Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

[theklr]

Hard to take serious a manager who thinks getting 60 points with one of the most expensive squads is good enough....

When did he say that?

 

[SAFMUTD]

The best lie weve been sell is that we are in a "rebuilding" as if our ambitions were put on hold until further notice.

When did top 4 became good enough?

People compare this shit circus with the last phase of Mourinho, when the whole squad had given up on him, of course we are better than rock bottom Mourinho but we havent even reached Mourinho's best after spending more than 250M and we seem to have regressed.

It seems no matter how bad it gets or how poor our performances are theres no preassure because we must be patient "were in a rebuilding phase". How long would this rebuild last until we can start demanding titles again?

We have lost all ambition and have disgissed our mediocrity as "patience". Truth be told we are a club that aspires to top 4, not to titles. Thats why the board is happy to continue with an average manager, at best, like Ole.

 

[SAFMUTD]

I always said that Ole is the manager who will lay good foundations for the next manager. He may be out of his depth but the bigger problem is the board and the owners.

Even if we fire Ole, the next manager will have to deal with Woody and the Glazers.

Thats a lame excuse, its like saying we shouldnt improve on a certain position, lets say right winger, because eventhough we get lets say Sancho we still have Woods and the Glazzers so theres no point on improving anything.

 

[theklr]

Leipzig pressed high and we demonstrated some of our best play out from the back. The bizarre thing is we then can't do it three days later. Rinse and repeat.

Think it comes down to having Fred as the «base»/DM against Arsenal instead of him having license to press and harass as he did against Leipzig. Shoulda started Matic as the DM role. Ofcourse it can also has something to do with how tiresome the Leipzig game was, both physically and mentally.

Lying deep like that and having to constantly concentrate has to take a toll on the players.

 

[Morpheus 7]

Any other top club would be considering a change after this start. A poor transfer window doesn't excuse how bad we have been. He's been here nearly two years now and system, lineup, tactics, consistency and even subs are still in question. If he wasn't an ex player more would be asking for a change, how many more points dropped before fans wake up. There is no pressure on the club from fans because
A) They hate the idea of starting with a new coach.
B) Fans can still think he can turn us around to competing, signs in beating top sides.

In the end I think we know we know he's not the man to win the big trophies. The consistency is something we should be seeing now. He has got good enough players to be beating most teams. He's left the team better than he found it. I just want United to get closer to the top and compete. There is no guarantee with anyone we bring in. I think Poch will not be free forever, we don't want to be pulling the trigger in February when there is nothing to play for. End with a caretaker manager like Steve Bruce to the end of the season. United have missed the boat with top coaches. In my opinion Poch would be an easier transition. Shocked how fans are still giving this inevitable sacking more time.

 

[Giggsyking]

He has done much worse than the toxic one after 100 games and we were shouting to get him out of the club, why would we give a manger who his titles was millions years ago in Norway? FFS this is Manchester fecking united and Ole is nowhere near the quality to be in the coaching staff let alone the manager. He needs to feck off now.

 

[hobbers]

Does Ole's own passivity(personality) explain the teams passivity in half our games?

It might do.

It's certainly not a good psychological message he sends when he spends the first 60-70 minutes of every game slumped over an ipad in the stands looking pensieve. And only ever gets out his seat and takes action when we go down a goal and the time starts running out. Certainly a habit the team has imbibed from him. No urgency at all was shown by any of our players while we were at 0-0 with Arsenal or with Chelsea.

 

[Adisa]

For me it is no longer get the results.
When I consider performances over 100 games, by and large they have not been good enough.
You can't even give the excuse of trend. Its just pockets of good displays among mostly rubbish.
I will take my time to express my thoughts in a proper post when I have time.
I swear to God I have nothing against Ole. I just simply can't make a case for why we should persist with someone imo that is quite clearly not at this level.

 

[glazed]

Isn't the basic question here how do you want us to play.

(1) We can play on the break but it's old fashioned and small time.
(2) We can run a high intensive press but that means starting from scratch with new team and manager - just as the tactic is going out of fashion.
(3) We can play attack with wingers only we don't have any so it have the problems of both (1) and (2) above
(4) We can just let the players figure it out for themselves and hope they know more about football than Ole.

There are other options, but we basically need to choose and develop around it. What we have at the moment is an accountant playing fantasy football.

 

[Giggsyking]

His fan boys were sarcastic about any united supporter criticizing the 15th position in the table as we had a game in hand. Now even if we win this match we would be 13th. Nice.

 

[RedDevil@84]

Isn't the basic question here how do you want us to play.

(1) We can play on the break but it's old fashioned and small time.
(2) We can run a high intensive press but that means starting from scratch with new team and manager - just as the tactic is going out of fashion.
(3) We can play attack with wingers only we don't have any so it have the problems of both (1) and (2) above
(4) We can just let the players figure it out for themselves and hope they know more about football than Ole.

There are other options, but we basically need to choose and develop around it. What we have at the moment is an accountant playing fantasy football.

But who?
Do you think Woodward chooses managers as per some master plan and footballing vision he has or does he have a team with great footballing vision and what is best for Man Utd

 

[NJM78]

His fan boys were sarcastic about any united supporter criticizing the 15th position in the table as we had a game in hand. Now even if we win this match we would be 13th. Nice.

Massive if. If any club can help the bottom team pick up points it's us.

 

[red4ever 79]

So basically you didn't read it. Because it was elaborated on very clearly and ultimately agreed with the sentiment, just not the way you've got there.

Congrats on being able to say a few damning stats. Although even then you conveniently didn't mention that if we win our game in hand we are only 6 points off top. Doesn't sound so bad then though does it.

It sounds as bad as it looks. We are 15th. Have been spanked 6-1 already. Should have been spanked by 5 against Brighton. A team packed full of CM's without addressing the number 1 issue in the summer and actually signing a winger. A manager who is so far out of his depth he makes Boris look like a good PM. On course for our worst ever start to a Premier league season, after the last worst start which was also with Ole in charge.

 

[croadyman]

It sounds as bad as it looks. We are 15th. Have been spanked 6-1 already. Should have been spanked by 5 against Brighton. A team packed full of CM's without addressing the number 1 issue in the summer and actually signing a winger. A manager who is so far out of his depth he makes Boris look like a good PM. On course for our worst ever start to a Premier league season, after the last worst start which was also with Ole in charge.

Yeah some of our fans are blinded by his status as a player at this club and cannot seperate that from him being a manager

 

[Slysi17]

Anyone hoping Ole will get sacked before top-four is no longer attainable is going to be bitterly disappointed.

He'll be in charge for the majority of the season barring a catastrophic run of results.

Disagree. Not this time. You really think the Glazers would like losing champions league revenue along with the money lost due to the coronavirus pandemic. Also Pochettino is available for free and Ole would be relatively cheap to sack.

 

[Louis Van Gonads]

Does Ole's own passivity(personality) explain the teams passivity in half our games?

I find it bizarre that this kind of point is hardly ever mentioned about Ole. The man is completely uninspiring and has no charisma.

I think the players are happy with him because they get an easy ride.

 

[red4ever 79]

Yeah some of our fans are blinded by his status as a player at this club and cannot seperate that from him being a manager

I dont get it at all. Former great as a player, will always have a special place in our hearts, but not competent enough. Poor

Yeah some of our fans are blinded by his status as a player at this club and cannot seperate that from him being a manager

A poster celebrating if we win our game in hand we will only be 6 points off top. He doesnt realize we have only played 7 games and are already 9 points off top. What a mediocre fanbase accepting this crap

 

[OrcaFat]

I don’t agree with comments suggesting the squad is good and the manager is bad.

There’s no point saying the players are better than how they are playing because the facts don’t bear it out. I’ve never said Ole is a great manager but you have to look across a whole season and ask yourself if the squad is better than the 3rd best in the league? The answer is no and it isn’t any more complicated than that.

 

[Greck]

His fan boys were sarcastic about any united supporter criticizing the 15th position in the table as we had a game in hand. Now even if we win this match we would be 13th. Nice.

The league position is nothing to scoff at. We cant be looking at progress and have a 3rd consecutive season where we fall far out of top 4 in December. Don't want to have to rely on another late season resurgence. Those are great to watch but it's not progress to keep being in this position in the first place. Also reinforces the trend of collapsing when there's any semblance of expectation and only being consistent when there's nothing to play for

 

[dove]

Disagree. Not this time. You really think the Glazers would like losing champions league revenue along with the money lost due to the coronavirus pandemic. Also Pochettino is available for free and Ole would be relatively cheap to sack.

I think Ole being a very liked ex player complicates things a bit. If we finished the season like 6-7th there is a slight chance that even hardcore fanboys would realise he is not good enough. If we sack him in let's say December, I think there would be a big backlash from Ole fanboys. I am sure the club would want to avoid that as much as possible. Unfortunately I don't see him going until the end of the season and I fear that we might stick with him even if we finish outside of TOP 4 because he is the perfect shield for our board - likeable ex player who will never complain about the transfers and is just basically happy to be here. Perfect.

 

[Rajma]

I think Ole being a very liked ex player complicates things a bit. If we finished the season like 6-7th there is a slight chance that even hardcore fanboys would realise he is not good enough. If we sack him in let's say December, I think there would be a big backlash from Ole fanboys. I am sure the club would want to avoid that as much as possible. Unfortunately I don't see him going until the end of the season and I fear that we might stick with him even if we finish outside of TOP 4 because he is the perfect shield for our board - likeable ex player who will never complain about the transfers and is just basically happy to be here. Perfect.

I think you’re overstating the amount of Ole fan boys are out there. I tend to believe most fans are reasonable and can clearly see it that he’s totally out of his death. The deluded ones are loud but they’re in the minority, fortunately. Should we lose to Everton, where do we go from there? I think sacking is written on the wall If our league form doesn’t take a sharp upturn.

 

[Infra-red]

Realistically, he's not going to still be in charge this time next year. The question is, when does he go. The club need to make damn sure that they have their preferred replacement lined up.

 

[Zaphod2319]

Disagree. Not this time. You really think the Glazers would like losing champions league revenue along with the money lost due to the coronavirus pandemic. Also Pochettino is available for free and Ole would be relatively cheap to sack.

Having watched the Glazers run the Tampa Bay Bucs.... it is all about the bottom line. If Tampa was in dead last and still selling merchandise and selling seats, nothing was invested. They have no care for tradition or club standing, only profit. If they squeeze a profit out of a losing team, that is what they will do.

 

[bsCallout]

It sounds as bad as it looks. We are 15th. Have been spanked 6-1 already. Should have been spanked by 5 against Brighton. A team packed full of CM's without addressing the number 1 issue in the summer and actually signing a winger. A manager who is so far out of his depth he makes Boris look like a good PM. On course for our worst ever start to a Premier league season, after the last worst start which was also with Ole in charge.

Yeah some of our fans are blinded by his status as a player at this club and cannot seperate that from him being a manager

Except youre completely missing the fact that I'm Ole out.

It doesnt make the comment I responded to any less ridiculous.

If we win our game in hand we are 6 points off top, not 9. Saying we are 9 is being dramatic for the sake of trying to be right. As does saying 'on course for'. That is being dramatic when it cant be disproven or proven yet.

Your arguement is questionable if you have to substantiate your points by being dramatic and using worst case scenarios that havent happened.

We can make up 6 points, with performances like against PSG and Leipzig. The season is there to be won with a squad that should be more consistent than it is. Which the manager should have achieved by now.

Ole can't seem to get this team to be consistent in any regard and he's been given long enough to achieve that. So he should be moved on for someone else to try.

So it's nothing to do with being blinded.

 

[bsCallout]

I find it bizarre that this kind of point is hardly ever mentioned about Ole. The man is completely uninspiring and has no charisma.

I think the players are happy with him because they get an easy ride.

I hate Klopp but his team play with the same manic attitude he possesses.

 

[croadyman]

Except youre completely missing the fact that I'm Ole out.

It doesnt make the comment I responded to any less ridiculous.

If we win our game in hand we are 6 points off top, not 9. Saying we are 9 is being dramatic for the sake of trying to be right. As does saying 'on course for'. That is being dramatic when it cant be disproven or proven yet.

Your arguement is questionable if you have to substantiate your points by being dramatic and using worst case scenarios that havent happened.

We can make up 6 points, with performances like against PSG and Leipzig. The season is there to be won with a squad that should be more consistent than it is. Which the manager should have achieved by now.

Ole can't seem to get this team to be consistent in any regard and he's been given long enough to achieve that. So he should be moved on for someone else to try.

So it's nothing to do with being blinded.

Ah I can see where you are coming from now but despite it being right to move him on,this probably won't happen until we cannot make top 4 and out of all competitions as well

 

[Amir]

Yeah some of our fans are blinded by his status as a player at this club and cannot seperate that from him being a manager

I don't think it's his history with us as a player. I think it's more the trauma from the likes of LVG and Mourinho, who came and tried to do things their own way - which is very different to what we were used to. Solskjaer is doing things that resemble Fergie more, so people want to hang on to that.

Unfortunately, doing things like Ferguson is useless if you don't have the entire set of Sir Alex's capabilities.

 

[Amir]

There’s no point saying the players are better than how they are playing because the facts don’t bear it out. I’ve never said Ole is a great manager but you have to look across a whole season and ask yourself if the squad is better than the 3rd best in the league? The answer is no and it isn’t any more complicated than that.

It's not about whether the squad is good enough for 1st, 3rd to 5th. It's whether we get the most out of it. We're not.

 

[remo]

I find it bizarre that this kind of point is hardly ever mentioned about Ole. The man is completely uninspiring and has no charisma.

I think the players are happy with him because they get an easy ride.

This. I find it a little dull that he simply sits and stares at his iPad. I have a feeling that sometimes players need a little emotion, scream, kick, whatever...... and the only thing there is a manager sitting there motionless.

 

[Random Task]

Disagree. Not this time. You really think the Glazers would like losing champions league revenue along with the money lost due to the coronavirus pandemic. Also Pochettino is available for free and Ole would be relatively cheap to sack.

Poch was available before the turn of the year when results and performances were equally as bad as this season, yet the board chose not to act.

I'm fairly certain they will continue with Ole until CL qualification is beyond reach or as good as.

That's just my opinion, of course. It's not like I'm clued in or anything.

 

[Frank Grimes]

To assess Solskjaer's tenure objectively you should look at his points per game record since the start of last season( after he started signing players). Since then we have picked up 73 points from a possible 132. That's leaving 45% of points on the table. We should be at least close to picking up 2 points out of 3 but he is nowhere near this. The longer he stays we are only delaying the inevitable imo.

I personally would get Pochettino in while he is still available. I'm confident he would do better with this group of players.

 

[Judas]

Poch was available before the turn of the year when results and performances were equally as bad as this season, yet the board chose not to act.

I'm fairly certain they will continue with Ole until CL qualification is beyond reach or as good as.

That's just my opinion, of course. It's not like I'm clued in or anything.

Only reason I disagree with you is if its a year on, with a better squad, and he's showing the exact same inconsistencies and flaws in the league, I'd think action would be taken if it looks like we're going nowhere quick, say before christmas perhaps.

But his CL form might be his saving grace this time, because we should be getting out of that group now, probably even winning it.

 

[McGrathsipan]

Look at the league table and were United are and the fact there are no indications it will get better any time soon.

Lads we are in real trouble. There are too many teams getting well ahead of us now.

 

[croadyman]

Look at the league table and were United are and the fact there are no indications it will get better any time soon.

Lads we are in real trouble. There are too many teams getting well ahead of us now.

Yeah but as the poster above has said the champions league form will save him from the sack

 

[RedSky]

Look at the league table and were United are and the fact there are no indications it will get better any time soon.

Martial will be back, that's the key to our Premier League form. Having him and Rashford starting.

 

[McGrathsipan]

Yeah but as the poster above has said the champions league form will save him from the sack

Losing again this weekend will focus the mind of Woody.

 

[Bastian]

I don’t agree with comments suggesting the squad is good and the manager is bad.

There’s no point saying the players are better than how they are playing because the facts don’t bear it out. I’ve never said Ole is a great manager but you have to look across a whole season and ask yourself if the squad is better than the 3rd best in the league? The answer is no and it isn’t any more complicated than that.

The strongest defense of Ole is that "we are progressing", future contingency. It's impossible to argue against, as it's based on subjectivity, by and large. To believe that he's doing any of the things the club has briefed (cultural reset, rebuild, going back to the United DNA, etc.) you have to be persuaded by the last two years in that they present a convincing narrative.

I don't doubt many who back Ole are doing so more out of hope than logical conclusion (which isn't to say it can't be logically concluded). I also think many who want him out aren't really sure about how to proceed, some wanting just about anyone else, and some desperately wanting Poch. We're in November and rushing to a managerial change is never wise (for a club in our situation). First the club needs to review their footballing operations; decisions and processes, figure out what kind of a manager they want, and then prepare the work.

Though I don't think Ole is the man for the job I still don't think changing managers now makes much sense. Worst case scenario - if Ole is given the season - is we won't qualify for the CL. Worst case scenario of changing manager now would be not getting the right manager because it's rushed, keeping everything else as it is, and going back to this problem in 2-3 years again.

The more pressure that builds on Ole, the more pressure should be building on the board to hire competent people to oversee footballing matters before any significant decisions are made.

 

[croadyman]

Martial will be back, that's the key to our Premier League form. Having him and Rashford starting.

Should have kept his hands down in that Spurs game, yes it may have been a soft red card but afraid to say raising your hands when there is VAR in place is just asking for the ref to make a decision

 

[McGrathsipan]

Martial will be back, that's the key to our Premier League form. Having him and Rashford starting.

Oh feck my life Martial is the laziest player of the lot. I really hope youre joking

 

[RedSky]

Oh feck my life Martial is the laziest player of the lot. I really hope youre joking

When one of Rashford or Martial doesn't start our win rate goes down to 35% and our goal per game drops from 2.1 to 1.0. It was pretty obvious last season this was a problem and we hoped Greenwood would fix it, but that hasn't happened and Cavani is still nowhere near match sharp. Fact is that if one of Rashford or Martial doesn't start we're very easy to defend against and we shoot less.

It's the usual shit i'm afraid, we go into the Summer desperately needing a forward to help spread out the goals in the team and yet we end up with a 30 year old. This was clear when Lukaku left and yet again clear this summer and the board rather than spending big, go for the short term, budget option. Simply not good enough.