Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

[shahzy]

I don't think ole is the right guy for the job but increasingly over the last year I've come to think that it won't matter too much who we get as long as Woodward and the glazers are here.

They have different targets and goals compared to us fans. Us fans want us to win. Woodward and glazers want to make us as profitable as possible. And those two don't need to happen together

 

[b82REZ]

Ok then if you say so.


Certainly not a team who like to win the ball back quickly pressing it and then counter with pace.


Clearly doesnt work every game especially at home when teams let us have the ball, which brings us into another issue but we have clearly played like that most of the season. If you cant see it then you are blind or have an agenda.

Because we don't play that way in every game. We setup to counter against the big teams. Against the rest we try some weird brand of possession based football where we start all our attacks from the back.

 

[DFreshKing]

Another piece of jigsaw in Fernandes and I think a vital one. Some patches of the game last night really started to show what Ole is doing and considering our missing players we looked excellent against one of the worlds best teams and thought we had a real chance before Matic got sent off. Imagine Fernandes receiving the ball where Lingard did - I doubt his second touch would have consistently been a tackle. No wonder Ole bollock'ed him and gave the hook.

This team is the most deliberate squad build I have seen since the SAF era. This is exactly the job Moyes should have done and we wouldn't have got in to such a mess but like all the coaches since SAF he was protecting his job before the club. (Edit probably being a bit harsh on LVG here)

It is so clear to me Ole is building for the future irrespective of it costs him his job and for that reason I hope he gets another summer transfer window and next season to be fully judged.

 

[stretford_oslo]

I don't think ole is the right guy for the job but increasingly over the last year I've come to think that it won't matter too much who we get as long as Woodward and the glazers are here.

They have different targets and goals compared to us fans. Us fans want us to win. Woodward and glazers want to make us as profitable as possible. And those two don't need to happen together

Agree with this. Ole isn’t the main problem, any manager would struggle under these circumstances.

 

[shaky]

Transfermarkt

According to transfermarket, Ole has spent £192m and received £70m , so a net spend of about £122m, and over 40% of that is Bruno, who hasn't even started his Utd career yet.

 

[Alabaster Codify7]

Still sack, I'll see how the rest of the season goes. I liked him last night actually.

 

[Irwin99]

Has the poll shifted again since last night ...I swear the sack now option was higher

 

[DFreshKing]

Has the poll shifted again since last night ...I swear the sack now option was higher

Some people are getting scared he might actually be doing a good job.

 

[Cloud7]

It is so clear to me Ole is building for the future irrespective of it costs him his job and for that reason I hope he gets another summer transfer window and next season to be fully judged.

The phrase “building for the future irrespective of the now” has to be the biggest piece of fluff that’s peddled on here. What does it mean? Bedding in players that are likely to do better? Every single manager does that.

The vast majority of players Vangle signed were young, with their best years ahead of them. Why was he not given the benefit of the doubt about ‘building for the future’, not to mention he played a lot of youth players including bringing Rashford into the fold.

Similarly Jose, Pogba, Lukaku (who was still fairly young when we signed him), Bailly, Lindelof, Dalot, more than half the players he signed could be considered to be building for the future.

What exactly is Ole doing any differently? Why is he given more credit for performing just as bad, or at times worse than them, with an equally awful style of football, and spending just as much money (comparative to the time he’s been here)

More importantly, you can’t just harp on about the future while ignoring the now. When SAF was blooding in the Rooney, Ronaldo team, we were still pretty damn good. This whole ‘building for the future’ thing is just hollow words that needs to start being called out for the garbage that it is.

 

[DFreshKing]

The phrase “building for the future irrespective of the now” has to be the biggest piece of fluff that’s peddled on here. What does it mean? Bedding in players that are likely to do better? Every single manager does that.

The vast majority of players Vangle signed were young, with their best years ahead of them. Why was he not given the benefit of the doubt about ‘building for the future’, not to mention he played a lot of youth players including bringing Rashford into the fold.

Similarly Jose, Pogba, Lukaku (who was still fairly young when we signed him), Bailly, Lindelof, Dalot, more than half the players he signed could be considered to be building for the future.

What exactly is Ole doing any differently? Why is he given more credit for performing just as bad, or at times worse than them, with an equally awful style of football, and spending just as much money (comparative to the time he’s been here)

More importantly, you can’t just harp on about the future while ignoring the now. When SAF was blooding in the Rooney, Ronaldo team, we were still pretty damn good. This whole ‘building for the future’ thing is just hollow words that needs to start being called out for the garbage that it is.

Are you ok?

 

[Cloud7]

Are you ok?

Perfectly fine, just finally had enough time to call out a commonly used trope I see on here that doesn’t have any actual meaning.

 

[Roboc7]

Bizarre people are trying to dress this is up as a tactical master class. I a game we had to win by two clear goals we only had one shot on target and even though we did win the game we knocked out, City should of scored but didn’t even have to.

Ole doesn’t deserve any
real praise or criticism for last night, his plan was limited, basic but understandable. We should have been well beaten but at least made a game of it after humiliation of first leg.

At least Ole showed some balls last night and actually highlighted the lack of goals and needing more players. Needs to do more of that and too little too late but least it was something.

 

[DFreshKing]

Perfectly fine, just finally had enough time to call out a commonly used trope I see on here that doesn’t have any actual meaning.

It has lots of meaning unless you are of the view that "Every single manager does that" which is utterly bizarre and needs to be called out for the garbage that it is. A rebuild is a complex and important job if you are thinking about the long term of the club, especially with shocking restrictions on finance and negotiating abilities of the people tasked with implementing the financial/contract end of your rebuild.

Without the need for spreadsheet appeasers who may say we are spending the right amount in the context of rebuild/replacing rather than staying at the top we are way below what was needed over the last 4/5 transfer windows. I don't think Ole has unlimited chances and he does need to finish the season strong as he is now getting more of the players he wants and having more time with the whole squad but people have been demanding his head almost from the first game of the season.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

According to transfermarket, Ole has spent £192m and received £70m , so a net spend of about £122m, and over 40% of that is Bruno, who hasn't even started his Utd career yet.

Where have I doubted that @shaky? That's exactly what I was posting.

"In 10 months Ole, once Fernandes is confirmed Ole has now spent €214m."

 

[DFreshKing]

Bizarre people are trying to dress this is up as a tactical master class. I a game we had to win by two clear goals we only had one shot on target and even though we did win the game we knocked out, City should of scored but didn’t even have to.

Ole doesn’t deserve any
real praise or criticism for last night, his plan was limited, basic but understandable. We should have been well beaten but at least made a game of it after humiliation of first leg.

At least Ole showed some balls last night and actually highlighted the lack of goals and needing more players. Needs to do more of that and too little too late but least it was something.

It wasn't a masterclass by any means but it was set perfectly for us to have a real go for the last 15 which surely anyone would have took after the first leg considering it's Pep's city at home. Very Fergie like against the best teams, see the Scholes interview where he talks about the CL semi final v Barcelona. Ole has a very good understanding of playing big teams and has pulled of number of wins in these situations. Really unlucky with the Matic red especially considering the fouls from city in the midfield. These stats could have been very different with the nerves in the stadium if we had 11 men on the pitch.

 

[Roboc7]

It wasn't a masterclass by any means but it was set perfectly for us to have a real go for the last 15 which surely anyone would have took after the first leg considering it's Pep's city at home. Very Fergie like against the best teams, see the Scholes interview where he talks about the CL semi final v Barcelona. Ole has a very good understanding of playing big teams and has pulled of number of wins in these situations. Really unlucky with the Matic red especially considering the fouls from city in the midfield. These stats could have been very different with the nerves in the stadium if we had 11 men on the pitch.

It’s not the same scenario though because we had to score goals more than them just to get to penalties. That’s my point let’s not try and dress it up, we set up to hope they missed chances and if they didn’t we probably would have continued playing that way so we weren’t humiliated. It’s understandable given the players and manager we have but it’s not clever and Fergie comparisons are just silly.

Recently we’ve been beaten by Arsenal, City and Liverpool and be interesting to see how we get in for rest of season. A
One nil defeat was still enough for City so despite it being a win I don’t think we should read too much into it.

 

[shaky]

Where have I doubted that @shaky? That's exactly what I was posting.

"In 10 months Ole, once Fernandes is confirmed Ole has now spent €214m."

I was just showing how you can make figures look bad or not bad, depending on how you present them. €214 million in just 10 months seems to more on the "trying to make them look really bad" side of the scale, so I presented the exact same figures in a less dramatic way, for the sake of balance.

 

[DFreshKing]

It’s not the same scenario though because we had to score goals more than them just to get to penalties. That’s my point let’s not try and dress it up, we set up to hope they missed chances and if they didn’t we probably would have continued playing that way so we weren’t humiliated. It’s understandable given the players and manager we have but it’s not clever and Fergie comparisons are just silly.

Recently we’ve been beaten by Arsenal, City and Liverpool and be interesting to see how we get in for rest of season. A
One nil defeat was still enough for City so despite it being a win I don’t think we should read too much into it.

We set up to limit their chances - not hope they missed them. They are going to create chances as one of the best teams in the world at home. I struggle to understand peoples expectations in a game of football sometimes. Did you really expect them to have no opportunities all night?

We was in a great position before the sending off you have to agree with that in the context of the whole tie.

 

[Roboc7]

We set up to limit their chances - not hope they missed them. They are going to create chances as one of the best teams in the world at home. I struggle to understand peoples expectations in a game of football sometimes. Did you really expect them to have no opportunities all night?

We was in a great position before the sending off you have to agree with that in the context of the whole tie.

Well we didn’t limit their chances so that was a fail then, I know City will make chances and Ole did as well. We have them the initiative and hoped they would t capitalise, it’s passive but understandable.

A great position would have been level or ahead. Let’s be honest over the two games the aggregate score flattered us, the fact it was that close was down to City’s wastefulness not any kind of Fergie tactics.

 

[DFreshKing]

Well we didn’t limit their chances so that was a fail then, I know City will make chances and Ole did as well. We have them the initiative and hoped they would t capitalise, it’s passive but understandable.

A great position would have been level or ahead. Let’s be honest over the two games the aggregate score flattered us, the fact it was that close was down to City’s wastefulness not any kind of Fergie tactics.

I can't agree. The game was setup perfectly for the pressure to mount before Matic's red card.

I would also add their big chances came from Lingard's first touches being like under hit passes which to be fair to Ole he tried to replace in the summer and has now finally done it. Imagine Fernandes in the role last night.

 

[b82REZ]

Some people are getting scared he might actually be doing a good job.

Why would anyone be scared of that? I'd love him to prove me wrong and really turn it around, but the reality is we are worse off in every conceivable way since last year.

Nothing suggests he's doing a good job by any measurable metric, infact the opposite is true. Despite claims he's implementing a progressive style, it's simply not true. We are arguably the most defensive I've seen us since Fergie. The majority of our possession is in our own half as we idly make lateral passes. This comes down to coaching. The attackers are not being coached to make even the most basic movement in front of the midfield and the midfielders are not encouraged to play adventurous passes or take risks. I hope this changes with Fernandes but I also fear he too will be stifled.

The injured players haven't offered any improvements in this regard as performances were just as flat and uninspired with them in the squad.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

I was just showing how you can make figures look bad or not bad, depending on how you present them. €214 million in just 10 months seems to more on the "trying to make them look really bad" side of the scale, so I presented the exact same figures in a less dramatic way, for the sake of balance.

What teh feck are you going on about?

My whole point is that no-one can complain about Ole not being backed now, he's been backed with patience no other top club would've shown and with the impending Fernandes purchase he's also been backed massively in the market.

No-one is trying to make anything look good or bad man, Ole has in 10 months now spent £192m, Ole has in 10 months now spent €214m, even if you wanna add net it's the same outcome... that you absolutely cannot claim that Ole hasn't been backed now.

Or are you arguing that he hasn't been backed? What is your point here cause mine is clear.

Your figures are also bollocks shaky, for one:

Spoiler: Never use UK transfermarkt

But that's where the problem and source of many misconceptions and misleading information lies. Transfermarkt is a German site, and so it stores all the transfer fees in EUR. Doesn't matter which of the 3 versions you use, the fees are always in EUR. This works great for the .de and .com versions, but not for the UK version. Here's why: the UK version converts the stored EUR transfer fees to GBP using today's exchange rate.

Always use Euros.

 

[Alabaster Codify7]

It's hilarious that all it takes is for Ole to be pictured screaming at Lingard for 4-seconds on camera for some people to change their minds about the situation. We are just 'plucky defeat artists' at present, some seem happy with this.

 

[DFreshKing]

What teh feck are you going on about?

My whole point is that no-one can complain about Ole not being backed now, he's been backed with patience no other top club would've shown and with the impending Fernandes purchase he's also been backed massively in the market.

No-one is trying to make anything look good or bad man, Ole has in 10 months now spent £192m, Ole has in 10 months now spent €214m, even if you wanna add net it's the same outcome... that you absolutely cannot claim that Ole hasn't been backed now.

Or are you arguing that he hasn't been backed? What is your point here cause mine is clear.

He has not been backed. Quoting figures is meaningless. 3 players in 8 players out. Squad depleted. Fernandes deal was there for the summer but we 'couldnt get it over the line' That was not on Ole and that alone has had the biggest impact on our season ignoring the injuries to big players. We have been short in midfield for years yet we let Herrera go, Fellani go. Fail to replace Lingard who went backwards.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

He has not been backed. Quoting figures is meaningless. 3 players in 8 players out.

Allowing so many to leave and spending so big on just a few players IS the definition of being backed for fecks sake man. Showing patience to a manager who wanted to cull the squad and has a 37% PL win rate is also being backed.

4 players will be in by the weekend, and my point has been AFTER Fernandes you cannot argue he's not been backed in the market or with patience. But some people can I guess, my fecking God.

Ole got rid of a striker he didn't rate and will soon have spent 214m euro in 10 months. How much fecking money and patience will it take for you to say "he's been backed"? 500 million in 15 months?

 

[b82REZ]

We set up to limit their chances - not hope they missed them. They are going to create chances as one of the best teams in the world at home. I struggle to understand peoples expectations in a game of football sometimes. Did you really expect them to have no opportunities all night?

We was in a great position before the sending off you have to agree with that in the context of the whole tie.

The expectations are always relative to the match in question.

Last night we had to score a minimum of two goals to have any hope of progressing, but we didn't set up to ever really test City's backline. We scored a worldie and then offered no threat whatsoever.

Despite the 1-0 scoreline in our favour we were second best in most of that match and on another night we could easily have been 3/4 down in the first 20 minutes the way City were pressing us and cutting through us at will.

I think our defensive approach actually surprised a lot of the City team as we needed to be the ones setting the tempo and taking initiative. Despite all the praise Ole has received in regards to our revolutionary counter attacking play we didn't see a single meaningful counter attack. I was told last night that our style is "fast, direct counter attacking" where was the evidence of that last night, or in any game post the City/Spurs double header in December?

 

[RedRonaldo]

There's no point to sack him now, he has signed 4 players with total over 200m, give him until end of season to prove his worth here, if we finished top 4 he stays, if not he's out.

 

[romufc]

Bizarre people are trying to dress this is up as a tactical master class. I a game we had to win by two clear goals we only had one shot on target and even though we did win the game we knocked out, City should of scored but didn’t even have to.

So would you prefer we go all out attack with the players we have and get beat 4-0?

 

[Smores]

We set up to limit their chances - not hope they missed them. They are going to create chances as one of the best teams in the world at home. I struggle to understand peoples expectations in a game of football sometimes. Did you really expect them to have no opportunities all night?

We was in a great position before the sending off you have to agree with that in the context of the whole tie.

No one as far as i can see has said they didn't expect City to have a chance all night? Where are you even getting that from?

Being down 2 goals in a two legged tie i imagine people's expectation was to have more than one attempt. Shocking i know.

Your answer to that appears to be that whilst it didn't happen it might have happened in the last 15 minutes. Hardly a solid angle to argue from.

 

[DFreshKing]

No one as far as i can see has said they didn't expect City to have a chance all night? Where are you even getting that from?

Being down 2 goals in a two legged tie i imagine people's expectation was to have more than one attempt. Shocking i know.

Your answer to that appears to be that whilst it didn't happen it might have happened in the last 15 minutes. Hardly a solid angle to argue from.

If you understand sport then it is a very valid argument. The last 15 minutes of the tie was crucial and being only one goal behind was a good position to threaten them with what would have been a fantastic comeback against a very strong team. You forget the slightly important point about the red card ending the hope of it happening as a few players and pundits also said.

I didn't say anyone expected no chances - read it again. I asked a question to the person i was replying to obviously.

 

[R'hllor]

Matic got a red as a price of events right before that, watch the whole action and us trying to play what ever the feck was that in final third, its our trade mark for a while now, the lack of idea and having no clue what to do when they aproach opposition box is just laughable, people can try to fend of that with blaming 100% lack of quality but thats bullshit and we all know it.

 

[Roboc7]

So would you prefer we go all out attack with the players we have and get beat 4-0?

Wow so there’s two alternatives park the bus or all out attack. Call me crazy but assumed there are more than two ways to play.

 

[Bilbo]

Allowing so many to leave and spending so big on player IS being backed for fecks sake man. Showing patience to a manager who wanted to cull the squad and has a 37% PL win rate is also being backed.

4 players will be in by the weekend, and my point has been AFTER Fernandes you cannot argue he's not been back in the market or with patience. But some people can I guess, my fecking God.

I don't think its ever been a case of him not being backed. Its more a case that the decisions that were made were designed to show benefits over a longer term than most seem to be willing to handle.

We've seen a lot of players let go and the squad has been trimmed. Good decision but one that held a higher risk of negatively affecting this season. We will see the benefits later. Likewise with incomings. Hold on for the right players at the right prices. We lost Haaland because of this stance but ended up getting a pretty good value deal for Fernandes. We will see the benefits later.

Its a little bit of a stretch for anyone to go from a position of 'the club are letting him down' to suddenly 'well, the guy has been backed' due to one player coming in. Fernandes is an important piece of the puzzle but we will still see problems. We are not there yet. More players are still needed. We still have key injuries, but the Fernandes deal gives me further confidence for next season. He will be settled and we will make more signings in the summer. Players will be back. I think we'll have an exciting squad for next season.

 

[meamth]

A thread/poll made for the moaners/out brigade.

I genuinely think, there are many supporters who won't sack Ole like what the poll represents.

 

[b82REZ]

If you understand sport then it is a very valid argument. The last 15 minutes of the tie was crucial and being only one goal behind was a good position to threaten them with what would have been a fantastic comeback against a very strong team. You forget the slightly important point about the red card ending the hope of it happening as a few players and pundits also said.

I didn't say anyone expected no chances - read it again. I asked a question to the person i was replying to obviously.

No manager should go into a tie like this hoping to still be in by the last 15 minutes and hope we might nick an equaliser. We should have been far more proactive in the first half and stopped with the incessant attempts to score the perfect team goal with needlessly passing not only on the edge of their box, but also on the edge of ours.

 

[romufc]

Wow so there’s two alternatives park the bus or all out attack. Call me crazy but assumed there are more than two ways to play.

Which is the option?

Given the players we have what way would you have played? or liked to see us play?

 

[b82REZ]

A thread/poll made for the moaners/out brigade.

I genuinely think, there are many supporters who won't sack Ole like what the poll represents.

Are people who want to keep Ole not allowed to vote on this poll then? My eyes must have been playing tricks on me because I'm sure 26% had voted to keep him. My mistake, let's close this agenda driven thread and open a new one, aye?

 

[DFreshKing]

The expectations are always relative to the match in question.

Last night we had to score a minimum of two goals to have any hope of progressing, but we didn't set up to ever really test City's backline. We scored a worldie and then offered no threat whatsoever.

Despite the 1-0 scoreline in our favour we were second best in most of that match and on another night we could easily have been 3/4 down in the first 20 minutes the way City were pressing us and cutting through us at will.

I think our defensive approach actually surprised a lot of the City team as we needed to be the ones setting the tempo and taking initiative. Despite all the praise Ole has received in regards to our revolutionary counter attacking play we didn't see a single meaningful counter attack. I was told last night that our style is "fast, direct counter attacking" where was the evidence of that last night, or in any game post the City/Spurs double header in December?

Despite the scoreline? not really how it works. We could not go all guns blazing that would have been suicide. The point I'm trying to make was they would have created much more chances had we played in the way some posters are suggesting like adding a winger for example.

We know our team is behind them at the moment and this approach gave us a chance to be in the tie with 15 minutes to go, most objective fans wold have snatched the hands of you if offered that before the match. The same moaners here predicting we were going to be spanked by a number of goals so clearly the were wrong on that, regardless of anything else we won the game!

We lost the tie but was right in it after a horror first leg before the sending off and I cannot understand how people cannot comprehend that and at least give a little credit.

 

[sglowrider]

I don't think its ever been a case of him not being backed. Its more a case that the decisions that were made were designed to show benefits over a longer term than most seem to be willing to handle.

We've seen a lot of players let go and the squad has been trimmed. Good decision but one that held a higher risk of negatively affecting this season. We will see the benefits later. Likewise with incomings. Hold on for the right players at the right prices. We lost Haaland because of this stance but ended up getting a pretty good value deal for Fernandes. We will see the benefits later.

Its a little bit of a stretch for anyone to go from a position of 'the club are letting him down' to suddenly 'well, the guy has been backed' due to one player coming in. Fernandes is an important piece of the puzzle but we will still see problems. We are not there yet. More players are still needed. We still have key injuries, but the Fernandes deal gives me further confidence for next season. He will be settled and we will make more signings in the summer. Players will be back. I think we'll have an exciting squad for next season.

I dont think getting the right players this summer will be easy considering we have the Euros. The prices will be sky-high and you know Matt Judge and team arent well organised to be able to buy before the Euros.

 

[Roboc7]

Which is the option?

Given the players we have what way would you have played? or liked to see us play?

I didn’t think there were any others though?. It was either do what we did last night or attack and get beat 4-0. Literally there was nothing else that could be done.