Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

[Di Maria's angel]

Does that draw against City still seem impressive?

 

[FatherWolff]

Does that draw against City still seem impressive?

No, it never did. Neither did the doom and gloom.

 

[Rightnr]

WBA really bounced back there. Going places drawing against teams like Man Citeh.

 

[laughtersassassin]

No, it never did. Neither did the doom and gloom.

Doom and gloom wasn't one game dependant. In fact we just got knocked out of the CL.

Hardly a reason to be happy with the club, our direction, our management or anything really.

Things aren't great at the minute.

Sure we arent far off the top of the league but everyone is fairly crap. Think it's very reasonable to be critical no?

 

[DRJosh]

Do people's opinion on Ole change in response to how badly the other top 4 big teams are performing? It seems that every time a top team stumbles, there are more vehement calls on the Caf to keep him on because "average" is the new normal?

Could just be me.

I am still of the opinion that Ole did a wonderful job serving us well in tumultuous times after Mourinho but it is now his turn to take a bow and leave graciously at the end of this season, with the knowledge that he contributed purposefully to our rebuilding efforts.

 

[Leftback99]

Does that draw against City still seem impressive?

No but the win against West Brom does if that's how this works?

 

[Kajus]

Does that draw against City still seem impressive?

You need professional help.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

You need professional help.

8 years as newbie. Can see why.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

No but the win against West Brom does if that's how this works?

Yeah, why the hell not.

 

[Bilbo]

Hence why managers are losing their jobs.

Chelsea’s average position is 4th, but Frank will be out on his arse for that finish after his spending.

Chelsea have gone through more managers than us, and have 2 league titles to show for it.
They have rewarded a 10th placed finish with the sack and a league title the following season, and Mourinho followed up a 3rd place finish with a title, and still got sacked the following season, resulting in that title I mentioned earlier.
Cause “standards”.

Only reason Frank made it through last year was the transfer ban, he won’t get away with it this season as Chelsea/Roman have those standards.

You're right and you're wrong. Chelsea have won the title only 5 times in the last 16 years, and I'm being a little generous with that because those 16 years start from when Jose won it in 04/05 & 05/06. Since then, 3 in 14.

What Chelsea do works in a certain way for them. They tick along and win trophies yes, but they haven't ever really dominated. The way they run that club lends itself towards peaks and troughs. I don't think United really think that way. When we get it right, we get it REALLY right. Our mindset has always been to try to build something that will sustain over a number of seasons, and I believe that is what we are trying to do right now.

It comes down to preference, but I much prefer the way that United choose to run this club.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

People need to realise that the number of games the big teams have played since project restart is taking a huge toll on them. It's no wonder we've got Westham and Southampton up near top. Even Spurs went out of Europe early. They are massively benefitting.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

Hence why managers are losing their jobs.

Chelsea’s average position is 4th, but Frank will be out on his arse for that finish after his spending.

Chelsea have gone through more managers than us, and have 2 league titles to show for it.
They have rewarded a 10th placed finish with the sack and a league title the following season, and Mourinho followed up a 3rd place finish with a title, and still got sacked the following season, resulting in that title I mentioned earlier.
Cause “standards”.

Only reason Frank made it through last year was the transfer ban, he won’t get away with it this season as Chelsea/Roman have those standards.

Hypocrisy at its finest. You were arguing with me just 1 week ago about how the narrative is justly different for Chelsea.

Well well well....

 

[el3mel]

Does that draw against City still seem impressive?

I said it, people need to stop overrating them based on their form 2 years ago. They're not the same team who won the league with 100 points.

 

[Bilbo]

Great opportunity to pick up some points over rivals for Thursday, but if we play shit I'd be wary of blaming Ole as much now. Just look at how everyone else is playing, it's tough to avoid pointing at relative circumstance here.

It is tough. I think you and I had this discussion a few weeks back. Quality football will be there in patches, but the team that puts a run of results together are going to have to grind that out quite often. Its why I'm wasn't overly concerned with those comeback wins being patchy. Those points are priceless this season.

 

[el3mel]

Anyway, tomorrow is a great opportunity to jump some places in the league and widen the gab with City even more. We're facing by far the worst team in the league and a guaranteed relegated one. Should be a comfortable 3-0/4-0 win night with fun and lots of goals.

I hope we don't screw it up.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Hypocrisy at its finest. You were arguing with me just 1 week ago about how the narrative is justly different for Chelsea.

Well well well....

hmmm... I wrote this tonight in the Lampard sack watch thread:

It’s been early and they had only lost once to you lot all season, but after these past 2 results he will face it now.

As I said to you a week ago, he’d lost one all season (to the Champions) and was through in CL, hence the narrative being positive despite the league points total not being anything to shout home about.
Since then he’s lost 2 on the bounce and well well... the narrative is instantly changing in the media.

If you think that backs up your point, well you gotta laugh.

 

[Leftback99]

Anyway, tomorrow is a great opportunity to jump some places in the league and widen the gab with City even more. We're facing by far the worst team in the league and a guaranteed relegated one. Should be a comfortable 3-0/4-0 win night with fun and lots of goals.

I hope we don't screw it up.

Thursday. But surely results like tonight and Liverpool on Sunday tell you not to be expecting any easy game. They are not 'far worse' than WBA and Fulham.

 

[RedSky]

People need to realise that the number of games the big teams have played since project restart is taking a huge toll on them. It's no wonder we've got Westham and Southampton up near top. Even Spurs went out of Europe early. They are massively benefitting.

It's frustrating people don't accept this. Here's the full table since restart. Nobody has looked solid, everyone is struggling with the amount of games. We've managed covid well on the whole.

​

Club​	Games​	W​	D​	L​	Win %​	Draw %​	Loss %​	Pts Per Game​	CS​	GF​	GA​	GD​
Manchester Utd​	20​	12​	5​	3​	60.0%​	25.0%​	15.0%​	2.05​	8​	41​	23​	18​
Tottenham​	21​	12​	7​	2​	57.1%​	33.3%​	9.5%​	2.05​	9​	38​	17​	21​
Manchester City​	22​	13​	5​	4​	59.1%​	22.7%​	18.2%​	2.00​	12​	52​	16​	36​
Liverpool​	21​	12​	6​	3​	57.1%​	28.6%​	14.3%​	2.00​	6​	46​	30​	16​
Southampton​	21​	12​	5​	4​	57.1%​	23.8%​	19.0%​	1.95​	8​	40​	25​	15​
Chelsea​	22​	12​	4​	6​	54.5%​	18.2%​	27.3%​	1.82​	8​	44​	29​	15​
Wolves​	22​	11​	3​	8​	50.0%​	13.6%​	36.4%​	1.64​	9​	23​	23​	0​
Leicester​	21​	10​	3​	8​	47.6%​	14.3%​	38.1%​	1.57​	7​	33​	28​	5​
Everton​	21​	9​	5​	7​	42.9%​	23.8%​	33.3%​	1.52​	5​	28​	28​	0​
West Ham​	20​	8​	5​	7​	40.0%​	25.0%​	35.0%​	1.45​	5​	32​	26​	6​
Aston Villa​	20​	8​	4​	8​	40.0%​	20.0%​	40.0%​	1.40​	8​	28​	24​	4​
Arsenal​	22​	9​	2​	11​	40.9%​	9.1%​	50.0%​	1.32​	6​	26​	27​	-1​
Newcastle​	20​	7​	5​	8​	35.0%​	25.0%​	40.0%​	1.30​	4​	27​	33​	-6​
Burnley​	20​	6​	6​	8​	30.0%​	30.0%​	40.0%​	1.20​	8​	15​	28​	-13​
Brighton​	21​	5​	7​	9​	23.8%​	33.3%​	42.9%​	1.05​	5​	22​	35​	-13​
Crystal Palace​	21​	6​	3​	12​	28.6%​	14.3%​	57.1%​	1.00​	2​	23​	35​	-12​
Sheffield Utd​	22​	3​	3​	16​	13.6%​	13.6%​	72.7%​	0.55​	3​	14​	35​	-21​

​

 

[90 + 5min]

Serious? There are still people going on about Solskjaer? After City WBA game? I guess witchhunt never stops. I am amazed Solskjaer didn’t get blame and calls for sacking for Brexit, Climate change or wars in middle east. Yet.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

It's frustrating people don't accept this. Here's the full table since restart. Nobody has looked solid, everyone is struggling with the amount of games. We've managed covid well on the whole.

​

Club​	Games​	W​	D​	L​	Win %​	Draw %​	Loss %​	Pts Per Game​	CS​	GF​	GA​	GD​
Manchester Utd​	20​	12​	5​	3​	60.0%​	25.0%​	15.0%​	2.05​	8​	41​	23​	18​
Tottenham​	21​	12​	7​	2​	57.1%​	33.3%​	9.5%​	2.05​	9​	38​	17​	21​
Manchester City​	22​	13​	5​	4​	59.1%​	22.7%​	18.2%​	2.00​	12​	52​	16​	36​
Liverpool​	21​	12​	6​	3​	57.1%​	28.6%​	14.3%​	2.00​	6​	46​	30​	16​
Southampton​	21​	12​	5​	4​	57.1%​	23.8%​	19.0%​	1.95​	8​	40​	25​	15​
Chelsea​	22​	12​	4​	6​	54.5%​	18.2%​	27.3%​	1.82​	8​	44​	29​	15​
Wolves​	22​	11​	3​	8​	50.0%​	13.6%​	36.4%​	1.64​	9​	23​	23​	0​
Leicester​	21​	10​	3​	8​	47.6%​	14.3%​	38.1%​	1.57​	7​	33​	28​	5​
Everton​	21​	9​	5​	7​	42.9%​	23.8%​	33.3%​	1.52​	5​	28​	28​	0​
West Ham​	20​	8​	5​	7​	40.0%​	25.0%​	35.0%​	1.45​	5​	32​	26​	6​
Aston Villa​	20​	8​	4​	8​	40.0%​	20.0%​	40.0%​	1.40​	8​	28​	24​	4​
Arsenal​	22​	9​	2​	11​	40.9%​	9.1%​	50.0%​	1.32​	6​	26​	27​	-1​
Newcastle​	20​	7​	5​	8​	35.0%​	25.0%​	40.0%​	1.30​	4​	27​	33​	-6​
Burnley​	20​	6​	6​	8​	30.0%​	30.0%​	40.0%​	1.20​	8​	15​	28​	-13​
Brighton​	21​	5​	7​	9​	23.8%​	33.3%​	42.9%​	1.05​	5​	22​	35​	-13​
Crystal Palace​	21​	6​	3​	12​	28.6%​	14.3%​	57.1%​	1.00​	2​	23​	35​	-12​
Sheffield Utd​	22​	3​	3​	16​	13.6%​	13.6%​	72.7%​	0.55​	3​	14​	35​	-21​

​

This is the league though right?

20 games in 26 week doesn’t seem extreme and I think NouCamp’s point was that we’ve played more than anyone. So how many games total have we played in those 26 weeks?

Edit: 33 I think? Is that right? 1.26 games per week?

Spurs who NouCamp’s feels have benefited from this have played 31, so that actually doesn’t add up.

Southampton I think have played 21, so a fair bit less football for them. Probs West Ham too as he mentioned.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

There should be no reason we don't challenge for the title this season.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

There should be no reason we don't challenge for the title this season.

Pretty sure the new narrative is that everyone is dropping points so we should all be fine with us doing it also.
Don’t be expecting to see a weak league season as an opportunity, it’s a chance to excuse your own team for poor results.

 

[Dve]

Pretty sure the new narrative is that everyone is dropping points so we should all be fine with us doing it also.
Don’t be expecting to see a weak league season as an opportunity, it’s a chance to excuse your own team for poor results.

That´s not a new narrative, that´s just reality. We will not win every game, and neither will any other team. And we might still win the league.

 

[Anybody's Guess]

'Rivals' dropping points? Lower expectations on your own team and manager even further!

 

[justsomebloke]

Pretty sure the new narrative is that everyone is dropping points so we should all be fine with us doing it also.
Don’t be expecting to see a weak league season as an opportunity, it’s a chance to excuse your own team for poor results.

Obviously it's an opportunity. But it's probably also safe to assume it's not entirely coincidental that you're seeing this level of inconsistency from all the top clubs. Don't run yourself into a corner by deciding in advance that anyone who points this out is just out to make excuses. The same factors that are causing difficulties for City and Chelsea are causing difficulties for us too. The clubs who had no football in August have an advantage over those who did, and the clubs who are not in Europe have an advantage over those who are. That this has an impact is i think pretty clear by now.

 

[RedSky]

This is the league though right?

20 games in 26 week doesn’t seem extreme and I think NouCamp’s point was that we’ve played more than anyone. So how many games total have we played in those 26 weeks?

Edit: 33 I think? Is that right? 1.26 games per week?

Spurs who NouCamp’s feels have benefited from this have played 31, so that actually doesn’t add up.

Southampton I think have played 21, so a fair bit less football for them. Probs West Ham too as he mentioned.

Thats league only correct. If you take Southampton as a guide, they've played 1 additional game post lockdown, we've played 13 games extra. The schedule is just warming up though, from now till around Feberuary we play a match almost every 3 days. It benefits the teams that have played outside of Europe, they've had a relatively normal season uptil the last week or two. But now they'll face the same issues the rest of us have had.

Either way, if you look at the points we've dropped this season it's been mostly against the top teams with the exception of Palace on the opening day and obviously the Arsenal result. We've not dropped many dumb points and we're actually doing better than last season. Beat Sheffield Utd and we'll be up to 23 points which will be our 3rd highest points total after 12 games in the last 8 seasons. Only 3 points behind Joses' 'miracle' 2nd place finish season.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Beat Sheffield Utd and we'll be up to 23 points which will be our 3rd highest points total after 12 games in the last 8 seasons. Only 3 points behind Joses' 'miracle' 2nd place finish season.

That’s actually a really fecking good post, why can’t the NouCamp’s, Ollebois etc of the caf actually enlighten with cold hard relevant stats like this? Rather than the bullshit “since then”, “since this” garbage.
Let’s hope we carry on our away form then, that’s cheered me up somewhat.

 

[RedSky]

That’s actually a really fecking good post, why can’t the NouCamp’s, Ollebois etc of the caf actually enlighten with cold hard relevant stats like this? Rather than the bullshit “since then”, “since this” garbage.
Let’s hope we carry on our away form then, that’s cheered me up somewhat.

Yeah, we've been decent with results. We may not all agree with Oles play style and we all get frustrated by our inconsistent performances. But our results have been pretty damn good and the promising thing from my perspective is that Ole seems to be able to get this team to average around 2 points a game. Continue with that form and we'll be finishing in the high 70's which will be a signficant step up and not far behind Jose's best season finish. It's a long season mind, but we've been consistent for 11 months and this gives me hope that we've stepped it up a gear in the league. To put it into context, we've only broken 70 points tiwce since Sir Alex retired, if we can get mid 70's this season then i'll be impressed and consider that progress.

 

[meamth]

Yeah, we've been decent with results. We may not all agree with Oles play style and we all get frustrated by our inconsistent performances. But our results have been pretty damn good and the promising thing from my perspective is that Ole seems to be able to get this team to average around 2 points a game. Continue with that form and we'll be finishing in the high 70's which will be a signficant step up and not far behind Jose's best season finish. It's a long season mind, but we've been consistent for 11 months and this gives me hope that we've stepped it up a gear in the league. To put it into context, we've only broken 70 points tiwce since Sir Alex retired, if we can get mid 70's this season then i'll be impressed and consider that progress.

Aye, we just need the forwards to get their shit together.

Martial needs his mojo back,
Rashford must cut out his brainfart moments.

Defense to stop being shocking at the first half.

Fix those problems and we can go places.

 

[bond19821982]

Anyway, tomorrow is a great opportunity to jump some places in the league and widen the gab with City even more. We're facing by far the worst team in the league and a guaranteed relegated one. Should be a comfortable 3-0/4-0 win night with fun and lots of goals.

I hope we don't screw it up.

Not really. SFU has been bad but they have had some good performances but the quality just hasn't been there. I would take an 95th minute own goal 1-0 win right now

 

[VP89]

Not really. SFU has been bad but they have had some good performances but the quality just hasn't been there. I would take an 95th minute own goal 1-0 win right now

They have 1 point out of a possible 33 right? I can get being unlucky but that's a side we should be walking against.

 

[VP89]

It is tough. I think you and I had this discussion a few weeks back. Quality football will be there in patches, but the team that puts a run of results together are going to have to grind that out quite often. Its why I'm wasn't overly concerned with those comeback wins being patchy. Those points are priceless this season.

They are, I think at first it was easy to point to Ole as Leicester, City, Liverpool and Spurs (and even Chelsea) looked sharper.

But now these teams look lethargic like we did earlier on, so something is definitely different this year. The likes of VDB, Telles, Cavani and even a possible January signing like Trippier can do wonders for squad depth to keep us in it.

 

[lysglimt]

They have 1 point out of a possible 33 right? I can get being unlucky but that's a side we should be walking against.

Well - look at their goal difference. They have lost 11 games and have a gd of -16. Add to that - since they got promoted to the P.L - they have lost 2 matches at home by more than 1 goal (Newcastle and Wolves)

So yes of course we should win - but no one should expect that we win by 3 or 4 goals.

 

[mancave bear]

"Not making it"? Well, that depends on what you expect. For my part, I expected him to spend at least a year being worse than we'd been before he took over, and then gradually build up a contender over years 2 and 3. I would have been disappointed if the club proceeded on any other basis, because it was obvious that this was what was required if we wanted to become a top team again. What he inherited, you couldn't patchwork into a contender. Building a team takes time. And I'd much, much, much rather have team that can compete for titles many years ahead in 1-2 seasons, than one that can maybe get to second right now. The squad is not there yet.

If your expectation is that any manager needs to win within two years or he's out, you want something that is bad for the club. The whole entitlement thing is just ridiculous. "We're United, and not winning isn't acceptable to me, and if you don't give me what I want, you should be kicked out". Pfft. Being United doesn't mean anything, unless it means something that you continuously recreate again and again. To do that, you need a team capable of doing it. If we make bad decisions, we'll lose, same as anyone else. And we've had a decade of bad decisions. If you want it fixed, have some patience, because there isn't a quick fix. And no, two years is not a long time.

Well said. We need to patient. And we have a young team.

 

[He'sRaldo]

Well said. We need to patient. And we have a young team.

Not sure we do actually. We have a lot of prime aged players, with a few younger and older ones.

 

[sammsky1]

"Not making it"? Well, that depends on what you expect. For my part, I expected him to spend at least a year being worse than we'd been before he took over, and then gradually build up a contender over years 2 and 3. I would have been disappointed if the club proceeded on any other basis, because it was obvious that this was what was required if we wanted to become a top team again. What he inherited, you couldn't patchwork into a contender. Building a team takes time. And I'd much, much, much rather have team that can compete for titles many years ahead in 1-2 seasons, than one that can maybe get to second right now. The squad is not there yet.

If your expectation is that any manager needs to win within two years or he's out, you want something that is bad for the club. The whole entitlement thing is just ridiculous. "We're United, and not winning isn't acceptable to me, and if you don't give me what I want, you should be kicked out". Pfft. Being United doesn't mean anything, unless it means something that you continuously recreate again and again. To do that, you need a team capable of doing it. If we make bad decisions, we'll lose, same as anyone else. And we've had a decade of bad decisions. If you want it fixed, have some patience, because there isn't a quick fix. And no, two years is not a long time.

Such a brilliant post and the only perspective that is viable when we don’t have nations or limitless petrodollars behind us.

And I also think you for pointing out the utter hypocrisy of OleOUTers, with their deluded expectations and ever changing goalposts.

 

[sammsky1]

100 %

We all wanted it to work but he's not good enough plain and simple !

Evidence of ‘not working’ please

 

[shahzy]

They have 1 point out of a possible 33 right? I can get being unlucky but that's a side we should be walking against.

We should. But we are Man Utd under Ole. No result is surprising. We could win 5-0 and I wouldn't be surprised. We could lose 5-0 and I also wouldn't be surprised

 

[sammsky1]

Not sure we do actually. We have a lot of prime aged players, with a few younger and older ones.

Evidence please. Compare average or median age of our most regular starting XI vs other top 10 teams please. I know the numbers, would be good if you did too.

 

[sammsky1]

That’s actually a really fecking good post, why can’t the NouCamp’s, Ollebois etc of the caf actually enlighten with cold hard relevant stats like this? Rather than the bullshit “since then”, “since this” garbage.
Let’s hope we carry on our away form then, that’s cheered me up somewhat.

Why didn’t you do some of your own fact based research?