Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

Sack or Keep OLE?

  • Sack Ole & appoint new coach ASAP

  • Keep Ole & back him to finish rebuild


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Pughnichi

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Well that’s false.

He’s cleared out deadwood and also created more deadwood. Rashford; Lingard; Shaw; Lindelof; Pierera all looking extra shite.

His signings have been here a month. If Dan James doesn’t kick on with his development he’ll be deadwood too. I don’t want to be seeing this player 12 months done the line. Harry Maguire is good on the ball but I wouldn’t know because he don’t keep it well.

I rather he didn’t give youth a chance.. the more they play the more I fear for their overall career.

We’re in the cycle and to be quite frank.. we take too long in doing that too.
Created more deadwood!! Rashford and Lingard have been below par for some 12/18 months now. Shaws been injured and Lindelof is coming off his best season in a Utd shirt

How do you expect youth in the current situation to get better? Make them sit it out for another 18 months so we can fill the squad with better players worthy of looking up to. They ain’t gonna improve if they aren’t playing..and I’m not alone in rather seeing Gomes than Mata, Henderson than Young

If dan James. If AWB, if Harry Maguire...if if if if if if if if if
 

Mainoldo

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Created more deadwood!! Rashford and Lingard have been below par for some 12/18 months now. Shaws been injured and Lindelof is coming off his best season in a Utd shirt

How do you expect youth in the current situation to get better? Make them sit it out for another 18 months so we can fill the squad with better players worthy of looking up to. They ain’t gonna improve if they aren’t playing..and I’m not alone in rather seeing Gomes than Mata, Henderson than Young

If dan James. If AWB, if Harry Maguire...if if if if if if if if if
Rashford has been crap since he got injured at Liverpool so let’s not make things up. As for Lingard he’s been completely fine until.. yes Liverpool when Ole rushed him back. But I’m not going to blame him too much for that.

I expect youth to be nutured correctly. Greenwood is what 17. He’s basically 3rd choice striker which means he’s always on the bench and actually getting less minutes than if he continued his progression in the youth team. It’s not like he’s starting league games. So yes maybe people should look at this actual developing youth.

If we had more ‘ifs’ we probably wouldn’t be where we are right now with a crap manager. But ‘if’ you believe these players will continue to play well in a crap team. All the best to you.
 

George The Best

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SAF didn't work with Woodward, who I'm convinced is the main problem. The Glazers won't be an issue if the long-term footballing decisions are made by someone with even a modicum of sense. Just look at our spending to see that we aren't being held back because we don't have money. We definitely have money available, but our idiot CEO is throwing it away at every turn and shifting the blame onto the manager, which has left us with an astronomical net spend and the worst squad we've had in 40 to 50 years.

Firstly, Woodward has hired wildly different managers with wildly differing footballing philosophies. This has left us with a completely mis-matched squad of players suited to completely different styles of football. Moyes to van Gaal to Mourinho to Solskjær is such a scattergun approach to managerial appointments that it's hard to comprehend what the idea is behind it, other than just hiring based on name and reputation (or in Ole's case, feelgood factor) and not at all considering which manager is best suited to get the most out of the squad we have. This has also lead us to spend enormous amounts of money on a host of new players just to get the squad even remotely close to fitting the new manager's vision. Both LvG and Mourinho went mental with spending during their first transfer window. Most of those players have been sold at a loss because they didn't have a place in the next manager's team, weren't good enough or didn't want to be here in the first place.

Secondly, two things are obvious about Woodward: One, he fancies himself some kind of Billy Big Bollocks football scout and will make or veto signings against the manager's wishes, and two, he's clearly absolutely fecking inept at player recruitment, as evidenced by the following:

  • We've spent months chasing big players every summer without moves ever materializing, which has meant that we've ended up panic buying the scraps other teams don't want at an inflated cost at the end of the window. Examples are Thiago, Fabregas, Perisic, Kroos, Sergio Ramos, Alderweireld, Bale, Griezmann, Willian and probably a whole host of others that I've forgotten or suppressed. Some of those sagas went on for the entire summer, and ended up with absolutely nothing in the end. We also messed up at the end of this summer's window by not finding someone to fill the massive hole left by Lukaku.
  • We signed Fellaini at a higher cost than necessary because we waited too long to pull the trigger.
  • We signed Maguire for a record fee this summer after Mourinho was denied the same player (and others) at a lower cost last summer.
  • Woodward signed Fred for a mind-numbing sum of money despite the player clearly not being wanted by Mourinho and never featuring in his plans, which is understandable now considering he'll obviously never be close to the level required of a United player.
  • I'm fairly confident the signings of Di Maria and Sanchez were done because Woodward wanted to do a bit of dick-swinging in the transfer market and not because the managers actually needed or wanted the players, based on how they were utilized after they were signed.
These are just some examples of the footballing side of things being badly run, and they're 100% on Woodward. If we're chasing a player at the start of a window it's because someone at the club has identified the need for that player. Woodward's job is to secure the deal as quickly as possible or move on if it can't be done. That's how well-run clubs do it. If we dry-hump for two months and end up without options that has nothing to do with the manager and everything to do with the guy responsible for closing the deal. If a manager comes in and the squad we have is woefully incompatible with that manager's style it isn't the manager's fault for succeeding a different type of manager. If that manager doesn't get the players he wants and needs to play according to his philosophies and ideas it isn't the manager's fault.

I agree that Ole seems incredibly out of his depth here, but no manager is ever going to succeed here because our club is run in a way that actively prevents even the very best managers from performing. Mourinho said finishing runner-up in the league with us was his greatest achievement. I know he has a tendency to exaggerate, but there's definitely truth to those words, and it's becoming increasingly obvious what he meant by that. At this level of football it's impossible to be the best without everyone pulling in the same direction, and Woodward doesn't have a clue which direction he's supposed to pull.
Good post. Nail on the head.
 

norm87cro

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Like I said in the Allegri thread. He is a poor mans Jose and deep down most of the CAF knows this. This is Ole's thread and it should contain his performances as the United manager not his hypothetical replacements.
 

elnorte

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Well... Ole is not stupid. If you watch or read some of the interviews with Ole, he says that he always wants to appear positive. He cannot say directly if he thinks Gomes, Greenwood or Chong aren't good enough. He sees what we see. Have a little faith man.
Haha. You can't be serious? He ain't just stupid, he is monumentally thick.
 

Pughnichi

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Rashford has been crap since he got injured at Liverpool so let’s not make things up. As for Lingard he’s been completely fine until.. yes Liverpool when Ole rushed him back. But I’m not going to blame him too much for that.

I expect youth to be nutured correctly. Greenwood is what 17. He’s basically 3rd choice striker which means he’s always on the bench and actually getting less minutes than if he continued his progression in the youth team. It’s not like he’s starting league games. So yes maybe people should look at this actual developing youth.

If we had more ‘ifs’ we probably wouldn’t be where we are right now with a crap manager. But ‘if’ you believe these players will continue to play well in a crap team. All the best to you.
What I do believe is that the squad below is decent. And when OGS’s next 3 signings are as good as his last 3 then we won’t be too far off being a much better team.

Granted it means an additional 7 players...but we’d no longer have to put up with Bailly, Jones, Young, Rojo, Matic, Lingard, Fred & Pereira who quite frankly have no business being at this club.

7 signings (5 starters) 2 windows. That’s doable...right Ed?

GK: DeGea, Romero
RB: AWB, Dalot
CB: Maguire, Lindelof, Tuanzebe + 1
LW: +1, Shaw
CM: +2, McTominay, Garner
CAM: Pogba, Gomes
RW: +2
LW: James, Rashford
SC: +1, Martial, Greenwood
 

C'est Moi Cantona

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What is infuriating is that if we'd just stuck to the plan and kept him as the interim boss then it's quite likely the end of the season would have worked out differently, Ole would have been a hero (again), and would have been the go to man if we needed a stop gap in the future, plus the next guy would have really had something to build on this season.

We just clearly never had a plan at all post Jose.
 

Amerifan

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SAF didn't work with Woodward, who I'm convinced is the main problem. The Glazers won't be an issue if the long-term footballing decisions are made by someone with even a modicum of sense. Just look at our spending to see that we aren't being held back because we don't have money. We definitely have money available, but our idiot CEO is throwing it away at every turn and shifting the blame onto the manager, which has left us with an astronomical net spend and the worst squad we've had in 40 to 50 years.

Firstly, Woodward has hired wildly different managers with wildly differing footballing philosophies. This has left us with a completely mis-matched squad of players suited to completely different styles of football. Moyes to van Gaal to Mourinho to Solskjær is such a scattergun approach to managerial appointments that it's hard to comprehend what the idea is behind it, other than just hiring based on name and reputation (or in Ole's case, feelgood factor) and not at all considering which manager is best suited to get the most out of the squad we have. This has also lead us to spend enormous amounts of money on a host of new players just to get the squad even remotely close to fitting the new manager's vision. Both LvG and Mourinho went mental with spending during their first transfer window. Most of those players have been sold at a loss because they didn't have a place in the next manager's team, weren't good enough or didn't want to be here in the first place.

Secondly, two things are obvious about Woodward: One, he fancies himself some kind of Billy Big Bollocks football scout and will make or veto signings against the manager's wishes, and two, he's clearly absolutely fecking inept at player recruitment, as evidenced by the following:

  • We've spent months chasing big players every summer without moves ever materializing, which has meant that we've ended up panic buying the scraps other teams don't want at an inflated cost at the end of the window. Examples are Thiago, Fabregas, Perisic, Kroos, Sergio Ramos, Alderweireld, Bale, Griezmann, Willian and probably a whole host of others that I've forgotten or suppressed. Some of those sagas went on for the entire summer, and ended up with absolutely nothing in the end. We also messed up at the end of this summer's window by not finding someone to fill the massive hole left by Lukaku.
  • We signed Fellaini at a higher cost than necessary because we waited too long to pull the trigger.
  • We signed Maguire for a record fee this summer after Mourinho was denied the same player (and others) at a lower cost last summer.
  • Woodward signed Fred for a mind-numbing sum of money despite the player clearly not being wanted by Mourinho and never featuring in his plans, which is understandable now considering he'll obviously never be close to the level required of a United player.
  • I'm fairly confident the signings of Di Maria and Sanchez were done because Woodward wanted to do a bit of dick-swinging in the transfer market and not because the managers actually needed or wanted the players, based on how they were utilized after they were signed.
These are just some examples of the footballing side of things being badly run, and they're 100% on Woodward. If we're chasing a player at the start of a window it's because someone at the club has identified the need for that player. Woodward's job is to secure the deal as quickly as possible or move on if it can't be done. That's how well-run clubs do it. If we dry-hump for two months and end up without options that has nothing to do with the manager and everything to do with the guy responsible for closing the deal. If a manager comes in and the squad we have is woefully incompatible with that manager's style it isn't the manager's fault for succeeding a different type of manager. If that manager doesn't get the players he wants and needs to play according to his philosophies and ideas it isn't the manager's fault.

I agree that Ole seems incredibly out of his depth here, but no manager is ever going to succeed here because our club is run in a way that actively prevents even the very best managers from performing. Mourinho said finishing runner-up in the league with us was his greatest achievement. I know he has a tendency to exaggerate, but there's definitely truth to those words, and it's becoming increasingly obvious what he meant by that. At this level of football it's impossible to be the best without everyone pulling in the same direction, and Woodward doesn't have a clue which direction he's supposed to pull.
Well said.

I agree Woodward is responsible for these problems, but for a different reason. Ed gets all the blame because his is the only name most of us know. But as CEO of a billion pound corporation there’s no way he’s involved in the day-to-day scouting and approaches and negotiating and talent assessment and signing and manager evaluation and so on. He has entire departments devoted to those functions. I don’t know what the signature levels are at United, but probably the only time Ed’s sign off is needed is when an expensive player is bought or sold. The rest of the time he’s focused on other matters.

The problem is Ed is responsible for the heads of the departments, and they clearly aren’t effective. If he left tomorrow and wasn’t replaced nothing would change on the pitch. A new CEO would need to come in and rebuild the company first. Good luck finding that guy. It’s a longer and harder job than rebuilding our squad.
 

KristianMackle

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Um. That sure is a piece of revisionist history. Ole kept talking about wanting and "expecting to" bring in an additional attacker even before Lukaku left, so I would be very interested in hearing your source for Ole "stubbornly refusing" to buy a striker. Because frankly it sounds like you're making shit up to fit a narrative.
He said in press conference if he has brought in a striker, it would've stunted Greenwood's growth. You dont remember that?
 

Møllemanden

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he believes in the likes of Lingard and Rashford. Believes the likes of Mata still add something here.
He has to believe in Lingard and Rashford for now. There are no other options. Mata might not add anything on the pitch, but his presence and experience is valuable to the young players. If Ole could swap 11 first team players during a transfer window, i'm sure he would. That's just not realistic.

Haha. You can't be serious? He ain't just stupid, he is monumentally thick.
Of course I am serious. Don't tell me that Ole is thinking that Rashs goal return is anywhere near good enough. And I am pretty sure he is aware of how awful Lingards stats have been in 2019.

I'd be very surprised if Ole is happy with the state of things right now.
 

Enigma_87

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It would have, wouldn't it? That doesn't mean he didn't try.
Who cares if he tried or not?

At the end of the day we entered the season with this squad and the decision was made by the coaching staff and the manager.

To me all of the conjectures that the board and the previous 5 managers are at fault end there.
 

Enigma_87

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Misdirection my friend, surprised anyone believes anything that is said in press conferences.
So we believe in the pressers that suit our agenda - that he wanted more players, but do not with those which contradict it - giving young players time and happy with the squad? :)
 

fergiesarmy1

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So we believe in the pressers that suit our agenda - that he wanted more players, but do not with those which contradict it - giving young players time and happy with the squad? :)
Not seen a press conference where he has said that he wanted more players, I just try to read behind the lines and also the absurdity that a rookie manager would actively want to give himself less of a chance of success especially when the season ended so badly but maybe I’m wrong ;)
 

Enigma_87

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How do you know this?
You are telling me the CEO makes the decision if the young players are good enough and whether the squad is ready for the season?

This is the job of the manager and coaching staff. If they don’t bear that responsibility I don’t know what they are doing in that position then.
 

Enigma_87

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Not seen a press conference where he has said that he wanted more players, I just try to read behind the lines and also the absurdity that a rookie manager would actively want to give himself less of a chance of success especially when the season ended so badly but maybe I’m wrong ;)
You keep looking for excuses my friend. :)

Maybe going into the season being so naive is part of being a rookie manager ;)
 

Møllemanden

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You are telling me the CEO makes the decision if the young players are good enough and whether the squad is ready for the season?
Of course they don't. But it might not have been Oles decision. In fact, if Ole thought the squad was good enough as it is now, then you are absolutely right. He should be fired immediately. I just don't believe that is the case. United didn't hire a retard, man. I cannot believe how people insinuate that Ole was happy with this squad, when the transfer window closed. It's just nonsense!
 

Richard Sutton

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There’s one with fingers in three YouTube channels who thinks his opinion matters more than anyone else’s.

as for the manager, I don’t see a replacement who’s available unless Poch would come, but OGS is clearly out of his depth and needs to go at the earliest convenience.
 

fergiesarmy1

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You keep looking for excuses my friend. :)

Maybe going into the season being so naive is part of being a rookie manager ;)
Maybe he did, I doubt it though. Especially as he had some understanding of the benefit of a strong squad given how much time he spent waiting to do his stuff with options for every position.
 

Enigma_87

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Of course they don't. But it might not have been Oles decision. In fact, if Ole thought the squad was good enough as it is now, then you are absolutely right. He should be fired immediately. I just don't believe that is the case. United didn't hire a retard, man. I cannot believe how people insinuate that Ole was happy with this squad, when the transfer window closed. It's just nonsense!
So out of all players in the world we couldn’t loan a midfielder or a striker?

We couldn’t sign one defender, one midfielder, one striker and one winger with 160m pounds?

Putting 130m on two defenders and leaving the rest of the team like this is bad planning.

United hired a terrible manager whose last “big” job was relegating Cardiff and looking as clueless as he is now.

As I’ve said you get what you deserve. No serious and experienced manager will go into a season like that - literally no one.
 

Enigma_87

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Maybe he did, I doubt it though. Especially as he had some understanding of the benefit of a strong squad given how much time he spent waiting to do his stuff with options for every position.

I don’t the Glazers will pocket 30-40-50m not buying a short term solution for the striker position when you can lose top 4 and possibly finishing mid table.

It’s not the board’s decision to make Martial a striker with Rashford a backup option - either of them struggle to get 10-15 goals every season and the former has proven to be very injury prone.

This doesn’t sound to me like financial decision.
 

fergiesarmy1

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I don’t the Glazers will pocket 30-40-50m not buying a short term solution for the striker position when you can lose top 4 and possibly finishing mid table.

It’s not the board’s decision to make Martial a striker with Rashford a backup option - either of them struggle to get 10-15 goals every season and the former has proven to be very injury prone.

This doesn’t sound to me like financial decision.
I think the glazers and woodward were desperate for that Lukaku money so not so sure, seemed their idea of a replacement was over the hill signings like mandzukic or llorente to me.
 

Enigma_87

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I think the glazers and woodward were desperate for that Lukaku money so not so sure, seemed their idea of a replacement was over the hill signings like mandzukic or llorente to me.
They were desperate because if Lukaku don’t want to be here and is not in the first plans of the manager he would only lose value.

TBH getting that amount for him is job well done if you ask me.

We don’t know the exact reason why Lukaku decided he wants Italy - maybe Ole planned to bin him all along or give him a part time role. If the case was this then he forced the board’s hand.
 

Møllemanden

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As I’ve said you get what you deserve. No serious and experienced manager will go into a season like that - literally no one.
I agree 100%.

Ask Moyes, LVG and Jose if they went into a season feeling like they had THE team to win the PL. Give Ole some credit ffs. He's not an r-tard.
 

Catt

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I don't think we can read too much into interviews as managers under pressure says all kinds of weird stuff. And not being a good enough isn't the same as being stupid or thick.
 

fergiesarmy1

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They were desperate because if Lukaku don’t want to be here and is not in the first plans of the manager he would only lose value.

TBH getting that amount for him is job well done if you ask me.

We don’t know the exact reason why Lukaku decided he wants Italy - maybe Ole planned to bin him all along or give him a part time role. If the case was this then he forced the board’s hand.
Either way on Lukaku the idea of a replacement seemed to be around the £10m in transfer fee or possibly a free signing.

All I know is that they are only interested in increasing revenue and as our sponsorship is about to start dropping the only way now is selling the highest value players so pogba is next, not that I’ll miss him obviously ;)
 

Mockney

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As much as he's unquestionably failing, it's impossible to say "Yes" with any real conviction if there isn't a viable replacement....

We quite obviously should've kept Ole as our interim, and continued to court Poch or Zizoue for the Summer, as was clearly initially intended.... But because we're fecking idiots, we didn't. So now it's pretty hard to sack Ole without accepting that whoever we replace him with will themselves only be a temporary gig (unless they win a few games, whereupon we'll probably just build them a fecking statue or something)
 

Enigma_87

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I agree 100%.

Ask Moyes, LVG and Jose if they went into a season feeling like they had THE team to win the PL. Give Ole some credit ffs. He's not an r-tard.
Unfortunately the downsides of Ole’s reign fat outweighs the positives. Shite manager, shite tactics, barebones of a squad and another lost season. It’s not about winning PL or even top 4. Give him enough time and he will make us a solid bottom half performer.

When it’s all set and done probably he will have a very strong case for our worst appointment in history.
 

Martialfc

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I’m behind Ole 100% but if he goes and gives Lingard a new contract I’d want him out.
 

KingCantona87

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SAF didn't work with Woodward, who I'm convinced is the main problem. The Glazers won't be an issue if the long-term footballing decisions are made by someone with even a modicum of sense. Just look at our spending to see that we aren't being held back because we don't have money. We definitely have money available, but our idiot CEO is throwing it away at every turn and shifting the blame onto the manager, which has left us with an astronomical net spend and the worst squad we've had in 40 to 50 years.

Firstly, Woodward has hired wildly different managers with wildly differing footballing philosophies. This has left us with a completely mis-matched squad of players suited to completely different styles of football. Moyes to van Gaal to Mourinho to Solskjær is such a scattergun approach to managerial appointments that it's hard to comprehend what the idea is behind it, other than just hiring based on name and reputation (or in Ole's case, feelgood factor) and not at all considering which manager is best suited to get the most out of the squad we have. This has also lead us to spend enormous amounts of money on a host of new players just to get the squad even remotely close to fitting the new manager's vision. Both LvG and Mourinho went mental with spending during their first transfer window. Most of those players have been sold at a loss because they didn't have a place in the next manager's team, weren't good enough or didn't want to be here in the first place.

Secondly, two things are obvious about Woodward: One, he fancies himself some kind of Billy Big Bollocks football scout and will make or veto signings against the manager's wishes, and two, he's clearly absolutely fecking inept at player recruitment, as evidenced by the following:

  • We've spent months chasing big players every summer without moves ever materializing, which has meant that we've ended up panic buying the scraps other teams don't want at an inflated cost at the end of the window. Examples are Thiago, Fabregas, Perisic, Kroos, Sergio Ramos, Alderweireld, Bale, Griezmann, Willian and probably a whole host of others that I've forgotten or suppressed. Some of those sagas went on for the entire summer, and ended up with absolutely nothing in the end. We also messed up at the end of this summer's window by not finding someone to fill the massive hole left by Lukaku.
  • We signed Fellaini at a higher cost than necessary because we waited too long to pull the trigger.
  • We signed Maguire for a record fee this summer after Mourinho was denied the same player (and others) at a lower cost last summer.
  • Woodward signed Fred for a mind-numbing sum of money despite the player clearly not being wanted by Mourinho and never featuring in his plans, which is understandable now considering he'll obviously never be close to the level required of a United player.
  • I'm fairly confident the signings of Di Maria and Sanchez were done because Woodward wanted to do a bit of dick-swinging in the transfer market and not because the managers actually needed or wanted the players, based on how they were utilized after they were signed.
These are just some examples of the footballing side of things being badly run, and they're 100% on Woodward. If we're chasing a player at the start of a window it's because someone at the club has identified the need for that player. Woodward's job is to secure the deal as quickly as possible or move on if it can't be done. That's how well-run clubs do it. If we dry-hump for two months and end up without options that has nothing to do with the manager and everything to do with the guy responsible for closing the deal. If a manager comes in and the squad we have is woefully incompatible with that manager's style it isn't the manager's fault for succeeding a different type of manager. If that manager doesn't get the players he wants and needs to play according to his philosophies and ideas it isn't the manager's fault.

I agree that Ole seems incredibly out of his depth here, but no manager is ever going to succeed here because our club is run in a way that actively prevents even the very best managers from performing. Mourinho said finishing runner-up in the league with us was his greatest achievement. I know he has a tendency to exaggerate, but there's definitely truth to those words, and it's becoming increasingly obvious what he meant by that. At this level of football it's impossible to be the best without everyone pulling in the same direction, and Woodward doesn't have a clue which direction he's supposed to pull.
Finally some sense in this utter car-crash of a thread.
 

amolbhatia50k

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I'm not Ole out or Ole in really as let's be honest for the most part it will make feck all difference.


But if we are also honest with ourselves if our current manager wasn't an ex player he would have been sacked or be very close to it by now.

Again though all the major problems go back to Woodward and the board. There was 0 reason to give Ole the permanent position when we did. Should have waited longer into his run and evaluated.

They must likely saw a cheap option and not an adoption they where sure would work.

I'd Ole magically survives till Jan he needs to look at bringing in 2 maybe even 3 players. While unprecedented in the Jan window it will very likely be the only way he or any manager can salvage the season and start to build.

No sense waiting till another summer.


Drop points to Newcastle and lose to pool and it will all go really sour really quick.
Seriously now, why won't it make a difference. This is aimed at a lot of the forum rather than you.

We'd most likely not find anybody as good as Klopp but which of these did he need the "best owners/CEO in the world " to do for him?
  • Signing a well known player in Mane.
  • Signing Robertson who was again well known across England
  • Signing Firmino who was established in Germany as a quality footballer
  • Signing Chamberlain and Lallana
  • Signing VVD from the same league
  • Coaching the players he does have excellently, developing them and building a collective that plays as per his ideas/vision.
Sure we should replace Ed Woodward with somebody who doesn't make three poor managerial appointments. But we have to face the other inconvenient facts too - that the manager DOES matter and great management would improve us greatly.
 

amolbhatia50k

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Why?

Nobody asked him to win the league in style, his job is top 6.

If he can't even get that he's not the man we could trust for a 3 years rebuild.
Top 4. Top 6 was never his objective. That would be silly.
 
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