I think it will be either Spurs or Chelsea in that 4th spot.
Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)
- Thread starter MrSingh2002
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Are the views from the NSC mostly positive?
Where to start? I love Solskjaer, but you are giving his achivements in Norway too much credit. It was impressive to win the league twice with Molde but the titles coincided with Rosenborg being shit as well as Kjell Inge Røkke investing heavily in Molde. Even if you disagree with these points here, how are two Noggie title wins relevant to managing the biggest club in the world?
I think we, as Norwegians, can hold our hands up and admit that the Noggie league IS shit.
I’m just getting irked by Norwegian United fans who defend OGS just because he’s got the same passport as us. Look at the Norwegian Supporter’s Club - I’m sure you are also a member - the commentary fields are naive at best. Ignorant at worst.
As I said many times: I didn't want him as interim and I didn't want him as permanent manager because I knew this would be the result. Now we have to get rid of him and I'd much rather we didn't have to go through this with Solskjær at the helm.
Most definitely! They have even established a FB group that has been basically declared a «no negativity zone».
I will stay away from that then.
Good call
The idea itself is good, to have a place to discuss without constant bickering but it just feels very naive. And like I said, if he wasn’t Norwegian they wouldn’t have gone to such lengths.
Boring negative, defensive shite is what he will be remembered for.
I don't see him as negative but rather that he's not good enough to coach attacking play.
He definitely wants to be attacking, but it’s just not coming together. Injuries doesn’t help, of course.
I think you're right. It's not that Solskjaer wants us to play this way, but rather he doesn't possess the requisite coaching skills to implement an effective attacking system.
When did you turn?
Oh I was never Ole in, I’ve just kept my trap shut in respect.
Nationality-bias really shouldn’t play any part when judging him. As a manager, he’s not up to the job.
I haven't said otherwise.
Never implied you did, it was more a general observation.
Alright.
So what is your stance, as a matter of interest?
If we are going by there previous success (in this case in the Norwegian league), I guess we should have not sacked Jose at all, even if he got us relegated because he won the ducking treble with Inter. Stupid argument.
Ole doesn’t have one redeeming quality as a manager. Tactically clueless, very defensive coach. Easily the worst we have had since I started watching us.
Ole doesn’t have one redeeming quality as a manager. Tactically clueless, very defensive coach. Easily the worst we have had since I started watching us.
That Solskjær should never have been hired. I was against him getting the interim role and could see this coming from the off.
I don't think anyone including Jose wants to play boring football. In the case of Jose he wants to win at any cost and to him the way he gets them to play is the best way to win.
In the case of Ole he sure wants to play attacking attractive football but he is not capable of doing so because he is not a good coach or a manager.
In the case of Ole he sure wants to play attacking attractive football but he is not capable of doing so because he is not a good coach or a manager.
Fair enough. I wasn’t overly keen when he got the interim role but to be fair, he brought the feel good factor back and for a brief period, I was really enjoying watching us again. That night in Paris was just amazing - mental luck involved - but nevertheless, what a night.
That brief period aside, it’s been a shambles. I wasn’t happy when he got the permanent job as results at that point weren’t great and I felt the club should have waited it out until the summer, for their next appointment. But then again, at that stage I was still just delighted that Jose was gone.
I do separate Ole the player and Ole the manager, though. It’s clear some can’t do that (not you) and it’s causing them to post overly emotional nonsense which is built solely on sentiment. For me, when he inevitably gets the sack, I’ll just forget this whole managerial mess and keep my fond memories of Ole the player.
@GlastonSpur
Hypothetic scenario. If Levy lose his nerve and Poch becomes available do you think he would do better then Ole with the same squad?
Yes.
I never thought fans can change that much about a club they support but looking at Real Madrid and Manchester United, it does seem fans have a say.
1) Real Madrid fans have sky high standards that even sees Ronaldo being booed for not performing. Their club is the most successful club in the world and the club's standards are an extension of their fans. Zidane is the most successful CL manager in the world at the moment and a club legend. Despite this if he has Ole's record at the end of this season the white hankies will be out faster than top red's panties drop when Ole speaks about the United way.
2) United fans happy to give a legend 2-3 years despite providing no evidence he has got what it takes to take United to the top. Fans even willing to suffer bottom half finish to give said legend a chance due to the romance of it. Club itself is happy to compete for top 4 and only fires people when the club has been damaged for the foreseeable future. Whole club from top to bottom is a love sick puppy with a butt covered with Cupid arrows.
1) Real Madrid fans have sky high standards that even sees Ronaldo being booed for not performing. Their club is the most successful club in the world and the club's standards are an extension of their fans. Zidane is the most successful CL manager in the world at the moment and a club legend. Despite this if he has Ole's record at the end of this season the white hankies will be out faster than top red's panties drop when Ole speaks about the United way.
2) United fans happy to give a legend 2-3 years despite providing no evidence he has got what it takes to take United to the top. Fans even willing to suffer bottom half finish to give said legend a chance due to the romance of it. Club itself is happy to compete for top 4 and only fires people when the club has been damaged for the foreseeable future. Whole club from top to bottom is a love sick puppy with a butt covered with Cupid arrows.
Other clubs don't change their style all the time. Taking the United job is a much more difficult challenge right now than taking any other job at a big club. When Klopp took over at Liverpool the foundations were there, same with Guardiola for City. United are a completely broken team and it will take time to change that. Sack Solskjaer now, appoint someone else and soon you'll be calling for the next manager's head again.
I don’t think it’s anything to do with him not being good enough as a coach I think we are severely affected by injuries due to a lack of squad depth.
Take the best two players out of any other team bar Man City and you see the difference no Salah and Mane and Liverpool lose their game plan no Kane and Son and Spurs lose most of their attacking ruthlessness etc.
We’ve gone a significant period of the season without Pogba and Martial who, like it or not, are our main source of attacking inspiration. Without those our back ups have not been of sufficient quality to bridge the gap.
You could argue that the increased workload is going to result in these injuries but pre-season was designed to prepare for this and so sometimes it is just bad luck.
The squad is currently 3/4 players short of being at a better level we are lacking a top wide player, top creative player in our first XI and then we need a back up striker and creative player too.
The football isn’t great but it hasn’t been great under any manager. What has been great is the recruitment and the development of promising talent. Maguire, Wan Bissaka and James have all so far done very well and we are another 3/4 signings like that away from being able to play a better style. In the mean time I’m happy to give Ole another two windows. Jan to try bring in a striker or creative player and the summer to fill in the other gaps.
In another two windows we could have
De Gea/Romero/Henderson
AWB/Dalot/Laird
Maguire/Tuanzebe
Lindelof/Jones
Shaw/Young/Williams
McTominay/CDM/Garner
Creative CM/Gomes
*Pogba/Pereira
RW/Lingard
Martial/ST/Greenwood
Rashford/James
*If we do sell Pogba I’d expect us to invest heavily in CM and depth
Take the best two players out of any other team bar Man City and you see the difference no Salah and Mane and Liverpool lose their game plan no Kane and Son and Spurs lose most of their attacking ruthlessness etc.
We’ve gone a significant period of the season without Pogba and Martial who, like it or not, are our main source of attacking inspiration. Without those our back ups have not been of sufficient quality to bridge the gap.
You could argue that the increased workload is going to result in these injuries but pre-season was designed to prepare for this and so sometimes it is just bad luck.
The squad is currently 3/4 players short of being at a better level we are lacking a top wide player, top creative player in our first XI and then we need a back up striker and creative player too.
The football isn’t great but it hasn’t been great under any manager. What has been great is the recruitment and the development of promising talent. Maguire, Wan Bissaka and James have all so far done very well and we are another 3/4 signings like that away from being able to play a better style. In the mean time I’m happy to give Ole another two windows. Jan to try bring in a striker or creative player and the summer to fill in the other gaps.
In another two windows we could have
De Gea/Romero/Henderson
AWB/Dalot/Laird
Maguire/Tuanzebe
Lindelof/Jones
Shaw/Young/Williams
McTominay/CDM/Garner
Creative CM/Gomes
*Pogba/Pereira
RW/Lingard
Martial/ST/Greenwood
Rashford/James
*If we do sell Pogba I’d expect us to invest heavily in CM and depth
This is rewriting history. Whose fault is that our squad is this thin? Didn't the manager say that he only wanted a certain one or two players and they didn't come?
You can pick from any team in the PL and you can find players who are better than what we have now.
Then coaching plays an important role too.
Ole has no clue and we can see that on the field every match now.
I am amazed at all these sorry excuses for Ole.
The point is that he is mainly to blame for what is happening at United right now. Not Woodward or The Glazers.
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Yes, without any doubt. He'd be ruthless and get rid of both those not good enough and those not committed enough. He'd also instil a more defined playing style and be better at improving players.
He'd immediately be a more respected authority figure amongst the players and team spirit would soar.
I’m not rewriting it. Ole made decisions to remove players who were disruptive or demanding above their worth. That is a big part of management.
He wanted another one or two this window. That’s the key part. He wasn’t saying two players and were sorted but two more players and the first part of the build is done.
We are a victim of years of conflicting ideologies and no manager in world football could solve our problems right this very second it has to be given time like Klopp at Liverpool heck even like Pep at City! Think about how many signings these two managers made to get where they are how much faith was put in them!
How is Ole at fault for all this mess? He has nowhere near his own team of players signed by him, he has had disruptive characters that had to go.
Our problems started when we lost Ferguson and David Gill at the same time
and didn’t make efforts to freshen an ageing squad with younger quality.
No manager is going to get 11 players he wants. It's rewriting history when it's said Ole is not responsible for what is happening.
Selling those players is not the issue but by not replacing them he is responsible for thinning the squad. As for disruptive players there was nothing Lukaku or Fellaini did to disrupt anything. In fact Ole is the one who told them that they are not in his plans and dropped them.
He was tilting at windmills thinking all the top class players are going to come to United to be coached by him, a nobody in the coaching world.
Accept the fact he is way out of his depth here.
No manager? So Guardiola doesn’t have that? Klopp doesn’t? Behave! What they won’t get is 11 players in one window but over 3/4 windows with 3/4 incomings a season you can make those changes.
Ole has signed 3 players.
Is Ole solely responsible for us not having creative players? No. We could have bought them and tried to before he arrived but only Pogba has stuck.
Is he responsible for Mourinho, LVG and Moyes era signings?
Was he able to fix the squad in a window? Could any manager?
He isn’t perfect, he’s not the second coming and for what’s it’s worth I don’t think he’ll be the manager we win a Title with but I am confident he’ll help us get a good squad together given time.
Agreed think he won't be around long enough to enjoy the benefits he's trying to put in place but think he knows that already. Think hes doing the selfless thing for the love of his club's long term benefit.
Our fans are batshit insane.
I constantly see people saying of course we won't score we don't have the players to create and score goals. I agree.
But those people neglect the fact that by Oles own admission he chose to not strengthen both midfield and attack.
So therefore our inability to create is entirely on him.
I constantly see people saying of course we won't score we don't have the players to create and score goals. I agree.
But those people neglect the fact that by Oles own admission he chose to not strengthen both midfield and attack.
So therefore our inability to create is entirely on him.
Would you rather sign a shit slightly better player or wait for a proper United quality title winning side type player?
If you just want to be a top 4 club long term make top 4 signings and decisions.
Long term we want success and that takes planning and time. Look at Pep and Klopp. Did they walk in and win right away able to implement their philosophy perfectly? No! Pep was criticised in his first season at City with people saying you can’t win the PL with his brand of football and he already had a great squad just not HIS squad.
It’s not batshit insane to view this season in the context of what has happened before. I fear people are viewing this season in isolation too much.
It is also insane to think there weren't quality players available.
That is drinking the cool aid.
The only arguments that appear to be used to keep Solsjaer are:
- He is positive in press conferences (you actually get brownie points for this)
- He 'understands the club' (whatever that means)
- He had a good transfer window (still up for debate, to be honest)
- Give him time and he will turn into Ferguson (because that is completely realistic...)
I saw a post earlier that listed all the negatives and positive arguments ar. Some people were saying it was an unbalanced view. Do you know why it is unbalanced? Because the negatives far outweigh the positives (of which I think there are none).
You cannot create a balanced argument where balance does not exist. The arguments in favour of Solskjaer are so weak; there is nothing solidly positive about Solskjaers presence at the club as a manager. This is abundantly clear when the main supporters of Solskjaer cannot actually bring up any good/feasible/understandable points in his favour.
We then have people saying that we should not sack Solskjaer because changing managers has not worked in the past. Seriously? So, we stick with a manager that clearly is not working because changing managers has not won us the title previously? The funny thing is that the worst of these managerial changes is the one from Mourinho to Solskjaer, but people now want to stick with the worst of the lot. We were never this bad, even under Moyes.
The other point is about a system of play. I have seen some Solskjaer supporters saying that there is a pattern of play, but I have never seen anyone say what that it is. Silence and 'scraping the barrel' points from the most ardent supporters shows that there is something critically wrong with Solskjaer. If there truly were reasonable positives to argue, those supporters would not hesitate in bringing them up.
Solskjaer's terms as permanent manager (All competitions)
25 games: 21 goals scored and 33 goals conceded
6 wins, 8 draws and 11 losses.
24% win rate; Score 0.84 goals per game; concede 1.32 goals per game. Diabolical is the only word to describe it.
- He is positive in press conferences (you actually get brownie points for this)
- He 'understands the club' (whatever that means)
- He had a good transfer window (still up for debate, to be honest)
- Give him time and he will turn into Ferguson (because that is completely realistic...)
I saw a post earlier that listed all the negatives and positive arguments ar. Some people were saying it was an unbalanced view. Do you know why it is unbalanced? Because the negatives far outweigh the positives (of which I think there are none).
You cannot create a balanced argument where balance does not exist. The arguments in favour of Solskjaer are so weak; there is nothing solidly positive about Solskjaers presence at the club as a manager. This is abundantly clear when the main supporters of Solskjaer cannot actually bring up any good/feasible/understandable points in his favour.
We then have people saying that we should not sack Solskjaer because changing managers has not worked in the past. Seriously? So, we stick with a manager that clearly is not working because changing managers has not won us the title previously? The funny thing is that the worst of these managerial changes is the one from Mourinho to Solskjaer, but people now want to stick with the worst of the lot. We were never this bad, even under Moyes.
The other point is about a system of play. I have seen some Solskjaer supporters saying that there is a pattern of play, but I have never seen anyone say what that it is. Silence and 'scraping the barrel' points from the most ardent supporters shows that there is something critically wrong with Solskjaer. If there truly were reasonable positives to argue, those supporters would not hesitate in bringing them up.
Solskjaer's terms as permanent manager (All competitions)
25 games: 21 goals scored and 33 goals conceded
6 wins, 8 draws and 11 losses.
24% win rate; Score 0.84 goals per game; concede 1.32 goals per game. Diabolical is the only word to describe it.
Surely the last thing that comes together during a long-term plan is what happens on the first-team pitch.
That's why it's called a "long-term" plan.
Thanks Glaston for taking your time!
With Spurs recents results you have experienced both good and bad so that put you in a good position to fairly evaluate his strengths and shortcomings. And btw I totally agree with you.
Good manager but poor coach. He needs to hire some technical coaches.
Simple basic stuff such as body positioning of players while receiving the ball is shocking.
Tactically i think he is good enough.
Simple basic stuff such as body positioning of players while receiving the ball is shocking.
Tactically i think he is good enough.
With the change of managers comes change of style, other clubs do it all the time. You're only talking about Liverpool having good foundations because Klopp brought them success. It will take time for us to challenge for major trophies again, yes, but it doesn't take that much time to at least implement some kind of cohesive football. We're so bad that the real question is WHY do people think former Cardiff and Molde manager is good enough for this allegedly impossible job? How can you watch us play and think this is the man to take us forward? Anything other than top 4 was seen as complete failure with previous managers. Even Mourinho's 2nd place wasn't seen as success by anyone. Why are people lowering the standards so much for Ole?
No, the last thing that comes is the results, see Liverpool. You could see from day 1 what Klopp was trying to do, you could see they played better football even when they finished below us.
And the "long term plan" is only a thing in some fans' heads. There is no indication it is actually happening.
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