Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

[90 + 5min]

Every day... Same posts, same posters, same RedCafe solutions.

Sad to see such hatred towards ManUtd, manager and his staff. From "own supporters". Reminds me little bit of sell Giggs, sack Fergie era.

 

[DJW]

Every day... Same posts, same posters, same RedCafe solutions.

Sad to see such hatred towards ManUtd, manager and his staff. From "own supporters". Reminds me little bit of sell Giggs, sack Fergie era.

Don’t hate him at all, he is one of my favourite ever players, however I just recognise that he will never ever be good enough.
You could give him 500 million and 10 seasons and we will still be in the almost run section. Just move him along and let a genuine competent manager take over ASAP!

 

[Di Maria's angel]

Every day... Same posts, same posters, same RedCafe solutions.

Sad to see such hatred towards ManUtd, manager and his staff. From "own supporters". Reminds me little bit of sell Giggs, sack Fergie era.

We may as well have just never sacked Moyes.

 

[Handsome Devil]

I'd like a poll on a different - and, in my opinion, much more pertinent - question:

"Why was Ole hired in the first place?"

And, no - this has nothing to do with PE teachers or the Norwegian league.

The exact same question could be asked with regard to all of Ole's predecessors. What was the thinking behind the appointment?

And - who do you think is going to make the call on the next appointment, as things stand?

Fair enough. What choices/alternatives would you list?

 

[Rightnr]

Every day... Same posts, same posters, same RedCafe solutions.

Sad to see such hatred towards ManUtd, manager and his staff. From "own supporters". Reminds me little bit of sell Giggs, sack Fergie era.

How much are Man Utd Plc paying you, mate? Because I hope they are, otherwise you are worse than Ed Deadwood.

 

[VP89]

This isn't solely on Ole of course but the stat is frightening - if we reach the Europa Cup final, we'd have played as many games in Europa league as we did in Champions League since Fergie retired.

 

[90 + 5min]

Don’t hate him at all, he is one of my favourite ever players, however I just recognise that he will never ever be good enough.
You could give him 500 million and 10 seasons and we will still be in the almost run section. Just move him along and let a genuine competent manager take over ASAP!

Well, grass is not always greener on the other side. If you could guarantee a manager coming in and giving us trophies I would listen. But fotball is more complex than that.

We may as well have just never sacked Moyes.

Difference is that with Moyes we did to many changes. Changes that didn't had to be done. Only manager I would have given more time is VanGaal. Unfortunately we didn't. Mourinho, as much as I like him, sacked himself with his comments and that he lost dressing room in his last season.

How much are Man Utd Plc paying you, mate? Because I hope they are, otherwise you are worse than Ed Deadwood.

Why should they pay me? We are making progress. Not as fast as some of you think we should be. Relax and have patience. You will get rewarded.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

Well, grass is not always greener on the other side. If you could guarantee a manager coming in and giving us trophies I would listen. But fotball is more complex than that.


Difference is that with Moyes we did to many changes. Changes that didn't had to be done. Only manager I would have given more time is VanGaal. Unfortunately we didn't. Mourinho, as much as I like him, sacked himself with his comments and that he lost dressing room in his last season.


Why should they pay me? We are making progress. Not as fast as some of you think we should be. Relax and be patience. You will get rewarded.

I feel so much calmer now

 

[UnitedSofa]

His eyes and face are moving all over the place like a child that is lying. He doesn't believe what he says.

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ahh the ol' redcafe body language experts

 

[Infestissumam]

I want the structure to change - I want United to make fundamental changes to how we operate as a football club.

I want us to have a long-term strategy with regard to player recruitment and playing style. And I want someone other than the manager to be ultimately responsible for that strategy.

I want the manager to have less influence over matters that have an impact beyond the current season and the present playing staff.

That isn't a "solution" - but in my opinion it's a necessary first step.

ETA And if your response is "well, that isn't happening on Woodward's watch", my answer is:

Alright, then - we're fecked until it's no longer Woodward's watch.

But I won't be yelling about the manager - my guess is that (as I replied to the poster above) the next one will be deemed "shitty" too soon enough once it becomes apparent that he isn't able to deliver the big prizes either.

I would agree with all of this, and I'm sure most fans would. Our problems go far deeper than the manager, and I also think that we need to drastically change the structure behind the scenes. For such a big and rich club, it's almost comical how bad our setup is in comparison to other clubs.

Unfortunately, I just don't think it's going to change as long as Woodward and the Glazers run things. How long have we been "looking" for a DoF now? Five years, give or take? It's simply not going to happen and I no longer naively hold my breath. The only thing that has changed (and will continue to change) is the manager, and while I'd agree that the grass isn't always greener, I've reached the point where I don't think Ole can take us any further. Crashing out of the CL group after winning the first two was unforgivable, and honestly, I don't see enough consistent progress to think that Ole can take us back to the top level. Would a change of structure be the most important thing? Absolutely. But, if that was not to happen, would appointing somebody like Pochettino be better than sticking with Ole? At this point, it's a clear yes from me.

Every day... Same posts, same posters, same RedCafe solutions.

Sad to see such hatred towards ManUtd, manager and his staff. From "own supporters". Reminds me little bit of sell Giggs, sack Fergie era.

if there's any manager that fans would have desperately wanted to succeed, it's Ole. He's a club legend and a favorite player of many us. Coming to the conclusion that we need somebody else has nothing to do with hatred.

 

[TheRedDevil2019]

I would agree with all of this, and I'm sure most fans would. Our problems go far deeper than the manager, and I also think that we need to drastically change the structure behind the scenes. For such a big and rich club, it's almost comical how bad our setup is in comparison to other clubs.

Unfortunately, I just don't think it's going to change as long as Woodward and the Glazers run things. How long have we been "looking" for a DoF now? Five years, give or take? It's simply not going to happen and I no longer naively hold my breath. The only thing that has changed (and will continue to change) is the manager, and while I'd agree that the grass isn't always greener, I've reached the point where I don't think Ole can take us any further. Crashing out of the CL group after winning the first two was unforgivable, and honestly, I don't see enough consistent progress to think that Ole can take us back to the top level. Would a change of structure be the most important thing? Absolutely. But, if that was not to happen, would appointing somebody like Pochettino be better than sticking with Ole? At this point, it's a clear yes from me.


if there's any manager that fans would have desperately wanted to succeed, it's Ole. He's a club legend and a favorite player of many us. Coming to the conclusion that we need somebody else has nothing to do with hatred.

Lies, you all hate a club legend who has a higher win ratio than that of 2 out of the three previous managers. Inconsistency is obviously going to occur at times when we are fielding teenagers like Williams and Greenwood and have one of the younger sides in the league.

It's a rebuild but many on here don't seem to grasp it. How pathetic.

 

[Kajus]

His eyes and face are moving all over the place like a child that is lying. He doesn't believe what he says.

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feck me, the state of you Have you actually run out of things to be critical about?

 

[Infestissumam]

Lies, you all hate a club legend who has a higher win ratio than that of 2 out of the three previous managers. Inconsistency is obviously going to occur at times when we are fielding teenagers like Williams and Greenwood and have one of the younger sides in the league.

It's a rebuild but many on here don't seem to grasp it. How pathetic.

nah, what really is pathetic is accusing fans of "hating" the manager because they simply feel it's time for change. And I've actually been in Oles corner for a long time.

 

[Rightnr]

I am straight done with the top reds supporting OGS.

I don't care if they're offended because what offends me is watching us play in the bloody EL.

All this shite about progress is pure delusion. We have no progress based on results AND we have no progress based on style. We will be losing Pogba, who love him or hate him, is one of our few genuine world-class players. Other mediocre overrated players like Maguire and McTominay are a shoe-in to start because of pashun nonsense and because they're 'nice 'lads'. Maguire, especially, exemplifies the tolerance of English mediocrity at our club and you just know he'll keep being crap and still start with that armband (puke-worthy).

Our board refuses to invest and our manager cannot even get the best out of our good players due to pure lack of management ability. We're on a downward slope to mediocrity and will be known as the Liverpool of the 2010s or even the 2020s, unless we improve at least the manager side.

 

[90 + 5min]

I am straight done with the top reds supporting OGS.

I don't care if they're offended because what offends me is watching us play in the bloody EL.

All this shite about progress is pure delusion. We have no progress based on results AND we have no progress based on style. We will be losing Pogba, who love him or hate him, is one of our few genuine world-class players.

Our board refuses to invest and our manager cannot even get the best out of our good players due to pure lack of management ability. We're on a downward slope to mediocrity and will be known as the Liverpool of the 2010s or even the 2020s.

You are wrong, wich is based on facts.

Why should I get offended by playing in Europa League? Makes no sense. But people are to emotional and offended by everyhting these days so I guess it is something new in the society.

I couldn't care less about Paul Pogba being here or not. When he can't say to his agent to stop talking or break with him, then he doesn't care for ManUtd.

 

[Andycoleno9]

If he wasn't good enough for Cardiff how can he be good enough for us?

He wasn't all that good at Molde either.
He won back-to-back league titles in 2011 and 2012 during his first spell with Molde then left to take charge of Cardiff in January 2014
and got them relegated the from the Premier League, he lasted just eight months before being sacked. Molde, meanwhile, won a league title without him.
He returned to Molde in October 2015, but only managed to guide his side to sixth and two second-placed finishes before leaving again for England

That is his 10 year career as a football manager. And some fans think we should give him more time.

Those fans think like this;
He took over Molde. He created title winning team and left. Next manager won title only because Ole created the team. But when he came back, team was in bad shape and he needed 5,6 years to create another so that is why he failed in second spell.
In Cardiff he had awful team and not enough time. Not his fault.

 

[Majima]

I'd like a poll on a different - and, in my opinion, much more pertinent - question:

"Why was Ole hired in the first place?"

The exact same question could be asked with regard to all of Ole's predecessors. What was the thinking behind the appointment?

And - who do you think is going to make the call on the next appointment, as things stand?

I believe there was no long-term thinking behind Ole's permanent appointment. Remember at the time he was caretaker, they said they would be conducting a thorough hiring process for the next manager to be appointed in the summer. Even Ole said at the beginning that he was planning to leave in the summer.

Ole: "My job is for the next five months, because I’m going to leave them to someone else when they come in. That’s the plan and that’s what my job is at the moment, it runs out at the end of May - actually the end of June but we don’t play many games in June. My job is to affect the players on what it is all about at Manchester United''.

But we never actually saw any signs of this process did we? When he was made permanent manager on 28th March 2019, a few weeks after that PSG win, it was off the back of two consecutive defeats (Arsenal & Wolves in FA Cup). Isn't that very strange? What was the mad rush to appoint him?

If we was supposed to be interviewing other managers in this period, why wouldn't we continue to wait until the end of the season, especially when we're seeing the first signs of the wheels falling off? I don't think people remember just how bad Ole was after he was made permanent. We played 10 matches, winning just 2, drawing 2, and losing 6 with a 2-0 home loss to relegated Cardiff on the last day.

The only answer I can come up with, is that on his initial run, the club saw a chance to take a cheap punt on him, because he came with benefits. As a manager who was indebted to the board for even choosing him to begin with, after Mourinho, they knew he would never ask for much, or make them look bad in public. He would let them renew players like Jones, Young, Smalling (all signing on Ole's watch) to 'preserve their value', instead of demanding reinforcements. And most important, as a former legend, he would serve as a lightning rod for fan's discontent toward the board.

 

[Andycoleno9]

Watching his press conferences. He is staying until the end of the season for sure. I think that he has full backing by the board. That is why he is that confident when he is talking about "progress" and future

 

[Andycoleno9]

Ah so thats when the count starts.

I am also confused in that .
So far we have 5 or 6 timelines. Some count from august 2019 when he got his first "pre-season", some count with Bruno arrival, some use 1.1.2020. Then, this season is also questionable. Do we even count game against Palace? Fitness and all that...
I am waiting what is next. Maybe when we sign Sancho it will be day one of Ole era. Or when all 25 players will be players who he bought. I don't know....

 

[SteveW]

So why aren't we top of the table? It's almost like there are other factors at play here

They had a 1 week preseason. Other teams had 3-4 weeks. That meant they started the season badly until their fitness caught up.

They've won their last 4 league games though and started to move up the table.

I expect that to continue. They've proven over 24 games that they are good enough. They're not going to suddenly stop performing after doing well for several months.

Maintain the league form of 2020 with Greenwood, VDB, Cavani and Martials form likely to improve I expect around 85 points this season.

 

[JohnnyKills]

Dropping out of the top positions is more likely to happen in England than anywhere else. The genuine top clubs (in terms of resources) elsewhere could almost literally hire a clown to manage the team - and still finish in the top four.

That said, I agree with your basic point (as I take it): United should be able to change managers without having to overhaul the squad every time. Absolutely - yeah.

But we all know what that means. We need a new structure. We can't keep looking for a manager capable of doing what SAF did (which really is the only way our current "model" would possibly work).

Those who want to sack Ole NOW - here and now - and replace him, directly, with Nagelsmann should probably think about that once or twice more. Sacking Ole at the present time would make the United job more of a poisoned chalice than ever (it keeps going from depth to depth).

Not implausibly, the players would be against it (no indication beyond known BS sources that Ole has lost the players) - for one thing. So, yeah - let's hire a manager who's younger than Cavani - and has worked with a DOF all his career - to take the Titanic's helm and expect him to do well...because he "knows tactics". Sure - good luck with that.

Good post.

Can't see anything changing until the Glazers leave.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

Those fans think like this;
He took over Molde. He created title winning team and left. Next manager won title only because Ole created the team. But when he came back, team was in bad shape and he needed 5,6 years to create another so that is why he failed in second spell.
In Cardiff he had awful team and not enough time. Not his fault.

Sounds like more excuses to me. Same excuses he's getting here. Molde won the title without him, he returned to Molde and could win the title despite attempting for 3 years.

 

[giggs-beckham]

I know its a shit question but would Molde take him back now?

 

[PoTMS]

Just a friendly reminder his biggest achievement at United was getting 66 points and finishing in the Champions League spots only to get dumped out at the first hurdle straight back into the Europa League where we belong.

 

[VP89]

Just a friendly reminder his biggest achievement at United was getting 66 points and finishing in the Champions League spots only to get dumped out at the first hurdle straight back into the Europa League where we belong.

But he got 3rd and had a very good 2020, is the counter argument I would expect.

 

[Cloud7]

Watching his press conferences. He is staying until the end of the season for sure. I think that he has full backing by the board. That is why he is that confident when he is talking about "progress" and future

Our board deserve failure. Our fans deserve better, but our board truly deserve nothing but failure.

 

[Leftback99]

Nearly 1000 pages in and people are still repeating tired old Molde and Cardiff stuff. Groundhog day.

 

[Forevergiggs1]

I know its a shit question but would Molde take him back now?

Not likely in the next few years. . Current champions and even though it might of been in the heat of the moment Ole was told in no uncertain terms not to come back by the owners.

 

[edcunited1878]

Just a friendly reminder his biggest achievement at United was getting 66 points and finishing in the Champions League spots only to get dumped out at the first hurdle straight back into the Europa League where we belong.

Well he's only had one full season as manager after changing half of his backline and going with a front line spearheaded by Martial and Rashford. Then Bruno has played for 10 months at the club (maybe). What else can the guy actually accomplish in one year and 20 odd games as manager?

 

[Foxbatt]

Well he's only had one full season as manager after changing half of his backline and going with a front line spearheaded by Martial and Rashford. Then Bruno has played for 10 months at the club (maybe). What else can the guy actually accomplish in one year and 20 odd games as manager?

Get us to the top of the league as some managers are doing?

 

[90 + 5min]

Well he's only had one full season as manager after changing half of his backline and going with a front line spearheaded by Martial and Rashford. Then Bruno has played for 10 months at the club (maybe). What else can the guy actually accomplish in one year and 20 odd games as manager?

Winning Ultimate Supergalactic League with only wins, 1546 goals for and 0 against. Unless that is achived, lets sack manager every 2 months.

Get us to the top of the league as some managers are doing?

Like who?

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Well he's only had one full season as manager after changing half of his backline and going with a front line spearheaded by Martial and Rashford. Then Bruno has played for 10 months at the club (maybe). What else can the guy actually accomplish in one year and 20 odd games as manager?

Ask Nagelsmann, who’s spent a fraction Ole has, and in less time taken them from getting embarrassed in the EL groups by Celtic and Salzburg, to getting in the CL semi final and making the Manchester United happy that his side can even compete on their level.

Didn’t Jose take that dogshit LVG side that made watching paint dry look like fun, to 2 trophies in one season as manager?

 

[dove]

Didn’t Jose take that dogshit LVG side that made watching paint dry look like fun, to 2 trophies in one season as manager?

That was just an abnormality. Everyone and their dog knows that you need at least 5 years and £500m to even think about challenging for trophies.

 

[edcunited1878]

Get us to the top of the league as some managers are doing?

Name such managers....United already had one of them, but that manager walked into a better team with two of the best players in the league.

 

[Foxbatt]

Winning Ultimate Supergalactic League with only wins, 1546 goals for and 0 against. Unless that is achived, lets sack manager every 2 months.


Like who?

There are other managers who have had a season and half. Less than Ole himself yet he is currently on top of the PL.

 

[Foxbatt]

Name such managers....United already had one of them, but that manager walked into a better team with two of the best players in the league.

yes the man who was so terrible last season that people were talking about Rashford being better. No one gave Son a chance. He made them better. Bruno Fernandes is probably the best player in the league right now and he plays for Manchester United. He has been the best since he came to the PL. Take him out and we won't be even in 6th place. We would be in the bottom half.

 

[edcunited1878]

Ask Nagelsmann, who’s spent a fraction Ole has, and in less time taken them from getting embarrassed in the EL groups by Celtic and Salzburg, to getting in the CL semi final and making the Manchester United happy that his side can even compete on their level.

Didn’t Jose take that dogshit LVG side that made watching paint dry look like fun, to 2 trophies in one season as manager?

Nagelsmann is a very smart manager, no doubt. His arrogance helps too, cool. But his success has also been determined by the Red Bull group and most notably Ralf Rangnick. And spending the most doesn't mean anything. Identifying, recruiting, and signing good players who fit your overall style isn't just down to the manager, especially at New York Red Bull, RB Salzberg, and RB Leipzig. It's a pipeline where if/when the right manager comes along then leaves, they'll be competitive. United don't have that structure or baseline continuity.

LVG's side also won a major trophy. Jose did win 2 trophies for sure and for most of the season, he had a top class center forward banging the goals with an engaged Pogba. He improved the results and team for the most part his first two years. Right now, the only difference between Ole and Jose is that Ole hasn't won anything...that could change, but we don't know.

 

[Cathy Ferguson]

The game against Leipzig was our most important one since Leicester away. If we kept a clean sheet we would have qualified. Yet we are a complete shambles for the start of the game and are 2-0 down after 14 min, letting in identical and simple goals as we did against Sevilla, Brighton and Spurs. Only a clueless manager could achieve that. Any manager worth his salt would make sure that the defence and the tactics are spot on from start of the game. That is a sackable offence.

I would sack Ole before the Watford game unless we are a only a few points behind the leaders and our general style of play and defending have improved considerably. But Ole is not a top coach, that was obvious on Tuseday night 90s into the game. He can't organize a defence.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Right now, the only difference between Ole and Jose is that Ole hasn't won anything...

Brilliant.

It’s the only difference between Ole and Fergie too in fairness.

 

[edcunited1878]

There are other managers who have had a season and half. Less than Ole himself yet he is currently on top of the PL.

That's cool and all, but I would rather have a lead for the final 5 minutes of a match through the final whistle than having the lead for 85 minutes and nothing to show for. Good for Spurs they are top of the league, for now.

But Poch took Spurs as far as he could across 3/4 years and they gave Jose a very good foundation, a better foundation than the one Ole inherited. The Spurs team is such a great fit for Jose isn't not even funny.