Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

Sack or Keep OLE?

  • Sack Ole & appoint new coach ASAP

  • Keep Ole & back him to finish rebuild


Results are only viewable after voting.
Status
Not open for further replies.

b82REZ

Full Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2011
Messages
9,350
Location
Manchester
I’d say Ole maybe is a small part of the reason why we are so far away considering what’s gone on in the last 6 years.
Whether you, or other Ole sympathisers want to accept it, our previous 6 seasons have been more successful than what we are currently witnessing. There is nothing to suggest that he will halt the slide, if anything the evidence suggests not as we are struggling against teams like Rochdale and AZ.

I love Ole, the player, the manager is way out of his depth and has managed to keep fans onside by acting like they would in the position.

The rot has well and truly set in and Ole will not be the one to rectify it based on all available evidence, as much as you or I may wish he could.
 

b82REZ

Full Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2011
Messages
9,350
Location
Manchester
I wouldn't sack him yet simply because he deserves a full season for everything he did for us as a player.
However, he's unproven, isn't very animated on the touchline, picks wrong players for games, waits too long to change things, and doesn't play Pogba high enough up the field.
My fear is that he won't be a success with us, or any big club. Big Shame. So please Ole prove me wrong!
It's this sort of romanticism that will kill this club. Our transition to 90s Liverpool will be well and truly complete. Has beens holding onto any remnant of past glory to rub in the face of the current successful teams.
 

gerdm07

Thinks we should have kept Pereira
Joined
Aug 8, 2011
Messages
2,774
He is 3 for 3 in his signings and, IMO, that merits at least a full year in charge. We should wait till March till any decision is made and especially see what happens in the January transfer market. Now, if we fall to 15th or below in the standings by December then he'll have to go.
 

Leftback99

Might have a bedwetting fetish.
Joined
Jan 11, 2015
Messages
14,486
Put it this way,

Would Real Madrid accept this? Nope
Barcelona? Nope
Bayern Munich? Nope
City? No
Juventus? Hell no

Wish we would act like the big club we like to portray.
Would those clubs accept what?

None of those clubs are under any risk of finishing outside of the top 4 with the squads they have. So yes they would sack their manager if they failed.

With our squad it was expected that we'd finish around 6th pre season.
 

Godfather

Full Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2007
Messages
29,966
Location
Austria
It's this sort of romanticism that will kill this club. Our transition to 90s Liverpool will be well and truly complete. Has beens holding onto any remnant of past glory to rub in the face of the current successful teams.
This. It's absolutely ridiculous that we step for step make the same mistakes as Liverpool did.
 

Amir

Full Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2000
Messages
24,937
Location
Rehovot, Israel
The most compelling argument I can come up with for not sacking him is that I don’t want us to rush into another reactive appointment. So, unless we are in danger of relegation, I’d keep Ole in place for now while we try to identify the right man. Maybe 5th time lucky for Woodward.
We should sack him now and appoint a caretaker. Solskjaer would be available then!

But yeah, there's no point in letting him go for the sake of it. Just throwing out Mourinho's poison had a positive effect on the team in December. Letting Solskjaer go wouldn't change much right now. Someone, though, I doubt the club would be clever enough to use the time in order to look for a replacement.
 

fergiesarmy1

New Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2013
Messages
3,595
Whether you, or other Ole sympathisers want to accept it, our previous 6 seasons have been more successful than what we are currently witnessing. There is nothing to suggest that he will halt the slide, if anything the evidence suggests not as we are struggling against teams like Rochdale and AZ.

I love Ole, the player, the manager is way out of his depth and has managed to keep fans onside by acting like they would in the position.

The rot has well and truly set in and Ole will not be the one to rectify it based on all available evidence, as much as you or I may wish he could.
Time will tell I guess but I’d rather not have another manager and end up with the same shitshow which is the likely outcome.
 

Eric7C

New Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2015
Messages
993
Would those clubs accept what?

None of those clubs are under any risk of finishing outside of the top 4 with the squads they have. So yes they would sack their manager if they failed.

With our squad it was expected that we'd finish around 6th pre season.
Ole is partly responsible for having this squad. He didn't beg Herrera to stay as he should have. He should have kept Lukaku as an option for this season (no way he was going to not perform in a Euros year).

With those two players and the defensive additions this summer, this is absolutely a top 4 squad if Ole knew the first thing about coaching.
 

fergiesarmy1

New Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2013
Messages
3,595
You can't fear change, lets be honest it can't get much worse right now.
If there was someone I actually would want to be manager it would maybe me think it’s time but there isn’t. We aren’t a great proposition right now either and working for the Glazers and Woodward is seemingly the end of anyone’s career as a manager.
 

MrEarl

New Member
Newbie
Joined
May 19, 2019
Messages
65
At the risk of being torn to shreds I confess I do not want to see Ole fired. I was not in favor of him being hired either. My candidate was Eddie Howe for obvious reasons. But Ole got the job. The primary difficulties he faces are caused by the giant hole in central midfield. I don't see Ole as responsible for the team's problems.
Ole was at the helm enjoying spectacular success when Herrera was injured. Without him, United's bottom fell out. There was no cover for his position. There still wasn't but now we don't even have Herrera. United doesn't have anyone capable of doing a reliable job as an attacking central midfielder or number 10. But we don't have another central midfielder to play in front of McTominay. So we end up with Pogba playing in a position in which he is not productive and without an effective attacking central midfielder. The problem is exacerbated by the fact that the two fullbacks do not bring a lot of offense. The end result is no service for the attackers.

There is a lot of criticism of the attackers. But as everyone says while everyone nods in agreement, strikers are only as good as the service they get. I look at the rest of the team and they are young and full of promise with only a few questions like how good is Shaw really and can Rashford transition to play on the right. With a fully functioning central midfield this is a top 4 team. United's primary competitors for third and fourth place are having plenty of their own problems.
Blaming Ole for not signing central midfielder's is at best just guesswork. JM, as he frequently reminded us, has an incredibly long and impressive CV. He said his job title at United should be changed from manager to coach because he had no control over transfers. If he couldn't stamp his authority over transfers, how in the world is a relative neophyte like Ole going to do it?

The team is currently threadbare. As they are demonstrating today, they cannot persevere through excessive injuries. That's where long-term rebuilding is needed if central midfielder solved. Sacking Ole does not solve the problems the team is facing. He seems to be doing a pretty good job but he can't field an effective team without a competent central midfield. Nobody can.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

UnitedSofa

You'll Never Walk Away
Joined
Jul 12, 2013
Messages
6,796
Ole is partly responsible for having this squad. He didn't beg Herrera to stay as he should have. He should have kept Lukaku as an option for this season (no way he was going to not perform in a Euros year).

With those two players and the defensive additions this summer, this is absolutely a top 4 squad if Ole knew the first thing about coaching.
Beg?! Beg?! BEG?!

No self respecting manager in ANY league should BEG a player to stay, that just sends out a message he was bigger than the club.

Fact of the matter is he was an aging player asking for a lot more money than he was worth. - & yet all of you’s are fed up of mercenaries and Ed paying players whatever they want. Herrera was an effect of the Sanchez wages. Ed/Ole was right to get rid. Sure Ole wanted him to stay but not on the wages Herrera wanted.

Lukaku was allegedly stinking up the place and had a bad attitude, again good to get rid of him.

Ole simply cannot win. Want to play youth he plays youth. Gets rid of deadwood and he starts the clear out and that isn’t good enough.

Time and time again ive said it, entitled fans wanting everything at once and aren’t prepared to wait.

Shock.
 

JustAGuest

Full Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2013
Messages
742
Those in favour of an immediate sacking, where do we go from here? Do we go straight for his replacement, or appoint an interim manager to see out the season? I wonder this because I don't see any satisfying option that is currently available.
 

USREDEVIL

Full Member
Joined
Aug 2, 2018
Messages
4,899
Location
California U.S.A.
I see the grass is greener creeping up on supporters now. Fond memories of the "clinical" Lukaku, how Alexis would "improve" our squad and how "tenacious" and "effective" Herrera was...:lol:
 

Eric7C

New Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2015
Messages
993
Beg?! Beg?! BEG?!

No self respecting manager in ANY league should BEG a player to stay, that just sends out a message he was bigger than the club.

Fact of the matter is he was an aging player asking for a lot more money than he was worth. - & yet all of you’s are fed up of mercenaries and Ed paying players whatever they want. Herrera was an effect of the Sanchez wages. Ed/Ole was right to get rid. Sure Ole wanted him to stay but not on the wages Herrera wanted.

Lukaku was allegedly stinking up the place and had a bad attitude, again good to get rid of him.

Ole simply cannot win. Want to play youth he plays youth. Gets rid of deadwood and he starts the clear out and that isn’t good enough.

Time and time again ive said it, entitled fans wanting everything at once and aren’t prepared to wait.

Shock.
Calm down.

I don't mean beg literally - ask, cajole, coerce, inflate their ego, inflate their worth to the club etc. Take your pick. Like Fergie used to do. Like any manager who wants to win does. You keep the good players you want if you want to win.
 

Random Task

WW Lynchpin
Joined
Feb 7, 2010
Messages
34,503
Location
Chester
Those in favour of an immediate sacking, where do we go from here? Do we go straight for his replacement, or appoint an interim manager to see out the season? I wonder this because I don't see any satisfying option that is currently available.
Same.

Ed has made his bed. He's chosen to support Ole's plan of removing the deadwood and replacing them with academy products.

Sacking him now is out of the question if he values his integrity.
 

Roboc7

Full Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2014
Messages
6,678
Same.

Ed has made his bed. He's chosen to support Ole's plan of removing the deadwood and replacing them with academy products.

Sacking him now is out of the question if he values his integrity.
I am sure the plan didn’t include being this bad, since Ole took over permanently we’re a bottom six team in terms of points per game. That wouldn’t have been part of any equation.

Ole got the job on basis he had us performing like a top 4 team, whether people agree or not he’ll lose it if we continue to perform like relegation candidates.
 

Random Task

WW Lynchpin
Joined
Feb 7, 2010
Messages
34,503
Location
Chester
I am sure the plan didn’t include being this bad, since Ole took over permanently we’re a bottom six team in terms of points per game. That wouldn’t have been part of any equation.

Ole got the job on basis he had us performing like a top 4 team, whether people agree or not he’ll lose it if we continue to perform like relegation candidates.
As the clubs self-appointed DoF, Ed would have been kept very much in the loop regards his plans for both incoming and outgoing transfers and that of the new season ahead. I imagine they would have discussed these plans at great length. The latter was clearly on board with the idea as he made no significant effort to make reinforcements to the midfield and attack.

If we sack Ole this season, Ed must follow him directly our of the door.
 

Amerifan

Full Member
Joined
Aug 8, 2019
Messages
986
Same.

Ed has made his bed. He's chosen to support Ole's plan of removing the deadwood and replacing them with academy products.

Sacking him now is out of the question if he values his integrity.
I’m sure he does. Even if he doesn’t, he’s still tied to the decisions. Financials haven’t been great, investments haven’t planned out, and City and Liverpool’s fan bases have grown at the expense of ours. Behind the scenes I’m sure Ed is under tremendous pressure to turn things around this season. He needs Ole and the squad to succeed. If it doesn’t, likely the next thing we’ll hear about Ed will be in the form of a public statement. Issued an hour before he is aware of it. That he’s been replaced after a year long executive search conducted behind his back. Sacking Ole a month into the season isn’t an option.
 

Roboc7

Full Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2014
Messages
6,678
As the clubs self-appointed DoF, Ed would have been kept very much in the loop regards his plans for both incoming and outgoing transfers and that of the new season ahead. I imagine they would have discussed these plans at great length. The latter was clearly on board with the idea as he made no significant effort to make reinforcements to the midfield and attack.

If we sack Ole this season, Ed must follow him directly our of the door.
I agree Woodward should have gone years ago but he’s here to stay whether we like it or not.

Two wrongs don’t make a right, if best Ole can do in the short term is this he’s done. I think we can say with absolute certainty no one would have signed up to Ole’s plan if this was the result. He’d have promised top 6 at worst and that looks unlikely at the moment.

Where do you draw the line for how bad it can get this season, bottom half? relegation battle?. This argument it’s long term so suck it up only works to a certain extent, it doesn’t excuse anything and everything.
 

Omahahaha

New Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2014
Messages
196
Put it this way,

Would Real Madrid accept this? Nope
Barcelona? Nope
Bayern Munich? Nope
City? No
Juventus? Hell no

Wish we would act like the big club we like to portray.
This. Benitez was sacked from Real in January, with a 68% win record.
 

Red Stone

Full Member
Joined
Jan 30, 2011
Messages
8,769
Location
NZ
I'm not referring to their history, as they were clearly successful. I'm referring to their stints with United. Inept was probably strong word to describe all of them, but I had Moyes in my head as I was typing that. LVG and Mourinho were clearly past it though. At least with LVG of the three, we could see what they were trying to do and some semblance of a footballing strategy. We don't even have that now.

The best was technically SAF, and he didn't fail. Just to counter your assertion there.
SAF didn't work with Woodward, who I'm convinced is the main problem. The Glazers won't be an issue if the long-term footballing decisions are made by someone with even a modicum of sense. Just look at our spending to see that we aren't being held back because we don't have money. We definitely have money available, but our idiot CEO is throwing it away at every turn and shifting the blame onto the manager, which has left us with an astronomical net spend and the worst squad we've had in 40 to 50 years.

Firstly, Woodward has hired wildly different managers with wildly differing footballing philosophies. This has left us with a completely mis-matched squad of players suited to completely different styles of football. Moyes to van Gaal to Mourinho to Solskjær is such a scattergun approach to managerial appointments that it's hard to comprehend what the idea is behind it, other than just hiring based on name and reputation (or in Ole's case, feelgood factor) and not at all considering which manager is best suited to get the most out of the squad we have. This has also lead us to spend enormous amounts of money on a host of new players just to get the squad even remotely close to fitting the new manager's vision. Both LvG and Mourinho went mental with spending during their first transfer window. Most of those players have been sold at a loss because they didn't have a place in the next manager's team, weren't good enough or didn't want to be here in the first place.

Secondly, two things are obvious about Woodward: One, he fancies himself some kind of Billy Big Bollocks football scout and will make or veto signings against the manager's wishes, and two, he's clearly absolutely fecking inept at player recruitment, as evidenced by the following:

  • We've spent months chasing big players every summer without moves ever materializing, which has meant that we've ended up panic buying the scraps other teams don't want at an inflated cost at the end of the window. Examples are Thiago, Fabregas, Perisic, Kroos, Sergio Ramos, Alderweireld, Bale, Griezmann, Willian and probably a whole host of others that I've forgotten or suppressed. Some of those sagas went on for the entire summer, and ended up with absolutely nothing in the end. We also messed up at the end of this summer's window by not finding someone to fill the massive hole left by Lukaku.
  • We signed Fellaini at a higher cost than necessary because we waited too long to pull the trigger.
  • We signed Maguire for a record fee this summer after Mourinho was denied the same player (and others) at a lower cost last summer.
  • Woodward signed Fred for a mind-numbing sum of money despite the player clearly not being wanted by Mourinho and never featuring in his plans, which is understandable now considering he'll obviously never be close to the level required of a United player.
  • I'm fairly confident the signings of Di Maria and Sanchez were done because Woodward wanted to do a bit of dick-swinging in the transfer market and not because the managers actually needed or wanted the players, based on how they were utilized after they were signed.
These are just some examples of the footballing side of things being badly run, and they're 100% on Woodward. If we're chasing a player at the start of a window it's because someone at the club has identified the need for that player. Woodward's job is to secure the deal as quickly as possible or move on if it can't be done. That's how well-run clubs do it. If we dry-hump for two months and end up without options that has nothing to do with the manager and everything to do with the guy responsible for closing the deal. If a manager comes in and the squad we have is woefully incompatible with that manager's style it isn't the manager's fault for succeeding a different type of manager. If that manager doesn't get the players he wants and needs to play according to his philosophies and ideas it isn't the manager's fault.

I agree that Ole seems incredibly out of his depth here, but no manager is ever going to succeed here because our club is run in a way that actively prevents even the very best managers from performing. Mourinho said finishing runner-up in the league with us was his greatest achievement. I know he has a tendency to exaggerate, but there's definitely truth to those words, and it's becoming increasingly obvious what he meant by that. At this level of football it's impossible to be the best without everyone pulling in the same direction, and Woodward doesn't have a clue which direction he's supposed to pull.
 

Enigma_87

You know who
Joined
Aug 7, 2008
Messages
27,654
Those in favour of an immediate sacking, where do we go from here? Do we go straight for his replacement, or appoint an interim manager to see out the season? I wonder this because I don't see any satisfying option that is currently available.
You can employ the tea lady till the end of the season. I doubt our results can be worse.

He will probably be gone at some point as his results will plummet even more.
 

Pink Moon

Full Member
Joined
Aug 20, 2009
Messages
8,283
Location
Glasgow
Supports
Celtic
Those in favour of an immediate sacking, where do we go from here? Do we go straight for his replacement, or appoint an interim manager to see out the season? I wonder this because I don't see any satisfying option that is currently available.
Get the new guy in now and give him the rest of the season to see which of the dross he would keep. No point bringing a new guy in the summer and he has insufficient time to get a feel for who is in his plans and who isn't.
 

Karlos PFC

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jan 2, 2018
Messages
375
The best thing right now is to sack Ole before any more damage is done. We are playing like a relegation side, short on confidence, not scoring and half of the squad in treatment room. I don't believe for one minute that our squad is this shit, the main problem lies with the manager. Clearly clueless and worryingly out of his depth, his main issue since making his hire permanent was all about fitness this, fitness that.

Guess what, in every matchday the only thing we see from the available players is running like headless chickens.
We don't know how to close down the opponent, we can't stitch three passes and football is so boring and so small team mentality.
Yeah let's wait for them to attack us, they'll never know what hit them:(.

The biggest trick Ed has ever pulled is hiring Ole. The fans won't turn against him, they'll continue blaming the players.

Sure we're not a top 3 or even top 4 team quality wise, but by Christmas time we'll be struggling between 9th and 15th place with Ole at the wheel.

Most people in here claim that we have become 90's Liverpool. The truth is far more depressing than that.
We have become Everton:(
 

Kemizee

New Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2018
Messages
649
Location
Lagos, Nigeria
Put it this way,

Would Real Madrid accept this? Nope
Barcelona? Nope
Bayern Munich? Nope
City? No
Juventus? Hell no

Wish we would act like the big club we like to portray.
But we have the United way and we always stand by our manager despite the stark truth that we currently have one who isn't up to scratch in the seat. What those teams have that we don't currently is not money or leverage but we lack standards(accountability) , a football loving board and a demanding fanbase. When those three are absent particularly standards that should match a top club's ambitions, then what will follow next is a freefall and that is where we currently find ourselves. The day we set high standards of what should be acceptable in this club and what shouldn't from the coaching angle and players persepctives, we will return to the top fold.
 

Greck

Full Member
Joined
Dec 1, 2016
Messages
7,099
Never ever heard of managers being evaluated only by transfer window intervals. It just sounds like snake oil merchants trying to buy time for a failing product. And let's be honest that's exactly what it is
 

Møllemanden

Full Member
Joined
May 19, 2017
Messages
382
Location
Denmark
Ole might not be the best manager around. BUT! Look at our previous managers... Moyes inherited a worn down team from Fergie and wasn't backed in the transfer market. Lvg got some kind of backing, but still had an awful lot of rubbish players + he used some young players as well. Jose got some big name transfers, but too many of them turned out to be poor investments. He also used a bit of young players, but none of them have the standard that we require. Now Ole has had one proper transfer window. He has been backed, and so far I have no complaints at all. His signings along with McTominay have been our best performers this season. Also, he got rid of Smalling, Sanchez and Lukaku who in my opinion aren't United players. So even though results have been bad, you still have to consider how long it takes to rebuild a squad. None of the previous managers have been able to create magic with the current team. And the reason is that the players just aren't good enough. Take a look at all the bad decisions being made, the bad passes etc. There is nothing Ole can do about that. We need to have patience.
 

RooneyLegend

New Member
Joined
May 3, 2013
Messages
12,963
Would those clubs accept what?

None of those clubs are under any risk of finishing outside of the top 4 with the squads they have. So yes they would sack their manager if they failed.

With our squad it was expected that we'd finish around 6th pre season.
One of the issues is Ole loves these guys and thinks they are the second coming of the class of 92 and that's not the case at all. Not at this point anyways.
 

Møllemanden

Full Member
Joined
May 19, 2017
Messages
382
Location
Denmark
One of the issues is Ole loves these guys and thinks they are the second coming of the class of 92 and that's not the case at all. Not at this point anyways.
Well... Ole is not stupid. If you watch or read some of the interviews with Ole, he says that he always wants to appear positive. He cannot say directly if he thinks Gomes, Greenwood or Chong aren't good enough. He sees what we see. Have a little faith man.
 

Forevergiggs1

Full Member
Joined
Sep 22, 2019
Messages
3,451
Location
Barcelona
Supports
United
This thread is very similar one to José thread! Each bad or average result the poll result changes. It seems that 4 managers on - we are still thinking the issue is really the manager? One or two or three but 4 in a row!
It wouldn't be impossible. Moyes was never United material, LVG and Mou just haven't realised that football tactics have changed a lot in the last 10 years and haven't adapted and Ole is just trying to be a SAF mk11 with no original ideas of his own. Once we get a progressive manager who understands modern tactics then and only then we will begin to see a difference in the way we play football.

This is why Wenger for me is a bad choice. He didn't move with the times and look how Arsenal are now. Poch, Blanc, Howe, Nagelsmann, would improve us enormously with their modern style of play. If you don't move with the times you get left behind.
 

USREDEVIL

Full Member
Joined
Aug 2, 2018
Messages
4,899
Location
California U.S.A.
Well... Ole is not stupid. If you watch or read some of the interviews with Ole, he says that he always wants to appear positive. He cannot say directly if he thinks Gomes, Greenwood or Chong aren't good enough. He sees what we see. Have a little faith man.
He's treating them with a bit of kindness as they're young. Can't crush their confidence as that's important for youth. It's the right thing to do in the press at least. Behind close doors i imagine he or someone else might give them some constructive criticism.
 

RooneyLegend

New Member
Joined
May 3, 2013
Messages
12,963
Well... Ole is not stupid. If you watch or read some of the interviews with Ole, he says that he always wants to appear positive. He cannot say directly if he thinks Gomes, Greenwood or Chong aren't good enough. He sees what we see. Have a little faith man.
Forget the young ones, he believes in the likes of Lingard and Rashford. Believes the likes of Mata still add something here. Thinks Matic and Young could lead the young ones. Talked about how they have championship experience.
 

USREDEVIL

Full Member
Joined
Aug 2, 2018
Messages
4,899
Location
California U.S.A.
Forget the young ones, he believes in the likes of Lingard and Rashford. Believes the likes of Mata still add something here. Thinks Matic and Young could lead the young ones. Talked about how they have championship experience.
Soon they might have experience in the championship...
 

Trophy Room

Full Member
Joined
Sep 16, 2014
Messages
3,880
Location
Manchester
We're playing with a lack of confidence and quality in attack. This hasn't improved during Ole's time here, it has worsened. This is the fault of him and his coaching team. The best coaches make players better. Sadly this will only get worse. Injuries and squad quality hasn't helped but this is an excuse we have being giving for years. There are other teams with worse squads than ours who play much better and more consistent football. I don't blame him, just blame the board for appointing him.

One cannot expect to play a high pressure, high intensity game with a depleted squad, a lack of cohesion in attack and inability to keep possession. The players will just break-down with fatigue-related injuries. Running alone is unfortunately boring and without the aforementioned components to complement running, the energy will inevitably die over the course of the game. Ever wonder why we press early in the game and then just seem to give up?

Strap in lads, I keep hearing that it'll be five years more. We last realistically competed for the premier league (and won) almost 8 years ago. Another 20 doesn't seem that long anymore. We are in a bloody vicious cycle of entirely our own creation.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.