Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll added)

Sack or Keep OLE?


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girish

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Quality post.
'I don't care', 'I completely believe', 'I won't be swayed from that belief, 'Call it gut feeling, or instinct'

That post reads like a fluff piece in support of Ole. No facts, and all blind faith.
 

Class of 63

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You're shifting the goalposts again, the original post of yours which I quoted was in response to another poster saying how the squad Ole inherited finished 2nd. Then you trotted out that ridiculous justification of him focusing on league to achieve that, while viewing cup competitions as 'inconvenience' (whatever the feck that means, since you've devolved that into a semantics debate)

Which me and others have already pointed out to you is not true because Mourinho is one of the few managers in recent times who takes those cup competitions seriously, evident by the strength of the side he puts out in those fixtures. Just look a the XI he put out in 16/17 season in our run to winning League Cup. The following season, we made deep run in domestic competitions, and finished 2nd because we had a good squad with a competent manager who hadn't completely lost his marbles. Not sure why that is so hard for you to comprehend.
Oh well if you and others have pointed it out i've nothing more to add.
 
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That's fair enough and I agree I have been antagonistic, but I'm sick of the constant negativity and the sense of entitlement too.

There are so many positives and it seems nobody wants to mention that. Also, a dose of reality and perspective wouldn't go amiss. thanks so point
Only if you want to spin things positively, but on the face of it, as Massive Spanner says, so far our gutting of the squad and spending €159m has made us a much worse side. There is absolutely no doubt about that. Hopefully our new €55m man will turn the tide now that Ole has at least half a first 11 that he himself is delighted with and has either signed, renewed or bigged up massively (DDG, AWB, Maguire, Lindelöf, McTom, Fred, Rashford).

So absolutely, if you want to buy into the idea that gutting the squad was essential then that's a positive. Many don't think it was essential.

If you want to buy into the idea that all of Ole's signings have been excellent and the "right signings" then that's a positive, but Daniel James is looking at best "meh", and as the season wears on and we struggle to break most teams down, AWB looks like a fullback that we may need to upgrade on if we want to be more than a sit back and attack on the break side. The one signing I personally have been chuffed with is Maguire but feck me, at that price he should be and it's a signing absolutely any manager could've made, hell Mourinho wanted the same signing a year earlier. I can absolutely understand why the signing still baffles many though.

Fred's improvement is a positive, but how much of that is due to him settling and how much is the coaching is impossible to know.

The only 100% positives anyone can state with any certainty is Rashford's form and minutes for Williams and Greenwood; then there's an entire poop soup that can be dressed up as positive but without any tangible evidence in the real World. In fairness to Bilbo, at least he put it as he sees it, this season was a free pass in his eyes for Ole (not "pretty much a free pass" as he attempted to state, as the very next sentence starts with him saying he does not care about results); other fans that are desperate to back Ole would do well to stop with the bullshit arguments and admit to what Bilbo just did, there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. Coming in here spinning positives and making comparisons to Klopp, Fergie or talking dramatically about our problems starting 7 years ago that Ole is cleaning up as though no other manager (Conte, Lampard etc) has ever had a mish mash of multiple managers expensive signing to deal with, just don't wash.
 
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langster

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List three of these positives. Well more like two because no doubt you'll claim clearing the deadwood.
Of course I will use that as a positive. Are you telling me it's not?

The three previous managers kept the Deadwood and added to it.

If the CAF had a list, Ole has read it. He has removed nearly every single player that the fans wanted gone. He's trimmed the squad, reduced the wage bill and he has promoted youth players.


Just because he's not a big name he's getting shit. Jose was a big name and he got shit yet he spent millions on overrated and old players. He never played or promoted youngsters and he had us playing ugly football.



The positives from Ole's reign:

1) Transfer market - we have seen a notable improvement in this area under Ole. Maguire, AWB and James (earlier in the season) have each contributed to varying degrees, and they're young enough to improve further still. I have a good feeling about Bruno, too.

2) The kids - two of our brightest prospects to emerge this season are Greenwood and Williams. Both have taken to first-team football as if second nature and if they continue to develop, and there's every reason to believe they will given the facilities at their disposal, they have a bright future at the club.

3) Player improvement - Rashford, Mctominay and Fred have improved from last season to the point that we genuinely miss their presence in the team when unavailable. Matic is worthy of a mention here too.

However, the awful win ratio of 36% is impossible to ignore and far outweighs any number of positives. This is a results business, ultimately, and they haven't been good enough under Ole. Moyes, LVG and Jose got sacked for not producing in this area, Ole should too.
Great post. Nice one, mate.
 
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langster

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Only if you want to spin things positively, but on the face of it, as Massive Spanner says, so far our gutting of the squad and spending €159m has made us a much worse side. There is absolutely no doubt about that. Hopefully our new €55m man will turn the tide now that Ole has at least half a first 11 that he himself is delighted with and has either signed, renewed or bigged up massively (DDG, AWB, Maguire, Lindelöf, McTom, Fred, Rashford).

So absolutely, if you want to buy into the idea that gutting the squad was essential then that's a positive. Many don't think it was essential.
Bollocks.

It was essential and most fans knew that
 

adexkola

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If the board doesn't have faith in Ole beyond the end of the season then he should have been sacked in January, and a new manager should have been given a half season to evaluate the squad and plan for the following one.

I've not seen the evolution from Ole I was hoping for, so I'm ambivalent regarding his dismissal. Ambivalent because I have no faith his replacement would be much better
 

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I just see a manager moving the goal posts further the worse our results are. When he came it was all about what talented players we have. Not long ago he was comparing himself to Klopp talking about 4 years. Before he became United manager, he said he highly doubted any United players would be satisfied with a 2nd place finish. Wonder how he feels about that now.
We do have talented players, some extremely talented players, what did you expect Ole to say? I'm starting from scratch as the squad is shite!?

He wasn't comparing himself to Klopp, that's just how you've chosen to interpret what he said, he wasn't dissing Klopp more pointing out that the guy currently the best in the business needed and was given time. And he wasn't under the scrutiny Ole or any of our recent Managers were either.

Nothing has changed re. 2nd, unless you think Ole and the players are happy.
 
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Bollocks.

It was essential and most fans knew that
"Most" didn't at all. My argument will always be that gradual change would've been the smarter option as I'll think Ole will pay the price, gradual change would have kept him in his job and this will most probably end with us having to get yet another manager in due to the naivety of Summer 2019.

But as I say, if you're one of the many who did, absolutely making a side shitter can then be made into a positive, strange though it sounds.
 

Majima

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Just because he's not a big name he's getting shit. Jose was a big name and he got shit yet he spent millions on overrated and old players. He never played or promoted youngsters and he had us playing ugly football.
Why would you even try & suggest that? Us having our worst points total for 30 years, being 8th behind teams who have sacked their managers mid-season is our imagination?

Why are you ignoring that we're also playing ugly football under Ole?

If there was improvement in our performances in spite of the results, maybe he would deserve more faith but there's not. We have been consistently stagnant going back to last season.

Even though he's spent £130m on the defence, we still can't defend without camping in our own half, even at home.

We never attack with any real numbers. To the contrary, we are terrified to take risks. I'll tell you what we resemble under Ole? Cowards. When have you seen us throw the kitchen sink at an opponent, even at home? Exactly.

...But he promoted a few youngsters I guess .
 
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hobbers

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There is nothing in Pochettino career that suggest we would win anything but people want him here. Won zero. However if appointed, I would say that he would need time and would back him up as I usually back managers. Not one year. What Solskjaer has done before don’t matter. What he is doing now and what vision he/club have is important. I say, you got to give managers time.
1. He took Spurs to a CL final, which in itself is a strong indicator he could one day be a title winning manager.
2. What Ole has done before matters enormously. SAF and Klopp and any other manager people laughably try and compare Ole with all have one thing in common - they were already successful before they were given time. That meant top players bought into their philosophy and wanted to come and play for them. Players already at the clubs were often desperate to impress them, because they wanted to be on the success bandwagon they could sense was coming.

How many United players do you honestly think are expecting the club to find success under Ole? Probably none. How many top players are clamouring to come and be on the bus with Ole at the wheel? None.
 

langster

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Why would you even try & suggest that? Us having our worst points total for 30 years, being 8th behind teams who have sacked their managers mid-season is our imagination?

Why are you ignoring that we're also playing ugly football under Ole?

If there was improvement in our performances in spite of the results, maybe he would deserve more faith but there's not. We have been consistently stagnant going back to last season.

Even though he's spent £130m on the defence, we still can't defend without camping in our own half, even at home.

We never attack with any real numbers. To the contrary, we are terrified to take risks. I'll tell you what we resemble under Ole? Cowards. When have you seen us throw the kitchen sink at an opponent, even at home? Exactly.

...But he promoted a few youngsters I guess .
Fair points. I agree we are playing dire football and I agree Ole is out of his depth. My point was that he has made many positive steps. LvG, for all his faults, had a clear vision too, it just wasn't working quickly enough. Moyes was out of his depth and Jose tried to turn United in to his Chelsea and Inter sides which is not what this club is about.

The nearest and best manager is at Liverpool. Klopp would have been a perfect fit because his sides play in the style United teams did. Fast passing, rapid wing play and exciting football. I hear fans calling for Pep but his style doesn't fit this club and I'm not sure Poch does either.

I don't know what the answer is, and I'm trying to look at the positives because I'm sick of the negativity. I also don't think Ole deserves some praise and doesn't deserve the shit and abuse he is getting. Some of the hate and vitriol aimed at him is disgusting. He also deserves more respect. He's tried his hardest and if that's not good enough then fine, he should go, but he's made some important changes and had some positive influences. It's not been all bad.
 

momo83

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Tbh, I barely know what a dof is supposed to do fully. But doesn't it also entail picking players for the club to buy. He's done a good job of that for the moment.
I think like DOF is the rainbow being chased people have a false belief that it will end all our problems and bring us back to the top. In reality it’ll probably just give something else to point the figure at and blame.

Most successful clubs we don’t even know the name of their DOF. Who are the DOF of Liverpool, Leicester, Chelsea, Wolves, Sheff Utd, Real, Barca, Dortmund, Juve etc ? Only ones I know, the ones that were appointed to high applause are the City lot. That was in 2011 and it made the news because they came from Barca before that I doubt any of us had even heard of them.
 

Tony247

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Chelsea snapped Ziyech for cheap and they are very much in for sancho.

We need to be swift and intelligent in transfers. Something that is lacking in last 4 years.
 

Bobcat

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Only if you want to spin things positively, but on the face of it, as Massive Spanner says, so far our gutting of the squad and spending €159m has made us a much worse side. There is absolutely no doubt about that. Hopefully our new €55m man will turn the tide now that Ole has at least half a first 11 that he himself is delighted with and has either signed, renewed or bigged up massively (DDG, AWB, Maguire, Lindelöf, McTom, Fred, Rashford).

So absolutely, if you want to buy into the idea that gutting the squad was essential then that's a positive. Many don't think it was essential.

If you want to buy into the idea that all of Ole's signings have been excellent and the "right signings" then that's a positive, but Daniel James is looking at best "meh", and as the season wears on and we struggle to break most teams down, AWB looks like a fullback that we may need to upgrade on if we want to be more than a sit back and attack on the break side. The one signing I personally have been chuffed with is Maguire but feck me, at that price he should be and it's a signing absolutely any manager could've made, hell Mourinho wanted the same signing a year earlier. I can absolutely understand why the signing still baffles many though.

Fred's improvement is a positive, but how much of that is due to him settling and how much is the coaching is impossible to know.

The only 100% positives anyone can state with any certainty is Rashford's form and minutes for Williams and Greenwood; then there's an entire poop soup that can be dressed up as positive but without any tangible evidence in the real World. In fairness to Bilbo, at least he put it as he sees it, this season was a free pass in his eyes for Ole (not "pretty much a free pass" as he attempted to state, as the very next sentence starts with him saying he does not care about results); other fans that are desperate to back Ole would do well to stop with the bullshit arguments and admit to what Bilbo just did, there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. Coming in here spinning positives and making comparisons to Klopp, Fergie or talking dramatically about our problems starting 7 years ago that Ole is cleaning up as though no other manager (Conte, Lampard etc) has ever had a mish mash of multiple managers expensive signing to deal with, just don't wash.
I knew we have discussed this before, but i am firmly in the camp that believes culling the squad is a step in the right direction, despite it causing us all sorts of problems in the short term In a sense you are correct, losing so many players has made us "worse" but its a necessary step. We can argue back and forth about the relative usefulness of the players that have left, but the 9(!) players that have left had an average age of 30. Not saying players above 30 are useless, but its usually around that age they start to decline. Average age of the incoming transfers and the two most prominent youth promotions is 21,5

In fact if we sold DDG, Lindelof, Baily, Jones, Shaw, Mata, Lindgard, Pereira, Matic and Martial and replaced them all with youth players i would be perfectly happy, even it it means we end up outside top 4 two season in a row. Now DDG and Martial for example are obviously good players on their day, but they are on 375k/week and 250k/week, and imo they are not worth that kind of money. If we sold all those players, that's 1,4 million a week "saved" in wages, now obviously we would need replacements, but assume we learned our lesson and stopped handing out stupid contracts to players who are not worth it, a conservative estimate would say at least half a million freed up in wages

Assuming my stupid fantasy comes true we could line up like this next year

---------------------------Henderson(22)---------------------------------
AWB(22)---Maguire(26)---Tuanzebe(22)---Williams(19)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------Fred(26)---McTomminay(22)---Pogba(26)-----
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------Greenwood(19)---Rashford(23)---Bruno(26)-----

Subs: Romero, Fosuh-Mensa, Dalot, James, Garner, Hannibal

Average age of that starting XI is 23 years, also its assuming no transfers, just promoting what we got. Imo, that's a pretty good spine to work with, add some good squad players in the mold of Daley Blind (why did we ever sell him) and a couple of star quality signings, and it could have the makings of a really strong side
 

roonster09

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I think like DOF is the rainbow being chased people have a false belief that it will end all our problems and bring us back to the top. In reality it’ll probably just give something else to point the figure at and blame.

Most successful clubs we don’t even know the name of their DOF. Who are the DOF of Liverpool, Leicester, Chelsea, Wolves, Sheff Utd, Real, Barca, Dortmund, Juve etc ? Only ones I know, the ones that were appointed to high applause are the City lot. That was in 2011 and it made the news because they came from Barca before that I doubt any of us had even heard of them.
There is the problem.
 

Wolfmother

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[/QUOTE]
The fact that you and the previous poster think that makes your opinion anymore valid is laughable though.

My dad was a professional footballer. While he knew a lot he was often wrong and sometimes would be blindly loyal, he was very much a give Moyes time back in 2014. But he also wasn't arrogant enough to claim no one could question him just because of his former career.

The fact that there are so few successful ex players who become top managers is testament to this.
That was the opposite of my point. Sitting down and talking football with ueafa pro coaches have taught me I really don’t know anything about football. Still have a lot of opinions about it though, but I know I can’t say anything about coaching and Ole is shit or anything like that. But what I can do is seeing a few things wrong on the pitch. But I’m 100% certain them coaches and managers see the same, and at a whole different level that I do. And I’ve also been through a few transitions myself. I know it sometimes just click. And sometimes it takes a bit more time. Especially when missing a few pieces. So I’m guessing me and your dad is not that far off.
 
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Wolfmother

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Not sure what you mean by that but previous and current performance are indication of what to expect. Ole is
nowhere near the required level in either, Molde gave him time in his second spell and he couldn’t win the league so time didn’t help him then. Since he left they won it though so change isn’t a bad thing if things aren’t working.

He failed in Premier League, failed in Championship with Cardiff, other than initial caretaker spell his record here is really poor. Peaked in first spell in Norway which isn’t even in top 20 leagues in Europeans is well below Championship level. He’s not even managed at Championship level successfully so I’m not surprised he’s struggling.

Playing under SAF and knowing the club aren’t actually very helpful qualities in comparison to qualities that a good manager at this level has.
Just like I thought. Some of the people on here knowing Molde have written about that rebuild, and might be worth a read. Actually. There’s lot on the World Wide Web if you’d want to know about Oles qualifications.
 

Roboc7

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Just like I thought. Some of the people on here knowing Molde have written about that rebuild, and might be worth a read. Actually. There’s lot on the World Wide Web if you’d want to know about Oles qualifications.
As I suspected one of those who doesn’t know what talking about and just comes with terrible excuses like look at the internet.

Ole’s qualifications are there for all to see and if you don’t like the reality of it then I can’t help you. Lots of people who know about Molde said when Ole left that he was holding them back and they were stagnating. Well done to them because they nailed that assessment, get out there and find some better sources of information, acting like you know it all will be more interesting then.
 

Wolfmother

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As I suspected one of those who doesn’t know what talking about and just comes with terrible excuses like look at the internet.

Ole’s qualifications are there for all to see and if you don’t like the reality of it then I can’t help you.
Maybe I don’t. But I do know he did a complete rebuild at Molde, and put a bit more details to form my opinion on that. Was interesting reading about it on here by some of them posters knowing the ins and outs.
I also know in detail what happened at Cardiff. And I don’t think loosing two games is failing in the championship. Again. A lot of details form my opinion.
And I know very well of his work in football since starting out under SAF and the under 23’s. Have read his paper on pro licens. A lot of the work of people he has collaborated with have both written and held courses in.

So I might not know much. And I’m not one for looking for excuses. Just add a bit more depth to call things a failure. But you are right, at this point in time I am not able to see anything about his qualifications. Maybe in the next few months. Maybe next Christmas.. And you are right. You can’t help me. with anything.
 

Roboc7

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Maybe I don’t. But I do know he did a complete rebuild at Molde, and put a bit more details to form my opinion on that. Was interesting reading about it on here by some of them posters knowing the ins and outs.
I also know in detail what happened at Cardiff. And I don’t think loosing two games is failing in the championship. Again. A lot of details form my opinion.
And I know very well of his work in football since starting out under SAF and the under 23’s. Have read his paper on pro licens. A lot of the work of people he has collaborated with have both written and held courses in.

So I might not know much. And I’m not one for looking for excuses. Just add a bit more depth to call things a failure. But you are right, at this point in time I am not able to see anything about his qualifications. Maybe in the next few months. Maybe next Christmas.. And you are right. You can’t help me. with anything.
Doing some reading doesn’t mean what you say is right or that you should assume the default that everyone else should look on the internet as you know more than them. From content of what you posted I have no idea how you have assumed you know so much.
 

jamesjimmybyrondean

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This shit is really simple. Is Pochettino better than Ole? Yes. It's pointless waiting for Pogba and McTominay to return or a transfer window when Pochettino has the better proof than Ole that he is a better coach. What proof does Ole have that he is better than Pochettino. So why give Ole a fit squad or transfer window when you can just give it to Pochettino who is the better coach??
 

Enigma_87

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Just like I thought. Some of the people on here knowing Molde have written about that rebuild, and might be worth a read. Actually. There’s lot on the World Wide Web if you’d want to know about Oles qualifications.
Who cares about a club in a tin pot league?

Should we appoint managers that did well in Albania and Lichtenstein too?

What are his qualifications managing a top side in a top league over the last 10 years of his career?
 

b82REZ

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Of course I will use that as a positive. Are you telling me it's not?

The three previous managers kept the Deadwood and added to it.

If the CAF had a list, Ole has read it. He has removed nearly every single player that the fans wanted gone. He's trimmed the squad, reduced the wage bill and he has promoted youth players.


Just because he's not a big name he's getting shit. Jose was a big name and he got shit yet he spent millions on overrated and old players. He never played or promoted youngsters and he had us playing ugly football.





Great post. Nice one, mate.
I don't think he's done a good job at offloading players.

I don't hold him responsible for Herrera, however I do hold him accountable for knowing for his entire tenure that he was leaving and he still had no one lined up as replacement.

Similar reasons I don't give him credit for binning Lukaku when we don't have anyone at the club who knows how to play as a number 9.

Sanchez is still our player, as is Rojo so again no credit for him agreeing to pay them to play for another club.

I've made numerous posts stating I thought the signing of Maguire was unnecessary and Smalling was a more than adequate CB. Also of all the deadwood defenders Smalling was the only consistent one, both in terms of performances and injuries.

You post about how Ole could have read a list on the Caf and done what we would of done is exactly part of the issue. I think we all can agree the Caf is wrong most of the time and the fact Ole has come and acted like a fan rather than a manager is worrying. It's also part of the reason some can't bring themselves to criticise him as they see themselves in him.

On youth, Greenwood is the only one that he obviously intended to blood in this season. As excellent as Williams has done he was not one of the players earmarked for breakthrough. His faith in youth is overplayed massively. The fact Lingard and Pereria are still getting minutes over some of these youngsters indicates Solskjaer isn't this magnificent promoter of youth many make out.

While I can recognise some of the good aspects of his time in charge, they are severely outweighed by the negatives. The absolute dire, turgid football we play is the death knell for me. For all the talk of him understanding the club and the way we should play he is arguably the most defensive coach we've had since Fergie. The squad he is building is indicative of this.
 

90 + 5min

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Well you can’t give time to a manager that is failing miserably and what he is doing now isn’t helping his case. When there is no reason to give someone time other than you want to give them time it’s game over.
No you can't. But difference is I'm willing to give Solskjaer time and lot of you don't. I see progress and I don't only look at results. Are they good enough? Absolutly not. Not for ManUtd. But there is other aspects that people have to look at. I don't think one year is enough to make things work.

Yes and I'm not buying it one bit.

We were playing the exact same way at the end of last season with everyone available.

Did you not state nonchalantly that it's not hard to see?

To me, the Wolves match is what I've been seeing from Ole for almost a year now. So I would love for you to explain everything I've been apparently missing.
Injuries, period of lots of games, thin squad, suspensions. You think you are going to dominate Wolves? Not even ManCity can dominate teams anymore like they used to do.

I have asked him similar questions multiple times. He'll just side step the question.
Suspected as much. Here I was, hoping to be enlightened. Shame.
I've answered your questions but either you don't like the answeres or you love to missunderstand and jump over my answers.

1. He took Spurs to a CL final, which in itself is a strong indicator he could one day be a title winning manager.
2. What Ole has done before matters enormously. SAF and Klopp and any other manager people laughably try and compare Ole with all have one thing in common - they were already successful before they were given time. That meant top players bought into their philosophy and wanted to come and play for them. Players already at the clubs were often desperate to impress them, because they wanted to be on the success bandwagon they could sense was coming.

How many United players do you honestly think are expecting the club to find success under Ole? Probably none. How many top players are clamouring to come and be on the bus with Ole at the wheel? None.
Why compare Solskjaer to them? Guardiola came from nothing to Barcelona and become worlds best. Nothing to show before getting job at Barcelona. Ferguson were so close to sacking but we did the right thing and didn't take any drastic moves when things went bad. Every manager and every success has its own way. They are not the same. But as I said, Solskjaer shouldn't be compared to them.

I was pointing out to the poster that it is easier to take out the negative side. That is why I mentioned Pochettino. Every manager has good sides in them aswell.

That was the opposite of my point. Sitting down and talking football with ueafa pro coaches have taught me I really don’t know anything about football. Still have a lot of opinions about it though, but I know I can’t say anything about coaching and Ole is shit or anything like that. But what I can do is seeing a few things wrong on the pitch. But I’m 100% certain them coaches and managers see the same, and at a whole different level that I do. And I’ve also been through a few transitions myself. I know it sometimes just click. And sometimes it takes a bit more time. Especially when missing a few pieces. So I’m guessing me and your dad is not that far off.
I can say that taking UEFA coaching badges about 10 years ago made me open my eyes more. Before, I always thought football was "easy" but there is lot in it that people don't really understand. They think it is easy. We all have opinions and being a fan is having opinions but sometimes I think that there is posters in here that think in a to simple way. And in Solskjaer case, that sacking him would mean sunshine, bubbles and rainbows right away.
 

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No you can't. But difference is I'm willing to give Solskjaer time and lot of you don't. I see progress and I don't only look at results. Are they good enough? Absolutly not. Not for ManUtd. But there is other aspects that people have to look at. I don't think one year is enough to make things work.


Injuries, period of lots of games, thin squad, suspensions. You think you are going to dominate Wolves? Not even ManCity can dominate teams anymore like they used to do.




I've answered your questions but either you don't like the answeres or you love to missunderstand and jump over my answers.


Why compare Solskjaer to them? Guardiola came from nothing to Barcelona and become worlds best. Nothing to show before getting job at Barcelona. Ferguson were so close to sacking but we did the right thing and didn't take any drastic moves when things went bad. Every manager and every success has its own way. They are not the same. But as I said, Solskjaer shouldn't be compared to them.

I was pointing out to the poster that it is easier to take out the negative side. That is why I mentioned Pochettino. Every manager has good sides in them aswell.


I can say that taking UEFA coaching badges about 10 years ago made me open my eyes more. Before, I always thought football was "easy" but there is lot in it that people don't really understand. They think it is easy. We all have opinions and being a fan is having opinions but sometimes I think that there is posters in here that think in a to simple way. And in Solskjaer case, that sacking him would mean sunshine, bubbles and rainbows right away.
Looking at other aspects he’s failing as well, poor argument to say people need to look beyond results.

Very few people actually think getting rid of Ole will be instant sunshine and rainbows, that’s just a lazy statement to try and dismiss an argument you don’t like.
 

Forevergiggs1

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Why compare Solskjaer to them? Guardiola came from nothing to Barcelona and become worlds best. Nothing to show before getting job.


I can say that taking UEFA coaching badges about 10 years ago made me open my eyes more. Before, I always thought football was "easy" but there is lot in it that people don't really understand. They think it is easy. We all have opinions and being a fan is having opinions but sometimes I think that there is posters in here that think in a to simple way. And in Solskjaer case, that sacking him would mean sunshine, bubbles and rainbows right away.
It's true Guardiola came from nothing and many people thought it was a big risk and that risk paid off but the big difference between Guardiola (and Klopp) was they showed from the start they had great potential. One thing is certain though. If Guardiola was in the position Ole is in now he would of been out the door quick time. Do you think Solari would of been good enough if given 3 years and a large transfer kitty? Top managers are quite easy to spot but so too are managers who just aren't good enough and I'll use Moyes as an example.

A lot of us here have played football at different levels and we don't need a UEFA coaching badge to see that Ole isn't good enough so I think you should stop over complicating things and just face reality. Common sense, a basic footballing understanding and 2 eyes are enough for most people to make up their minds about Ole.
 

Kurton

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Statistics is one thing. Fact is another. And logic is another. They can be different to eachother. While the statistic show that we are not world beaters there are things behind those Numbers that should be talked about. First and most important. Players we got and injuries. There should be some logic that with thin average squad hit by injuries would mean that we could struggle.


The hate doesn’t come from me. And lies is something that is made up by Ole-out supporters. To discredit our manager. Not all but some.


Call us whatever you want. We, that are still thinking time is important are no Ole fans. We are ManUtd fans. We know that things take time. We know that you can’t bulid anything in a sec. We have tried buying stars and it didn’t Work. Club has taken another way now and this way takes time. We can sack Solskjaer but without time other managers would struggle aswell.
I always wondered how religious and cult leaders managed to amass a big following. Now I know they do not actually have to try too hard, just find the community of people willing to believe their lies, the rest the followers will do themselves. They will even make up things in their own head to justify their beliefs contrary to what the evidence might suggest.

I cannot believe you are suggesting stats and facts are different? Is it not a part of the process of finding the truth. The stat from people falling from a 20-storey building says nearly 100% of the time you die, so then its a fact that you will not survive falling from such height. Then the logic should dictate that you should not attempt it.

This argument keeps on coming up every often about needing time. I don't know of any field of work where after a year in the role with no progress in terms of numbers or clear identifiable short-term targets being met that employers still think of giving more time. At the very least Ole should have been able to install some sort style to the team, there is nothing like that to be seen yet. It's all wishful thinking at this point.

Then there is clearing deadwood and bringing players fit for the club argument. The deadwood is doing much better than the players we have. When a manager spends 80+million on a central defender when your team clearly has problems scoring goals especially when you know you have a limited budget is the first clue that he's not good enough. This is even more idiotic when you know that you are loaded in central defense to go and add one more defender for such a big price. And what does he do on top of that, he goes and buys a relatively inexperienced right-back with a known deficiency in attacking side. You let go of an attacker after the window has closed while still paying part of his wage (I do not believe that Woodward was happy with this arrangement, it's on Ole). What a way to make your attack even more impotent. What he is doing is surrounding himself with players who he gets along with and not necessarily the ones who are ambitious, they are then named as not fitting the culture of the club and some of the fans lap it up. That is why Pogba also wants to leave.

This injuries argument keeps on coming over and over again, I don't know which teams has all its players fit and available throughout the year. A tactical manager with a system can easily replace an injured or suspended player and still be able to get results against most of the teams. He's in fact directly responsible for some of the long-term injuries, I don't know how one can bring up this injury argument.

And finally, the stupid tactics or the lack thereof, of playing 2 DMs against sides that have no attacking intentions or starting Dan James against teams that defend in numbers or the 88th minute substitutions (even when desperately chasing a game, I mean its has the exact opposite effect) or overplaying certain players to the point of burnout to save his own arse (even in stupid cups against league 1 opposition) so that he'll have some wins in the middle of horrible results.

I think these are enough reasons for a rational person to see that Ole has no business managing Man Utd. That's why I called you guys Ole fans because if it was any other manager with no previous connections to the club, threads like these most probably wouldn't exist. I think at this point, the Ole inners are never going to change their mind no matter what.
 
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tonnas

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Fair points. I agree we are playing dire football and I agree Ole is out of his depth. My point was that he has made many positive steps. LvG, for all his faults, had a clear vision too, it just wasn't working quickly enough. Moyes was out of his depth and Jose tried to turn United in to his Chelsea and Inter sides which is not what this club is about.

The nearest and best manager is at Liverpool. Klopp would have been a perfect fit because his sides play in the style United teams did. Fast passing, rapid wing play and exciting football. I hear fans calling for Pep but his style doesn't fit this club and I'm not sure Poch does either.

I don't know what the answer is, and I'm trying to look at the positives because I'm sick of the negativity. I also don't think Ole deserves some praise and doesn't deserve the shit and abuse he is getting. Some of the hate and vitriol aimed at him is disgusting. He also deserves more respect. He's tried his hardest and if that's not good enough then fine, he should go, but he's made some important changes and had some positive influences. It's not been all bad.
He is not good enough and he knows it and he keeps the job thus stealing a living as he is not good enough for the post. He improved feck all, just lok a the stats and table.
 

Shamana

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He is not good enough and he knows it and he keeps the job thus stealing a living as he is not good enough for the post. He improved feck all, just lok a the stats and table.
No but he's winning at everything apart from winning on the pitch.
 

90 + 5min

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Looking at other aspects he’s failing as well, poor argument to say people need to look beyond results.

Very few people actually think getting rid of Ole will be instant sunshine and rainbows, that’s just a lazy statement to try and dismiss an argument you don’t like.
But that is pretty much what lot of Ole-out is saying. If we only sacked Ole... We would still have problems with avarege squad that needs fixing.

It's true Guardiola came from nothing and many people thought it was a big risk and that risk paid off but the big difference between Guardiola (and Klopp) was they showed from the start they had great potential. One thing is certain though. If Guardiola was in the position Ole is in now he would of been out the door quick time. Do you think Solari would of been good enough if given 3 years and a large transfer kitty? Top managers are quite easy to spot but so too are managers who just aren't good enough and I'll use Moyes as an example.

A lot of us here have played football at different levels and we don't need a UEFA coaching badge to see that Ole isn't good enough so I think you should stop over complicating things and just face reality. Common sense, a basic footballing understanding and 2 eyes are enough for most people to make up their minds about Ole.
For me that is just to simplified. A good coach can have bad spell and a bad coach can have good spel. It is not that Easy to spot right away.

I didn’t say you couldn’t see and have opinion. I said that I think lot of you would be talking diffrenly.

I always wondered how religious and cult leaders managed to amass a big following. Now I know they do not actually have to try too hard, just find the community of people willing to believe their lies, the rest the followers will do themselves. They will even make up things in their own head to justify their beliefs contrary to what the evidence might suggest.

I cannot believe you are suggesting stats and facts are different? Is it not a part of the process of finding the truth. The stat from people falling from a 10-storey building says nearly 100% of the time you die, so then its a fact that you will not survive falling from such height. Then the logic should dictate that you should not attempt it.

This argument keeps on coming up every often about needing time. I don't know of any field of work where after a year in the role with no progress in terms of numbers or clear identifiable short-term targets being met that employers still think of giving more time. At the very least Ole should have been able to install some sort style to the team, there is nothing like that to be seen yet. It's all wishful thinking at this point.

Then there is clearing deadwood and bringing players fit for the club argument. The deadwood is doing much better than the players we have. When a manager spends 80+million on a central defender when your team clearly has problems scoring goals especially when you know you have a limited budget is the first clue that he's not good enough. This is even more idiotic when you know that you are loaded in central defense to go and add one more defender for such a big price. And what does he do on top of that, he goes and buys a relatively inexperienced right-back with a known deficiency in attacking side. You let go of an attacker after the window has closed while still paying part of his wage (I do not believe that Woodward was happy with this arrangement, it's on Ole). What a way to make your attack even more impotent. What he is doing is surrounding himself with players who he gets along with and not necessarily the ones who are ambitious, they are then named as not fitting the culture of the club and some of the fans lap it up. That is why Pogba also wants to leave.

This injuries argument keeps on coming over and over again, I don't know which teams has all its players fit and available throughout the year. A tactical manager with a system can easily replace an injured or suspended player and still be able to get results against most of the teams. He's in fact directly responsible for some of the long-term injuries, I don't know how one can bring up this injury argument.

And finally, the stupid tactics or the lack thereof, of playing 2 DMs against sides that have no attacking intentions or starting Dan James against teams that defend in numbers or the 88th minute substitutions (even when desperately chasing a game, I mean its has the exact opposite effect) or overplaying certain players to the point of burnout to save his own arse (even in stupid cups against league 1 opposition) so that he'll have some wins in the middle of horrible results.

I think these are enough reasons for a rational person to see that Ole has no business managing Man Utd. That's why I called you guys Ole fans because if it was any other manager with no previous connections to the club, threads like these most probably wouldn't exist. I think at this point, the Ole inners are never going to change their mind no matter what.
I believe that Pogba wanted to leave when Mourinho was manager to. Has nothing to do with Solskjaer.

I see that you have every excuse that everything is our managers fault. If you can’t accept that results depend on more then a manager then it is hard to discuss. For example. To ignore injuries on our best players and making it that it is so Easy to replace means only that we have different look at football.
 

Roboc7

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But that is pretty much what lot of Ole-out is saying. If we only sacked Ole... We would still have problems with avarege squad that needs fixing.


For me that is just to simplified. A good coach can have bad spell and a bad coach can have good spel. It is not that Easy to spot right away.

I didn’t say you couldn’t see and have opinion. I said that I think lot of you would be talking diffrenly.


I believe that Pogba wanted to leave when Mourinho was manager to. Has nothing to do with Solskjaer.

I see that you have every excuse that everything is our managers fault. If you can’t accept that results depend on more then a manager then it is hard to discuss. For example. To ignore injuries on our best players and making it that it is so Easy to replace means only that we have different look at football.
No it’s appoint someone competent and qualified to do the job who can offer progression not regression. Few are expecting an instant title challenge just an improvement on the dross Ole is serving up.
 

jamesjimmybyrondean

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On course for the lowest point tally in over 30 years, saying our rivals putting out their best squad means they respect us, playing Rashford - a fan favoirite through injury in the third round of fa cup which has sidelined him for a long period, consistently failing to capitalize on top 4 rivals dropping points since last season up to this season, the sarr rape case,... Let's be honest, if Moyes did all this he would have been crucified. Can you imagine if Moyes played our beloved Rashford in the 3rd round of fa cup and he got injured then comes out to say the he Rashford has been playing through pain and he knew he was risking him?
 

Alabaster Codify7

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On course for the lowest point tally in over 30 years, saying our rivals putting out their best squad means they respect us, playing Rashford - a fan favoirite through injury in the third round of fa cup which has sidelined him for a long period, consistently failing to capitalize on top 4 rivals dropping points since last season up to this season, the sarr rape case,... Let's be honest, if Moyes did all this he would have been crucified. Can you imagine if Moyes played our beloved Rashford in the 3rd round of fa cup and he got injured then comes out to say the he Rashford has been playing through pain and he knew he was risking him?

Moyes doing or saying anything Ole has done or said would have resulted in the Plane Banner being unfurled months ago. It's as simple as that.
 

Kurton

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But that is pretty much what lot of Ole-out is saying. If we only sacked Ole... We would still have problems with avarege squad that needs fixing.


For me that is just to simplified. A good coach can have bad spell and a bad coach can have good spel. It is not that Easy to spot right away.

I didn’t say you couldn’t see and have opinion. I said that I think lot of you would be talking diffrenly.


I believe that Pogba wanted to leave when Mourinho was manager to. Has nothing to do with Solskjaer.

I see that you have every excuse that everything is our managers fault. If you can’t accept that results depend on more then a manager then it is hard to discuss. For example. To ignore injuries on our best players and making it that it is so Easy to replace means only that we have different look at football.
I did not give any excuse, excuses come from a defendant side. I'm accusing Ole of all the stupid decisions that have lead to the position that we find ourselves in. Any sane manager would have identified that we need attackers to score goals against 70% of shit sides that we face in the league. Maximum points from these games could easily have us in the top 4, then it wouldn't even matter if we get hammered against the top 6 sides. That is how Poch managed to keep Spurs in top 4. But what does Ole do, blow all the budget on defenders or right back without any attacking prowess?

I think it's the Ole in group that have this vision that its all on players that once improved upon will automatically improve results. Why need a manager/coach then, just buy the best players you can find for each position and we are fixed. What is the reason for the horrendous set of games at the end of last season, I believe the team was much better than what it is now (I don't know why I'm asking this anyway as I already know the excuses, players not fit enough, Ole did not have time to implement his style, deadwood, etc. etc. but you guys are happy to attribute the new manager bounce to Ole). You guys speak as if we have crap players, while many of them are internationals. Its like a circular argument, the manager can't coach players to perform, so players are crap. There are always these imaginary players who will make us better but none of them who join us seem to be able to do that. So the cycle continues.

Yes, Pogba wanted to leave under Mourinho because their working relationship was beyond broken. Ole seems to have a good rapport with Pogba, what is the excuse now for Pogba wanting to leave? Is it because he sees Ole has no clue what he's doing? You lost your own argument.

I presented you with a list of reasons, you seem to have conveniently ignored to address them. Let us pick one, can you defend the 88th minute subs when chasing the game. Can you at least give a rationale behind that decision of Ole?
 

Kurton

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1. He took Spurs to a CL final, which in itself is a strong indicator he could one day be a title winning manager.
2. What Ole has done before matters enormously. SAF and Klopp and any other manager people laughably try and compare Ole with all have one thing in common - they were already successful before they were given time. That meant top players bought into their philosophy and wanted to come and play for them. Players already at the clubs were often desperate to impress them, because they wanted to be on the success bandwagon they could sense was coming.

How many United players do you honestly think are expecting the club to find success under Ole? Probably none. How many top players are clamouring to come and be on the bus with Ole at the wheel? None.
Did you see the sheer hypocrisy in that post you replied to? Poch has won nothing so it suggests he's unlikely to win something any time soon, so we should consider that before appointing him. But in the immediate next line he goes on to suggest when it comes to Ole, it doesn't matter what Ole has done before we should blindly support him. This shows what Ole in brigade are all about. With fans like these, I think e deserve the mediocrity that we'll have.
 

momo83

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There is the problem.
Michael Edwards is currently the highly rated DOF of Liverpool. But funnily enough previously he was blamed for poor recruitment and missing out on great players when Rodgers got sacked. Even more ironic he wasn’t even DOF at that time but got promoted later on. Here is blamed for all that’s wrong at Liverpoolhttps://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3262490/Liverpool-s-head-technical-performance-Michael-Edwards-laptop-guru-did-number-Brendan-Rodgers.html

Probably ends the myth of DOF being more important then manager.

Here he is, 4 years later, praised as one of the best https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cityam.com/how-liverpool-sporting-director-michael-edwards-rose-to-the-very-top/amp/

What changed in that 4 years?