Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

[Footy van de Geek]

Wait, are people now considering Klopp to be some kind of transfer genius? Don't get me wrong: Klopp is comfortably the best manager in the world. But most of his successful signing are no-brainers or "compromises" that turned out well. I always thought that Salah was the one player he got absolutely spot on

Not saying that he's bad or even mediocre when it comes to transfers, btw.

Funny how no matter who Liverpool sign, he gets value from them 9/10.

Keïta has been their only major "flop" under Klopp, and even then he's had some good games when fit.

Two of Ole's major signings (AWB and Maguire) have proven to be players with clear weaknesses and have a clear limit. Yet some fans rate these signings as huge successes. And he doesn't have a clue what to do with vdB.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

But he's behind Ole PE teacher. Surely that's not good enough?

It isn't. City and Pep were criticised during their bad start. It wasn't as much as us because it rarely happens for City and Pep is one of the best managers . I don't understand why some act like it's a bizzare thing to doubt Ole's abilities. What has he actually done to clear people's doubts that he is good enough?

 

[The Boy]

Why do people still think all Liverpool's bargain buys are down to Klopp? He even had to be convinced to take Salah. Liverpool's scouting is second to none.

Julian Brandt was apparently his first choice, but turned down the transfer as he wanted guaranteed playing time in the build up to the World Cup.

 

[Longshanks]

Let's flip that question on it's head. What would Ole get out of a midfield of Henderson, Wijnaldum and Jones? The midfield that beat Wolves 4-0 and Ajax 1-0.

You can lead a horse to water and all that.

Klopp gets more out of players many would consider worse than ours. Your view is just skewed by how bad we've been, but that's not because of the players.

Are Henderson and wijnaldum worse than our midfielders? I'm not sure there is any evidence to back that up? Jones is a talented young player hard to really judge against any of our players.

Out of our entire team bruno would be the only player to have a chance of getting in liverpool side at the moment.

Its interesting you picked the midfield, klopps got Salah mane firmino/jota all playing in those particular games, yet Ole gets lashed for failing to produce the same when hes had to play a front three of james, rashford and mata at times this season.

We clearly haven't got the squad capable of challenging for a title, but the 'worst coach in league' who is no more than a PE teacher apparently gets torn to shreds because we are 5 points of the top with a game in hand 12 games into the season. I'm not expecting a title charge this season achieving top 4 and closing the gap are the expectations and right now we are on the right path for that.

 

[pocco]

Are Henderson and wijnaldum worse than our midfielders? I'm not sure there is any evidence to back that up? Jones is a talented young player hard to really judge against any of our players.

Out of our entire team bruno would be the only player to have a chance of getting in liverpool side at the moment.

Its interesting you picked the midfield, klopps got Salah mane firmino/jota all playing in those particular games, yet Ole gets lashed for failing to produce the same when hes had to play a front three of james, rashford and mata at times this season.

We clearly haven't got the squad capable of challenging for a title, but the 'worst coach in league' who is no more than a PE teacher apparently gets torn to shreds because we are 5 points of the top with a game in hand 12 games into the season. I'm not expecting a title charge this season achieving top 4 and closing the gap are the expectations and right now we are on the right path for that.

There's a massive grey area, and this is what I'm hinting at, because Klopp makes players perform better as a unit than their individual worth. Look at Henderson and Wijnaldum pre Klopp, nobody would guess they would be 2/3 or a title winning midfield. My point was in reference to the tired argument: "Would any of our players get into the Liverpool team?" and the answer is probably yes. Not only that, but they would play a lot better too.

And with regards to the James, Rashford and Mata argument, how many times have we fielded that attack?

Edison Cavani
Marcus Rashford
Mason Greenwood
Anthony Martial
Daniel James
Juan Mata
Odion Ighalo

That's pretty damn strong if you ask me and has options for all different type of games. There's no way I'm accepting that it isn't. The only reason you feel like it isn't strong is because we play so badly at times, same with the rest of our team. We're not in the rebuild stage anymore, people need to wake up.

Look at our midfield, also.

Bruno
Pogba
Van De Beek
Fred
Matic
McTominay

There's enough there to make a fully functional midfield. We have options that are/were recently coveted by the best teams in Europe. Then we have Fred and McTominay who you will probably point to as being the weak link in that list, but they're actually a part of our best midfield so far. Missing Fred is one argument for why we struggled vs Leipzig. So I can't accept that this is a weak midfield.

 

[JuriM]

We have an easy run of City, Leeds, Leicester and Wolves coming Fun time!

 

[pocco]

Time to sack Pep then surely....

They probably will if things don't get better. They'll then probably hire one of the managers that we should be looking at, and win the league again. Then we'll be asking why we didn't go for them when we had the chance.

But you're being daft really, because Pep has won lots with City and is currently in a lull. He has earnt a bit of grace with City. His situation and Ole's aren't even comparable - the fact you think they are shows how ill-placed your opinion is of Solskjaer.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

But he's behind Ole PE teacher. Surely that's not good enough?

Playing stupid again?

In the past 3 seasons, he won them the title twice. In fact, he's won trophies in 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2018, 2019. Hell even last season he won silverware with City.
Sacking someone with that track record after 10 games would be monumentally stupid, past evidence tells you that in all likelihood this is nothing more than a blip, a short dip in form, but you know this already.

I personally don't think it's time to sack Ole yet either (in may be in Jan), but Pep, get out man.

 

[Dr. StrangeHate]

I don't know who said this but it rings so true:

"United aren't a special club, we just have had two very special managers in our history."

There seems to be no footballing structure/philosophy or any long term vision at the club. We are just looking for that special manager again who runs the club from top to bottom. The unfortunate bit is that anyone close to being those special managers is already at our rivals (Pep and Klopp).

The saddest part is we have the resources to become the ultimate modern club like Chelsea or City:

1) Have an overarching philosophy (e.g. possession, counter-attacking, etc.)
2) The club buys players that fit that policy with minimal input from the manager.
3) Managers are there just to coach them.
4) This way the sack and hire cycle doesn't affect the long term vision.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

I don't know who said this but it rings so true:

"United aren't a special club, we just have had two very special managers in our history."

There seems to be no footballing structure/philosophy or any long term vision at the club. We are just looking for that special manager again who runs the club from top to bottom. The unfortunate bit is that anyone close to being those special managers is already at our rivals (Pep and Klopp).

The saddest part is we have the resources to become the ultimate modern club like Chelsea or City:

1) Have an overarching philosophy (e.g. possession, counter-attacking, etc.)
2) The club buys players that fit that policy with minimal input from the manager.
3) Managers are there just to coach them.
4) This way the sack and hire cycle doesn't affect the long term vision.

It's an interesting take. The club is so dependent on the manager that the moment the second special manager left, everything that was built and the club was known for for many years completely fell apart and that's quite crazy. So we actually had to look for one of the students of that special manager to come in and try and apply the knowledge he has gotten on us. Unless we find another special manager our over dependence on managers will be our downfall.

 

[Longshanks]

You ignored this yesterday but Klopp is working with a Newcastle CM, a Southampton winger, a failed Chelsea winger, a Wolves striker, a Hull City LB & Jordan Henderson.

Klopp though innit, he doesn’t need ready made World Class players, never has.

If Klopp is so good why did he need to sign all those players, why couldn't he do it with the squad he inherited?

Mane,robertson, jota and wijnaldum all showed plenty of quality for there respective clubs they were hardly signed from knowhere, Salah was something of punt but hes always been talented.

Henderson is no more or less than hes always been a hardworking, tireless midfielder who is very dependable and solid on the ball. Perfect for klopps system.

Klopps certainly got the best out of them no doubt but there not a bunch of cloggers the recruitment has been very good.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

Asides from Van Dijk how many of Liverpool players right now did the Caf want before Liverpool signed them? Another question. How many of the Liverpool players (Salah Mane Arnold Robertson) right now did the Caf think would turn into arguably the best or top 3 in their positions

 

[Infra-red]

Asides from Van Dijk how many of Liverpool players right now did the Caf want before Liverpool signed them? Another question. How many of the Liverpool players (Salah Mane Arnold Robertson) right now did the Caf think would turn into arguably the best or top 3 in their positions

I seem to remember Fabinho, Alisson and Keita having followers/advocates around these parts prior to their moves. Salah, Firminho and Mane were the types who got mentioned on people's long transfer shortlists without anyone being really desperate for them. People were begging for Thiago. Liverpool do often seem to buy players who the Caf collectively like.

I don't think anyone was yearning for Wijnaldum, Robertson, Oxlade-Chamberlain or Shaqiri, though.

 

[AC1689]

All we need to know is the simple fact that the board purposely hired a yes-man. He wasn’t hired on merit and experience that much is also clear.

And then you have your answer as to if he will be sacked anytime soon.

 

[AC1689]

But he's behind Ole PE teacher. Surely that's not good enough?

He’s also just got through the UCL group stages with an equalled record points tally by any English club.

There is also a long way to go in the league so table position right now is hardly overly important. We may be fourth, but I think most of us can see that we may not be anywhere near that come the end of the season. Whereas with City I don’t think anyone is doubting that they will be 1st/2nd come the end. That’s the difference.

City are evidently a much better coached team. Your comment, and the rationale behind it, is a little absurd to be honest. Hopefully there was sarcasm involved.

Their current league position is definitely not good enough right now I agree, but nobody expects that to stay as it is. And if it did, he wouldn’t last.

 

[dove]

But he's behind Ole PE teacher. Surely that's not good enough?

Some of you are seriously daft Like that guy who created "We’ll never get out of the group" classic

 

[Nou_Camp99]

Playing stupid again?

In the past 3 seasons, he won them the title twice. In fact, he's won trophies in 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2018, 2019. Hell even last season he won silverware with City.
Sacking someone with that track record after 10 games would be monumentally stupid, past evidence tells you that in all likelihood this is nothing more than a blip, a short dip in form, but you know this already.

I personally don't think it's time to sack Ole yet either (in may be in Jan), but Pep, get out man.

I was clearly being a bit sarcastic with this one tbf. Not even I think he's up with Pep. Fell right for it though didn't you? Jesus wept.

You sound like you're on death row mate. Lighten up ffs

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

I seem to remember Fabinho, Alisson and Keita having followers/advocates around these parts prior to their moves. Salah, Firminho and Mane were the types who got mentioned on people's long transfer shortlists without anyone being really desperate for them. People were begging for Thiago. Liverpool do often seem to buy players who the Caf collectively like.

I don't think anyone was yearning for Wijnaldum, Robertson, Oxlade-Chamberlain or Shaqiri, though.

Cheers. Wasn't around at that time

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

I was clearly being a bit sarcastic with this one tbf. Not even I think he's up with Pep. Fell right for it though didn't you? Jesus wept.

You sound like you're on death row mate. Lighten up ffs

Tbf it's getting hard to tell. There's already a similar post to what you said in another thread

 

[saivet]

Do those tweets feel like a knife in the chest to everyone else too? I predicted we wouldn't sack him no matter what, because of how it reflects on Woodward. But to actually hear it from the club makes me feel sick.

They better be prepared to spend hundreds of millions on this team, bringing in players that do all the organising and thinking for themselves on the pitch (like Bruno), if they want titles under Ole. That's the only way, and its going to be a frustrating road where the fanbase will tear itself apart and our club will become a laughing stock along the way.

At the end of the article it does say this:

Strong United backing for Solskjær does not mean unconditional support and results will continue to be monitored. After City, United play Sheffield United, Leeds, Everton (in a Carabao Cup quarter-final), Leicester and Wolves before the end of the year, and there is confidence the manager can embark on an impressive run.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

Tbf it's getting hard to tell. There's already a similar post to what you said in another thread

Only for the hard of thinking. I have been saying for ages we have the 3rd or 4th best team. I consider City to be number 2.

Nobody in the right mind would put Ole above Pep, jesus christ. It was meant as tongue in cheek.

 

[Greck]

Do those tweets feel like a knife in the chest to everyone else too? I predicted we wouldn't sack him no matter what, because of how it reflects on Woodward. But to actually hear it from the club makes me feel sick.

They better be prepared to spend hundreds of millions on this team, bringing in players that do all the organising and thinking for themselves on the pitch (like Bruno), if they want titles under Ole. That's the only way, and its going to be a frustrating road where the fanbase will tear itself apart and our club will become a laughing stock along the way.

You did it to yourself, many still haven't realised how hard it will be to sack him. Fergie, Gill, every ex-player and literally every one around Woodward will be showing solidarity for Ole's cause. He's deeply entrenched in the hearts of every influential person in the club. Woodward would have to burn so many bridges to sack him anytime before season's end. Secondly that press release could easily have been from Carrick or anyone. Thirdly it said we are expected to mount a title challenge, if it's true it's from the hierarchy then they have actually set unrealistic expectations for Ole to keep his job

 

[Dr. StrangeHate]

Why do people still think all Liverpool's bargain buys are down to Klopp? He even had to be convinced to take Salah. Liverpool's scouting is second to none.

Because on the face of it, it seems Liverpool scouting became second to none only after Klopp came. This perception is bolstered by the fact that Klopp got rid of most of the previous players that Liverpool scouting system identified. It just seems too much of a coincidence that Liverpool scouting became top notch as well same time as they got Klopp.

 

[Infra-red]

@Niall

Can, keep Ole until top 4 is unattainable be added to the poll?

This is probably the option Ed Woodward would vote for.

 

[Forevergiggs1]

This is probably the option Ed Woodward would vote for.

And probably about 30% of caf members

 

[Ali Dia]

You should look at the performances in detail.
If you think we are well drilled and look like were a team then youve got low standards.

The players are lost. Doesnt matter if they are world class level or league two level. They are not organised and they are poorly coached. Its obvious. Thats on the manager and support staff.
The quality of player at the club should be doing alot better

I just feel like there’s a trade off somewhere. Jose had a better team with zlatan but we didn’t play great football and it was often holding onto a one goal lead. Moment of magic from zlatan martial or miki in the EL. LVG boring. I don’t care if we had a good record against the better teams. It was soul destroying. Even SAF set up negatively a lot in Europe. I know he earned the right to do whatever he wanted but if you look at things over time I think this is still a team in transition. They are most likely being coached to a very high standard but we are still missing too many important pieces of the puzzle to kick on.Ole tries to play good football and work with what he can. He gives our younger players chances and support no matter how ropey their form gets. If we go for a pressing coach and rip everything up again then it’s another coin toss on how it will go and the grass isn’t always greener as we’ve seen now plenty of times. I like what Ole is building. We are scoring more goals. We are targeting young and exciting players again. There’s no drama apart from Pogba. I think we are getting closer

 

[Enigma_87]

Why do people still think all Liverpool's bargain buys are down to Klopp? He even had to be convinced to take Salah. Liverpool's scouting is second to none.

The most important thing is how a certain player will bode in and how he will develop under the manager in question. It's not only recognizing who to buy. Klopp's biggest asset is to develop those buys and integrate them into the squad.

 

[Tony247]

These roller coaster of seasons can be emotionally exhausting even for professional footballers. Every match is kind of make or break, under constat pressure of performance, chasing target that keep running away. This happens when there is no playing system and thus you can't predict outcome consistently. Liverpool on the other hand has established a system where even a new player can slot it. The system is ensuring consistent result against most of the opponents. What it be like for a player stepping on field knowing he can surely pull a win there? Players can play with pressure off and focus on their game.

A very good manager is a must for club like us who can set up an effective playing system. This cannot go on forever. Defenders all over the place, midfielders don't look they are in right position, strikers playing out of their position, this simply can't go on. Otherwise good players will come and go as they fail to consistently produce individual brilliance in a nonexistent system.

So called rebuild will never happen, will remain a mirage.

 

[AneRu]

I don't know who said this but it rings so true:

"United aren't a special club, we just have had two very special managers in our history."

There seems to be no footballing structure/philosophy or any long term vision at the club. We are just looking for that special manager again who runs the club from top to bottom. The unfortunate bit is that anyone close to being those special managers is already at our rivals (Pep and Klopp).

The saddest part is we have the resources to become the ultimate modern club like Chelsea or City:

1) Have an overarching philosophy (e.g. possession, counter-attacking, etc.)
2) The club buys players that fit that policy with minimal input from the manager.
3) Managers are there just to coach them.
4) This way the sack and hire cycle doesn't affect the long term vision.

I don't think there is any club remotely close to being termed a 'special club', Barcelona call themselves just that but they have managed to maneuver their club into a ditch.

The difference though is that they will dig themselves out quicker than us because they actually want to whilst those in charge at United are more concerned with how they would look if they admit messing up another big decision than solving the issue.

We, the fans are to blame too, because some of us don't want to think with their head. We have spent €300m but we are still vulnerable to the same issues that hurt us during Mourinho's last days. This isnt progress, it's exactly how an expensively assembled side would look under a clueless manager.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

If Klopp is so good why did he need to sign all those players, why couldn't he do it with the squad he inherited?

He can't turn shit into gold, but he can polish up some good players into truly superb or World class players. There's been plenty that people believed were top players until they left Klopp and everyone realised they weren't actually very good. Klopp's been doing it for over a decade now, not noticed?

The point is, saying "who would get into Liverpool's side" is daft, as Klopp doesn't ever bring ready made World class players in (Thiago the exception). There's no doubt a fair few players from United, Chelsea, Spurs, hell even Arsenal that'd he'd polish up beautifully, just as he has done with Robertson, Henderson, Mane, Wijnaldum, Van Dijk.

Half his outfield first team is made up from signings from Southampton (x2), Newcastle, Hull City and Wolves after all.

 

[TsuWave]

You guys really shouldn’t reply to/take seriously anyone that suggests City should sack Pep because he’s behind Ole on the table, and trying to use this as a way to defend/absolve Ole.

 

[keithsingleton]

I reckon we're 2 games away from this thread hitting 1000 pages. 1 game if we lose to City.

How many pages did the equivalent threads under Moyes, Van Gaal and Mourinho get? I reckon Mourinho's was the shortest because he crashed and burned so quickly.

it will 1000 today if they sack him today.

 

[OleBoiii]

it will 1000 today if they sack him today.

Yeah but they wont. Not even our club is that incompetent

 

[Ralph1386]

IMO Solskjaer is here until the end of the season, or at least until fourth is unattainable, which I hope it will never be.

I think that the club may have already sounded out the next manager, possibly Poch, telling him he will get the job next summer. A bit like they did with Mourinho before LVG left. They kept LVG until the summer and then announced Mourinho as soon as the season finished. After the CL fiasco, the only thing Ole can do to save his job is to finish first or second in the PL.

I still think that Woody needs to go before Ole, but we all know that is sadly not going to happen.

 

[keithsingleton]

Yeah but they wont. Not even our club is that incompetent

In that case let them be incompetent just this once. Sorry I have to say that but sadly the time has come.

 

[Bobcat]

Because on the face of it, it seems Liverpool scouting became second to none only after Klopp came. This perception is bolstered by the fact that Klopp got rid of most of the previous players that Liverpool scouting system identified. It just seems too much of a coincidence that Liverpool scouting became top notch as well same time as they got Klopp.

That's not entirely true though. They came very close to winning the league with Rodgers after Suarez single handedly carried them there and how much money did they earn on Coutinho? 70 million?

FSG are not perfect, but they are miles better than our fecking leeches and both Liverpool and The Red Sox have experienced a huge upturn in results under their ownership. I cant find the article, but i read a good piece somewhere about how FSG use sports science and analysts in their recruitment and scouting, and how it bears fruit down the line.

Maybe Pellestri and/or Diallo turn into world class players one day, but for our part its been a long time since we uncovered a hidden gem

 

[tomaldinho1]

I don't know who said this but it rings so true:

"United aren't a special club, we just have had two very special managers in our history."

There seems to be no footballing structure/philosophy or any long term vision at the club. We are just looking for that special manager again who runs the club from top to bottom. The unfortunate bit is that anyone close to being those special managers is already at our rivals (Pep and Klopp).

The saddest part is we have the resources to become the ultimate modern club like Chelsea or City:

1) Have an overarching philosophy (e.g. possession, counter-attacking, etc.)
2) The club buys players that fit that policy with minimal input from the manager.
3) Managers are there just to coach them.
4) This way the sack and hire cycle doesn't affect the long term vision.

You don't even need 1,2 or 4. Chelsea have hired such an array of managers with vastly different styles and won trophies under almost all of them. The absolute minimum requirement is hiring a good coach who can get a team playing their brand of football.

As much as we didn't enjoy their styles - we have hired two proven managers and both won trophies with us. The difference with us and Chelsea is we just threw in the towel and went with a former player whereas they will happily just move onto the next manager and ride the rollercoaster if they're a bit nuts, like Conte. The clubs are in similar situations now, albeit Chelsea have a lot more positivity around them due to results, with two former players at the helm but you can guarantee Lampard would be sacked as soon as Chelsea lost faith in him & his appointment was also a lot to do with the ban and him knowing the youth players.

United have this ridiculous attitude that's filtered down to the fans and is very evident on the caf that 'we are not a sacking club', a phrase which sounds like it must be good but, when you think about it, we're essentially saying we place value on stability over success. It breeds mediocrity and is precisely why Arsenal are where they are because they were emotionally tied to Wenger and left sacking him years too late.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

What qualities did Fergie have that made him the best manager for us? Excellent man management, tactically solid, ability to motivate the players on a consistent basis, ability to get average players to punch above their weight, ability to turn potential to world class, charisma and winning mentality

And what makes a good United manager? A large part of the CAF including the Ole inners will say that Klopp is the ideal United manager in the current day and why is that? Because Klopp has all the attributes I mentioned above that Ferguson has.

We all know what attributes a United manager should have just like we know that the likes of Grealish Bruno etc have the attributes of a United player. So does Ole have these attributes? If we were currently without a coach and needed one and placed Ole side by side with Nagelsman Pochettino Hassenhutl would you pick Ole and say he is the guy out of the other candidates that has the attributes of a United manager?

 

[Volumiza]

What qualities did Fergie have that made him the best manager for us? Excellent man management, tactically solid, ability to motivate the players on a consistent basis, ability to get average players to punch above their weight, ability to turn potential to world class, charisma and winning mentality

And what makes a good United manager? A large part of the CAF including the Ole inners will say that Klopp is the ideal United manager in the current day and why is that? Because Klopp has all the attributes I mentioned above that Ferguson has.

We all know what attributes a United manager should have just like we know that the likes of Grealish Bruno etc have the attributes of a United player. So does Ole have these attributes? If we were currently without a coach and needed one and placed Ole side by side with Nagelsman Pochettino Hassenhutl would you pick Ole and say he is the guy out of the other candidates that has the attributes of a United manager?

Nicely put and I agree with every letter, space, syllable and punctuation mark. And as for the bolded part. Of course not.

 

[Dr. StrangeHate]

That's not entirely true though. They came very close to winning the league with Rodgers after Suarez single handedly carried them there and how much money did they earn on Coutinho? 70 million?

FSG are not perfect, but they are miles better than our fecking leeches and both Liverpool and The Red Sox have experienced a huge upturn in results under their ownership. I cant find the article, but i read a good piece somewhere about how FSG use sports science and analysts in their recruitment and scouting, and how it bears fruit down the line.

Maybe Pellestri and/or Diallo turn into world class players one day, but for our part its been a long time since we uncovered a hidden gem

I can't say anything about FSG as don't know anything about them. Before Klopp no one would say Liverpool's scouting was anything special. And Klopp got rid of all the players after he came in anyway. How many of that Rogers team did Klopp use in his title. Klopp is making their scouting look good on the face of it. I don't know the inner workings at Liverpool scouting.

Is their scouting better than ours. I would say a Caf poll is better than our scouting.