Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

Just saw we would be playing two games a week facing Newcastle PSG Chelsea Leipzig Arsenal Istanbul and Everton. I think what matters most for Ole to keep his job is how we play in these games more than the result. If we play some dreadful stuff then Ole will be gone by the next international break

 

[FatherWolff]

I absolutely believe that our squad last season was much better than 66 points. Maybe a better manager might get us closer. Just because Ole didn’t do it, doesn’t make it impossible.

Playing Pereira, Lingard and Jones pretty much makes it impossible. Our first team was, our squad definitely wasn’t. Wonder how many times or how many managers we need before people realise that. Some might even see the “lack of coaching” as a squad assembled by three managers..

 

[sammsky1]

It is actually easy to differ a good or average manager. You see the players he has, and whether he can make his team perform above individual qualities.
So what do you think of Ole and United? And he's been managing United long enough to "coach" them.

In the end, that's all bollox. Points, league table position and trophies are the only thing that matters.
In a very short time, Ole has quantitatively improved the team on every metric.

All his critics have against him his some vague and meaningless notion of 'coaching and style of play' and a bad start to this season (3 games!). They can rant and rave as much as they like, fill the internet with millions of word of bile, but they cant actually prove anything.

 

[sammsky1]

I think that depends on the nature of the 3rd place:
66 points after some very fortunate results due to penalties and other teams throwing it away. A season saved due to the club having to spend big in January to bail an inept manager out.
Or,
3 points behind 1st and 2nd after playing some really good attacking football. A team with a clear plan and style of play.

I think I know what I’d rather.

If, Buts, Ors, Prefers are all meaningless.

 

[Foxbatt]

There is no ifs and buts. He has a very good class of players. All internationals and playing well for their countries. Back at United they are lost as a team.

 

[Class of 63]

There is no ifs and buts. He has a very good class of players. All internationals and playing well for their countries. Back at United they are lost as a team.

Most of the lads will be playing alongside players for their National teams that also went deep into last years European competitions so at a similar level of preparation for the new season.

 

[Bebestation]

There is no ifs and buts. He has a very good class of players. All internationals and playing well for their countries. Back at United they are lost as a team.

Is this group of players we have title worthy or a top 4 team worthy?

I just ask because clearly alot of fans are irritated with Ole (me included) - is that because Ole cant win a title with these players or Ole cant get another top 4 with these players.

If the group of players we have are title worthy in peoples eyes then that's what we should expect from him.

However, If the players are a top 4 club type of group then that's what we should expect likewise.

Now, yes we can complain about the football not being up to standard (as I do) - however if Ole is able to get a group of top 4 club type players a position in the CL again then what's exactly stopping him taking a title winning group of players to win the title?

We can complain about the football and tactics as much as we want - but if he is taking a group of players to their abilities and max potential then do we just need better players to increase our targets?

Personally, as poor as our whole team has been in the first 3 games - I wouldn't exactly count us out in making the top 4 & for me that's the ability of the players we have.

 

[Sky1981]

Those two clubs have a sporting structure designed towards success on the pitch, where the manager is just one cog among many. We don't have that structure, and likely never will while Woodward is here.

That is why we have to be patient with managers, because we can't afford not to. Sacking every other year will just ensure we are at best in the same position as we are now. Unless it goes horribly wrong and we're lower table in March, the least Ole deserves is the time to set things back on course after getting 3rd with the worst Utd squad in the PL era.

Maybe it's our fault as a club.

We hire managers and tell them to become SAF 2.0, we told them to restructure, rebuilt, revamp, instead of telling them to "win somethin in 2 years and we'll see". It's like hiring a manager and expect them to do a founder's job,.

Look at our manager's casualty
Moyes : first 2 years is a write off, so bad he's gone in 10 months.
LVG : First 2 years is a write off, philosophy building they say
Jose : Our first short term fix
Ole ; His first 2 years looks already a write off

Every fecking manager that comes to United first instinct is to Demolish the house and starts over fresh (maybe because that's what they're told to) instead of "Hang on, SAF won with this squad. It's good enough as it is", our first instinct in assessing manager is "how many deadwoods he shipped?"

Maybe it's time to just hire a short term coach, and take it one season at a time.

 

[Isotope]

In the end, that's all bollox. Points, league table position and trophies are the only thing that matters.
In a very short time, Ole has quantitatively improved the team on every metric.

All his critics have against him his some vague and meaningless notion of 'coaching and style of play' and a bad start to this season (3 games!). They can rant and rave as much as they like, fill the internet with millions of word of bile, but they cant actually prove anything.

How coaching and style of play are meaningless? Do you just checking the score at the end of every game? Or just checking the team position at the end of every season?

 

[anant]

I think that depends on the nature of the 3rd place:
66 points after some very fortunate results due to penalties and other teams throwing it away. A season saved due to the club having to spend big in January to bail an inept manager out.
Or,
3 points behind 1st and 2nd after playing some really good attacking football. A team with a clear plan and style of play.

I think I know what I’d rather.

I love how Ole outers never fail to bring up 'fortunate results' and pens towards the end of last season, but never bring up the fact that we had more unfortunate results in the start of the season and injuries to arguably three of our most important players at the start of the season

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

I love how Ole outers never fail to bring up 'fortunate results' and pens towards the end of last season, but never bring up the fact that we had more unfortunate results in the start of the season and injuries to arguably three of our most important players at the start of the season

Last season we were both fortunate and unfortunate. Unfortunate with the injuries we had in the first half of the season and fortunate with the missing key players leceister had in the second half of the season. If Leceister didn't lose their key players we wouldn't have gotten top 4. You could say the same for them

 

[FatherWolff]

Last season we were both fortunate and unfortunate. Unfortunate with the injuries we had in the first half of the season and fortunate with the missing key players leceister had in the second half of the season. If Leceister didn't lose their key players we wouldn't have gotten top 4. You could say the same for them

Sounds like a regular season then. The obvious about Leicester and us are the lack of squad depth. Or quality of.

 

[Mainoldo]

Are you saying that Pogba, Martial and Rashford weren't important last year? Most people regarded Pogba as our most important MF at the start of the season, Rashy and martial were the only 2 forwards who weren't rookies and of Man Utd quality. How can one even say that had they not been out for so long, we wouldn't have gained points!?!

Please don’t mention Pogba. When Fred and McTominay were flying.. threads about him not making the starting line up was peak.

 

[Tel074]

We need a coach that can manage with an iron fist and motivate these players on a consistent basis like what Bielsa has done to Leeds. We don't play with urgency at all. The players sometimes play like they need a kick up the ass to wake up and it only seems to happen when they score us or when we play against big teams or when everybody has written us off. I think this is a huge reason why we can range from playing so well to piss poor. The players always need a certain stimuli to be motivated. I wouldn't be surprised if we smashed Newcastle

Jose and LVG said hi

 

[Tom Cato]

I'll keep Ole.

Consistency is key, not reactionary panicking.

No one is going to manage Harry Maguire away from pulling Luke Shaws arm, so I'm happy to stand with the current manager. It's the players jobs to execute.

 

[Tel074]

Maybe it's our fault as a club.

We hire managers and tell them to become SAF 2.0, we told them to restructure, rebuilt, revamp, instead of telling them to "win somethin in 2 years and we'll see". It's like hiring a manager and expect them to do a founder's job,.

Look at our manager's casualty
Moyes : first 2 years is a write off, so bad he's gone in 10 months.
LVG : First 2 years is a write off, philosophy building they say
Jose : Our first short term fix
Ole ; His first 2 years looks already a write off

Every fecking manager that comes to United first instinct is to Demolish the house and starts over fresh (maybe because that's what they're told to) instead of "Hang on, SAF won with this squad. It's good enough as it is", our first instinct in assessing manager is "how many deadwoods he shipped?"

Maybe it's time to just hire a short term coach, and take it one season at a time.

Jose was exactly that man he was hired to win and win right away which he did and then like Ole now and Moyes he wasn't backed when they all had CL football to play .

 

[aditya826]

I'll keep Ole.

Consistency is key, not reactionary panicking.

No one is going to manage Harry Maguire away from pulling Luke Shaws arm, so I'm happy to stand with the current manager. It's the players jobs to execute.

You'll "keep" a Glazer appointee for the sake of virtue signaling.

Solskjaer's appointment was "reactionary panicking" both as an interim manager as well as a permanent manager and yet you pretend that you aren't the one being reactionary.

The only consistency Ole can give is consistently lowering our expectations as is evident in his 2 seasons in charge.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

Jose and LVG said hi

Cliche reply. LVG and Mourinho didn't do what I said we needed in a coach during their time here

 

[Tom Cato]

You'll "keep" a Glazer appointee for the sake of virtue signaling.

Solskjaer's appointment was "reactionary panicking" both as an interim manager as well as a permanent manager and yet you pretend that you aren't the one being reactionary.

The only consistency Ole can give is consistently lowering our expectations as is evident in his 2 seasons in charge.

All managers are Glazer appointee's. Who do you think is hiring them?

Solskjaers appointment came following what was a tidal wave of positivity and hype around the club, everyone felt great about that at the time. And by everyone I mean everyone who doesn't spend their waking hours complaining about everything. Not sure how you can possibly complain about the hiring as interim manager considering the results that came with it. Can you elaborate on why you complain about that?

I look forward to your positive comments once we beat Newcastle 4-0. And your negative one when we lose to PSG.

 

[VP89]

I'll keep Ole.

Consistency is key, not reactionary panicking.

No one is going to manage Harry Maguire away from pulling Luke Shaws arm, so I'm happy to stand with the current manager. It's the players jobs to execute.

I'm confused, you think we weren't getting completely outplayed, outrun and outsmarted aside of this incident? I mean, they were creating bucket loads.

We have a serious issue in the team selection, in the transition from defence to attack, and in the running distance covered, together with our team press. If we were losing games because Maguire made mistakes in each one then sure. But that's not the case - we're generally outplayed all over the park and rely on individual creativity or chemistry in 1-2s to pick up goals. That's down to coaching, plain and simple.

 

[Judas]

The players we have would perform better under a more talented manager, obviously.

 

[romufc]

Coaching and tactics. The manager has a way of playing in his mind, high pressing, fast football but what actually happens is crap pressing, getting opened up and very slow football.

I cannot understand how a manager wants to play a certain style but cannot achieve anything he wants.

 

[Uniteddy]

In the end, that's all bollox. Points, league table position and trophies are the only thing that matters.
In a very short time, Ole has quantitatively improved the team on every metric.

All his critics have against him his some vague and meaningless notion of 'coaching and style of play' and a bad start to this season (3 games!). They can rant and rave as much as they like, fill the internet with millions of word of bile, but they cant actually prove anything.

He has improved the team on every quantitative measure?
Points
Both seasons he completed are quantitatively worse than his predecessor.
You can put in caveats and excuses but we are talking quantitively.

League Position
Can be a rank but this is Manchester United, self proclaimed biggest club in the world, and the only position we should remember is 1st.
Gap to 1st is another position and shows how far we are from where we want to be.
Apart from champions league qualification who cares where we finish if we don't win?
Ole has not improved on the rank in Jose's last season and we are further behind the top than ever.

Trophies
This is definitely not an argument in Ole's favour.
Unless we have fully transformed into Arsenal and are counting top 4 as a trophy?

Manager	Season	Points	Position	Points behind first	Trophies
Moyes	2013–14	64​	7​	22​
LVG	2014–15	70​	4​	17​
LVG	2015–16	66​	5​	15​	1​	FA Cup
Jose	2016–17	69​	6​	24​	2​	Europa, League Cup
Jose	2017–18	81​	2​	19​
Jose/Ole	2018–19	66​	6​	32​
Ole	2019–20	66​	3​	33​

 

[VP89]

He has improved the team on every quantitative measure?
Points
Both seasons he completed are quantitatively worse than his predecessor.
You can put in caveats and excuses but we are talking quantitively.

League Position
Can be a rank but this is Manchester United, self proclaimed biggest club in the world, and the only position we should remember is 1st.
Gap to 1st is another position and shows how far we are from where we want to be.
Apart from champions league qualification who cares where we finish if we don't win?
Ole has not improved on the rank in Jose's last season and we are further behind the top than ever.

Trophies
This is definitely not an argument in Ole's favour.
Unless we have fully transformed into Arsenal and are counting top 4 as a trophy?

Manager	Season	Points	Position	Points behind first	Trophies
Moyes	2013–14	64​	7​	22​
LVG	2014–15	70​	4​	17​
LVG	2015–16	66​	5​	15​	1​	FA Cup
Jose	2016–17	69​	6​	24​	2​	Europa, League Cup
Jose	2017–18	81​	2​	19​
Jose/Ole	2018–19	66​	6​	32​
Ole	2019–20	66​	3​	33​

Literally the only argument for Ole is that he got 3rd last year. But he was equally 90 minutes from finishing 5th.

Had he finished 5th, with no trophies and on 63 points that would have been unanimously agreed as a sack. It's interesting how 90 minutes change the outlook toward a manager.

 

[Withnail]

Please don’t mention Pogba. When Fred and McTominay were flying.. threads about him not making the starting line up was peak.

It was also bullshit though. He was never not making the starting line up.

He has improved the team on every quantitative measure?
Points
Both seasons he completed are quantitatively worse than his predecessor.
You can put in caveats and excuses but we are talking quantitively.

League Position
Can be a rank but this is Manchester United, self proclaimed biggest club in the world, and the only position we should remember is 1st.
Gap to 1st is another position and shows how far we are from where we want to be.
Apart from champions league qualification who cares where we finish if we don't win?
Ole has not improved on the rank in Jose's last season and we are further behind the top than ever.

Trophies
This is definitely not an argument in Ole's favour.
Unless we have fully transformed into Arsenal and are counting top 4 as a trophy?

Manager	Season	Points	Position	Points behind first	Trophies
Moyes	2013–14	64​	7​	22​
LVG	2014–15	70​	4​	17​
LVG	2015–16	66​	5​	15​	1​	FA Cup
Jose	2016–17	69​	6​	24​	2​	Europa, League Cup
Jose	2017–18	81​	2​	19​
Jose/Ole	2018–19	66​	6​	32​
Ole	2019–20	66​	3​	33​

Come on mate.

It's disingenuous to state that the 66 pts from a season Ole 'completed' was worse than the 81pts Mourinho got the year before when Mourinho presided over the terrible start that year thus contributing to the total.

 

[Withnail]

Literally the only argument for Ole is that he got 3rd last year. But he was equally 90 minutes from finishing 5th.

Had he finished 5th, with no trophies and on 63 points that would have been unanimously agreed as a sack. It's interesting how 90 minutes change the outlook toward a manager.

That's' football though isn't it?

If we discount whole games of football or reverse the results then none of the top managers were as good as they were.

This is why we don't judge things on one game or one dodgy decision and look at the league position over a whole season. It's also why we shouldn't be knee-jerking all over the place after three games.

 

[Uniteddy]

It was also bullshit though. He was never not making the starting line up.


Come on mate.

It's disingenuous to state that the 66 pts from a season Ole 'completed' was worse than the 81pts Mourinho got the year before when Mourinho presided over the terrible start that year thus contributing to the total.

They guy I was quoting said quantitatively improving.

So lets look at the excuse.
Mourinho finished second on 81 in 2018.
Mourinho was actively trying to get sacked at the start of the next season.
Ole had a great run and finished with 6th 66 points.
Next season without the handicap of Mourinho sabotage Ole improved by a grand total of zero points.

We are still 15 points off what we finished 2 seasons ago.

I have stayed out of this debate, even in real life, because it is too emotional for most supporters.
I get that Ole probably feels better to some people and even that he seems to have changed some things culturally.
He has some positives no doubt.

I only commented to call out that poster stating three metrics that matter and that Ole has quantitatively improved them.
That was just an outrageous claim and incorrect.

 

[VP89]

That's' football though isn't it?

If we discount whole games of football or reverse the results then none of the top managers were as good as they were.

This is why we don't judge things on one game or one dodgy decision and look at the league position over a whole season. It's also why we shouldn't be knee-jerking all over the place after three games.

This is what I'm saying. It's not based on 3 games - he's been inconsistent throughout last season and just ridiculously lucky that other clubs around him all changed manager + the cup final equivalent versus Leicester had them missing 3/4 first choice defenders + their most creative outlet.

 

[Dr. StrangeHate]

I reckon Klopp could take a run at the title with United's current squad. I can't say the same about Ole.

Imagine Ole in charge at Liverpool. Would they make the top 6? I don't think so.

Our forward line is too inconsistent for a title run. He would get around 80 points though.
Ole in charge of Liverpool will be easily 2nd with the present squad. If you are saying that Ole joined them when Klopp did then yes 6th is quite likely.

 

[Withnail]

This is what I'm saying. It's not based on 3 games - he's been inconsistent throughout last season and just ridiculously lucky that other clubs around him all changed manager + the cup final equivalent versus Leicester had them missing 3/4 first choice defenders + their most creative outlet.

So why re-write history to try to make your point? Plenty of achievements can be written off if we randomly go round reversing results.

You can claim inconsistency but a poor start followed by an unbeaten run doesn't spell inconsistency to me. They ran out of steam towards the end but again I don't think that can be put down to inconsistency.

 

[Tom Cato]

Coaching and tactics. The manager has a way of playing in his mind, high pressing, fast football but what actually happens is crap pressing, getting opened up and very slow football.

I cannot understand how a manager wants to play a certain style but cannot achieve anything he wants.

Because his physical presence is not on the pitch?

 

[aditya826]

It's disingenuous to state that the 66 pts from a season Ole 'completed' was worse than the 81pts Mourinho got the year before when Mourinho presided over the terrible start that year thus contributing to the total.

Not at all. When Mourinho was sacked we had 26 points in 17 games winning 7 of them. Ole came in went on a brief winning run and then tapered off in the end with 66 points.

Next season Ole began the first 17 games with 25 points (1 lower than Mourinho before he was sacked) winning 6 of them and ended the season with 66 points which was exactly the point total last season.

In short,

Full Season Mourinho - 81 points
Full Season Ole Gunnar Solskjaer - 66 points.

Half Season Mourinho - 26 points (with Lee Grant, Fred and Dalot)
Half Season Solskjaer - 25 points (with 80 million Maguire, 50 million AWB, and Daniel James)

I'll let the numbers speak for themselves.

 

[VP89]

So why re-write history to try to make your point? Plenty of achievements can be written off if we randomly go round reversing results.

You can claim inconsistency but a poor start followed by an unbeaten run doesn't spell inconsistency to me. They ran out of steam towards the end but again I don't think that can be put down to inconsistency.

No one is re-writing history. I'm looking at the games as they unfolded and pointed to much fortune that the crunch game went in his favour.

Moreover it's not a mere "claim". 66 points is one of the lowest we've had and it factually points to inconsistency. I mean half a season in he was doing around the same as Jose when he got sacked, having spent over £150m on the team. Winning 10 games in a row and then drawing 6 does is the same points as consecutively bouncing between win/draw/win. His patchy form of some good wins, then shit form, then some good wins points to inconsistency as a manager. The disjointed performances and failure to transition from defence to attack in sustained periods points to inadequate coaching. His claim that he wants us to be the most hard working and best pressed side, whilst currently standing near the bottom in distance covered (after almost 2 years in the role) is also pointing to inadequate implementation.

No one is re-writing anything here, I'm giving the facts. The only hypothetical I gave was that he would have been sacked if he lost to Leicester, and that's because he was so inconsistent before that to get to 63 points before the crunch game. The problems were there before these 3 matches. Which, is why I'm confused why posters like you keep talking like the issue only just started because of 3 PL fixtures.

 

[Garethw]

I'll keep Ole.

Consistency is key, not reactionary panicking.

No one is going to manage Harry Maguire away from pulling Luke Shaws arm, so I'm happy to stand with the current manager. It's the players jobs to execute.

When a couple of players are underperforming then that’s on them. When an entire team looks shit, with the defence not having a clue, the midfield not having a clue, and the attack not having a clue, then that is on the coaching and management of a team.

We rely almost completely on individual brilliance and penalties at the moment. We are an incredibly poorly managed and coached team.

 

[Class of 63]

Nothing wrong with it. Just make sure you follow him out of the club when he is eventually sacked. Maybe supporting (simping) him in whatever job he gets, *IFF* he gets a job that is.

 

[Withnail]

Not at all. When Mourinho was sacked we had 26 points in 17 games winning 7 of them. Ole came in went on a brief winning run and then tapered off in the end with 66 points.

Next season Ole began the first 17 games with 25 points (1 lower than Mourinho before he was sacked) winning 6 of them and ended the season with 66 points which was exactly the point total last season.

In short,

Full Season Mourinho - 81 points
Full Season Ole Gunnar Solskjaer - 66 points.

Half Season Mourinho - 26 points (with Lee Grant, Fred and Dalot)
Half Season Solskjaer - 25 points (with 80 million Maguire, 50 million AWB, and Daniel James)

I'll let the numbers speak for themselves.

But you're comparing different things now. You can't just bring up different sets of figures to the ones I took issue with.

 

[rotherham_red]

Maybe it's our fault as a club.

We hire managers and tell them to become SAF 2.0, we told them to restructure, rebuilt, revamp, instead of telling them to "win somethin in 2 years and we'll see". It's like hiring a manager and expect them to do a founder's job,.

Look at our manager's casualty
Moyes : first 2 years is a write off, so bad he's gone in 10 months.
LVG : First 2 years is a write off, philosophy building they say
Jose : Our first short term fix
Ole ; His first 2 years looks already a write off

Every fecking manager that comes to United first instinct is to Demolish the house and starts over fresh (maybe because that's what they're told to) instead of "Hang on, SAF won with this squad. It's good enough as it is", our first instinct in assessing manager is "how many deadwoods he shipped?"

Maybe it's time to just hire a short term coach, and take it one season at a time.

I think you're being a tad bit hysterical re the boldened. Irrespective of what happens to Ole hereon, he's almost totally revamped the squad from the Frankenstein's monster that it was under Jose (who largely didn't bother clearing out the shit he inherited from LvG), and LvG (who turfed out perfectly good squad players in favour of the aforementioned shit). If the next person comes in, he will have a coherent squad that can be moulded to what he requires.

It is one of the youngest squads in the league and in Europe, with a front line that is a genuinely frightening prospect for any team that crosses its path. We also have a very strong, varied and flexible collection of midfielders. So much so, that you could arguably call it our strongest area. Our GK situation is also probably the best around (with the possible exception of Bayern) - you only have to look at how we were during that post-Schmeichel period or Chelsea right now, to see how much of a destabilising effect it can have on the whole team when the GK transition is bungled.

The areas which need resolution are the obvious ones of DM, CB, and RW and hopefully Ole will be able to rectify those positions next season, but if not, then you'd hope that the next man will be given that opportunity.

Also, SAF never won anything with THIS squad. Moyes had the same philosophy as what you are suggesting with that squad that SAF had, and look how that turned out. Just because the greatest manager of men and resources the game has ever seen could do something as remarkable, doesn't mean anyone else could. Also, what deadwood had been shifted under Jose? As far as I can remember, it was only Schneiderlin, Schweinsteiger and Depay. That's it. Ole probably doubled that number of outgoings in his first summer alone. And with LvG, we know what he did, and shifting of the deadwood really wasn't it. Neither did Moyes. He actually made a point of keeping every player, and gave second chances to Nani and Rooney with 5 year contracts for both. The only manager who bucked that trend was Ole, and likely it was only because he had that 7 month settling in period before his first summer transfer window.

In fact, the reality is, every manager that has come in has actually sought to give every player a new chance. It's partly why the likes of Jones and Smalling stayed as long as they did. Every manager that is, until Ole. So I'm not sure where you're getting that from, tbh.

While I agree with you that we should ultimately go with the model that several of our competitors have, we right now, do not have the system in place, despite having the means to do so. If you want us to do go down the short-term coach route, then we'd need a stellar DoF and Administrator, who would ensure that there is a sense of continuity in the project. We don't have that, and until we do, we need to back the managers and ensure that their vision is brought forward on to the pitch.

 

[rotherham_red]

No one is re-writing history. I'm looking at the games as they unfolded and pointed to much fortune that the crunch game went in his favour.

Moreover it's not a mere "claim". 66 points is one of the lowest we've had and it factually points to inconsistency. I mean half a season in he was doing around the same as Jose when he got sacked, having spent over £150m on the team. Winning 10 games in a row and then drawing 6 does is the same points as consecutively bouncing between win/draw/win. His patchy form of some good wins, then shit form, then some good wins points to inconsistency as a manager. The disjointed performances and failure to transition from defence to attack in sustained periods points to inadequate coaching. His claim that he wants us to be the most hard working and best pressed side, whilst currently standing near the bottom in distance covered (after almost 2 years in the role) is also pointing to inadequate implementation.

No one is re-writing anything here, I'm giving the facts. The only hypothetical I gave was that he would have been sacked if he lost to Leicester, and that's because he was so inconsistent before that to get to 63 points before the crunch game. The problems were there before these 3 matches. Which, is why I'm confused why posters like you keep talking like the issue only just started because of 3 PL fixtures.

You're ignoring the massive big feck off elephant in the room that is the non-existent pre-season and the ultra-long season we had.

Last season, we actually ranked far more respectably, and were near, if not at the very top of the league in terms of distance covered and pressures off the ball.

 

[VP89]

I think you're being a tad bit hysterical re the boldened. Irrespective of what happens to Ole hereon, he's almost totally revamped the squad from the Frankenstein's monster that it was under Jose (who largely didn't bother clearing out the shit he inherited from LvG), and LvG (who turfed out perfectly good squad players in favour of the aforementioned shit). If the next person comes in, he will have a coherent squad that can be moulded to what he requires.

It is one of the youngest squads in the league and in Europe, with a front line that is a genuinely frightening prospect for any team that crosses its path. We also have a very strong, varied and flexible collection of midfielders. So much so, that you could arguably call it our strongest area. Our GK situation is also probably the best around (with the possible exception of Bayern) - you only have to look at how we were during that post-Schmeichel period or Chelsea right now, to see how much of a destabilising effect it can have on the whole team when the GK transition is bungled.

The areas which need resolution are the obvious ones of DM, CB, and RW and hopefully Ole will be able to rectify those positions next season, but if not, then you'd hope that the next man will be given that opportunity.

Also, SAF never won anything with THIS squad. Moyes had the same philosophy as what you are suggesting with that squad that SAF had, and look how that turned out. Just because the greatest manager of men and resources the game has ever seen could do something as remarkable, doesn't mean anyone else could. Also, what deadwood had been shifted under Jose? As far as I can remember, it was only Schneiderlin, Schweinsteiger and Depay. That's it. Ole probably doubled that number of outgoings in his first summer alone. And with LvG, we know what he did, and shifting of the deadwood really wasn't it. Neither did Moyes. He actually made a point of keeping every player, and gave second chances to Nani and Rooney with 5 year contracts for both. The only manager who bucked that trend was Ole, and likely it was only because he had that 7 month settling in period before his first summer transfer window.

In fact, the reality is, every manager that has come in has actually sought to give every player a new chance. It's partly why the likes of Jones and Smalling stayed as long as they did. Every manager that is, until Ole. So I'm not sure where you're getting that from, tbh.

While I agree with you that we should ultimately go with the model that several of our competitors have, we right now, do not have the system in place, despite having the means to do so. If you want us to do go down the short-term coach route, then we'd need a stellar DoF and Administrator, who would ensure that there is a sense of continuity in the project. We don't have that, and until we do, we need to back the managers and ensure that their vision is brought forward on to the pitch.

With due respect to Ole, he has done a good job with the cultural reset, with embedding a mentality that the club is after, ie. an attacking fast paced one. He has cleared out players that don't fit this mould and now has a good squad to work with.

The issue for me is I think he's taken the squad as far as he is capable to do so, and for us to reach the next level , we need to bring in a coach with better pedigree and tactical nous.

 

[VP89]

You're ignoring the massive big feck off elephant in the room that is the non-existent pre-season and the ultra-long season we had.

Last season, we actually ranked far more respectably, and were near, if not at the very top of the league in terms of distance covered and pressures off the ball.

Where did you get the bold bit? https://www.skysports.com/football/...ier-league-running-stats-this-season-revealed

If you scroll down, our club is ranked 12th(!) for distance covered in the 19/20 season. This is after Ole joined us in December 2018 as caretaker, took trainings for half a season and then said he wanted us to be the fittest in the league and running the most before going into the 19/20 season.

For what it's worth, Tottenham played 3 times in a week the time they thumped us and still outran us (prior the red). The problem extended before this season in random games where we looked off the boil, e.g. Southampton I think outran us when they beat us last year too. At the very least, they outpressed the shit out of us.