Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

[amolbhatia50k]

I'm not at sack Ole yet. But I am moving in that direction. He should get some more time but it's becoming pretty clear that he's nowhere near good enough. The return of Martial and Shaw somehow magically transforming us is the only thing I can see saving him. Becuase his management appears to be doing feck all. Basically I'm in the Ole isn't good enough phase I suppose which usually precedes the sacking one.

What do you think will be different with the next manager?

Better management. Better coaching. As in all fields, some people are (much) better /worse than others. So far, it appears Ole is not one of the better ones, let alone the best. So naturally a better manager would manage the team better, getting more out of the players/the team and peform better in this job.

I mean, as I said, I'm not at the point where I feel he should be sacked immediately. But this narrative among United fans and particularly the media that

• What can a manager do with this lot?
• Nothing would change with a new manager
• His hands are tied!
• We have manager change fatigue (this is the worst, let's keep a failing becuase were spoilt fans used to one man and can't deal with constant change). Change with a vision and with quality and it will do good.

Is creating fear among the fans and clouding logic

 

[Majima]

It ends when we find the right manager.

Ole Gunnar Solksjaer has been coaching these players for coming on 10 months, and he isn't a good enough coach.

He gets paid more than Jurgen Klopp ffs, more than Pochettino - and he's giving us very little in terms of quality coaching.

He's done. Let him go before it gets any messier.

This is Man Utd, not a fecking managerial training camp - which I literally can't believe I'm saying AGAIN after the Moyes era.

This is a job for a proper manager, this is a job for a coach who is ready to be at a club of this size.

He's going to be hell on earth to get rid of isn't he? All his media mates & deluded sentimental fans putting the pressure on the board. The board lost their nerve when Neville had a go at them for planning to sack Mourinho. Imagine what it's going to be like when Neville & co find out their mate is about to be sacked?

 

[amolbhatia50k]

So he messes up in this role big time only to get a promotion because of it? Jeez no wonder why we're in shambles

I also contemplated Ole as DoF one time but it's a stupid suggestion really. We need people with excellence at their job rather than handing out known faces who merely follow some principals laid down by a legendary manager.

I mean, many people sitting at home also believe in SAFs ideas. Maybe they should be contenders for manager and DoF of Manchester United too?

 

[amolbhatia50k]

He's going to be hell on earth to get rid of isn't he? All his media mates & deluded sentimental fans putting the pressure on the board. The board wet themselves and lost their nerve when Neville had a go at them for planning to sack Mourinho. Imagine what it's going to be like when Neville & co find out their mate is about to be sacked?

It's going to be difficult.

We cocked up badly. When we hired Ole as temporary manager, it was the perfect opportunity to sort out this mess. We should have used his caretaker period to take stock and find the best man for the job. I suppose not much damage has been done - he's signed some good players. But the next appointment has got to be the right one. And yes, Ole is going to difficult to fire. He's got a lot of goodwill at the club.

 

[Majima]

It's going to be difficult.

We cocked up badly. When we hired Ole as temporary manager, it was the perfect opportunity to sort out this mess. We should have used his caretaker period to take stock and find the best man for the job. I suppose not much damage has been done - he's signed some good players. But the next appointment has got to be the right one. And yes, Ole is going to difficult to fire. He's got a lot of goodwill at the club.

Yep we sure should have. I was right behind his caretaker appointment as I thought we were doing things the intelligent way, conducting a thorough hiring process instead of the reactive approach. Then the permanent job happened...

I can see it coming a mile off. I believe it's already starting now with people being very, very soft in the media towards him considering our results and performances.

Starting from the end of last season (even when he got the permanent job really), we've been in relegation form and forget results, just the performances, this is the worst I've seen us ever, which is a big achievement in itself considering the last 6 years we've had...

But if you only listened to the media, you would think he's doing a great job, he's unlucky and we're going places, 'just needs time' they say.

 

[Class of 63]

This is a job for a proper manager, this is a job for a coach who is ready to be at a club of this size.

What, a proper Manager like LvG or Jose Mourinho?

 

[Class of 63]

Thank you for that excellent insight. I really learned a lot there. Bravo.

No worries mate, i'm here for the people.

 

[devilish]

I also contemplated Ole as DoF one time but it's a stupid suggestion really. We need people with excellence at their job rather than handing out known faces who merely follow some principals laid down by a legendary manager.

I mean, many people sitting at home also believe in SAFs ideas. Maybe they should be contenders for manager and DoF of Manchester United too?

Do we really need a DOF to discover the likes of Maguire and AWB and to take Giggs recommendations regarding James at heart? Of course not. The guy is pure PR. His tactics are crap, his faith in kids is idealistic to the point of childish ...all he's good at is to sit down to interviews.

Also lets stop with this romantised version of Sir Alex shall we? Sir Alex followed no principals whatsoever. The same Sir Alex who raised/bought youths is the same Sir Alex who bought 11 players in 2 summer transfer windows between 1988 and 1989 and he's also the same guy who added the likes of Larsson, Owen, Sheringham and RVP to the squad as well. Same with this foreign bias nonsense. Sir Alex transfers was never shy in adding foreign talent. He would have added more if only the club backed him with the likes of Batistuta and Salas.

All that Sir Alex cared was to win as soon as possible and to keep on winning for as long as it is possible. Unlike Mourinho he wasn't naive to think that the club will keep bankrolling him forever so he used his resources wisely and unlike Ole he wouldn't rely on a bunch of average players simply because of nationality. Sure he had the class of 92. However despite the talent was pretty evident, he waited up until they were in their early 20s, he introduced them gradually and when necessary he added new players to the team even if that meant putting top top young players on the bench/in different roles. Teddy Sheringham with Scholes in midfield is a classic example to that while Beckham would have suffered the same fate if only the board could persuade Spurs to let Anderton go. So its not like Sir Alex would just throw a pack of young random kids at OT and let United burn because of them. That's not Sir Alex way.

 

[Class of 63]

Baffling how this guy actually believes himself to be better than other people who want Ole sacked

 

[devilish]

What, a proper Manager like LvG or Jose Mourinho?

both Mourinho and LVG were already on the wane. United were basically their swan song, the last big fat paycheck. Mou is hoping he'll be able to add another big paycheck to that. We need to think of the future rather then the past. Ole himself haven't won the league since 2012 and had surrounded himself with former players with no experience and a dinosaur from Sir Alex administration

 

[Rhyme Animal]

What, a proper Manager like LvG or Jose Mourinho?

Yes, LvG and Jose Mourinho are the only proper managers out there, aren't they?

There's LvG, Mourinho... and then nobody else other than managerial dross from the Norwegian League. That's reality isn't it?

As an aside though, I'd gladly take the trophy winning exploits of LvG and Mourinho over the Moyesian misery fest that OGS' reign is turning out to be.

 

[Andy Parker]

I will never understand the impatience and instant success culture of the modern fan. Ole is one of us and we should give him at least two years and back him fully in several transfer windows. The managerial merry-go-round needs to stop. We need to be patient and give him time. The only way we will get success in the future is if we are patient and allow a manager to build on his vision with backing in transfers in and out.

 

[Class of 63]

both Mourinho and LVG were already on the wane. United were basically their swan song, the last big fat paycheck. Mou is hoping he'll be able to add another big paycheck to that. We need to think of the future rather then the past. Ole himself haven't won the league since 2012 and had surrounded himself with former players with no experience and a dinosaur from Sir Alex administration

Hit us with a name then, a Manager who will guarantee taking us back to the promised land, and don't say Allegri, I suggested him a year ago and I had 15 posters pounce on me within minutes saying I was an idiot who knew nothing, and I don't think they were generalising.

Who is da Man?

 

[Varun]

If we could get a Ten Haag or Negelsmann along with a DoF, I'd sack him today.

If it's another round of cluelessness, I'd rather wait and see who becomes available

 

[devilish]

Hit us with a name then, a Manager who will guarantee taking us back to the promised land, and don't say Allegri, I suggested him a year ago and I had 15 posters pounce on me within minutes saying I was an idiot who knew nothing, and I don't think they were generalising.

Who is da Man?

The manager alone won't sort this mess. We need a serious restructure first with the financial part being separated from the football side and with top football people being introduced at DOF, recruitment, managerial, coaching level and possible CEO level as well. However it doesn't help having some random guy as manager either. Instead of increasing the quality at decision making level we're simply letting incompetence and inexperience shifting in at managerial level as well.

 

[Class of 63]

I will never understand the impatience and instant success culture of the modern fan. Ole is one of us and we should give him at least two years and back him fully in several transfer windows. The managerial merry-go-round needs to stop. We need to be patient and give him time. The only way we will get success in the future is if we are patient and allow a manager to build on his vision with backing in transfers in and out.

Good luck trying to talk sense on here mate.

 

[Gandalf Greyhame]

I don't know if we should sack him. But I do know that if we do, our club has zero idea of what factors to consider when we sign the next manager.

 

[Class of 63]

Yes, LvG and Jose Mourinho are the only proper managers out there, aren't they?

There's LvG, Mourinho... and then nobody else other than managerial dross from the Norwegian League. That's reality isn't it?

As an aside though, I'd gladly take the trophy winning exploits of LvG and Mourinho over the Moyesian misery fest that OGS' reign is turning out to be.

I might be 100% wrong on this, there is that possibility, but I think Ole will walk before he's pushed out. Not that he's likely to be pushed out anytime soon!

 

[Class of 63]

The manager alone won't sort this mess. We need a serious restructure first with the financial part being separated from the football side and with top football people being introduced at DOF, recruitment, managerial, coaching level and possible CEO level as well. However it doesn't help having some random guy as manager either. Instead of increasing the quality at decision making level we're simply letting incompetence and inexperience shifting in at managerial level as well.

Oh ffs, you edited your post whilst I was replying

Isn't there a serious restructure going on quietly in the background at the moment?

 

[VP]

I will never understand the impatience and instant success culture of the modern fan. Ole is one of us and we should give him at least two years and back him fully in several transfer windows. The managerial merry-go-round needs to stop. We need to be patient and give him time. The only way we will get success in the future is if we are patient and allow a manager to build on his vision with backing in transfers in and out.

Who said anything about success? I'd take us getting good at throw-ins at this stage.

What is Ole's vision? Almost every club in the league plays better football than us.

 

[OT1214]

What will another manager do with this current crop of players? Ole has a free ride here. Seems like board has given him full backing in terms of performance on the pitch. He should have balls to drop the underperforming seniors and play youngsters more. We are dropping points no matter who the opposition is, so might as well give the young ones a proper chance.

 

[1988]

Bit worried I must admit. I've been behind Solskjær ever since his appointment but lately I've disagreed with pretty much every single starting eleven and the results have been dire. Injuries hasn't helped obviously.

He seems to talk a lot of sense but I haven't really seen any of it turned into action. His "giving youth a chance" is half-hearted as we seem to keep playing Lingard, Young, Mata and Matić etc. He's playing players on reputation and favouritism. I would've much rather have seen more of Greenwood, Gomes, Chong, Garner and even Williams. Haven't seen a lot of the the high intensity pressing yet either.

I just don't see who we'd bring in at the moment. Pochettino if he gets the sack? I'm pretty sure he'd much rather take some time off and see his options around June instead of taking over a somewhat sinking ship halfway through the season.

I'm saying keep Solskjær for the remainder and see what's available when the season ends.

 

[Striker10]

Keep him. It's not a nice but we have to dig deep. I would like to see Pogba further forward . We need his quality more central. We need martial back. Not to compare him with Sir Alex....and their historys are different....but how many would have said fire Sir Alex before he got it right. We need to just focus on results not being reactionary.

 

[Yorkeontop]

Feels pointless either way, unless there's some reform on the football management side higher up.

 

[Grylte]

Keep

 

[redcafe_reader]

I would keep him.

Sacking him at the moment changes nothing. Who will come in and improve us right now? All good managers won't leave their club in the middle of the season to come to us. And then we may have the same situation again in the summer. If we didn't sack Mourinho in the middle of last season and wait, maybe we will push for Pochettino or other better managers? Why do we want to repeat that "mistake" again?

Also, just my opinion, I did see the improvement that Ole brings in, especially in terms of personnel. Besides his obsession with Lingard, I am actually fine with him.

 

[Omahahaha]

Sack him, it can't get much worse than it already is.

If we are looking at managers based on their CVs there should be 100s of better alternatives out there.

And for people saying "Yeah LVG and Mourinho had good CVs and they failed"; they were never this bad, and they each won trophies and finished top 4.

Sentimentality can be costly in the modern game. Our board is also a big problem, but we are not making it easier on ourselves with an out of his depth manager and coaching team
in charge of a kind of Class of 92 wannabe Brexit-vision. Right now we are just purely gambling and hoping for miracles.

 

[Abhinav]

I think people who believe Ole will be sacked before the end of season are in for a disappointment. Its my belief that Ole has a very different mandate than the other managers before him. The work he is doing now may earn him abuse from a lot of fans, but people will look back and appreciate his work 3/4 years down when we are top of the table. He has the job to get rid of the deadwood and build up the spine steadily. People question why he has got rid of Lukaku, Fellaini, Alexis if we don’t have adequate replacement? The reason is that after years of squandered investment we were left with a squad of overpaid players with little quality to show. New managers that came in added dross but had not intention to clean up the mess left behind primarily because they were under pressure to deliver immediate results and thus had a very short term vision.

The challenge was this - you have a player X who will contribute in the short term but in the long term is not the right player to get united to where they belong. In an ideal world you would buy a new player and try to sell off the asset. But when the player X is overvalued and overpaid, moving him along is a tough job and you will have to risk selling him even if you don’t find an adequate replacement. Otherwise you don’t have any room financially to add quality in the future. Replace player X with Lukaku, Sanchez, Fellaini, Smalling. Now we could have replaced the outgoings with targets that have been well scouted. I think the issue was two fold - The right targets were either unavailable or difficult to negotiate with; we were waiting for Outgoings to be confirmed before we commit to deals. Add to that our incompetence in getting deals through, you are left with the short term mess that is the squad for the season.

If I were to guess, this would be his goal sheet:

- Identify and get rid of as many deadwoods as possible that do not align with the squad of the future
- Identify and add quality players that will be the spine for the next 4-5 years
- Integrate youth players into the first team squad and get them ready for the future
- Aim to qualify for CL via top4/EL. Finish top 6 at worst. Unless we are fighting relegation, I don’t see him going before the season

The reason Ole is tasked with this job and not Poch/ Tuchel etc could either be because either they were not interested in being patient and carrying out this rebuild; or/and appointing Poch/Tuchel will raise immediate expectations from the media/fans and they wouldn’t be afforded the time and patience to carry it through. At the heart of this is years of bad squad management that came about because we had no vision/footballing identity and chased short term success buy appointing the wrong managers and buying the wrong players.

 

[devilish]

Oh ffs, you edited your post whilst I was replying

Isn't there a serious restructure going on quietly in the background at the moment?

What restructuring? We haven't hired a DOF and we replaced a seasoned goalkeeper coach with some guy who worked with Ole in his glory days at Cardiff. If you are referring to the fact that we allowed players like herrera and Lukaku go without bothering replacing them then that was more of dismantling the side rather then restructuring it.

The guy is out of depth. Everything from his tactics, his naive attitude regarding kids and his obsession to anything British is clear testament to that. I see ole more of yet another example of the problem rather then the problem itself. However he is certainly not the solution to it far from it.

 

[Florida Man]

What do you think will be different with the next manager?

Hopefully something that resembles football

 

[markhrad]

It really does not matter if he stays or someone replaces him. I think the Glazers feel that to appease the fans that hate them they place undue emphasis on English players and so any manager coming in feels compelled to tow the line.
All our fans want to win but I get the feeling that English fans want to win with an English player as the main man. I cannot blame them after all Utd is an English team. We have bought a fair amount of good attackers over the years but after Fergie left each manager sacrificed them to appease first Rooney then Rashford fans. These two players do not link up well with other strikers. People finally realized that Rooney could never bring us success as the main striker and it took a very self-assured manager like Mourinho to get him out of that main man role.
Then the fans wanted Rashford to be the one and he was constantly defended despite clearly being not good enough. Lukaku despite being a bit clumsy has all the tools to be a superstar striker and Ole with his experience should have been able to help Lukaku to get even better I mean after all the man is only 26 and is the main striker of the world's number ranked national football team. Unfortunately, to keep Lukaku would mean that Rashford would probably never get the chance to lead our team so of course Lukaku was vilified as was Nani, DiMaria, Falcao etc. He was called lazy, out of shape and of course branded as having a low football IQ. While Rashford was full of supreme potential, high football IQ etc and when he played badly he was unlucky or playing with an injury which of course showed the love he had for the club and his bravery.
Now that fans realize that Rashford really is not that good they will look for another English youngster to pin their hopes on and any new manager will have to put up with that.
Jose was the only manager that stood up against this and despite what fans may say he is our most successful manager post-Fergie, 2 trophies and a 2nd place league finish, but he brought in Zlatan and then Lukaku which did not sit well with some fans.
Ole comes in relegates Lukaku and promotes Rashford and everyone loved him. He then gets rid of Lukaku and buys 3 British players, none of which are world class attackers.
If Mourinho and Van Gaal could not survive here with their strong personalities I don't know if there is any manager out there that could make a difference.

 

[Ace of Spades]

Keep for now.

 

[7even]

I would keep him.

Sacking him at the moment changes nothing. Who will come in and improve us right now? All good managers won't leave their club in the middle of the season to come to us. And then we may have the same situation again in the summer. If we didn't sack Mourinho in the middle of last season and wait, maybe we will push for Pochettino or other better managers? Why do we want to repeat that "mistake" again?

Also, just my opinion, I did see the improvement that Ole brings in, especially in terms of personnel. Besides his obsession with Lingard, I am actually fine with him.

I have to disagree and I will give you a couple of reasons.

1. As long as we don’t have a quality defensive mid this 4231 nonsense has to stop. Despite a long run of horrendous results we don’t change formation or play our only creative players in his best position. That’s inexcusable.

2. At the moment our forward line is totally out of sync. Rashford is lost and out of form but it doesn’t help him that a injury free Martial is a our preferred striker and Dan James is our preferred left sided forward. Speaking of Martial who’s is trying his best but it’s obvious that he will not score enough goals as a striker. Finally we have James who’s flying but without Lukaku he don’t have target inside the penalty area and therefore his contribution becomes ineffective.

3. Using Periera and Lingard as starters tells you everything you needs to now about the quality of our squad. Any manager with functional eyes and a brain could foresee this.

4. Going into a new season with Matic as our only defensive mid is criminal. McTominay is doing ok but his best position is as a number 8. Yesterday was a testament of that and his best moments of the game was going forward.

Solksjaer has totally misjudged the quality of our squad. His staring lines up are often dysfunctional. His coaching is questionable, to put it mildly, and he don’t have the confidence and skills to change things when his initial plan doesn’t work.

I can go on but the person in charge must change formation and move Pogba further up the field. That’s a must if we’re going to score more goals with this squad. A new manager isn’t ideal but keeping a clueless manager isn’t either.

 

[humdinger]

He’s not a top class manager, and we shouldn’t have hired him permanently. However I wouldn’t sack him unless we had a quality replacement lined up and a coherent strategy - what would be the point? I just don’t trust the club to get the next appointment right to be honest.

 

[Skills]

Yes, LvG and Jose Mourinho are the only proper managers out there, aren't they?

There's LvG, Mourinho... and then nobody else other than managerial dross from the Norwegian League. That's reality isn't it?

As an aside though, I'd gladly take the trophy winning exploits of LvG and Mourinho over the Moyesian misery fest that OGS' reign is turning out to be.

Yeah people are incredible. It's like there's 2 categories of managers, and non-proven. And there's literally no difference between the proven ones.

If only we stuck with Atkinson for another 20 years

 

[OnlyTwoDaSilvas]

Is there an example within the last 10 years of 'giving a manager time' where it has paid off? From being totally aimless on the pitch, to then winning? Klopp and Pep weren't majorly successful at the start but you could see their impact tactically, and what the direction was at least. You could see they were a few players away from it coming together.

I just don't see Ole going from playing this kind of awful football where we can't even string 3 passes together, to challenging for a title in a year or two. A manager should be having an instant impact. He did at the beginning, because he was good at not being Jose Mourinho. But that was never enough, and that's what we're seeing. You look at the impact Rodgers has had at Leicester, and it's not just new manager bounce, it's because he's a smart manager tactically and he has an actual approach, even if it can be a little naive at times. It doesn't seem like Ole does, and that is a concern. I don't envisage it just clicking.

That said, I have no idea who could come in right now and get this squad playing either. It's paper thin and poorly planned.

 

[sugar_kane]

Keep. At least for this season.

He’s almost certainly not the main to take us back to the very top but he seems to have the right idea about who to sign, who to sell, how to play and what direction we should be going in as a club.

It’s very easy to see that our biggest challenge right now is quality but he needs at least a couple more windows to address this.

Plus it will piss off loads of moaning tossers on here and twitter which is always fun.

 

[Ainu]

I will never understand the impatience and instant success culture of the modern fan. Ole is one of us and we should give him at least two years and back him fully in several transfer windows. The managerial merry-go-round needs to stop. We need to be patient and give him time. The only way we will get success in the future is if we are patient and allow a manager to build on his vision with backing in transfers in and out.

The issue with this is you only want to give time to a manager who has already shown he's worthy of that time. Just giving time to anyone will not end well. Has Solskjaer shown enough in his managerial career that he's here on merit? There's taking a calculated risk, which pretty much any new manager is, and then there's taking a blind, hope-for-the-best-against-all-odds risk. The only thing we have to go on is his time at Molde and the fact we all love him as an ex-player. But is that really enough?

 

[Bobcat]

You'd have to say keep him, but he isn't making the best case for it. He's obviously not the best tactically, and we look absolutely bereft of ideas going forward. So disjointed, and toothless. Really is Moyes level stuff.

But we gave him 3 years, and the club seem to be briefing that we've hit the reset button and it's different this time. You have to let him see it through. His signings have been good, so at the very least he'll leave the squad in a better place than he found it.

My thoughts as well. As long as there are no realistic replacements lined up, what point is there really in sacking him now? Fans being frustrated and demanding blood is not really a valid reason

 

[Massive Spanner]

I kept saying there's no point in sacking him because I can't think of any replacements worth getting til the end of the season, but at this point I think he's such a dreadful manager, arguably the worst in the PL, that it is actually probably worth sacking him and getting in someone better, because it's probably not going to be difficult to find that someone.