the players, build us a new stadium and win those European Cups year on year.

Who says no to that? Nobody does.
Well maybe one.
 

MZX7

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On that basis nobody would support any activism of any sort as nobody is 100% consistent, even if they want to be. I mean who would support a World Cup in Russia now but most of us weren't that bothered at the time even if we probably should have been? And sometimes there is a threshold that is passed that escalates feelings. In this case it isn't just the repressive laws, disregard for worker deaths, the undoubted bribery that got them the Olympics, the change of dates and the fact that we have awarded a World Cup to a hot footballing powerhouse equivalent of Anglesey, that has snowballed into the general distaste for Qatar and this World Cup.
I bet my bottom dollar that people here talking about not watching this world cup, will be glued to the TV when Quarter-Finals start. So, all this arm chair activism lasts only while teams like Brazil are playing teams like Serbia. As soon as it is Argentina vs England in the quarter-finals, each of us will be glued to the tv.
 

Norman Brownbutter

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All I'm saying is when you didn't whine about China, when you didn't whine about Russia, your whining about Qatar suddenly becomes highly questionable.

Be consistent if you want to play a SJW. Otherwise your double standards are laid bare for all to see.
But we did "whine" about China. We did "whine" about Russia. So again, I ask, what the feck is that mess of a post?

And how in the sweet tits of the world do you not understand how exposure works??? When theres a bright light shining on something, you point it out. Everyone knows this. Thats why it's now getting the exposure it should have been getting all along. Because now it's a lot harder to ignore. The press are mostly cnuts. But we still require them to do their jobs. Some times they do, some times they dont. Like right now with the strikes. Instead of highlighting the issues with the government handing large chunks of public cash over to their mates in the private sector, they are bemoaning the strikers who probably want far less than what the private companies are currently getting to cover the strikes.

The world is not only what you see and hear. Every day people get up and say something. They point to something thats happening and they says "thats not right". Some times they get heard and their voice amplified, but usually they are dismissed as unwashed blue haired land whales who just need a good seeing to. The world, everywhere, is fecked. Climate change, wars, slavery, death, child abuse, the list goes on and on and on. It's a cavalcade of misery and the human mind can only take so much. So we all limit our exposure. But that doesnt mean it goes away. People are still coming here from Ukraine. People are still dying of covid. Kids are still being raped by tv presenters. None of it goes away just because the press stops talking about it as much.

The same thing happened in Russia in 2018. The reason most probably dont remember it, is because there wasnt a gaggle of feckwits pushing back on the idea that Russia wasnt very nice to its LGBT community. But all of sudden, it's not concern for LGBT people when its Qatar. Now it's Islamaphobia. Because THAT is what youre getting at in your post. Theres no other reason to attack the Qatari unless its hatred of them, right? Except it's not that. Its hatred of bigotry in all its forms that fuels this particular outrage. Someone, somewhere, said "Lets make this about hating Muslims." because there is no defence to LGBT attitudes in Qatar. Thats why no one tried to do it in Russia. But how convenient that we have hatred of Muslims to fall back on. After all, after 9/11 thats been a pretty big deal. It's a real thing. So it's totally a defence to murdering muslim men for the crime of loving another man...

After the lights go down in the stadiums, you wont hear as much about this. But believe me, it will still be a thing. And people will still take issue with it and protest it however they can. When Jimmy Saville was found to have raped all those children, it brought that whole world of childrens tv presenters raping kids to light. Imagine, just try and imagine, someone saying "Why is everyone so bothered about this now? It's not like anyone actually bothered to say anything before.". Do you think you would be that person? Or does stopping the rape of kids just mean more to you than stopping the persecution of LGBT people around the world? America, the UK, Ireland, France, Germany, etc etc etc. They all have issues with LGBT people to varying degrees one way or another. Whether it's the right to get married or the right to exist. It doesnt matter. LGBT people are people. And people, all people, should be afforded equal human rights. Regardless of how it may upset the more religious or the cnutish among us. They can have their beliefs. They are welcome to them. But they dont, or they shouldn't, get to impose those beliefs on to others. It's an attack on basic human freedom. And we should all be appalled whenever, and wherever we see such things happening. And if you still cant get your head around that, maybe think of it this way. Today, it's them. But tomorrow, it could be you. Wouldnt you want people to stand up for you against an oppressive system of government that wanted to make you being you illegal?

Something to think about I guess.
 

Tarrou

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Nah it’s ruining football.. we’re only a super league or seperate rights deals from it being completely destroyed, seems like only a matter of time now
 

Wibble

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I bet my bottom dollar that people here talking about not watching this world cup, will be glued to the TV when Quarter-Finals start. So, all this arm chair activism lasts only while teams like Brazil are playing teams like Serbia. As soon as it is Argentina vs England in the quarter-finals, each of us will be glued to the tv.
I may but then again I may not. I haven't taken a concious decision to boycott watching but it is the first time I haven't bothered watching an England or Australia game at a World Cup.

Part of that is my dislike for this event and, I suspect, part of it is my general growing dislike of football in general.
 

MZX7

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But we did "whine" about China. We did "whine" about Russia. So again, I ask, what the feck is that mess of a post?

And how in the sweet tits of the world do you not understand how exposure works??? When theres a bright light shining on something, you point it out. Everyone knows this. Thats why it's now getting the exposure it should have been getting all along. Because now it's a lot harder to ignore. The press are mostly cnuts. But we still require them to do their jobs. Some times they do, some times they dont. Like right now with the strikes. Instead of highlighting the issues with the government handing large chunks of public cash over to their mates in the private sector, they are bemoaning the strikers who probably want far less than what the private companies are currently getting to cover the strikes.

The world is not only what you see and hear. Every day people get up and say something. They point to something thats happening and they says "thats not right". Some times they get heard and their voice amplified, but usually they are dismissed as unwashed blue haired land whales who just need a good seeing to. The world, everywhere, is fecked. Climate change, wars, slavery, death, child abuse, the list goes on and on and on. It's a cavalcade of misery and the human mind can only take so much. So we all limit our exposure. But that doesnt mean it goes away. People are still coming here from Ukraine. People are still dying of covid. Kids are still being raped by tv presenters. None of it goes away just because the press stops talking about it as much.

The same thing happened in Russia in 2018. The reason most probably dont remember it, is because there wasnt a gaggle of feckwits pushing back on the idea that Russia wasnt very nice to its LGBT community. But all of sudden, it's not concern for LGBT people when its Qatar. Now it's Islamaphobia. Because THAT is what youre getting at in your post. Theres no other reason to attack the Qatari unless its hatred of them, right? Except it's not that. Its hatred of bigotry in all its forms that fuels this particular outrage. Someone, somewhere, said "Lets make this about hating Muslims." because there is no defence to LGBT attitudes in Qatar. Thats why no one tried to do it in Russia. But how convenient that we have hatred of Muslims to fall back on. After all, after 9/11 thats been a pretty big deal. It's a real thing. So it's totally a defence to murdering muslim men for the crime of loving another man...

After the lights go down in the stadiums, you wont hear as much about this. But believe me, it will still be a thing. And people will still take issue with it and protest it however they can. When Jimmy Saville was found to have raped all those children, it brought that whole world of childrens tv presenters raping kids to light. Imagine, just try and imagine, someone saying "Why is everyone so bothered about this now? It's not like anyone actually bothered to say anything before.". Do you think you would be that person? Or does stopping the rape of kids just mean more to you than stopping the persecution of LGBT people around the world? America, the UK, Ireland, France, Germany, etc etc etc. They all have issues with LGBT people to varying degrees one way or another. Whether it's the right to get married or the right to exist. It doesnt matter. LGBT people are people. And people, all people, should be afforded equal human rights. Regardless of how it may upset the more religious or the cnutish among us. They can have their beliefs. They are welcome to them. But they dont, or they shouldn't, get to impose those beliefs on to others. It's an attack on basic human freedom. And we should all be appalled whenever, and wherever we see such things happening. And if you still cant get your head around that, maybe think of it this way. Today, it's them. But tomorrow, it could be you. Wouldnt you want people to stand up for you against an oppressive system of government that wanted to make you being you illegal?

Something to think about I guess.
All valid points but you have to admit, the amplified nature of criticism for Qatar is mostly due to a brown nation hosting an International event, especially a brown muslim nation.

Of course, two wrongs don't make a right, but let's deal with bigots, racists and white-supremacists in our own backyard first, before going on TV and giving sermons about Qatar's human rights violations.

And this is not for people like us but corrupt politicians and biased tv anchors and others with a platform.

The abuse of labor in Qatar involved Western companies and their subsidiaries, including subsidiaries of a leading British construction company (if you have read the Guardian's report). So, it is not like the Qatari Government were able to pull off labor abuse in isolation without the contracting companies being hand in glove with the subjugation of laborers. Each and every one involved should be held accountable for it. Selective outrage will not address the problem.

Schmoozing around with Islamophobic French Premier's or wining and dining with spokespersons of the Hindtutva ideology, being in bed with Zionists and then going on the telly to talk about human rights violations in Qatar seems hypocritical.

If you are for human rights, and you have a platform, speak up for human-rights abuses everywhere, but when the victims are Palestinian or Uyghurs, the influential media persons suddenly resort to silence and some shamelessly support the oppressors. So, the double-standards are blatantly visible.
 

Himannv

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As long as they are proper owners who will invest in facilities and the squad and make sure that there is a football hierarchy in place that has a good vision for on-field success I'd be fine with it. Also they need to manage + reduce the debt and not take out dividends. I really don't like the idea of Saudi owning us personally but I think the other states are alright provided they do the above.
 

Tarrou

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All valid points but you have to admit, the amplified nature of criticism for Qatar is mostly due to a brown nation hosting an International event, especially a brown muslim nation.

Of course, two wrongs don't make a right, but let's deal with bigots, racists and white-supremacists in our own backyard first, before going on TV and giving sermons about Qatar's human rights violations.

And this is not for people like us but corrupt politicians and biased tv anchors and others with a platform.

The abuse of labor in Qatar involved Western companies and their subsidiaries, including subsidiaries of a leading British construction company (if you have read the Guardian's report). So, it is not like the Qatari Government were able to pull off labor abuse in isolation without the contracting companies being hand in glove with the subjugation of laborers. Each and every one involved should be held accountable for it. Selective outrage will not address the problem.

Schmoozing around with Islamophobic French Premier's or wining and dining with spokespersons of the Hindtutva ideology, being in bed with Zionists and then going on the telly to talk about human rights violations in Qatar seems hypocritical.

If you are for human rights, and you have a platform, speak up for human-rights abuses everywhere, but when the victims are Palestinian or Uyghurs, the influential media persons suddenly resort to silence and some shamelessly support the oppressors. So, the double-standards are blatantly visible.
No it's not. It's mostly because it's illegal to be gay there and it's a slave state that is exploiting cheap labour.

The idea that we need to "fix" our own countries before criticising another country for human rights violations is complete horseshit. I don't like the UK government either, and criticise them plenty. And many other governments and regimes.
 

redsunited

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Remove all clubs from being state owned. That is not going to happen, so i dont mind United also becoming State owned club.

When City could upgrade all positions every summer when required, Other clubs being handicapped in waiting for 2 more summers to organically upgrade based on money availability doesnt work.
 

devilish

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I rarely agree with Goldie but he's got a point (actually some commentator in his youtube channel had and Goldie had to agree with it). United at 6b offer no value for money especially since we would need another 2b to rebuild the stadium etc. That should deter any consortium whose in it for a quick return to investment + profit. United will probably go for someone insanely rich who wants to buy us for the prestige of owning Manchester United.
 

The Boy

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you have to admit, the amplified nature of criticism for Qatar is mostly due to a brown nation hosting an International event, especially a brown muslim nation.
This is offensive bollocks, I haven't seen anyone on here complaining on this basis. The complaint against Qatar is based around labour laws and LGBTQ laws.
 

Wibble

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No it's not. It's mostly because it's illegal to be gay there and it's a slave state that is exploiting cheap labour.

The idea that we need to "fix" our own countries before criticising another country for human rights violations is complete horseshit. I don't like the UK government either, and criticise them plenty. And many other governments and regimes.
Exactly.
 

NoPace

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Not okay with any of the states that want own foreign football clubs, that's for fecking sure.
 

Foxbatt

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All valid points but you have to admit, the amplified nature of criticism for Qatar is mostly due to a brown nation hosting an International event, especially a brown muslim nation.

Of course, two wrongs don't make a right, but let's deal with bigots, racists and white-supremacists in our own backyard first, before going on TV and giving sermons about Qatar's human rights violations.

And this is not for people like us but corrupt politicians and biased tv anchors and others with a platform.

The abuse of labor in Qatar involved Western companies and their subsidiaries, including subsidiaries of a leading British construction company (if you have read the Guardian's report). So, it is not like the Qatari Government were able to pull off labor abuse in isolation without the contracting companies being hand in glove with the subjugation of laborers. Each and every one involved should be held accountable for it. Selective outrage will not address the problem.

Schmoozing around with Islamophobic French Premier's or wining and dining with spokespersons of the Hindtutva ideology, being in bed with Zionists and then going on the telly to talk about human rights violations in Qatar seems hypocritical.

If you are for human rights, and you have a platform, speak up for human-rights abuses everywhere, but when the victims are Palestinian or Uyghurs, the influential media persons suddenly resort to silence and some shamelessly support the oppressors. So, the double-standards are blatantly visible.
I think you have some valid points but it's more than that. Where was the hue and cry when Iraq was bombed to the stone age? The illegal occupation of Palestine by Israel? The destruction of Libya?
Yes I know that the human rights issues are great in the middle east.
It has been like that for a long time. It's the British and American companies that run Qatar and other Gulf countries.
So this uproar about LGBTQ issue is only because it's not a European or a 5 Eyes country.
This is exactly what happens when hypocrisy comes to that forefront.
I accept that the people here who are angry would probably be angry about these illegal invasions and occupations that I have mentioned.
But if they are British then they own their government collectively and are responsible collectively what their government has done or is doing.
To me anyone who invests heavily and do a good job is good enough.
By the way it's not PR washing of human rights violation. No matter how much they spend on sports it's not going to white wash it.
 

b20times

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Get into bed with oil money and become a state owned club after years of us hating Man City and calling them for sportswashing and being comfortable with the humans rights abuse?
No thank you, I'd rather have 10 more years of the current owners.
 

The Boy

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Where was the hue and cry when Iraq was bombed to the stone age? The illegal occupation of Palestine by Israel? The destruction of Libya?
Is this sarcastic? If so then I'm sorry the rest of this reply is pointless.

The stop the war march in London in 2003 was and still is the biggest protest ever in British History. The illegal occupation of Palestine is protested against on a regular basis, just because there are still illegal settlements doesn't mean everyone is happy with it, far from it. It is possible to be against the LGBTQ laws in Qatar or the murderous Saudi regime as well as being against the wars in Iraq, Israel and Libya. In fact I think you'd find the majority of people against one are against all of the above.
 

Foxbatt

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Yes and then what happened? Nothing. The British elected the same government. No protest against any country that did it. Yes there was a million people march in London too. Against the invasion. Not against the government. Nor against the country nor against any sporting events in those countries.
This is the point. It's utter hypocrisy.
No should any country be free of criticism but don't you see the hypocrisy of it? Maybe you don't but a lot of people outside of Europe and north America see it. They saw it before and now too but the issue is bigger than the discrimination against LGBTQ and the treatment of immigrants.
 

phelans shorts

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I think you have some valid points but it's more than that. Where was the hue and cry when Iraq was bombed to the stone age? The illegal occupation of Palestine by Israel? The destruction of Libya?
Yes I know that the human rights issues are great in the middle east.
It has been like that for a long time. It's the British and American companies that run Qatar and other Gulf countries.
So this uproar about LGBTQ issue is only because it's not a European or a 5 Eyes country.
This is exactly what happens when hypocrisy comes to that forefront.
I accept that the people here who are angry would probably be angry about these illegal invasions and occupations that I have mentioned.
But if they are British then they own their government collectively and are responsible collectively what their government has done or is doing.
To me anyone who invests heavily and do a good job is good enough.
By the way it's not PR washing of human rights violation. No matter how much they spend on sports it's not going to white wash it.
There was outcry about all of these things and more. Just because your head is in the sand doesn’t mean everyone else’s are
 

Foxbatt

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Is this sarcastic? If so then I'm sorry the rest of this reply is pointless.

The stop the war march in London in 2003 was and still is the biggest protest ever in British History. The illegal occupation of Palestine is protested against on a regular basis, just because there are still illegal settlements doesn't mean everyone is happy with it, far from it. It is possible to be against the LGBTQ laws in Qatar or the murderous Saudi regime as well as being against the wars in Iraq, Israel and Libya. In fact I think you'd find the majority of people against one are against all of the above.
I was there in London in the demonstration so I know that very well.
The point is what did the British do as a country collectively? They elected the same government .
The Qataris or the Saudis don't have the option of changing the government. The British do and still elected them.
 

Tarrou

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Yes and then what happened? Nothing. The British elected the same government. No protest against any country that did it. Yes there was a million people march in London too. Against the invasion. Not against the government. Nor against the country nor against any sporting events in those countries.
This is the point. It's utter hypocrisy.
No should any country be free of criticism but don't you see the hypocrisy of it? Maybe you don't but a lot of people outside of Europe and north America see it. They saw it before and now too but the issue is bigger than the discrimination against LGBTQ and the treatment of immigrants.
you asked the question and I answered it

I think you need to be able to seperate individuals from nation states to have any meaningful participation in this thread, otherwise it's just deflection and whatabouttery

where is the hypocrisy in me as an individual criticising Qatar's human rights record? I was at the London protest and I never voted for Blair in my life
 

Gordon S

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Would not be happy at all if the club was used as a propaganda tool for a state. End of. Nevermind one who violates human rights.
But i can´t see myself walking out of this addiction anytime soon.
 

Escobar

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I’m not sure what’s prompted that response but I’m with them
Heard the same when it was clear how the Glazers buy the club, yet they did not stop supporting the club and also did the FCUoM fans all come back to watch United. Its pure blabla
 
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