What about since Ole took over?
Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)
- Thread starter MrSingh2002
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Again you're going on the basis of one window which still hasn't closed, look at how much the club spent the last few years, and compare with other clubs or even just the last 3 windows, you won't find more than a couple of clubs which spent more than United.
And Real Madrid are also a very toxic and poorly run club backed by the Madrid government. We don't want to be toxic. And we are not backed by any government. We're actually hampered by debt from our owners.
Oh but it does matter what manager we have. There are managers out there that can play beautiful football without needing to spend 80m on mediocre defender like Maguire and 120m in Sancho.
The only pattern I notice with Ole is his purple patches and then the socking drop in form
Yeah that poorly run and toxic club.
Only won a measly 13 Champions League titles and 34 La Liga titles. They're clearly in shambles from how they do their business.
Up to a point, yes. Which he got us to 3rd last season. And this season, we have no new arrivals except for 1. Maybe 2 more but only after a few games have been played, meaning no pre season. Speaking of pre season, did you know many teams had up to 4 or 5 pre season matches and 2 to 3 competitive matches before they played us while we only had 1 pre season game?
It sucks to be in our situation. But many factors are out of our control. Ole can just try his best to deal with it. And I will not condemn a man who is trying his best for the club. If he fails, you can rest assured the Glazers will have his head. You don't have to worry about that. For now, I give him whatever support I can give. And hope for the best. There isn't anything else that any of us can do to change things.
Ole's biggest issue (as it was with our previous managers) is that he is not able to make and implement decision that need taking from a position of strength.
He is actually in a worse position to our previous managers in that he is still considered a "rookie" manager who has yet to prove himself at the highest level.
Being able to make decision, from a position of strength, for a manager in such a historic club, requires a few pre-requisites
1/ Have the full backing of the board and full control of which players are brough in or sold
2/ Have players who are able to step in and take the place of "under performing" players
3/ Have a number of players in the squad who are "strong characters" and are in full agreement with the manager and the direction the club is going
1, 2 & 3 than give the manager the "courage" to implement the changes that need implementing without the fear of "losing the dressing room" or "upsetting" certain key player
Its so easy as fans to cry and whine, saying "why didnt Ole do this" and "why hasnt Ole done that", easy looking in from the outside without an inkling on whats going on inside.
Now, of course, blame must be attributed to all, Ole cannot be faultless, but he needs the tools to do the job.
The people who are making the decisions at our club have proved they are clueless.
From day one, why bring in Moyes without certain restrictions that could be "relaxed" after he has proven himself, i.e. dont break up the coaching staff and a title winning team from the get go.
Why bring in Van Gaal, knowing full well the type of manager he is and then being "spineless" about it once the fans start complaining.
Almost everybody associated with football, who has half a brain, knows what type of manager Mourinhio is, the type of players he likes and the style of play he implements. So what was the point in bringing him in and than not backing him, irrespective of if the players he wanted were not deemed the "correct" ones by God knows who.....
And now we come to Ole, a knee jerk appointment by a non qualified board.
Its understandable that those of us who associate ourselves with this club, as fans, could have got carried away with Ole's appointment and the manner it was made, however, thats is not Ole's fault, we all know who/are were responsibilty for that.
So all in all, I am still Ole in as you need to back your manager and seeing our board took a decision to hire a manager who we would have to "grow" with (well you would assume that was a given, right ??), they should either back him or resign.
They are now on the 4th manager after Sir Alex and the pattern of how they are condcuting themselves is very clear.
Money first, everything else is a secondary factor, thats why we will never see any of the upper management resign (im talking about the board, not coaching staff etc).
And before some of you come and say the Glazers have spent money on players etc, well yeah, they have spent, but how have they spent?
They have spent with no plan, no direction, because they know nothing about football ...........
He is actually in a worse position to our previous managers in that he is still considered a "rookie" manager who has yet to prove himself at the highest level.
Being able to make decision, from a position of strength, for a manager in such a historic club, requires a few pre-requisites
1/ Have the full backing of the board and full control of which players are brough in or sold
2/ Have players who are able to step in and take the place of "under performing" players
3/ Have a number of players in the squad who are "strong characters" and are in full agreement with the manager and the direction the club is going
1, 2 & 3 than give the manager the "courage" to implement the changes that need implementing without the fear of "losing the dressing room" or "upsetting" certain key player
Its so easy as fans to cry and whine, saying "why didnt Ole do this" and "why hasnt Ole done that", easy looking in from the outside without an inkling on whats going on inside.
Now, of course, blame must be attributed to all, Ole cannot be faultless, but he needs the tools to do the job.
The people who are making the decisions at our club have proved they are clueless.
From day one, why bring in Moyes without certain restrictions that could be "relaxed" after he has proven himself, i.e. dont break up the coaching staff and a title winning team from the get go.
Why bring in Van Gaal, knowing full well the type of manager he is and then being "spineless" about it once the fans start complaining.
Almost everybody associated with football, who has half a brain, knows what type of manager Mourinhio is, the type of players he likes and the style of play he implements. So what was the point in bringing him in and than not backing him, irrespective of if the players he wanted were not deemed the "correct" ones by God knows who.....
And now we come to Ole, a knee jerk appointment by a non qualified board.
Its understandable that those of us who associate ourselves with this club, as fans, could have got carried away with Ole's appointment and the manner it was made, however, thats is not Ole's fault, we all know who/are were responsibilty for that.
So all in all, I am still Ole in as you need to back your manager and seeing our board took a decision to hire a manager who we would have to "grow" with (well you would assume that was a given, right ??), they should either back him or resign.
They are now on the 4th manager after Sir Alex and the pattern of how they are condcuting themselves is very clear.
Money first, everything else is a secondary factor, thats why we will never see any of the upper management resign (im talking about the board, not coaching staff etc).
And before some of you come and say the Glazers have spent money on players etc, well yeah, they have spent, but how have they spent?
They have spent with no plan, no direction, because they know nothing about football ...........
You mean Kevin Keegan? haha.
Right back at you, mate. How can you say with a straight face that we spend enough money, after looking at the spending of the other clubs I just mentioned? Are you sure it's a good argument to say that "we spent a lot since Fergie left, so why bother spending more than Sheffield United now?".
What we've spent the last 7 years is hardly relevant in my opinion. Van Gaal, Moyes and Mourinho spending a feckton on bad players/bad fits doesn't defend not spending now, when the players we need are available and (most?) other clubs spending more than we do. That's the recipe that got us to where we are. Van Gaal seemingly only got the 3rd and 4th choices he asked for, Mourinho didn1t get backed in the market before his meltdown. Are we really going to use spending under David Moyes as a stick to beat Ole with?
We were well aware of the massive overhaul needed to fix the squad, and we're only half way there spending wise. The fact that we spent a lot after Fergie doesn't change the fact that we need to spend a lot more than we're doing right now.
Also, the wages is a big part of why I think the issue runs a lot deeper than Ole. That is 100% on Ed, the board, or whoever is in charge of contracts.
Yes. Supported by their gov. Without any competition in a 2 horse league. After spending millions every year getting every super star they can get. They're not called Galacticos for nothing. And then they got wooped by Barcelona. Speaking of Barcelona, they are now in the same ship as Madrid after they tried going Galacticos themselves and are now desperate to get rid of players for another rebuild.
If anything, I would rather look to the German clubs for a proper way to run the club.
I guess you haven't seen Leeds with Marcelo Bielsa, Leicester, Everton with Ancelloti(though many of you consider him a has-been) , hell I'd even take Hasenhüttl over Ole.
No need to mention Pochettino I can see that you're an Ole fanboy
He won the league twice out of like, 7 seasons managing Molde? and that was in his first two seasons I believe, after he messed up with Cardiff they took him back and he didn't do anything for years, infact Molde improved and won the league after he left. I'd hardly call this setting the amazing Norwegian league on fire.
I really think this needs to be repeated.
- Play defensive? Oh no ambition. Not United style. Get rid
- Play attacking and get trashed? Oh lousy manager. Clueless manager. Get rid.
- Change manager for the umpteenth time and waste another 300 million to rebuild but refuse to buy the key players the manager wants in the second season? So what if we bought an 80 million GBP target man but refused to buy a proper winger to feed the target man? We already spent so much last season. Make do. If the team underperforms? Lousy manager. Clueless manager. Get rid.
- The club don't want to get you your winger and centerback. But we got this inside forward. Do you want to compromise? If you do and player flops, manager is clueless. Lousy manager. Get rid.
- If you don't and the team loses? Clueless manager. Lousy manager. Get rid.
- Complain publicly? Oh toxic manager. Negative manager. Get rid.
- Refuse to complain publicly? Oh spineless manager. Bootlicker manager. Traitor. Get rid.
Woke up pissed off. I need to emotionally detach myself from this club while this guy is still here. This stuff isn't good.
Since Ole took over we've spent a lot (€70m) less than Man City, less than Chelsea (€40m, even though they had a transfer ban). We spent about the same as Spurs (€7m more) and just a bit more (€12m) than Aston Villa.
Okay, we might still spend some money before the window closes. It seems to be about €20m or so on Telles and Dembélé on loan. Which bring our spending closer to Villa and Everton, who still have spent more money than us (unless we surprise everyone with a big signing today).
The couple of clubs spending more than us are the ones we should be competing with, though. Chelsea and Man City are spending a lot, which is a big reason why we should spend a lot as well. They see a problem, and they try to fix it. We've had a problem at RW for the better part of a decade, and we still haven't fixed it. We might get a stop gap in Dembélé for a season, and start over trying to fix it again next season. A club of our size should be among the top spenders every season. Not just in the first window of a new manager. Backing him for 12 months, only to stop spending the window after, is not gonna get us anywhere. Arsenal are notorious penny pinchers, and they are reaping the rewards. Liverpool obviously haven't spent a lot for the past three windows, since they're not in need of a massive overhaul.
And my comparison was only in England. If I include the rest of Europe, all of Barcelona, Real Madrid, Atletico Madrid, Juventus, Man City, Chelsea, Inter Milan, and Napoli have spent more money than us since Oles arrival. How many of these clubs should be able to beat us financially? Should we not be able to spend more than Napoli and Atletico Madrid?
No. I just refuse to condemn a man who is trying his best for the club. Is he good enough? I don't know. Maybe not. Only time will tell.
I also am getting sick and tired of the carousel of managers and the constant tearing down and rebuilding the squad.
I'm also getting tired of the next big thing here and there. Like Andre Villas Boas, etc. If anything, I wanted Mourinho when SAF retired. Instead we got Moyes. I wanted Klopp when we hired Mourinho. But I digress.
Even if we get a new manager, he is just going to end up being constrained halfway through his rebuild. Just like Mourinho. Just like Ole. Will he be able to survive through at least 2 to 3 seasons in order to finish his rebuild?
Or are we going to end up having the same conversation all over again in 2 years time? Aren't you sick of it? I know I am. So I hope for something different. I hope for something to change upstairs. And knowing that is impossible. I hope that at least an honest Red supporter can try his best to complete at least ONE cycle of rebuild. Then we see where the chips fall and if any heads need to roll.
Klopp was an elite manager with a proven record at the highest level by the time he touched down in Liverpool. Even then, within 6-12 months you could see his hand and influence on Liverpool's playstyle.
In contrast, Ole is a bum of a manager, with his only redeeming factors being a likeable guy and the fact he used to be a super sub for us. Guy has been managing us for 23+ months, and by far for the majority of that time we've been awful. Apparently we need +£100M investment to not be outplayed by Brighton and to look semi-organised.
Ole got the second highest league finish post Fergie. In his first full season in charge. I guess that counts for nothing?
This has been discussed to death elsewhere. He won the league and the cup in record breaking fashion with a club who’d never win the league from a tiny city even by Norwegian standards. Of course it’s “the amazing Norwegian league”, but he absolutely did set it on fire for a while. And the club is still reaping the rewards from his time there, being perennial contenders and once again playing in the Europa League.
So because we spent less than Chelsea, Man City, Spurs, Aston Villa then we have to accept the result of these 3 recent matches (even the win against Brighton, we probably could lose 7-3 if ball didnt hit the post 5 times). The board is disgrace, totally agree, but for this particular lost, It's all counted on Ole. Jezz ...
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Not behind him enough to buy him his first choice targets, just like LVG and Jose. Surprise surprise.
So after another 200m spent, we need to spend another 200m so that we can say Ole is backed?
Ancelotti spent as half as we did on Maguire to form an entire midfield in James, Allan and Doucouré, that looks well suited to the task of attacking a top 4 finish, yet we get Ole a free pass for buying 130m worth of defenders that ship 11 goals in 3 games and look all over the place, despite being around for an year to bed in?
Quality managers get to work with what they got and improve on what they got. Klopp was making CL finals and winning the league with players like Moreno, Klavan, Matip, Lovren, Karius, Lallana, Can, Origi - who would have been labelled donkeys around here and deemed deadwood blamed on the previous manager.
Ole was backed, don't get on that. For a someone who won feck all in his career as manager and still hasn't won feck all despite north of 200m spent, I'd say he received plenty of support from the board.
Players like Maguire, AWB, James will pretty much be labelled a deadwood for the next manager and so on. Do you consider 130m spent on Maguire and AWB to be well spent on this stage, to warrant giving him another 200m to play with?
That tweet left out the word "hiding" between totally and behind.
There seems to be a number of people who think Ole is on the verge of getting sacked. Nah.
Short of a calamitous run of results that has us in the bottom three after 10 games or so, Ole will remain in charge untill top-four is no longer a mathmatical possibility.
Short of a calamitous run of results that has us in the bottom three after 10 games or so, Ole will remain in charge untill top-four is no longer a mathmatical possibility.
Thanks Ed, what a relief to hear.
"Time will tell", so ho much time should Ole get? Isn't it enough for 2 years now?
And don't start with this crap that he hasn't got the players he wants, cause I can tell you right now that give me the players I want and I'll get you the Premier League within my first year. Totally bollocks.
This whole rebuild thing is pure shit, packed by Ed and served by the best waiter that every United fan likes in Ole.
Teams rebuild and grow all the time we don't have to stick to an obviously inept manager to guide us through this. If Ole leaves the next manager will continue from there, it's not nuclear science.
No it doesn't count for anything when you finish 3rd with 66 points because everyone around you is shit and for 7 months we didn't know what to do with the freaking ball till Bruno came.
After 2 whole years where is this famous progress and the United style of play? At best last year when we were winning teams from the top 6 it was Mourinho tactics (which I have no problem whatsoever) and then we were struggling against smaller teams (till Bruno).
I think that the only learning curve that Ole keeps mentioning all the time is about himself not the players.
Exactly, this little arrangement suits everybody far too much for it to become a problem. It will be the most damaging managerial stint we've seen in the Woodward years. When we're absolutely decimated, nobody wanting to join and these same players walking around the pitch, battling relegation, then shit will hit the fan.
The board haven't done one thing or the other here. Half-cocked all the time after an initial investment. Same thing happened with Jose.
It isn't entirely Ole's fault but he's going to have to go now because he already got the maximum out of this squad (much like Jose did when he finished 2nd) and then hasn't been given the tools to improve. It will be seen as Ole's fault as he's the manager but the higher ups are more to blame. That isn't changing though, it's pretty clear after the years they've been there failing and not taking responsibility.
Ole might see out the season but he will not be Man Utd manager next season now.
The club have started a process and changed their mind half way through again, rinse and repeat. We're going nowhere.
For what it's worth, my stance has always been:
Ole is not the man to win major trophies at Man Utd. He will not do it regardless of what the board do. However, I think he could have built a good squad in good spirit wherein the next manager (hopefully a truly world class one) could step in and not have to drastically change the personnel.
I was hopeful we would get the CB, RW and FB we have all been asking for since Jose first came (and probably before that even). Ole has been given a midfielder that was more of a squad addition rather than a first XI addition (exactly like Jose again) yet is expected to challenge the top two. It looks like we won't get the right signings now, so I see no reason for Ole to stay, might as well change it if we're looking awful again.
It isn't entirely Ole's fault but he's going to have to go now because he already got the maximum out of this squad (much like Jose did when he finished 2nd) and then hasn't been given the tools to improve. It will be seen as Ole's fault as he's the manager but the higher ups are more to blame. That isn't changing though, it's pretty clear after the years they've been there failing and not taking responsibility.
Ole might see out the season but he will not be Man Utd manager next season now.
The club have started a process and changed their mind half way through again, rinse and repeat. We're going nowhere.
For what it's worth, my stance has always been:
Ole is not the man to win major trophies at Man Utd. He will not do it regardless of what the board do. However, I think he could have built a good squad in good spirit wherein the next manager (hopefully a truly world class one) could step in and not have to drastically change the personnel.
I was hopeful we would get the CB, RW and FB we have all been asking for since Jose first came (and probably before that even). Ole has been given a midfielder that was more of a squad addition rather than a first XI addition (exactly like Jose again) yet is expected to challenge the top two. It looks like we won't get the right signings now, so I see no reason for Ole to stay, might as well change it if we're looking awful again.
Reading headlines today as it seems he will survive that debacle. No words, just no words.
I’d take how fragile we are in defence if we were absolutely prolific going forward. But we struggle to even create chances let alone score them.
What is Solskjaer improving exactly? All I see is a mediocrity from the manager and his coaching staff.
What is Solskjaer improving exactly? All I see is a mediocrity from the manager and his coaching staff.
I don't think its only because they are good business men. They sold players because they still have value since kloop knows how to use them and they know when to sell.
Look at James. We don't want to sell him for 25mil despite knowing that he will probably play a little and we are looking to have him as our 5th choice. In one year his value will be much less, and then we will demand 25mil because "thats what we were offered last year". The same with Fred. He was our best player up until Bruno came, but since the lockdown he has started what? 4-5 games? What is his value now? A player who has barely kicked a ball for 6 months. Ole doesn't know how to rotate the players, thus their value drops and the guys above him look players as they are some kind of field with no depreciation at all.
Its depressing, and thats why Ole out is not enough for me. Ole/Woodward out should be the way forward.
They've backed themselves into a corner. If they sacked him now just before or after the window has closed it will make the board look even more incompetent than they actually are. Similarly how they couldn't get rid of Ole after we went on a terrible run of form after the PSG game because they gave him the job on a permanent contract a few months before. I think he'll get the season providing we remain within touching distance of the top 4.
Have you watched the last 6 - 7 years? I'm not sure you have because that has been happening every 2 years. I do not pretend I am psychic like you. I do not know what will or will not happen. I also try to focus on the facts and bigger picture instead of hyperbole. I understand the rebuild will take years rather than months to completel. All I can say is, let's wait till at least Dec or end of season and then reassess from there based on the results. At regular intervals. It's not rocket science.
I see. What you mean to say, is that it doesn't count when it doesn't suit your narrative. And despite your claims to the contrary, this team has played some good football at times, btw.
How about use the players they have properly like Flick, Poch, Kloop and many others do? How about when they are supported they don't buy dross like Lukaku, Lindelof, Fellaini, Maguire, Bissaka etc? How about not sticking to underperforming players like Rooney, Pogba, DDG?
Not all the teams do what City does that buys Pep new toys every 6 months. But all the teams that are better than us change managers. Ole has been here 2 years. He had time to asses the weaknesses, the first 6 months, time to address them, a whole season, and time to improve. The team is going backwards, no game plan, no man management, no results.
Good balanced post!
And here you are! Haven’t seen you since the Burnley loss. Have you been away? Or Is the smell of blood making you circle again? Haven’t read a single post on our third place. Not a single post on our run of good football. But here we are, and I suspect you will have a few weeks run at it. With you and your poison here, is a good reason to stay away..So after another 200m spent, we need to spend another 200m so that we can say Ole is backed?
Ancelotti spent as half as we did on Maguire to form an entire midfield in James, Allan and Doucouré, that looks well suited to the task of attacking a top 4 finish, yet we get Ole a free pass for buying 130m worth of defenders that ship 11 goals in 3 games and look all over the place, despite being around for an year to bed in?
Quality managers get to work with what they got and improve on what they got. Klopp was making CL finals and winning the league with players like Moreno, Klavan, Matip, Lovren, Karius, Lallana, Can, Origi - who would have been labelled donkeys around here and deemed deadwood blamed on the previous manager.
Ole was backed, don't get on that. For a someone who won feck all in his career as manager and still hasn't won feck all despite north of 200m spent, I'd say he received plenty of support from the board.
Players like Maguire, AWB, James will pretty much be labelled a deadwood for the next manager and so on. Do you consider 130m spent on Maguire and AWB to be well spent on this stage, to warrant giving him another 200m to play with?
Ole was out-gamed for the Spurs match by a coach who specializes in gamesmanship. First 2 Spurs goals showed that clearly. So add
"Out-gamed by the master of cynicism".
Jog on. Weren't multi accounts banned around here?
Have we won something of note to brag about and write home about? Has Ole became a better manager?
This charade will go on this season probably for last time, whilst we end up with another 200-300m "well spent" and another two season wasted - this one and the next one. I'm happy that you can brag with that 3rd place though.
And the point of citing a post I made months ago is what?
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