Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

[Dante]

I think Ole's philosophy is the right one (as opposed to Moyes' small club mentality, LvG's stubborn adherance to ideas that aren't working and Mourinho's antagonism of his own squad).

But Solskjaer's implementation of his philosophy has been terrible.

I wouldn't be opposed to replacing Ole. But I don't want to lose his ideas about United's identity altogether. Maybe that means either he or Phelan move upstairs as advisors to a new DOF. I don't know.

I just know he's poor at the coaching and in-game aspects of management. It's not good enough.

 

[TsuWave]

It would be unreasonable to sack him prior to 10 league games in even if we know which way it's going. If you put a club legend in charge you can't sack prior to it being absolutely necessary.

It’s absolutely necessary.

 

[ayushreddevil9]

If past results are anything to go by we seem to be doing pretty well vs the better teams with Ole.

Give it a rest.

 

[MoskvaRed]

As I said in the match day thread:

If Solskjaer or the coaching staff are coaching Maguire to head the ball up in the air in his own box, Shaw to drift inside with his man and not pick up wingers, Maguire to not block quick free kicks, Pogba to go to ground in his own box, Martial to punch people and Bailly to pass the ball directly to an opposition player on the edge of his own box then absolutely sack the lot of them because that is disgraceful behaviour.

That’s fairly desperate reasoning which gets brought out for every failing manager. It wasn’t Moyes, van Gaal or Mourinho instructing players to mis-hit passes, fail to track or miss sitters but, as in every football club in the world, the buck stops with the manager.

 

[Giggsyking]

the first time since 1930 we concede 10 goals in the first 3 matches.

 

[NJM78]

Tottenham were 2 points behind us when Mourinho took over, and finished the season 7 points behind us. Great work from Mourinho.

Jose won all three of his semi finals and won two trophies with us. He also got us second and our highest points tally since SAF. He had Fellaini and not Fernandes bailing him out week in week out!

The club is a mess and Ole is part of it.

 

[Pennywise]

Yeah I'm deluded... You just said the manager should be sacked because he lost one game 6-1.

Deluded and you can't read apparently. Not once did I say that. I literally said the opposite you complete simpleton. I said it goes beyond the 3 games

 

[Salus Populi Suprema Lex]

Utd Next 5 games.
Newcastle
PSG
Chelsea
Leipzig
Arsenal

Will he be sacked if we dont win any of them.

Newcastle is the only one I'm reasonably confident about, but that's no cakewalk.

 

[Random Task]

That’s fairly desperate reasoning which gets brought out for every failing manager. It wasn’t Moyes, van Gaal or Mourinho instructing players to mis-hit passes, fail to track or miss sitters but, as in every football club in the world, the buck stops with the manager.

There is only one guarantee, the 11 players who started the game today, and those on the bench, are so much better than they have been showing since the season began.

The problems extend far beyond the playing staff, a fact that was made wholly evident during Jose and LVG's tenures.

Woody has to go if/when Ole does.

 

[Godfather]

He’s going to survive this isn’t he? feck sake

It's a joke. Delivered so many sackworthy results already... That's what you get when you make a player legend your manager. Any other guy would be thrown out the door immediately.

 

[ravi2]

We'd be lucky to make 6th this year at this rate, at least then Woodward would spend in the transfer market

 

[Random Task]

If past results are anything to go by we seem to be doing pretty well vs the better teams with Ole.

We just lost 6-1 to one of those "better teams" so that argument no longer stands, I'm afraid.

 

[Andycoleno9]

It’s absolutely necessary.

I don't know what to say anymore. This is amazing how people still defend him.

 

[Abhinav]

Wasn't that what Ole was supposed to be doing so well at? The culture, mentality and recruitment are all just as shite as under Mourinho. Ole has achieved nothing in any of those areas.

Yeh the board are a bunch of cretins but we can't do anything about that until the Glazers decide to sell.


I don't think you'll find a single person who wants Ole out who doesn't also want Woodward, Judge and the Glazers out on their arses as well.

Then we will have the same story played out again and again without going anywhere.
We have owners and a CEO who have no clue about football. All they can think about is the short term profit. With this structure, I see no one other than maybe Klopp who can come in and take us where we want to be. No manager that is good enough is going to come in and invest his time in this project knowing that the board will sabotage their plan at the first sign of promise.
Our start to this season is eerily similar to the one that Jose had in 2018. One thing is common between the two- Our executives decided not to strengthen from last year’s promising position. That immediately deflates the mood around the club. Last 4 weeks have been nothing but negative about Man United when the club should have been uplifted with our strong finish to the campaign.

 

[Robbie Boy]

The club is a mess and Ole is part of it.

This is the key piece here. The stauch in-brigade won't admit it though.

 

[OrcaFat]

Isn't that the purpose of man-management?

If he doesn't coach and can't stop the complacency then what's exactly his job?

That’s a stretch. Player errors happen from time to time and blaming the coach is not logical.

The coach or manager is the one who signs up to take responsibility for the results. When you lose 1-6 the coach has to expect a hammering but picking out individual errors and expecting a coach to eliminate them? Nah.

 

[crossy1686]

That’s fairly desperate reasoning which gets brought out for every failing manager. It wasn’t Moyes, van Gaal or Mourinho instructing players to mis-hit passes, fail to track or miss sitters but, as in every football club in the world, the buck stops with the manager.

So all the managers are at fault and the players just aren't coached properly?

 

[Untied]

Jose won all three of his semi finals and won two trophies with us. He also got us second and our highest points tally since SAF. He had Fellaini and not Fernandes bailing him out week in week out!

The club is a mess and Ole is part of it.

Here's my take on Ole: he's a symptom of the mess at the club because he should never have been appointed permanently when he was. And if he'd had the same run of results we might have gone for Pochettino (or Nagelsman, etc) that summer instead.

But once he's been appointed there's nothing to suggest that he is the main problem with our performances. Mourinho still came a distant second. That's not where we need or want to be.

Replacing Ole is just repeating the same cycle, and will just leave us with a more disjointed squad as another manager gets half-way through their rebuilid

 

[My only Eric]

Crystal Palace and Brighton could have scored 6 against us, if they weren't so poor at finishing. There's no excuse for getting outplayed by these two teams, back to back in the league. Tottenham have better finishers, so this result was sadly inevitable.

Ole is at fault for this because he plays to our weakness. The two DM's in Pogba and Matic should never be played together in that position.
Our opponents, have realized that in order to beat us, they simply have to move Pogba out of position, run past Matic and simply walk past Maguire. This is made worse by the fact that Ole has told the fullbacks to play more centrally than wide. This leaves opposition players free out wide.

This tactics will always work against us. So again, why is Ole setting us up to play to our weakness?

Sun Tzu said "know yourself, know the enemy, and you need not fear the outcome of a hundred battles".

Our Opponents always seem to know more about our squad's strength and weakness more than our own manager. This is the source of their confidence against us.

Ole, If you don't get the sack, try a new formation because your 4231 has been found out. Preferably a formation that plays to our strength not our weakness.

 

[jasT1981]

Today was a disgrace, and to see him smiling coming off the pitch was a real head scratcher. Even in his interview he didn't seem the way most would be after being hammered 6-1 at home.

HOWEVER

What is sacking him going to do?

We've been down this road. Time and again. We get top 4 and get Champions league only to see the summer window be taken lightly. We struggle to start the season and manager ends up getting fired.

We've fired 3 managers in 7 years and nothing has changed. We can't keep doing it. There is something seriously wrong at the core of the club. Right from top to bottom there is a cancerous tumour eating away at the club. The players don't care. The board doesn't seem to care. Woodward doesn't seem to care and the Glazers don't seem to care as long as we get that precious top 4 spot.

A change of manager won't do a thing because 18 months from now we will be having this exact discussion again about firing him.

Something is fundamentally wrong at the club. It has been for years but no one at the club seems to care.

 

[JustAGuest]

Give it a rest.

I won't be surprised if we manage some good result from those fixtures. Doesn't say much on whether he should be managing the team long term though.

 

[Red Shorts]

That's what Woodward will include in his report to the Glaziers regarding today's loss. Then the Glaziers will say, "Oh we lost 6-1? That's just one touchdown scored by the opponents, that's not so bad! By the way how are the Drink and Snack sponsorship deals from Asia coming along?"

. Maybe they will transfer Tom Brady over for 300k a week?

 

[crossy1686]

Deluded and you can't read apparently. Not once did I say that. I literally said the opposite you complete simpleton. I said it goes beyond the 3 games

This gets better! So when we finished 3rd and got to 3 semi-finals you had an issue? Why not give us your expert opinion on why this is the manager's fault and how all United's issues begin and end with the manager.

 

[Smores]

That’s a stretch. Player errors happen from time to time and blaming the coach is not logical.

The coach or manager is the one who signs up to take responsibility for the results. When you lose 1-6 the coach has to expect a hammering but picking out individual errors and expecting a coach to eliminate them? Nah.

Good coaching reduces errors. Look at how many errors we suddenly had under Moyes and its because the coaching became a joke and players have said as much.

You need good organisation to provide the stability as it gives players confidence and they make less errors.

 

[JPRouve]

So all the managers are at fault and the players just aren't coached properly?

Well it's not the same players, two of the managers have done nothing in their careers after United and the current manager has never managed at a good level. So of course you can blame the players but you are blaming completely different groups of players.

 

[Smores]

This gets better! So when we finished 3rd and got to 3 semi-finals you had an issue? Why not give us your expert opinion on why this is the manager's fault and how all United's issues begin and end with the manager.

You had no issues with our team last season? Really?

 

[Woziak]

Who would buy him no pace and currently not at the races £30m at best !!

 

[golden_blunder]

As I said in the match day thread:

If Solskjaer or the coaching staff are coaching Maguire to head the ball up in the air in his own box, Shaw to drift inside with his man and not pick up wingers, Maguire to not block quick free kicks, Pogba to go to ground in his own box, Martial to punch people and Bailly to pass the ball directly to an opposition player on the edge of his own box then absolutely sack the lot of them because that is disgraceful behaviour.

I take your point but from this game alone:
- we continue with passing out from the back which has almost undone us in every game, and in this game it did. We don’t have the players to play like this so why are we doing it?
- we knew son would be the dangerous one on the breaks, why didnt we plan accordingly?
- why wait so long to change the midfield? You could have driven a bus through it today
- show some emotion ffs. Every time the camera panned to Ole he looked defeated and out of ideas.

 

[crossy1686]

You had no issues with our team last season? Really?

Of course I did at times, and I still have those issues but I don't believe they can be fixed with a managerial change, and certainly not over night

 

[Enigma_87]

Do some research mate. It will do you a world of good.
As a side-note if I m not wrong, we also lost 3-0 to Everton on the first day of that season.

Which season? I'm fairly sure we didn't lost two straight opening games at home under Fergie.

 

[Untied]

Good coaching reduces errors. Look at how many errors we suddenly had under Moyes and its because the coaching became a joke and players have said as much.

You need good organisation to provide the stability as it gives players confidence and they make less errors.

The problem with this narrative is that it implies that Ole can't or doesn't coach a defense. Whereas actually our improvement last year was mainly built around the defense being a lot tighter (statistically 3rd best in the division). Our problem was more to do with our dreadful attack.

Now at the start of this season the defense has gone to shit, and there's still no attack. But if you want to criticise Ole's coaching, you should focus on the attack not the defense, because he's shown he can do the latter well.

 

[Smores]

Of course I did at times, and I still have those issues but I don't believe they can be fixed with a managerial change, and certainly not over night

What were those issues and how long do they need to be coached to resolve?

Or do you just think improvements can only be made through swapping one player for another?

 

[golden_blunder]

And it was City, not Tottenham. Man City who had much better squad and won the league this year.

This one is a much bigger disaster.

I completely agree, I was just replying to someone who asked “when was the last time we got beat by more than 4?”

 

[pratyush_utd]

Is Ole the best we can get now?

 

[bsCallout]

I struggle to see another manager not being able to get more from this squad but I think our players are just fed up with this club as we are. Shaws comment lament this.

 

[crossy1686]

I take your point but from this game alone:
- we continue with passing out from the back which has almost undone us in every game, and in this game it did. We don’t have the players to play like this so why are we doing it?
- we knew son would be the dangerous one on the breaks, why didnt we plan accordingly?
- why wait so long to change the midfield? You could have driven a bus through it today
- show some emotion ffs. Every time the camera panned to Ole he looked defeated and out of ideas.

I agree with you on some of these points completely but you still can't discount the level of individual errors is just too high from some people.

Ole is to blame for the selection and the players just not being up for it. Then we lost our heads, our shape, and any composure that remained.

The truth is somewhere in between. The manager is to blame as too are the players but this idea that swapping out Solskjaer for Pochettino will fix everything is just a fantasy.

 

[Ronnie O'Sullivan]

. Maybe they will transfer Tom Brady over for 300k a week?

He would do a better job than any of our defenders

 

[el3mel]

Honestly people are overrating this 3rd too much. We had a great end to last season, true, it was positive and a thing to get optimistic about, but we got 3rd with 66 points, 66 goals scored and 18 wins. Exactly similar numbers to what we got when we finished 6th the season before it, also 66 points, 65 goals scored and 19 wins.

But people just don't want to listen. "points doesn't matter". "Each season is different"..etc, etc. It's like it's hard to remove red tinted glasses some times to analyze the situation better.

The only positive thing from last season was the run after the restart when we looked impressive. Otherwise, most of the season was crap. We actually started to go down in terms of performance during the 0-3 win against Villa in which a dodgy pen made the breakthrough for us. After that it was mostly a slog, and we're carrying the same form into current season.

During LVG and Mourinho era the expectations from the fan base was much higher. Now it's good enough for Manchester United to get top 4 with 66 points and have a trophyless season.

People need to review themselves and how their expectations went downhill under Ole before they manage to regain it to the high standards we were used to again.

 

[MattofManchester]

We got beat 6-1 at home, and no, it wasn't because we were a man down.
The same kind of performance that we put in in the 2 games prior.

Time to go.

 

[Enigma_87]

Today was a disgrace, and to see him smiling coming off the pitch was a real head scratcher. Even in his interview he didn't seem the way most would be after being hammered 6-1 at home.

HOWEVER

What is sacking him going to do?

You can ask Bayern fans what sacking Kovac could have done last year.