Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

[romufc]

Hes just not very smart. The captitulation versus Tottenham where he didn't react to the Martial sending off and today are prime examples of his lack of experience and quality. Had Fred been sent off earlier, we'd have been thrashed in the same manner. Ole was given two lives last night and he wasted it. Moments like these don't inspire me with confidence.

Have you checked his IQ then?

If you want to talk about being smart, go re-watch the Spurs game and have a look at the goals, 5 of them were individual errors from experienced players. Its his fault that?

If you want to play this game, had Martial scores either of his chances, we go 2-1 up, he takes Fred of brings on Matic and we have a chance of getting the win/draw.

 

[Volumiza]

I am actually more towards Ole out than in but I still want him to do well and try win things with us. Even though I am Ole out, I cannot blame him for everything. I do get frustrated like V Istanbul and Arsenal as well as Fred yesterday but the result and performance yesterday was not something I would say should cost him his job

Yeah, I'm pretty much on the same page mate especially regarding the bolded bit. Regardless of your default position, it should never be so entrenched that an upturn in results or positive change can't change your view.

 

[Skåre Willoch]

PSG and Leipzig are not top teir teams - far from it. Neither are we to be fair but this was an even levelled group. Regardless, with our resources, we should be going through. But then again, many have 0 standards these days.

"0 Standards". Give me a fecking break.

PSG played in the CL final less than 4 months ago. They have one of the absolute best squads in world football, with two of the very best players of their generation in Neymar and Mbappé.
Leipzig have totally shaken up the power balance Bundesliga and played in the semi finals of the Champions League less than 4 months ago, with one of the best young managers in world football, and some great talents in almost every position. Us fans are even talking about breaking the bank for one of their players, for crying out loud.

Your standards is the fecking problem.

 

[big rons sovereign]

Have you checked his IQ then?

If you want to talk about being smart, go re-watch the Spurs game and have a look at the goals, 5 of them were individual errors from experienced players. Its his fault that?

If you want to play this game, had Martial scores either of his chances, we go 2-1 up, he takes Fred of brings on Matic and we have a chance of getting the win/draw.

Just bangin yer head against a wall mate. We fought and lost, on another day we'd have twatted them. I'm relatively confident we'll take something from Germany.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

"0 Standards". Give me a fecking break.

PSG played in the CL final less than 4 months ago. They have one of the absolute best squads in world football, with two of the very best players of their generation in Neymar and Mbappé.
Leipzig have totally shaken up the power balance Bundesliga and played in the semi finals of the Champions League less than 4 months ago, with one of the best young managers in world football, and some great talents in almost every position. Us fans are even talking about breaking the bank for one of their players, for crying out loud.

Your standards is the fecking problem.

2020 has been a very weird year for sports. If you think that PSG and Leipzig are top tier teams, then thats on you not me. PSG required a winner from a former Stoke nobody to beat new comers Atalanta last year... yes what a great team. Don't get me wrong, theyre good teams but nothing special in the slightest.

 

[simplyared]

What gets me the most is the fact we have a strong squad and with that in mind should be a lot more convincing than we have been so far. Just take a look at our bench last night. Pogba, VDB, Greenwood to name a few. Ole fecked up last night big time no doubt imo! That defeat will cost us! A point would have sealed it but now we're going to have to field our strongest team to get a result in Leipzig. Considering the tight schedule the negative effects of that are massive. On a different note we've already spoke about his non use of VDB, but what about Greenwood and Pogba. Both players difficult to handle, maybe, but in terms of raw talent players with the credentials to play key roles for us and they are both getting minimal playing time. No doubt our manager and coaching staff lack the necessary qualities to be in charge of this group of players.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

Have you checked his IQ then?

If you want to talk about being smart, go re-watch the Spurs game and have a look at the goals, 5 of them were individual errors from experienced players. Its his fault that?

If you want to play this game, had Martial scores either of his chances, we go 2-1 up, he takes Fred of brings on Matic and we have a chance of getting the win/draw.

Sorry I forgot Ole can do no wrong. Yesterday he displayed everything you need to know about his managerial know how. There was no reason for Fred to stay on the pitch after half time. We didn't need a win. We needed PSG to make mistakes. Instead we gifted them the game.

 

[GBBQ]

The break away goal was not due to Ole. So you think Ole will say to not keep the shape. If we regularly conceded such stupid goals then yes Ole has to take the blame but that was a one off goal due to players' naivety. Even Leipzig yesterday could have drawn or lost to them but thanks to Istanbul's keeper they got the win. Shit happens.

Was Ole not at pitch side, could he not see the shape was wrong and shout to the team (like most managers would do)?

Were the players playing to a set formation where that gap was left on purpose, or worse still did they not have any coaching on how to set up in these situations and the gap was there because players just did what they wanted?

 

[DOTA]

Think we've got another eight games to go this month, including ones that decide whether we make it to the knockout stages of the Champions League and the semi-final of the League Cup.

Hopefully Ole's still in charge in January, cause if he is things are probably looking much better.

 

[AshRK]

Was Ole not at pitch side, could he not see the shape was wrong and shout to the team (like most managers would do)?

Were the players playing to a set formation where that gap was left on purpose, or worse still did they not have any coaching on how to set up in these situations and the gap was there because players just did what they wanted?

But that's what I said, it was a one off goal. If we regularly conceded such goals then your point would have made sense. That goal came from our own corner because of our players' naivety , especially Matic's. Every team concedes stupid and silly goals but you don't see manager getting the blame for individual's mistake. Matic is a senior pro and should have done better, instead he was just sleeping. If you want manager to every time wake our players up then sorry we are never going to be a top club. If you want the managers to do the basics for our players then that can never happen even if we have Sir Alex back managing.

I can blame Ole for his game management like making poor subs or not making subs but I cannot blame Ole for individual mistakes of one player. Martial missed the chance and he has to take blame, Fred was stupid to put his head on Parades. One cannot blame manager for such thing. Not taking Fred off in the half can be put on Ole but then we did dominated the game till they scored the goal so it wasn't like Fred came on in second half and was red carded. We had some golden chances and in such big games you don't get such easy chances so you have to take them and we did not. We were unlucky and naïve yesterday.

 

[Rightnr]

Another thing that I have not seen mentioned much. That third goal ensured we cannot win the group if PSG win.

I know our way is to attack but given we were a man down, we should have kept it tight. I am not sure if it's naivety or incompetence but even if we qualify now, we might end up playing a much tougher opponent

 

[big rons sovereign]

Sorry I forgot Ole can do no wrong. Yesterday he displayed everything you need to know about his managerial know how. There was no reason for Fred to stay on the pitch after half time. We didn't need a win. We needed PSG to make mistakes. Instead we gifted them the game.

Ok, so we take Fred off at half time and replace him with matic. We then get completely overrun as matic doesn't have the legs to cope with their pace. You'd be here shouting sack ole.
Or replace him with Donny, we get completely overrun because he's more forward minded player and we're left open in midfield.
You'd be here shouting sack ole.
Fred was doing well, when they scored we'd been on top for some time.
Ole took a risk and it backfired, it happens.

 

[Skåre Willoch]

2020 has been a very weird year for sports. If you think that PSG and Leipzig are top tier teams, then thats on you not me. PSG required a winner from a former Stoke nobody to beat new comers Atalanta last year... yes what a great team. Don't get me wrong, theyre good teams but nothing special in the slightest.

That same Stoke nobody is now playing for Bayern München. You know, the team that beat his former club, PSG, in the Champions League final three and a half month ago. Are they considered a top tier team?
Which teams are top tier in your opinion, if not a CL finalist and a CL semi finalist? PSG haven't even lost a home game in the CL group stage in 16 years until they faced us this season. Talking about "3rd most expensive team in the world" when talking about us, but casually leaving that bit out when talking about PSG. *EDIT: sorry, this wasn't you.

If CL finals/semis, winning leagues and cups, breaking the usual domination of historical mastodonts, having great young talents in every position, having the most sought after young manager in the world, "trophies or bust" mentality, breaking world record transfer fees for Ballon d'Or contenders, golden boys, etc, is not enough to be considered top tier teams, that's on you, not me.

"With our resources we should be going through". Fair enough, I guess. If it wasn't for the fact that PSG have literally unlimited funds. And Leipzig are the most hated team in Germany, largely because of their financial power and "plastic foundation". They have some resources themselves, really, and the exact same argument could be used regarding both clubs.

"0 standards". Get the feck out. If anything, you're the one with 0 standards, as your "standards" are as unrealistic as any.

 

[AshRK]

Another thing that I have not seen mentioned much. That third goal ensured we cannot win the group if PSG win.

I know our way is to attack but given we were a man down, we should have kept it tight. I am not sure if it's naivety or incompetence but even if we qualify now, we might end up playing a much tougher opponent

Yes that frustrated me the most. Lack of game management will probably cost us big time.

 

[b82REZ]

Ole took a risk and it backfired, it happens.

So he deserves the criticism.

 

[Volumiza]

I'm not 100% Ole in or Ole out but I have to say that after last night there are some Ole Outters making a real show of themselves, not just in this thread but everywhere. Some embarassing posts across the United Forum today.

 

[McTerminator]

Ole needs to be fired yesterday not cuz of loss against Paris but simply cuz like it or not he is a PE teacher for this level. Doubt any PL team would want him.
Its almost as if a certain manager is right about our 'football heritage' if we continue to stick with a PE teacher instead of a real manager. Its a joke.

@Raoul @Damien surely this post counts as wumming?

Bad luck!

You easily had enough chances and played well enough to draw if not win that. I think it's very easy with hindsight and quite harsh to say everyone knew Fred should have come off at half time, I'm sure if he had and you'd lost then Ole would have taken a hammering for that as well. Cavani and Martial both came very close and on another night you'd be walking away with the right result. I thought you looked the better team for a lot of the game especially the second half upto the sending off and even after that you played some quick attacking football. To be fair Fred should have been given a straight red in the first half and certainly should not have got a yellow for that tackle in the second, but that's football.

If I were to criticise Ole, I think the only fair thing to get him on was not trying to contain the game a bit earlier, instead I think you had the mindset to keep pushing for that second goal, once you conceded and went down to 10 men at pretty much the same time, that chance was lost and he had to gamble hence Pogba, VdB, Greenwood and Ighalo. Maybe Matic could have come on for Fred at the hour mark to manage the game a bit better, but again hindsight makes decisions like this very easy!

Excellent and balanced post as ever.

When can we start nominating people for the caf awards?

 

[Andycoleno9]

@Raoul @Damien surely this post counts as wumming?


Excellent and balanced post as ever.

When can we start nominating people for the caf awards?

If that is wumming then half of posters in this thread would be banned

 

[McTerminator]

Isn't martial 25? Rashford hasn't really kicked on and with the amount of injuries he plays through because of ole constantly selecting him, I can see his career being very short.

terrible post.

I’ll bet you were Mourinho in too. Yet we all know Mourinho has his players continue through injury (did he mismanage John Terry?)

On the other hand you can almost picture Ole asking players if they feel up to a game, not like he flings them onto the pitch without their consent and without medical advice... get a grip.

Some of the sticks being used to beat Ole with today, because we lost a closely contested game against a team that only a couple of years ago were completely out of our league, are really showing our fan base up... if you don’t want to be compared to RAWK and AFTV then take a breath and make your point without trying to push an agenda. If your point is valid on its own merit then your agenda will benefit anyway.

I thought Ole should have taken Fred off at half time, but he made a decision which ultimately came back to bite him. However, his gamble nearly paid off. If Cavani or Martial score one of their chances to bag the second Ole may very well have taken him off and consolidated.

lastly, for those of you saying he should have shut up shop at half time. We were bitten so many times doing that under LVG and Mourinho many times. I see your point but we have seen in the past that there are no guarantees, especially against a good side.

 

[Andycoleno9]

Ok, so we take Fred off at half time and replace him with matic. We then get completely overrun as matic doesn't have the legs to cope with their pace. You'd be here shouting sack ole.
Or replace him with Donny, we get completely overrun because he's more forward minded player and we're left open in midfield.
You'd be here shouting sack ole.
Fred was doing well, when they scored we'd been on top for some time.
Ole took a risk and it backfired, it happens.

Tell me something and be honest. Which midfield you find stronger?
Danilo-Veratti- Paredes or Fred-Pogba, Donny-Bruno?
Good manager would use our midfield better and dominate PSG. Not play with two dmc and choose to win midfield battle with fight instead with creativity.

Nevertheless, i can't say and i am not saying that Ole got it wrong with formation because game was even but how is it hard to understand; Fred's yellow yesterday wasn't just a normal yellow card like it happens in games. Anybody who watched the game saw that Fred finished 1st half with lets say 1.90 yellow cards. It was obvious to anybody that any slight foul will send him off.
It was not a risk. Risk would be if he had yellow card for some tackle and that is it. Play on. But this yesterday was completely bad decision making by the manager.

 

[Wilt]

To be against a manger from the second he signed is pretty stupid though isn't it? He's a proper legend and did amazingly well when he dropped in to rescue us post Jose.

Not really, love Ole the player and there’s no denying he initially had a great run of results though laced with players bounce and in some games unbelievable luck, starting from the day Ole probably couldn’t believe his own luck when initially got the call. However, take away the bounce and luck element and what are we left with? ....an inconsistent manager and team.

As much as I’d like to see it, I can never imagine Ole lifting the CL or PL trophy, which is what a club the size and status of Manchester United should be all about.

 

[Volumiza]

However, take away the bounce and luck element and what are we left with?

Ok, my eyes tell me we're left with the best squad we've had post SAF. Yes we're inconsistent and that's why I can't be fully Ole in, I think at some point that inconsistency has to be ironed out but I also have seen some great performances so nor can I be fully Ole out.

What I'm trying to say is, it's just not all bad. Some of it is good.

 

[romufc]

Sorry I forgot Ole can do no wrong. Yesterday he displayed everything you need to know about his managerial know how. There was no reason for Fred to stay on the pitch after half time. We didn't need a win. We needed PSG to make mistakes. Instead we gifted them the game.

Is this your go to? Go look at my posts when I have said his decisions against Istanbul and Arsenal were poor, I am ole out but not with a blindfold like you seem to be.

What did he display? that he can go toe to toe with the CL finalist?

GIfted them the game? We were 2-1 down before Fred got sent off.

 

[javanmard]

As a Liverpool fan I would love United to sack OGS because I think he is learning very fast. Just look at your squad before and after his tenure. Definitely he is not the best coach in PL but your club trusted him and gave him two years time (till now) and whoever you sign ad the replacement needs at least one or two years to adopt. So stick with what you have and support your very own manager because the grass is not always greener on the other side.

 

[VP89]

Tell me something and be honest. Which midfield you find stronger?
Danilo-Veratti- Paredes or Fred-Pogba, Donny-Bruno?
Good manager would use our midfield better and dominate PSG. Not play with two dmc and choose to win midfield battle with fight instead with creativity.

Nevertheless, i can't say and i am not saying that Ole got it wrong with formation because game was even but how is it hard to understand; Fred's yellow yesterday wasn't just a normal yellow card like it happens in games. Anybody who watched the game saw that Fred finished 1st half with lets say 1.90 yellow cards. It was obvious to anybody that any slight foul will send him off.
It was not a risk. Risk would be if he had yellow card for some tackle and that is it. Play on. But this yesterday was completely bad decision making by the manager.

It's suicide to go out with your suggested midfield and not give two extremely slow center backs added protection against Neymar and Mbappe. I think we created more clear cut chances versus them, and I'm more than pleased with the performance. Donny's ankle also looked pretty bad, whose to say he couldn't play a full 90.

 

[Mainoldo]

Tell me something and be honest. Which midfield you find stronger?
Danilo-Veratti- Paredes or Fred-Pogba, Donny-Bruno?
Good manager would use our midfield better and dominate PSG. Not play with two dmc and choose to win midfield battle with fight instead with creativity.

Nevertheless, i can't say and i am not saying that Ole got it wrong with formation because game was even but how is it hard to understand; Fred's yellow yesterday wasn't just a normal yellow card like it happens in games. Anybody who watched the game saw that Fred finished 1st half with lets say 1.90 yellow cards. It was obvious to anybody that any slight foul will send him off.
It was not a risk. Risk would be if he had yellow card for some tackle and that is it. Play on. But this yesterday was completely bad decision making by the manager.

This all comes down to the manager. The players don’t know there roles. Sorry there not effective enough in their roles for this to ever be used against a top side. It is however a top midfield.

Can you imagine Zidane sitting bench because the midfield balance would be missed up compared to playing Guti and Makelele.

 

[Wilt]

Ok, my eyes tell me we're left with the best squad we've had post SAF. Yes we're inconsistent and that's why I can't be fully Ole in, I think at some point that inconsistency has to be ironed out but I also have seen some great performances so nor can I be fully Ole out.

What I'm trying to say is, it's just not all bad. Some of it is good.

I think we’re on the same page, we just want the best for the club

 

[r0663664]

Have you checked his IQ then?

If you want to talk about being smart, go re-watch the Spurs game and have a look at the goals, 5 of them were individual errors from experienced players. Its his fault that?

If you want to play this game, had Martial scores either of his chances, we go 2-1 up, he takes Fred of brings on Matic and we have a chance of getting the win/draw.

Everything boil down to the manager. You lost 5 game or 10 games or draw 5 games. Manager needs to sort this out during training and give players to perform. Ole is paid to do a job, he needs to get the best out of his squad. Anyway, I am still Ole out. Of course I want him to be successfully but after 2 years, I still see the same old shit. How many transfers window does he needs to buy a right winger and a striker? Why does he buy VDB if he doesn't want to play him? That's money could have gotten us a decent striker. Utd should always have 2 dynamic wingers on each flank. That's how we win championship.

 

[romufc]

This all comes down to the manager. The players don’t know there roles. Sorry there not effective enough in their roles for this to ever be used against a top side. It is however a top midfield.

Can you imagine Zidane sitting bench because the midfield balance would be missed up compared to playing Guti and Makelele.

Actually, you are wrong. PSG are the best example of this.

A few seasons ago, PSG used to go with an attacking line up and kept getting knocked out of the CL.

Last season, in the CL they took a pragmatic approach, defensive solidarity and got to the final.

Coincidence much?

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Yeah, have been reading @VP89 's posts since morning and it seems that he's gone from one end of the spectrum to the correct end of the spectrum.

And honestly, I agree with him with what he's posted today

Kin ell

“correct end”. You nutters.

 

[romufc]

Everything boil down to the manager. You lost 5 game or 10 games or draw 5 games. Manager needs to sort this out during training and give players to perform. Ole is paid to do a job, he needs to get the best out of his squad. Anyway, I am still Ole out. Of course I want him to be successfully but after 2 years, I still see the same old shit. How many transfers window does he needs to buy a right winger and a striker? Why does he buy VDB if he doesn't want to play him? That's money could have gotten us a decent striker. Utd should always have 2 dynamic wingers on each flank. That's how we win championship.

I agree it all boils down to the manager. its been 2 years and its same old shit?

We played PSG 2 years ago and we relied on luck to get through, handing on defensively, no real subs to bring on.

2 years on, we are taking PSG on after they've reached a CL final. Same old shit... ok.

Now, the ST and RW, Ole wanted Halaand and Sancho, If I am not wrong, one is a ST and one is a RW.

Ole wants a RW, signing of Cavani also shows he wanted a ST, so I am bemused how you are pointing the fingers at Ole for not bringing the players in.

VDB played 90 mins v Istanbul, 90 mins V Southampton where he got a knock on his ankle, but he doesnt want to play him. Okay then

 

[anant]

Kin ell

“correct end”. You nutters.

What's wrong with that?

 

[Grande]

By closing the game, you manage possession and control the game. A big part of this is keeping 11 men on the pitch especially when the stakes are high whereby we only needed a point to qualify. You see, before the red card, I agree, PSG were on the back foot. We should have taken off Fred at half time because he was on a hype. 11 vs 11 and 2 1 down, I would of been more comfortable in coming back. Even before they scored, they were always going to be a threat on the counter and I feel we needed Matic to come on and calm things down. Secondly, nothing was working for Martial last night, he should have been subbed off before the 80th minute and why Cavani came off when we changed our tactics to hoofing the ball at the top, absolutely confuses me.

I dont underestimate Tuchel or PSG. Apart from the 8-2 thumping of Barca (who have been inconsistent for a while now), PSG have been average. There league too is average and week in and week out are barely challenged. I think you grossly overestimate the Parisians. As I said, two world class forwards and a load of average players.

I think that after 2 years, if you cannot make a judgement on ceiling, your mind is very much at the point of averageness. Of course I want Ole to succeed. Despite being Ole out for some time, every week I hope that this is the week Ole can turn it around. I just do not see how we get from the current level we are at to something that is consistent and pleasant to watch. There is no identity in the way we play. There really is no use in batting to and from on opinions. You will always want to give him another two years, I think his time is up. Stupid mistakes every couple of weeks if really the nail in the coffin for me. I can understand a mistake here and there, but his mistakes are consistent. He has been with many of these players for 2 years and 1 year, they look lost. They really look like 11 mates from a pub trying to score and win a game. 3 defeats in 10 games so far this season in the league really demonstrates that, if we extrapolate, we are on course for 67 points at the moment. We need to be pushing to 75 and 80 to get back into the champions league. We dont score many, still concede too many and our goal difference is zero after 9 games. Game management is terrible from him, same situation as last night, the europa league semi final, fa cup semi final, first leg of league cup semi final, last 3 games of the premier league last season and much of the first half the season last year.

PSG Champions League last season and this:

Real Madrid 2-2, 3-1
Galatasaray 5-0, 1-0
Brügge 1-0, 5-0
Borussia Dortmund 3-2 (1-2, 2-0)
Atalanta 2-1
RB Leipzig 3-0
Bayern München 0-1
RB Leipzig 1-2, 1-0
Basaksehir 2-0
Man Utd 1-2, 3-1

I think you have no concept of what average really means.

 

[keithsingleton]

Ole took a risk and it backfired, it happens.

How many times has that happened during his tender?? You make it sound like its his first mistake, simple not good enough, end of.

 

[devilish]

You would be surprised what people say on here.

I understand he was not anyone's choice to take over the role, who is to blame for giving him the job though? If you were a player and got the chance to play at Manutd, would you turn it down thinking you are not good enough for them?

No, the reason you become a footballer is because you have belief in your ability to make it to the top. he got the job, has struggled to really take us far but you cannot blame him, he is learning on the job because the people above him have failed to get the right men like you said.

If you ask me the United's job is becoming the holy grail of management only to turn up to be one hell of a poisoned chalice. Its built around the remnants of a football style long gone, where managers were at the top of the football pyramid, taking the shots with little to no oversight whatsoever. That excites many managers who are intrigued to see what they can do with no one standing in their way.

Unfortunately, football has moved along since then. Managers lack the skill to do everything on their own as Sir Alex's generation used to do. They have been raised in a football world were the likes of DOFs and head of recruitment people had taken key parts of the traditional manager's role for themselves which then allows the manager to focus on the few areas that are still within his domain. Therefore many managers (including experienced guys like LVG and Mou) are taking the job only to find out that there are key aspects in the job were they are incredibly inexperienced in it.

Sir Alex knew that from day 1. He did nothing to modernise our system as he was too old and too set in his way to have to be accountable to some snooty DOF (let's face it, everyone is inexperienced compared to Sir Alex). However he did begged Moyes not to sack his people. That's because his system, while imperfect, had people in it who could have helped the manager bridge the lack of knowledge he would need to succeed.

I find myself disagreeing with everyone this days. Ole ins say that nothing will change if we replace Ole with someone better. I think that's stupid. Meanwhile I find it hard to believe that Ole is the only reason why we're struggling. Ole deserves criticism but the same can be said about the board who keep messing up (overpaying players, failing to attract the players we need and get rid of the dead wood). After all, if Ole is a failure then he's yet another of Woodward's many many mistakes

So I think that both Ole and the man who brought him here (and LVG and Mou and gave Jones a long term contract, and gave Sanchez a ridiculous salary) should be kicked out.

 

[Foxbatt]

I am gutted we lost but the blame for the Martial miss could not be put on Ole. Neither would I the Fred red. I would have taken him off but I do understand why he kept Fred on
My issue is with his selection and I said this even before the match.
This was a match we need to draw and our strength has been to counter attack and use our pace. We can let them cross the ball all day as our defense is good enough to hear that away
What we don't need is having them run thru the middle.
We should have played 4 midfield players and two up front and narrow up front.

 

[RkkMan]

Ok, so we take Fred off at half time and replace him with matic. We then get completely overrun as matic doesn't have the legs to cope with their pace. You'd be here shouting sack ole.
Or replace him with Donny, we get completely overrun because he's more forward minded player and we're left open in midfield.
You'd be here shouting sack ole.
Fred was doing well, when they scored we'd been on top for some time.
Ole took a risk and it backfired, it happens.

Isn`t it better to still take Fred off in a game where he was not just very lucky not to get a straight red but one where PSG were clearly targeting him because he`s a naturally passionate player playing on edge in a position that draws a lot of fouls? The other midfielders offer different frameworks but we stand a better chance getting a result with 10 men than 11 and if you still lose at least you have Fred available for Leipzig. He didn`t take a risk Ole took a NEEDLESS risk which he could have easily avoided on top of refusing to make any other sub in general to change the dynamics of the game like PSG did which won them the game

 

[Tony247]

Should have packed the midfield and play lone striker up front. Starting with 3 forwards was wrong. I hope he learns and employ right combination against RBL.

 

[romufc]

If you ask me the United's job is becoming the holy grail of management only to turn up to be one hell of a poisoned chalice. Its built around the remnants of a football style long gone, where managers were at the top of the football pyramid, taking the shots with little to no oversight whatsoever. That excites many managers who are intrigued to see what they can do with no one standing in their way.

Unfortunately, football has moved along since then. Managers lack the skill to do everything on their own as Sir Alex's generation used to do. They have been raised in a football world were the likes of DOFs and head of recruitment people had taken key parts of the traditional manager's role for themselves which then allows the manager to focus on the few areas that are still within his domain. Therefore many managers (including experienced guys like LVG and Mou) are taking the job only to find out that there are key aspects in the job were they are incredibly inexperienced in it.

Sir Alex knew that from day 1. He did nothing to modernise our system as he was too old and too set in his way to have to be accountable to some snooty DOF (let's face it, everyone is inexperienced compared to Sir Alex). However he did begged Moyes not to sack his people. That's because his system, while imperfect, had people in it who could have helped the manager bridge the lack of knowledge he would need to succeed.

I find myself disagreeing with everyone this days. Ole ins say that nothing will change if we replace Ole with someone better. I think that's stupid. Meanwhile I find it hard to believe that Ole is the only reason why we're struggling. Ole deserves criticism but the same can be said about the board who keep messing up (overpaying players, failing to attract the players we need and get rid of the dead wood). After all, if Ole is a failure then he's yet another of Woodward's many many mistakes

So I think that both Ole and the man who brought him here (and LVG and Mou and gave Jones a long term contract, and gave Sanchez a ridiculous salary) should be kicked out.

Agreed.

This is bigger than Ole, we have done nothing to modernise the club and how it operates. We keep trying to build it how Fergie did, that was one off.

You wont get a manager like that anymore, football fans are alot less patient.

We need changes from the top, a DoF who will come in with a philosophy, managers appointed who fit that philosophy, players signed who fit it too.

Instead we react, oh results are bad, sack, hire someone, break up the squad, spend money on players based on name.

What is the clubs vision?

 

[Longshanks]

Another thing that I have not seen mentioned much. That third goal ensured we cannot win the group if PSG win.

I know our way is to attack but given we were a man down, we should have kept it tight. I am not sure if it's naivety or incompetence but even if we qualify now, we might end up playing a much tougher opponent

I'm gonna jump in on this point, so you think at 2-1 down going into injury time when an equaliser would guarantee us a spot in the last 16, we should keep it tight just in case PSG score which lessons our chances of qualifying as group leaders? Even though we may potentially not qualify at all?

I suppose if we had kept it tight, then lose in Germany anyway you would be complaining about Ole's naivety in banking on winning the group? And not going for it when we had a sniff against PSG.

The goal is to qualify, qualify first worry about winning the group if you can after qualification is secured. It's a complete nonsense to worry about winning the group before you have actually qualified.

The fred issue is difficult, he was offering alot in midfield and was doing alot of good work, if he bought matic on at half time I think we may of got a bit overun and if he bought pogba on, slim possibility of him doing something special more likely get complety overun in midfield. I suspect he would of Been coming off after PSG scored there second unfortunately he got a second yellow before that could happen.